Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: daveb on July 23, 2004, 09:41:44 pm

Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: daveb on July 23, 2004, 09:41:44 pm
While I'm cruising around, I figured I'd drop in and say hi to the source code peeps.

Just wanted to say - I'm totally blown away by the stuff you guys are doing. You guys have gone absolutely bonkers with this stuff.  Never in my wildest dreams did I think the source would be this useful.  I'm also glad that as far as I can tell, no one has been permanently scarred from exposure to it  :)

Particularly neat is the whole Linux thing. I know I was down on it at the onset, but you guys have really kicked ass. Shows what the hell I know :)

No doubt, Freespace will live on for a heckuva lot longer because of your efforts.

So, now I'll go ahead and register my own personal fanboy request : Man oh man would I love to see real stencil shadows from big ships. That's one uber-dramatic element FS2 never really had - the proper LOOMING presence of the big guys reflected in the lighting on the little guys.

Anyways - rock on!
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Taristin on July 23, 2004, 09:48:03 pm
Yes! That'd rock! It'd be awesome!
Now tell them how to do it first... :p
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: mrduckman on July 23, 2004, 09:53:04 pm
You've access to the code. Do it yourself! :lol:
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 23, 2004, 09:53:50 pm
Whoa, It's daveb!!!

Wish I wasn't such a newb :p
hello there ;)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Aspa on July 23, 2004, 10:02:19 pm
Shadows would be awesome yes...

Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Black Wolf on July 23, 2004, 11:05:49 pm
Stencilled Shadows?

:nervous:
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Kazan on July 23, 2004, 11:10:24 pm
hahahahaha Blackwolf!

Thanks dave!
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Bobboau on July 23, 2004, 11:13:54 pm
sticks and RT called dibs on this, but if they don't jump on it I guess I could give it a shot
you know dave, you have access to the internal forum :)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Thorn on July 23, 2004, 11:15:35 pm
What would be really cool is volumetric light/shadows.. but thats probably asking a bit much......
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on July 24, 2004, 04:45:07 am
Or liek geomod omgwtflol!!!!111one


Ahem.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Bobboau on July 24, 2004, 05:01:00 am
:D
hey, yeah, why don't you explain that whole geomod thing, I doubt anyone would mind :lol:
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Fineus on July 24, 2004, 05:17:56 am
Oh hey cool, can we have geomod now?

What? Why are you all looking at me like that? ;)

Seriously though - nice to see you here Dave, and you're right - they've done good!
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Gloriano on July 24, 2004, 05:57:19 am
Quote
So, now I'll go ahead and register my own personal fanboy request : Man oh man would I love to see real stencil shadows from big ships. That's one uber-dramatic element FS2 never really had - the proper LOOMING presence of the big guys reflected in the lighting on the little guys.


Indeed that would Rock!:)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Silent Warrior on July 24, 2004, 06:02:40 am
DaveB: *AGREED.* Now, go make us a FS3! :p
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Bobboau on July 24, 2004, 07:13:04 am
alright, I'm on it, I've got what seems to be a working silhouette ruteen going, it gets a little flakey when things are at a sharp angle to the light source in question, but I think it will work.
the geometry from the shadow volume could also be used in nebula missions... ;7
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Inquisitor on July 24, 2004, 07:24:26 am
"That's what you get for missing staff meetings, Doctor"

Glad you approve. These guys work pretty hard on this stuff. It means alot that you posted this.

Thanks :)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: kasperl on July 24, 2004, 07:59:13 am
Bob: FPS hit?
Title: Re: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Nico on July 24, 2004, 08:17:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by daveb
While
 [poumpoumpoum]
Anyways - rock on!


Glad to see you around :)
From that request, I gather you liked the first appearance of the SSD in the Empire Strikes Back too, mmh? :D
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Sigma957 on July 24, 2004, 08:25:55 am
That would be awesome seeing shadow from capital ships :yes:
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 09:34:26 am
Its has the "OMFG ITS A CAPSHIP! ITS TEH COLOSSUS OH NOES!" feeling to it.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: aldo_14 on July 24, 2004, 11:04:14 am
Independence Day........
(http://www.fantascienza.com/cinema/independence-day/media/11.jpg)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Falcon on July 24, 2004, 11:12:06 am
I can see my house from here! :)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 01:03:31 pm
IT WILL FEEL JUST LIKE THAT! OMGWTFBBQ!
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: vyper on July 24, 2004, 01:59:25 pm
[q]OMGWTFBBQ![/q]

Oh yer a tard but that's funny... :lol:

Anyway, I like the idea of some nice stencil shadows. Would be cool to see a big Sathanas shape shadow fall over the colossus or whatnot.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 02:01:44 pm
My "tard" attitude makes others laugh. :nod:
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Inquisitor on July 24, 2004, 02:04:00 pm
On topic please.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: SadisticSid on July 24, 2004, 04:04:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by daveb
...
No doubt, Freespace will live on for a heckuva lot longer because of your efforts.


Hell yeah :D

Certainly I don't think I'd be as enthusiastic about modding Inferno if the guys hadn't upgraded FS2 so much. The addition of new features and engine enhancements coming into play when you see your ships kicking the hell out of each other during your missions is great.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: CP5670 on July 24, 2004, 04:17:11 pm
yeah they have really done an amazing job with this; I doubt I would still be playing and modding this game if the SCP wasn't around.

I think the shadow effect is likely to get top priority since it's coming from dave. :D
Title: Re: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Carl on July 24, 2004, 04:35:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by daveb
Just wanted to say - I'm totally blown away by the stuff you guys are doing. You guys have gone absolutely bonkers with this stuff.  Never in my wildest dreams did I think the source would be this useful.  I'm also glad that as far as I can tell, no one has been permanently scarred from exposure to it  :)

Particularly neat is the whole Linux thing. I know I was down on it at the onset, but you guys have really kicked ass. Shows what the hell I know :)

No doubt, Freespace will live on for a heckuva lot longer because of your efforts.


Wow. Praise from Caesar.
Title: Re: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Krackers87 on July 24, 2004, 04:45:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by daveb

So, now I'll go ahead and register my own personal fanboy request : Man oh man would I love to see real stencil shadows from big ships. That's one uber-dramatic element FS2 never really had - the proper LOOMING presence of the big guys reflected in the lighting on the little guys.

Anyways - rock on!



http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,16929.0.html

*Jumps up and down franticly pointing at his post*

I even explained exactly how they could be implemented, with several variations.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Bobboau on July 24, 2004, 05:58:41 pm
well I'm halfway there, it could be a bit more effichent, but it isn't as bad as the screen sudjests, we all know what takeing screen shots does to the frame rate, also ignore that screwy planet in the background.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Thorn on July 24, 2004, 06:01:18 pm
Will it be possible to soften/resize the shadows with distance, or will they be the same at any range?
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Knight Templar on July 24, 2004, 06:37:51 pm
Oh, very good idea indeed. Nice to see you around Dave :yes:
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Flipside on July 24, 2004, 06:51:18 pm
I think cone shadows are a bit harder to do, though increasing the transparency of the shadow with distance from the source would be cool ;)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Bobboau on July 24, 2004, 07:56:37 pm
soft shadows are imposable with the stencel techniqe.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Flipside on July 24, 2004, 08:08:09 pm
Ah... I see... actually, thinking about it, Shadows only go in a cone if the light source is smaller than the object which is throwing the shadow iirc?
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Kazan on July 24, 2004, 08:10:05 pm
shadows go in a cone if the source and the caster are two different sizes

if caster > source then cone(x) < cone(x+1)
if caster < source then cone(x) > cone(x+1)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Flipside on July 24, 2004, 08:20:04 pm
Thought so. :)

Will only LOD0 be using this? Some of those lower lods might cast some really wierd shadows?
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 24, 2004, 11:22:38 pm
This may be what you were discussing regarding "soft shadows", but is that refuring to the UMBRA, PENUMBRA effect?  Since the "sun" in a mission isn't a point-source light, then it will cast a dark shadow that's smaller than the object casting it, with a lighter shadow around it, which is much larger than the object casting it.  The farther away from the object, the smaller the dark shadow is, and the larger the grey shadow is.

On another note, will shadows be feasable in a nebular environment, where gas behind an object (in relation to the sun) is not illuminated?

Later!
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 25, 2004, 02:35:01 am
I was just browsing through the code tour the other day, looking to see what we'd implemented and what we'd missed. There was one thing that stuck out in particular...the half-finished demo recording system.


//runs
//Comes back to give a thumbs-up to Bobboau on his stencil-shadows work
//runs ;)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Flaser on July 25, 2004, 09:43:04 am
If overexporure was implemented, couldn't it be used to blur shadows - after all the stenciled shapes could be handled as 'negative' glow map?

BTW with the distance at which stars are most of the time in FS the light rays can be treated as if they were parallel to the vector of your position relative to the star.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Nuke on July 25, 2004, 04:33:01 pm
impressive :D
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Bobboau on July 26, 2004, 02:18:01 am
ok some implementation notes,

this will only be implemented for directional lights (ie stars)

I'm going to use the dot-failed polygons to close the shadow volume on the occluder side,

all shadows in for a light are going to all go twards the same point way the hell of in the distance in the direction that the light is traveling at (but within the clipping space)

I'm going to be useing the Depth-fail method, becose the way things are set up I will never have to worry about far clipping of the volume, and capping should be simple (and we will likely be spending great amounts of time inside the shadows of cap ships)

I'm thinking that some sort of subtractive lighting might need to be used to get this to work well with multable lights and without reewriteing the entier rendering sequence. (would rendering the ship with the light in question andD3DBLENDOP_SUBTRACT work here?)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Col. Fishguts on July 26, 2004, 02:53:05 am
Wow...DaveB is back....AND Bob's working on stencil shadows...that's one interesting thread.

@Bob: Does this method cast shadows on other ships only, or on the shadow casting ship itself too ?
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Bobboau on July 26, 2004, 03:04:32 am
I think it can get both
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Tiara on July 26, 2004, 03:06:27 am
Ooooowww... :D
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Ace on July 26, 2004, 05:07:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
If overexporure was implemented, couldn't it be used to blur shadows - after all the stenciled shapes could be handled as 'negative' glow map?


I was just thinking that myself. It'd involve having a "glow map" on the geometry generated by the stenciling, but I think it would be possible.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Flipside on July 26, 2004, 05:11:00 am
Or maybe reduce the shadow opacity depending on the LOD, so it's like 80%, 60, 40, 20 and 0 for any Lod 4+ models?

Just a thought :)

Edit : On second thought, I get the feeling that for the sake of speed, the routine would just check for 'polygons' and wouldn't do anything to identify who's polygons?
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Setekh on July 26, 2004, 05:19:30 am
This thread is just so cool, in so many ways. :)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Inquisitor on July 26, 2004, 07:48:23 am
oh yeah :)

I wish dave say hello more often :)
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Carl on July 26, 2004, 03:03:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
If overexporure was implemented, couldn't it be used to blur shadows - after all the stenciled shapes could be handled as 'negative' glow map?


i really doubt it, as bob would have to impliment multiply blending, where RGB 0, 0, 0 is 100% opaque. currently FS only uses addition blending, where RGB 255, 255, 255 is 100% opaque.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Goober5000 on July 29, 2004, 07:31:23 am
New thread for the shadow stuff:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25761.0.html
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: RandomTiger on March 20, 2005, 07:30:39 am
Quote

Checking in : Impressed!
While I'm cruising around, I figured I'd drop in and say hi to the source code peeps.

Just wanted to say - I'm totally blown away by the stuff you guys are doing. You guys have gone absolutely bonkers with this stuff. Never in my wildest dreams did I think the source would be this useful. I'm also glad that as far as I can tell, no one has been permanently scarred from exposure to it

Particularly neat is the whole Linux thing. I know I was down on it at the onset, but you guys have really kicked ass. Shows what the hell I know

No doubt, Freespace will live on for a heckuva lot longer because of your efforts.

So, now I'll go ahead and register my own personal fanboy request : Man oh man would I love to see real stencil shadows from big ships. That's one uber-dramatic element FS2 never really had - the proper LOOMING presence of the big guys reflected in the lighting on the little guys.

Anyways - rock on!


Wow, I've only just seen this.

Its great to get this kind of feedback of Daveb.
It is actually very impressive what we have managed to get done.
I forget that sometimes.
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: Flipside on March 24, 2005, 02:03:20 pm
Well, you all deserve to remember it :)

Yeah, it's a pity we don't see DaveB more often, but seeing this again felt good :D
Title: Checking in : Impressed!
Post by: castor on March 24, 2005, 04:30:14 pm
Yep.
Looking back a couple of years, I think FS has gone beyond all expectations, thanx to SCP crew *hat off *
What's most important, instead of the atmosphere of desperation theres the atmosphere of hope :) :yes:

Edit: some typoeessss