Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Starks on July 26, 2004, 01:03:30 pm
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How many Manticores and Dragons were you able to take down in the "exploding cargo depot" mission in FS1? *WITHOUT CHEATING*
I've taken down 2 Manticores, those Dragons are too fast.
(Bonus: Have you ever destroyed the Cain that jumps in?)
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I have a hard time taking down Dragons period. Bastards are too quick.
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I never tried it. I think [V] made that Cain invulnerable.
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Dragons are darn fast but I killed few of them in that mission
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A few is more than nothing.
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I think I've doen 3 or 4 manticores, but if I hang around that long killing fighters I inevitably die a horrible death when I finally get around to scanning the cargo. If I want to pass the misssion I ignore the fighters entirely and run around scanning cargo like a rabid squirrel looking for nuts.
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Well, the Cain is the Taranis, so if you could destroy it, it would be a bit silly, no?
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Actually, I know I disabled and disarmed it in one of the missions *before* you're supposed to capture it, once. :p
I don't know if that was the mission though, I remember it having an Aten or something in it.
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Yes, the one with the Ramses.
I always got stuck on that mission because the Shivans were too incompetant to actually destroy the Aten cruiser, so I always ended up floating around, waiting for the mission to end.
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There's a bug in that mission, but only sometimes...IIRC it only happened to me after installing the 1.06 patch.
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Happend to me once. I ended up destroying the ramses my self to continue to the next mission.
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This is one with the exploding cargo, not the Ramses...
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Yes, and that is known to us. However, you asked if anyone had destroyed the Taranis in 'Pandora's Box', and I expressed my doubts that you could, because the Taranis appears in later missions - most notably, the buggy one where you're supposed to fail to capture the Ramses but what actually happens is that the Shivans fail to destroy the Aten, and so the player often flies around, stuck in the endless mission, and so disarms and disables the Taranis in utter boredom. Which is somewhat similar to destroying the Taranis. Which was the subject of your initial 'bonus' question. And the subject of my response. Yes.
See? It all makes perfect sense.
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There are so many fighters and bombers. I have never seen them fail to destroy the Ramses. When they suffer for too long, I help them. I often start firing at it as soon as the Taranis arrives, just to make the mission shorter. Inspired by this thread, I should try to destroy the Taranis. I am really curious. I have $10 that ship has the ship-guardian.
Before this post drives anybody up the wall, let me say that: YES! I am talking about the 'Capture the Ramses' mission, not the 'Capture Shivan cargo' one. Facing a Cain with several Shivan fighters on your back and two banks of ML-16s in your primary backs is simply crazy.
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This is a little off-topic but, the "Hellfire" mission is in the Silent Threat expansion is it not? That's one of my favorite missions ever. There's swarms of fighters and Shivan cruisers.
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I'm pretty sure, if you destroy the Taranis, Command yells at you and you fail the mission.
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Whatever happened to the SB Shaitan?
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
I'm pretty sure, if you destroy the Taranis, Command yells at you and you fail the mission.
In which missions? The Pandora's box?
Originally posted by LLivingLarge
Whatever happened to the SB Shaitan?
What do you mean?
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In the one with the Ramses, certainly. Not sure about 'Pandora's Box'.
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Originally posted by LLivingLarge
Whatever happened to the SB Shaitan?
It was Shait. So :V: dropped it. :p
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I believe in the one with the Ramses, when the Taranis gets below something like 30% hull integrity, the Taranis jumps out and command tells you to return to base.
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I haven't played FS1 since getting FS2, but I have played the Port. I have found that more recent versions of the Port have the bug in the Ramses mission, which prevents the shivans from firing on the Ramses. They'll shoot at anything else though. I've take a look through the sexps and can find no reason for this. As far as the Taranis is concerned, in the Port, if you either nearly disable, disarm, or destroy the Taranis, the Ramses self-destructs and the Taranis warps out.
I've never been crazy enough to try to engage the Taranis in 'Pandorda's Box' and I usually ignore everything but the cargo and sentries.
Later!
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Originally posted by LLivingLarge
How many Manticores and Dragons were you able to take down in the "exploding cargo depot" mission in FS1? *WITHOUT CHEATING*
I've taken down 2 Manticores, those Dragons are too fast.
(Bonus: Have you ever destroyed the Cain that jumps in?)
I dunno, I destroyed a lot of Manticores, but few Dragons. I spent ~20 minutes guarding the Ramses before I finally gave up and left.
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
Yes, the one with the Ramses.
I always got stuck on that mission because the Shivans were too incompetant to actually destroy the Aten cruiser, so I always ended up floating around, waiting for the mission to end.
LOL, yeah I had to hide behind it so the taranis would hit the Aten :p
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*is suprised Goober didn't swoop down to explain the exact details of the FS1 missions*
/me will do so instead.
I have destroyed all of them (with the exception of Arjuna since they have 100 waves), on Medium. Barring the multiple waves of Arjuna, there's only 13 fighters, and 6 Sentries. You do know that you can target the fighters, right? And plus, FS1 wingmen weren't nearly as stupid as FS2 wingmen, and could actually help you. (Hence, why I am making AHTW for FS1)...
Last point, you all know it was worthless to cheat in FS1 anyway, just because it may help you with one mission, but then not the rest, right? Or am I making too many assumptions?
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if you're good, you can take down a dragon from a distance with a PhoenixV rocket.
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true, with a hear on or dead on rear hit, but they weren't available here... only the ML-16, MX50 and Fury's...
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Originally posted by Hippo
true, with a hear on or dead on rear hit, but they weren't available here... only the ML-16, MX50 and Fury's...
good point.
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That's the only way I took down Dragons - one Phoenix V, impeccable timing, and they're no problem. On Insane, there's no other way to take them down - they just evade too much to take down with primaries. :shaking: Had to use my Phoenix Vs during A Failure To Communicate.
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and evade missiles pretty damn well too... But, that is why its Insane, isn't it ;)
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I use Tempests. Takes me just a few seconds to take a dragon down. Use the primaries to soften up the rear shield, and then fire a few voleys of dumbfire missiles. Never fails!
;7
The dumbfire missile is my favorite missile, followed by the Trebuchet. All the others are either too weak, or too slow. Waste of bank space, if you ask me.
:ick:
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...
FS1
Dragons are a LOT easier in FS2...
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Originally posted by Hippo
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FS1
Dragons are a LOT easier in FS2...
Yep, they don't even seem that agile. Enter the Dragon was goddamn annoying in FS1.
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Originally posted by Hippo
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FS1
Dragons are a LOT easier in FS2...
I have to disagree with you on that. When i first read that, i wasn´t sure, because i hadn´t still encountered Dragons on FS1 (started playing the port yesterday). And so i waited ti´ll i face them in FS, so that i could compare them. But now that i have faced them, i have to say that they are equally as hard to kill on both FS1 and FS2. The only diference being the weapons the player has to kill it. In FS2 you have better guns, and that´s it. I faced the Dragon on both campaigns, and only found a minimal diference between them. Their shield recharges a bit faster in FS, and our weapons are weaker.
It could also depend on wether you play on "insane" dificulty, or not. I played both in the same level of dificulty, and found no diferences in their behaviour.
Note that whenever a shivan is taking fire from both you and your wingmen, they fly more erradically. Could be that that´s why some thought it was harder to kill...
And note also that most small ships in FS have a harder hull. It´s crazy that a transport is as hard to kill as a cruiser!!
A piece of advice when fighting Dragons:
stop your engine, or at least slowdown to a crawl. They will fly around you, just begging for you to place a rocket up their tail pipe!:D
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No, see, FS1 dragons behave differently in the FS1 engine. You cannot play the port and expect it to be the same. Everything was slower in FS1, and the Shivans pwned you with only 2 or 3 ships, unlike the 5 or 6 that spawn simultaneously in FS2. And in the Port.
If you can grab a copy of FS1, I suggest you do so, or else you'll never know what you're missing.
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It's strange. I was chasing Arjuna 1 for at least five minutes until I managed to disable it in the port. I can disable it in 30 seconds in FS1.
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FS2 does feel alot faster and more maneuverable. Perhaps your responses are more tuned towards FS2 than 1, making most FS1 ships feel cumbersome?
Just a guess. :)
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First time, it took me a while to disable it, but now, i can have it done in under a minute... Its just getting used to the D-Advanced that helps, since it fires slowly, so you have to aim perfectly.
I agree with mr Tor'h in the fact, that you cannot claim to have played FS1 by playing the port. The port is still great, but it isn't FS1, because they are both EXTREMELY different... Thats why while i play on medium on FS1, i can play the exact same mission on Insane in the port, and have the same results...
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Originally posted by Hippo
...I agree with mr Tor'h in the fact, that you cannot claim to have played FS1 by playing the port....
Sometimes I cannot understand where people get ideas like these from. I didn't state with a single word that I played FS1 only by the charity of the Port. I did complete the [V] FS1 at least 15 times.
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I didn't mean you ;) I meant people who download the port, then say they've played FS1
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Yeah, that was directed at Swamp_thing...
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It seems that the overall opinion is that things are faster in FS2, thus making the FS1 Dragon more slow and cumbersome, wich means "easier" to track, and eventually kill.
Don´t get me wrong, i have indeed played the official FS1 before. I never finished it, and i can´t remember wether i found Dragons or not, back then. My PC was a piece of defecation then, and the graphics on it sucked big time, so i didn´t get too much excited about playing it to the end. Now the port, that is worth playing!!
As for the engine acting diferently, i really don´t know. It has been too long a time for me to compare between them both.
What i have figured while playing is that the player ships are way too ****ty in comparison to FS2. I spend most of the time waiting for my guns to recharge, and all the ships feel like you´re flying a cap ship, instead of a fighter. They are so slow turning, that it´s almost pathetic...
A plausible explanation to why people think the Dragon was harder to kill in FS1, could be because people were still "learning" the ropes of the game, while in FS2 people are already experienced pilots making it seem easier, when infact it´s just you that changed, and not the game.
And, of course, this all depends on each individual´s skills at handling the game, isn´t it?
:nod:
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Originally posted by TopAce
It's strange. I was chasing Arjuna 1 for at least five minutes until I managed to disable it in the port. I can disable it in 30 seconds in FS1.
I think its because the original FS1 tables had a second entry for the Dragon, which is listed as a "weakened" version, with lower specs. This goes along with the mission briefing, which states that said Dragon is in a weakened state. The Port doesn't include a weakened version, and so you're going up against a full-blown Dragon. If you ask me, we need a cap-speed sexp, which would opperate kinda like the cap-waypoint-speed, but would be intended for situations where waypoints aren't involved and you just want a ship to maneuver more slowly than its table entry would define.
Later!
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Yeah, it's hard to find the right balance on certain Port missions. I try to play it every so often so I can keep an eye out for that.
Incidentally, cap-waypoint-speed works for all situations, not just waypoints.
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
A plausible explanation to why people think the Dragon was harder to kill in FS1, could be because people were still "learning" the ropes of the game, while in FS2 people are already experienced pilots making it seem easier, when infact it´s just you that changed, and not the game.
And, of course, this all depends on each individual´s skills at handling the game, isn´t it?
:nod:
I have to disagree. Everyone here will tell you that I play FS1 more then FS2, as Goober and I are the only people crazy enough to still have hopes of moding it. But I still find the dragon more difficult to kill in FS1 then FS2. You're trying to compare Red apples to Green apples. They are basially the same, but a slight difference makes them completely different.
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IIRC the AI was improoved in FS2 - the table stats are the same for both FS1 and FS2 ships - I mean the Port vs. the orig. FS1.
So in theory the ships should be harder to kill.
Now, I guess this is the moment when a coder should step in and try to shed some light on what hardcoded changes they ( = the SCP team) seem to find or think were done.
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do any of you guys bother to stick around after the Trinity gets nailed ? (Mystery of the Trinity/FS2)
I've always thought that would be a good test, though I usually hack the mission and use a more intersting fighter. (Herc2 with Subach and P-R gets tiresome after a while)
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I have, but its usually not worth it with only tempests and rockeyes... If it would let you take aspect, i'd try longer... I've changed them with cheats right at the beginning, and then tried the mission, and it was a lot easier... I'd assume that if you change friendly ships to hornets and harpoos, you could protect the trinity for some time...
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Originally posted by Hippo
I have, but its usually not worth it with only tempests and rockeyes... If it would let you take aspect, i'd try longer... I've changed them with cheats right at the beginning, and then tried the mission, and it was a lot easier... I'd assume that if you change friendly ships to hornets and harpoos, you could protect the trinity for some time...
Assuming you take out the scripted event that blows up the trinity soon after the dragons appear :D
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O.o
:wtf:
Uh... no? I've never had that happen... I've always had it die from shivan fire, both basalisks and dragons... Am i mising something?
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Open it up in FRED. You might see why you couldn't ever save the Trinity.
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Yeah, it usually goes from 33% to about 0 instantly. Much like the galatea...
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Originally posted by Setekh
That's the only way I took down Dragons - one Phoenix V, impeccable timing, and they're no problem. On Insane, there's no other way to take them down - they just evade too much to take down with primaries. :shaking: Had to use my Phoenix Vs during A Failure To Communicate.
What about Flail cannons?
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The galatae was from the super lasers, i'm positive of that... But i've never seen the trinitys hull drop excessivly fast... nor have i seen a Self-destruct in F4... *goes off to investigate*
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Originally posted by Mr. Vega
What about Flail cannons?
Not enough hull damage... Were they even available for that mssion? They might be... I don't remember what CB it was from, since the most previous one was on Last Hope...
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I said Galatea, but for some odd reason, i really meant the Orff... How the hell did I confuse those?
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Orff? The orff never gets destroyed... (Did it in ST? /it was in the last mission, but i hated ST so much i forget about it...)
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...The orff didn't get killed by the Shivans?
My god I need to play FS1 again... The mission wher the shivans take out the taurus and then jump by the terran vessel. Which ship was that?
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The GTSC Plato.
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The Plato is from the mission "Out of the Dark, Into the Night." It's carrying the Avenger cannon prototypes back to Sol for mass production. In that mission, the Shivans do take out the Taurus and then the Plato. However, the Plato's crew escapes in an escape pod with the prototypes.
The Orff was in two missions in FS1. In the first mission of FS1, "Eve of Destruction," you have to protect it from Vasudan attacks. Two missions later, in "Small Deadly Space," it jumps in to protect a captured Vasudan cargo depot. The Orff is also in the final mission of Silent Threat, but it's destroyed fairly quickly by GTI forces (unless you use cheats to quickly kill the Hades, of course :p).
I hope my diversion was informative :p.
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oh yeah.
oops.
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Originally posted by Mongoose
(unless you use cheats to quickly kill the Hades, of course :p).
When will people learn? You can't use cheats in FS1!
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Originally posted by Mongoose
The Orff is also in the final mission of Silent Threat, but it's destroyed fairly quickly by GTI forces (unless you use cheats to quickly kill the Hades, of course :p).
Is the Orff the cruiser that jumps in with the cavalry? If it is, then i managed to save it, without any cheats.Never used cheats , actually, they take the fun out of the game.
The cruiser is taken out by a few bombers launched from the Hades. Take them out, and you will have saved the cruiser. Wich may i add, is very usefull later on, when he places itself hovering over the Hades fighterbay, pissing fire down on the launching fighters.
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Originally posted by Hippo
When will people learn? You can't use cheats in FS1!
You can use cheats; it's just that you can't advance to the next mission after doing so :p. I myself didn't cheat on that mission, except for the fun factor of killing the Hades with a few rounds of Shivan Super Laser :p.
I never tried that, Swamp_Thing. The only method I used to beat the Hades was one I found on the walkthrough from GameFaqs. I hid in the angle between the engines and their supports, where the AI isn't smart enough to fire at you. That, coupled with time compression and a rubber band around the joystick, led to dead Hades. Of course, by doing that you're not able to save the Orff; I should try it the other way some time.
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Originally posted by Mongoose
I never tried that, Swamp_Thing. The only method I used to beat the Hades was one I found on the walkthrough from GameFaqs. I hid in the angle between the engines and their supports, where the AI isn't smart enough to fire at you. That, coupled with time compression and a rubber band around the joystick, led to dead Hades.
Won't work in the Port though.
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Originally posted by Hippo
When will people learn? You can't use cheats in FS1!
What about the infinite ammo cheat that stays on?
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Originally posted by LLivingLarge
What about the infinite ammo cheat that stays on?
Very Sneaky :D
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Or you can always edit the Hades' .tbl file.... ;7