Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Fear on July 24, 2004, 12:38:09 pm

Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on July 24, 2004, 12:38:09 pm
will this happen anytime soon? i dont know if it relats but what the heck
"Launcher 6 is being build with D3D9 support."

+
anybody know when will shinemap will be fix for radeon users?
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: ChronoReverse on July 24, 2004, 12:39:51 pm
Whenever ATi fixes their drivers.  For now, revert back to an older set of Cats.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: kasperl on July 24, 2004, 12:40:49 pm
Sure, you can use DX9, since DX is always backwards compatible. For now, no-one is using a DX9 function, so it is not needed.

As for the shinemap fix, not sure, it is a pure driver issue, the SCP guys can't help it.

Out of couriosity, what is your native language?
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on July 24, 2004, 12:46:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Whenever ATi fixes their drivers.  For now, revert back to an older set of Cats.

wont it damage my system? but heck for fs2 everything...
Quote


Sure, you can use DX9, since DX is always backwards compatible. For now, no-one is using a DX9 function, so it is not needed.

As for the shinemap fix, not sure, it is a pure driver issue, the SCP guys can't help it.

Out of couriosity, what is your native language?
[/B]



my primary lang is hebrew.
and it will be awesome to see some of dx9 future in fs2. though i can't think about any use for pixel shaders .... but still.... awesome!
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 12:50:13 pm
wait, there is a problem with Radeon cards running the shinemaps? I never noticed one...
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on July 24, 2004, 12:50:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
wait, there is a problem with Radeon cards running the shinemaps? I never noticed one...

this is the problem i never noticed any shine on my ships.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 12:58:13 pm
hm... I never had that problem. Must be a Radeon 9500 exclusive... ;7
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Kamuii on July 24, 2004, 01:01:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
hm... I never had that problem. Must be a Radeon 9500 exclusive... ;7


What version of the Catalyst drivers are you running?
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 01:02:29 pm
Whichever the latest drivers from the Radeon site are. Im running them on my Radeon 9600Xt. I have always had shinemaps.:nod:
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on July 24, 2004, 01:04:43 pm
can you give me a picture of the amazing shine? i want to see if its on my system 2(im not sure...)
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 01:07:15 pm
Here's a shot of my uber-shine.

http://swooh.com/peon/tincan/freespace2/screen2.jpg
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: kasperl on July 24, 2004, 01:08:12 pm
Radeon 9000 and Radeon 7000 reported issues as well. Not too sure about the 9200.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 01:09:07 pm
So, I guess the latest cards have the problem fixed.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Sandwich on July 24, 2004, 01:09:30 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Fear
my primary lang is hebrew.


Yofi! Od Yisraeli lehosif lachavora! ;)

:welcome:
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 24, 2004, 01:10:23 pm
God damnit I cant understand it! >_<
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: vyper on July 24, 2004, 02:05:20 pm
[q]God damnit I cant understand it! >_<[/q]
Few people around here can... hey did you just call me an asshole?!
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on July 24, 2004, 02:54:28 pm
ma kora gever?

AND about that picture! holy **** of mother israel! ITS AMAZING! i got no shine at all!!!! :( .
if i will install 4.4 it will work fine?
and by the way where can i find the shinemap v1.1C? i installed the V2.0 but i was informed its Shine only for bombers....
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Scuddie on July 24, 2004, 03:11:22 pm
Did you use -spec in the launcher?  It will not shine unless specular lighting is enabled.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: CP5670 on July 24, 2004, 03:17:17 pm
How about the X800 cards on the 4.7 drivers? Does anyone here have one? I'm still in two minds whether to get a 6800 GT or spend a bit more and get an X800 XTPE. At least I have some time to think about it while they all become more readily available.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: karajorma on July 24, 2004, 03:18:41 pm
There's an option in Launcher 5.x called Enable Specular. Make sure that is ticked.

As for the Catalyst drivers I've heard from others that going back to an earlier catalyst will bring back shine mapping. What I can't be sure of is which catalyst version. I think 4.3 or 4.4 is correct though.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Sandwich on July 24, 2004, 04:58:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Fear
ma kora gever?


I'm always interested in finding out about Israeli FS2ers, considering that FS2 was - AFAIK - never released here. How'd you come across it/us? ;)
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 24, 2004, 05:45:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Whichever the latest drivers from the Radeon site are. Im running them on my Radeon 9600Xt. I have always had shinemaps.:nod:


What's your OS?  If you're using Win98, then that's the reason you've still got shine.  ATI doesn't make any Cat drivers for 98 newer than v4.2, so if you're in that boat, you pretty much won't have to worry about losing shine.

Later!
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Bri_Dog on July 24, 2004, 07:38:08 pm
What kind of stuff would DX9 let us do?
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Flipside on July 24, 2004, 08:10:00 pm
The main one is shading on a per-pixel basis instead of a per-vertex one, though there are other advantages as well :)
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: vyper on July 24, 2004, 08:32:27 pm
On a side note (to avoid a whole new thread) do we have support for ani's as background images yet?

If not, I wish to know before wasting several hours of my life.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Bobboau on July 24, 2004, 08:59:47 pm
yeah, there in there
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: ChronoReverse on July 24, 2004, 10:00:11 pm
Pixel shaders are in DX8 as well.  DX9 gives us Shaders 2.0 which are, in general, nicer than the 1.4/1.1 shaders.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 25, 2004, 02:31:52 am
If it doesn't break support with 'older' cards that can still run the SCP at decent framerates with decent effects. (ie GeForce4 MX440)

I don't think we've even fully utilized DX8 or HT&L yet though.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: FireCrack on July 25, 2004, 03:46:05 am
I wesh we had HDR+Light blooming (by the way, how are those two related, does HDR allow calculations precise enough for blooming?)
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on July 25, 2004, 06:06:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


I'm always interested in finding out about Israeli FS2ers, considering that FS2 was - AFAIK - never released here. How'd you come across it/us? ;)


I think u are wrong. FS1 shipped to israel though no 1 bought it.... i found it for 50 nis in the year 2000. after i finished it i convinced my parents to go look FS2.

FS1 was the best game i have ever played, when i played FS2 i felt like it was better than fs1. after alittle bit of searching i found out that FS3 wont going to be released. but a good side came out of it ... i found this fourm ;)
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Sandwich on July 27, 2004, 03:19:32 am
I know FS1 came here - that's how I got it - but I never saw FS2.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Viper1000 on July 27, 2004, 04:14:38 am
This is in response to ATI users.  Catalyst 4.5, 4.6, and 4.7 all have broken shinemapping for me.  I'm using a 9800XT.  Catalyst 4.4 does not break shinemapping for me.:yes:
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on July 27, 2004, 07:32:30 am
Yea i moved back to 4.4 now shine work..
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 27, 2004, 11:51:02 pm
While we're on the subject, some Beta Cat drivers listed as 4.8 are available, though if you read the descriptions on the site they say that they are not released as Beta 4.8, but as an upgraded Beta of 4.7.  In any case here (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=836) are the drivers for your testing pleasure... do so at your own risk.

Later!
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Kosh on July 28, 2004, 12:08:36 am
Quote
Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Whenever ATi fixes their drivers.  For now, revert back to an older set of Cats.



Or until someone around here hacks it.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: ChronoReverse on July 28, 2004, 12:08:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by FireCrack
I wesh we had HDR+Light blooming (by the way, how are those two related, does HDR allow calculations precise enough for blooming?)


It doesn't.  I don't really know why people keep associating HDR with the glow blooms.

HDR == ultra-realistic lighting

Blooming == slap a shader on top of a glow or some kind of blending
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on August 04, 2004, 12:16:04 am
Another pointless bump, but this is the best place I can see to post this.  This is not for the faint of heart, n'or the unskilled driver jockey, but for the adventurous owners of ATI cards that seek better OGL performance.  ATI has released some very, very, BETA Cat drivers, labelled at 4.9.  Some documentation I've read indicates that these aren't even scheduled for release until September, but that the official 4.8s should be out soon.  These drivers are part of a project to improve the Radeon family's OGL performance, with DOOM-3 in mind... therefore, their BETA BETA release is timed to co-incide with that game's release this past weekend.  They may improve FSO's OGL performance for ATI users, or they may turn your PC into a molten paperweight ( :rolleyes: ), either way I thought I'd post this for those who have the courage.

http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4547.html

Later!
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 04, 2004, 07:06:15 am
4.9 was design to improve the X800 fps in doom3. beside every card below pro 9800 there wont be much of a change in the fps.
though its still cool, to recive an bonus of 5-6fps because of a driver that was design to improve 1 game :D
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 04, 2004, 07:22:16 am
FS1 was released here, thats how I found it, FS2, however, wasn't :P

So another israeli here, thats what? 3? Fear, you'll find I don't post here alot, or more like not at all, so make that 2 :P


on the shine maps, I havn't tried yet, do they work on a 9700?


On the question of 6800 to X800? simply, today, with todays games, go for 6800GT, whose standerd cooler allows you to reach 6800 ultra levels.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 04, 2004, 08:14:21 am
how can u tell?
doom was tested and was built with nvidia cards, they completley designed it to work on nvidia cards the best.
while HL2 will work on ati cards the best, for the same reason...

beside we are 3 its cool;)
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 04, 2004, 08:21:18 am
Well, I can easily by benchs on other games except Doom3.

Doom3 would have run better on Nvidia anyway, thanks to its heavily pixel based shadowing process, used everyone, even with AA and AF giving ATI a chance to close the gap, the advantage of basicly having 2 pixels in the line at the same time, and Nvidia's good efficiency with pixel calculations.

On the other hand, a heavily geometry based game like HL2, gives the oppisate reaction, though its telling that doom3 was subtitled "I can't see ****", so the shadowing does need tweaking.

On the next FPS game, STALKER, well its heavy in both directions, with its good pixel stuff, and good geometry, but Xbit benchs say ATI :P.

Also, the 6800 is a future bet, since if you have the cash for another 6800GT, you put them together in a SLI connection, and own anything in your way.

you can tell i'm a geek no? :P

1 Israeli is nothing
2 Israelies is an argument
3 Israelies are invinciable :P
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 04, 2004, 08:25:58 am
Dam how did u learn all those stuff ? :D
nice, and yes god damn im invinciable
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 04, 2004, 08:27:35 am
Its called our stupid schools, and being obsessive :P
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 04, 2004, 08:56:58 am
u made 3 posts here. u r active now.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 04, 2004, 09:03:29 am
periods, think of a girls periods, think of how she makes fast decisions, but once a month, kinda like me, belive me, I totatly forgot about HLP till like right now. :P
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Silent Warrior on August 04, 2004, 09:39:31 am
Ace Pace: 9700 Pro + Catalyst 4.4 = teh sh1niiiiii! :cool: It does make very unsettling things happen to the fonts and stuff if you're using AA/AF (both screws it up), but that's a small price to pay for shinies.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 04, 2004, 09:45:32 am
Quote
Originally posted by Silent Warrior
Ace Pace: 9700 Pro + Catalyst 4.4 = teh sh1niiiiii! :cool: It does make very unsettling things happen to the fonts and stuff if you're using AA/AF (both screws it up), but that's a small price to pay for shinies.


Well,thats not so bad, I belive the last time I updated (before I left for my giant european torture), it was 4.4.

If I'm wrong, where can I find 4.4?

I don't use AA and AF for freespace anyway, and fonts... could care less, but the shine maps are awesome, is there any chance to ask for the ATI programmers to look into this? even a single email?
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Taristin on August 04, 2004, 11:28:21 am
atitech.com They have the older cat's further down on the page.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Viper1000 on August 04, 2004, 04:16:04 pm
Ok for the last time people if your Radeon card doesn't display shinemaps use Catalyst 4.4.  Anything newer than 4.4 will break shinemappings.  I have a 9800XT and 4.5, 4.6, and 4.7 all break my shines.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: CP5670 on August 04, 2004, 05:15:28 pm
Quote
Also, the 6800 is a future bet, since if you have the cash for another 6800GT, you put them together in a SLI connection, and own anything in your way.


The SLI thing sounds great but only works for PCIE versions of these cards, which I don't think have been released yet. You would also need to have a motherboard with two PCIE 16x slots, which isn't out either.

I guess nobody has an X800 here then? Although if the shinemap issue occurs with all other ATI cards with 4.4+ drivers, it's safe to assume it also happens with the X800s. Sticking to 4.4 is not an option though unless FS2 is the only game you play; these drivers are pretty old and the newer ones support extra features with the new cards and give some performance improvements. Given how close these cards are, this sort of thing is enough to steer me away from the X800s and get one of the 6800s instead.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Hippo on August 04, 2004, 05:19:00 pm
Odd, I have a 9700 and drivers 6.17 ( :wtf: ) (is it supposed to te that high? It doesn't say catalyst anywhere...) and /i get perfect shinyness...
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Taristin on August 04, 2004, 07:05:37 pm
Cat's are at 4. something now... so yeah, :wtf:
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on August 04, 2004, 11:32:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Sticking to 4.4 is not an option though unless FS2 is the only game you play; these drivers are pretty old and the newer ones support extra features with the new cards and give some performance improvements.

I've got a dual-boot system, with Win98SE and WinXP.  Since ATI only makes supported drivers up to 4.2 for Win98SE (you can get 4.7 for it, but it's un-certified), I play FS2 under that opperating system, which also gives me more free memory to play with.  For XP, I've got the newest drivers that have been certified (4.7).  I run all newer games from XP.

Later!
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 05, 2004, 02:40:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670


The SLI thing sounds great but only works for PCIE versions of these cards, which I don't think have been released yet. You would also need to have a motherboard with two PCIE 16x slots, which isn't out either.

I guess nobody has an X800 here then? Although if the shinemap issue occurs with all other ATI cards with 4.4+ drivers, it's safe to assume it also happens with the X800s. Sticking to 4.4 is not an option though unless FS2 is the only game you play; these drivers are pretty old and the newer ones support extra features with the new cards and give some performance improvements. Given how close these cards are, this sort of thing is enough to steer me away from the X800s and get one of the 6800s instead.


Yes, but for my next purchase, a PCIe mobo is a must, so it is an option.

Actully, getting a 6800 is anyway better, as it preformes on most games better then the X800, till AA and AF goes up.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Silent Warrior on August 05, 2004, 09:48:45 am
Hippo: Newbie! :p Here, I'll dump my ATI Control Panel -> [ATI] Options at you...

Versioninformation
CATALYST-version              04.4 (Catalyst 4.4, duh)
2D Version                         6.14.10.6436
Package version                8.00-040322a-014266C

Now then, which Catalyst's do you have? Could it be... 4.7?
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: StratComm on August 05, 2004, 10:13:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
I guess nobody has an X800 here then? Although if the shinemap issue occurs with all other ATI cards with 4.4+ drivers, it's safe to assume it also happens with the X800s. Sticking to 4.4 is not an option though unless FS2 is the only game you play; these drivers are pretty old and the newer ones support extra features with the new cards and give some performance improvements. Given how close these cards are, this sort of thing is enough to steer me away from the X800s and get one of the 6800s instead.


I have an X800 XT, but I haven't installed FS on that computer yet to know if shines work or not.  (Still waiting to get back to broadband... erm, I mean school, to download everything).  They probably don't, but it's not exactly like I can roll back as far as 4.4 and still have the new card actually work.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 05, 2004, 01:24:14 pm
You can discount 4.4, since the first working X800 drivers came out in july, with support since june, 4.6 should be minimum.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 08, 2004, 09:23:08 am
im using 4.9B because i get an improvement of 5-10 fps in doom3, and fs2 work like **** so anyway i cant play.... for now.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: CP5670 on August 09, 2004, 01:24:50 am
yay, I actually found a BFG 6800 GT at a best buy (somewhat further away than the two nearby BBs) for MSRP. :D There were none on the shelves but I asked a sales guy about it and he got one from storage, saying that they had just recieved a small shipment. Needless to say, I took it to the checkout counter immediately. Among many other things, this will let me run FS2 with the hieffects stuff and should probably overclock to at least ultra speeds.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 09, 2004, 02:04:27 am
Unless you have a hot computer, yes, you can reach ultra speeds, and even pass ultra.

And damn you for getting those toys allready, I have to wait for price cuts :drevil: , but just wait, birthday PC's are fun :thepimp: .

Since this is going OT, what do you guys think of this as a future PC?

Nforce 4 motherboard (gigabyte build)
Athlon 64-bit 3800+ (socket 939 of course)
Geforce 6800GT with the HSI cooler
DVD burner 8X (plextor)
CDROM
onboard soundstorm 2 (no wimpy audigy)
Raptor 74GB 10K RPM for system and critical stuff
Duel Western's 120GB's on a RAID 1

Comments?
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 09, 2004, 06:13:09 pm
ram?take 2 giga.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 10, 2004, 04:13:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Fear
ram?take 2 giga.



RAM will depend on however many RAM slots the gigabyte will support and current prices, however it will be DDR, since the onboard memory controller is configured for DDR.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 10, 2004, 01:43:45 pm
if im correct the new amd support dual ddr.... thats mean up to 2 ddr slots that being use... not 3 or 4. i say take 2 giga 1 slot.... save the other for the future.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 10, 2004, 02:49:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Fear
if im correct the new amd support dual ddr.... thats mean up to 2 ddr slots that being use... not 3 or 4. i say take 2 giga 1 slot.... save the other for the future.


I belive your mistaken, AMD supports Duel Channel RAM mangement, which basicly treats your 4 slots as 2 which allows for faster acess of it.

EDIT: rephrasing for Duel Channel "dual channel memory uses two memory lanes to double memory throughput, but it comes at the cost of needing to populate both memory banks"

The most RAM motherboards today will take is 4GB, with 4 sticks of 1024RAM, though the latencies on that size make it useless for gaming, as you would be acessing the RAM at a snails pace.

However, what AMD is supporting is an on-board memory controller, basicly re-ordering the order of RAM commands, and speeding acess up.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: CP5670 on August 10, 2004, 07:35:10 pm
Quote
Unless you have a hot computer, yes, you can reach ultra speeds, and even pass ultra.

And damn you for getting those toys allready, I have to wait for price cuts , but just wait, birthday PC's are fun .


:D yeah, I'm looking forward to trying that. The problem right now is my crappy power supply; I had to remove one of the CD drives and a side fan for now to get the card to work stably at the stock 370/1000 speed and the autodetect thing only shows 385/1030, although I'm not going to push it at all just yet. I will be ordering a new psu in a day or two and am looking around at possible options. The OCZ 520w model looks nice; any of you have that?

Quote
I belive your mistaken, AMD supports Duel Channel RAM mangement, which basicly treats your 4 slots as 2 which allows for faster acess of it.

EDIT: rephrasing for Duel Channel "dual channel memory uses two memory lanes to double memory throughput, but it comes at the cost of needing to populate both memory banks"

The most RAM motherboards today will take is 4GB, with 4 sticks of 1024RAM, though the latencies on that size make it useless for gaming, as you would be acessing the RAM at a snails pace.

However, what AMD is supporting is an on-board memory controller, basicly re-ordering the order of RAM commands, and speeding acess up


The dual channel thing is nice but does not really do much for any of the AMD processors, although since it's free performance you might as well use it. :D You want the same amount of memory in each channel; two 512 sticks would work fine. I actually have three modules in this mode on an AXP but they are of different sizes (two 256s and one 512, although all are 400mhz).

Right now there is not much point in getting 2gb unless you do lots of heavy graphics editing or stuff like that, although you do want 1gb. Normal 3-3-3-8 stuff will be fine from some well known brand; smaller timings hardly do anything and cost a lot more.

As for your system, get a single large hard disk (the new 16mb cache drives are almost as fast as raptors but larger and cheaper), drop the extra cd drive and spend the money on a second GT instead. I think nforce 4 will support two PCIE x16 slots and two GTs in the SLI mode will be insanely fast. Also, get a dedicated soundcard if you play games a lot. The Audigy2 ZS's drivers can be annoying but it's much better than the soundstorm in games unless you want to use a digital receiver. The retail version also comes with like $120 worth of games, more than the soundcard's price. The music/DVD quality is similar though.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: JR2000Z on August 10, 2004, 09:25:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ace Pace
Since this is going OT, what do you guys think of this as a future PC?

Nforce 4 motherboard (gigabyte build)
Athlon 64-bit 3800+ (socket 939 of course)
Geforce 6800GT with the HSI cooler
DVD burner 8X (plextor)
CDROM
onboard soundstorm 2 (no wimpy audigy)
Raptor 74GB 10K RPM for system and critical stuff
Duel Western's 120GB's on a RAID 1

Comments?


Damn. You got a rich family.

I'm also planning to get A64 and a couple weeks. But I'll plan on blowing it all next year when it's the era of PCI Express.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 11, 2004, 02:42:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670


:D yeah, I'm looking forward to trying that. The problem right now is my crappy power supply; I had to remove one of the CD drives and a side fan for now to get the card to work stably at the stock 370/1000 speed and the autodetect thing only shows 385/1030, although I'm not going to push it at all just yet. I will be ordering a new psu in a day or two and am looking around at possible options. The OCZ 520w model looks nice; any of you have that?


Allready nice speeds, though I wouldn't push it too much.

On the PSU you mentioned, its overkill, pure and simple, unless your going to SLI the thing, a Antec 500w would be enough.


Quote

The dual channel thing is nice but does not really do much for any of the AMD processors, although since it's free performance you might as well use it. :D You want the same amount of memory in each channel; two 512 sticks would work fine. I actually have three modules in this mode on an AXP but they are of different sizes (two 256s and one 512, although all are 400mhz).

Right now there is not much point in getting 2gb unless you do lots of heavy graphics editing or stuff like that, although you do want 1gb. Normal 3-3-3-8 stuff will be fine from some well known brand; smaller timings hardly do anything and cost a lot more.

As for your system, get a single large hard disk (the new 16mb cache drives are almost as fast as raptors but larger and cheaper), drop the extra cd drive and spend the money on a second GT instead. I think nforce 4 will support two PCIE x16 slots and two GTs in the SLI mode will be insanely fast. Also, get a dedicated soundcard if you play games a lot. The Audigy2 ZS's drivers can be annoying but it's much better than the soundstorm in games unless you want to use a digital receiver. The retail version also comes with like $120 worth of games, more than the soundcard's price. The music/DVD quality is similar though. [/B]



Yes, it dosn't do much, but it helps if you do cache intensitive stuff (loading in and out of RAM also), or stuff like video editing, but basicly its helpful.

Did I say there was a reason for 2GB? Unless you will be keeping this computer till UE 3.0, 2GB will go to waste.

The low timing RAM's will help, if like you, I overclock, even 2-3-2 timing would be helpful, although the AMD memory controller practicly does their work.

Actully the larger cache isn't that useful unless I do heavy compiling or graphical work, its acess times that will rule when I search for files or do tweaking, idea is super fast start-up, with the most importent games and programs stuck there. Also, 1 larger drive negates the speed benefit of RAID0.


Not really, the idea is this PC gets funding from my dad, and later, after my birthday, if I have enough money and benchs show its worth it, i'll stick a GT and a CPU upgrade.

Soundcard is redudent with the Soundstorm 2, its audigy level, and its CPU footprint is tiny.
The only possible use for an audigy now would be if I run though my PC the entire house, sending 2 channels to stero, 6 channels to surround,  2 to my speakers etc. then a audigy would be nice.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: CP5670 on August 11, 2004, 02:26:32 pm
Quote
Allready nice speeds, though I wouldn't push it too much.

On the PSU you mentioned, its overkill, pure and simple, unless your going to SLI the thing, a Antec 500w would be enough.


Well, I want one that will last through a couple of upgrades, not just to work with the existing setup. The similar Antec model is cheaper while the Enermax is more expensive, but this has a better 12V output than either one and has individually adjustable voltages. I don't care for the fan lighting but that comes with it too.

The 6800 GT is working great and is a huge improvement in games (I had a lowly original GF3 until now), but hey, overclocking is free performance. :D The GT in particular seems to really improve a lot as the frequency increases.

Quote
Yes, it dosn't do much, but it helps if you do cache intensitive stuff (loading in and out of RAM also), or stuff like video editing, but basicly its helpful.

...


If money is no object, get an FX53 instead. :D (or FX55, which might be released by the time nforce4 motherboards come out) It's got added cache and an unlocked multiplier.

The timings don't do much for overclocking; they help by maybe 0.5% (in games) at lower memory speeds (closer to 400mhz) and that's about it. For overclocking you just need higher bandwidth memory and right now you can't get memory with both small timings and high bandwidth. Regarding the 2gb thing, I was referring to an earlier post suggesting that.

You probably won't have to worry much about startup times in practice though if you are using WXP, as you don't need to restart very often. Games sometimes load a bit faster on raptors though, which can be crucial for certain multiplayer FPSs where the fast loaders get the first choice in weapons. As for RAID0, I don't know much about it but articles at storage review and anandtech say that it is next to useless for desktop systems, especially for games. It depends what you want to do with the computer though.

Does Soundstorm 2 support support EAX 4 (HD)? Make sure you have that, as a lot of newer games can can use only EAX 4 and do not support older versions of it at all, so if you don't have an Audigy 2 you have to use software sound. I still have a three year old Live 5.1 and am running into this problem quite often.

Looks like an awesome system though, but you might have to wait a while for nf4 boards.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 11, 2004, 03:41:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670


Well, I want one that will last through a couple of upgrades, not just to work with the existing setup. The similar Antec model is cheaper while the Enermax is more expensive, but this has a better 12V output than either one and has individually adjustable voltages. I don't care for the fan lighting but that comes with it too.

The 6800 GT is working great and is a huge improvement in games (I had a lowly original GF3 until now), but hey, overclocking is free performance. :D The GT in particular seems to really improve a lot as the frequency increases.


Well, the antec has enough 12V output, but your choice.

Yes I know, the 6800GT is awesome, though with the Nforce4... SLI anyone :drevil:


Quote

If money is no object, get an FX53 instead. :D (or FX55, which might be released by the time nforce4 motherboards come out) It's got added cache and an unlocked multiplier.


Ah, no, the FX is outdated, with only its higher cache, that is negated with the reguler Athlons having the memory controller, above a certine level, its a diminishing return.
Quote

The timings don't do much for overclocking; they help by maybe 0.5% (in games) at lower memory speeds (closer to 400mhz) and that's about it. For overclocking you just need higher bandwidth memory and right now you can't get memory with both small timings and high bandwidth. Regarding the 2gb thing, I was referring to an earlier post suggesting that.

You probably won't have to worry much about startup times in practice though if you are using WXP, as you don't need to restart very often. Games sometimes load a bit faster on raptors though, which can be crucial for certain multiplayer FPSs where the fast loaders get the first choice in weapons. As for RAID0, I don't know much about it but articles at storage review and anandtech say that it is next to useless for desktop systems, especially for games. It depends what you want to do with the computer though.

Does Soundstorm 2 support support EAX 4 (HD)? Make sure you have that, as a lot of newer games can can use only EAX 4 and do not support older versions of it at all, so if you don't have an Audigy 2 you have to use software sound. I still have a three year old Live 5.1 and am running into this problem quite often.

Looks like an awesome system though, but you might have to wait a while for nf4 boards. [/B]


For the memory, okey, nothing to say.

On the startup, since I do tons of tweaking and registry changes, i'll like fast load up, and as you said, map loading for FPS's, Americas Army takes ages, and RTW...:doubt:

Actully, TH.com article shows, atleast for Matrix raid, preformance increase up to 10%, though maybe i'll go RAID1 instead, I like my backups.

Soundstorm2 will probebly have everything, but we'll see, next to nothing is known  on the Nforce4.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Sandwich on August 12, 2004, 03:35:02 am
On-board audio sucks. I have the usual Soundstorm with my nForce2 Asus MB, and it's worse than my 4-year-old 4-channel SB Live! X-Gamer card. :doubt:
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 12, 2004, 03:39:03 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
On-board audio sucks. I have the usual Soundstorm with my nForce2 Asus MB, and it's worse than my 4-year-old 4-channel SB Live! X-Gamer card. :doubt:


We'll see when it comes out, supposed to be great, if not, its an extra purchase, thats going to come out of my pocket.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Eternal One on August 12, 2004, 04:27:36 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
On-board audio sucks. I have the usual Soundstorm with my nForce2 Asus MB, and it's worse than my 4-year-old 4-channel SB Live! X-Gamer card. :doubt:


Soundstorm is digital.

If you use analog output, the signals go through D/A converters which are usually very cheap and crap, and Live wins. If you use digital output, even Audigy can't match with Soundstorm.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 13, 2004, 06:57:26 am
dam it i got no shine in 4.9B. it will never be fix by ati... can some 1 fix it?
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Ace Pace on August 13, 2004, 08:04:36 am
Quote
Originally posted by Fear
dam it i got no shine in 4.9B. it will never be fix by ati... can some 1 fix it?


Couldn't we, the community, ask them to fix it? After all, the latest release notes show barely any fixes, so their must be some slack, We've had support before, they did a GC fix for 4.0 I think, because the community asked for it. IIRC.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 13, 2004, 02:16:20 pm
are u talking about ground control?

I think we can , but dont forget GC wasnt a failure in selling. FS2 is, we got like 200 fan top while GC got alot more... alot alot more.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: IceFire on August 14, 2004, 06:39:00 pm
After 4.4, shines broken on my Radeon 9700Pro.

I think we have to fix the problem, not ATI...they have been tightening up their drivers so its caused some problems like this (and stuff with Raven Shield for sure too).  We probably SHOULD ask them about why it happens and what we can do to fix it.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 15, 2004, 10:12:15 am
yep... and i cant return to 4.4 because doom work like **** there... besides 4.9 is awesome it has improved every game of mine in at least 2-5 fps(Wich is alot for me ;) )
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Psychonaut on August 15, 2004, 11:40:41 am
Yes, this is a big f...ing problem. The only solution i found, was to install WinXP to another partition and use DualBoot. One Xp with cat4.9 for newer games (i.e. doom3) and another Xp for Freespace. It works, but it´s a stupid solution.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Sandwich on August 16, 2004, 01:01:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Eternal One


Soundstorm is digital.

If you use analog output, the signals go through D/A converters which are usually very cheap and crap, and Live wins. If you use digital output, even Audigy can't match with Soundstorm.


Oh, it's not sound quality I'm talking about. The quality on my Soundstorm 1 was fine. I was referring more to the effect playing sounds had on the system through an on-board chip vs. a PCI card. The audio would skip from time to time.

Additionally, I had an issue where my back speakers weren't being sent the proper signals somehow (and yes, I quadruple-checked the plugs). The rear left was being heard rear-center (ie. from both speakers equally), and the rear-right wasn't coming through at all. Weird stuff, but I doubt that was because it was on-board.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 16, 2004, 09:13:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by Psychonaut
Yes, this is a big f...ing problem. The only solution i found, was to install WinXP to another partition and use DualBoot. One Xp with cat4.9 for newer games (i.e. doom3) and another Xp for Freespace. It works, but it´s a stupid solution.


i love FS2 but no way im going to do this.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on August 16, 2004, 09:00:49 pm
Cat 4.8 for WinXP are out now from ATI's site.
Title: SCP support Directx 9?
Post by: Fear on August 17, 2004, 06:47:57 am
if im correct they still brake shine....