Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stunaep on July 28, 2004, 05:00:18 am
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http://www.users.qwest.net/~amerrill/
God, I'm excited.
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the PC-Powerplay Review is out, aussies, check it out..
the cool thing was, the review score was 96, exactly the same score they gave Freespace 2.. :D
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link?
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Originally posted by Stunaep
link?
i'll scan the article.
EDIT: no, it's Six pages long..
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96%? Crikey. Isn't that what they gave Half Life?
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Doom3 Gonna be kick ass! game
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Glad to hear it's well recieved by the mags - but I'll hold off total judgement untill I get my own mits on it.
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Doom bored me to tears. I hope they've eliminated that feature from Doom III.
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PCG US gave it 94. :blah:
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Doom? I never understood the reason why people liked those games.
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Dito...
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The game looks like fun. I've been itching to play something atmospheric. The graphics look good too, but farcry already exposed me to that sorta stuff. So it no longer has that "Oooh" factor. So now I can atleast see how it playes as a game, instead of oogling at the pritty pictures.
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Originally posted by Lonestar
Doom? I never understood the reason why people liked those games.
I quite digged Doom, but this one is, apparently more like System Shock 2. And when has that been a bad thing.
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I just hope they've actually got it right. D3 is hyped to high heaven, so it had better deliver. It's all very well having the pretty eye candy, but a fun gaming experience is required, as is a good storyline.
Gamers expect that these days. When Doom and Doom II were around, we were content to just blast through the levels, grab the keycards and blow the crap out of the final uber-boss. Doom 3 will not get away with that, despite the pedigree of the previous instalments.
Besides, I'm looking forward to Half-Life 2 more than Doom 3.
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Originally posted by Stunaep
I quite digged Doom, but this one is, apparently more like System Shock 2. And when has that been a bad thing.
System Shock 2? never played it either.
Maybe im just the kind of gamer who stuck to realistic games more then the fantasy ones? I should check doom out i might like it.
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one word, Mr Admin (sir), atmosphere.
Doom had it in bundles, as did System Shock2. You owe it to yorself to find Shock. Seriously.
The Cargo Docks are scary as hell, without much actually happening.
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Shock 2 had one heck of a story. From what I read, so will Doom III. Though, they have a very small chance of topping SHODAN.
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that was a cool twist wasn't it ?
Did you find that log in the Med/Sci crew quarters, where Dr I forgetHerName told Delacroix about the fragmented AI ?
Did you clock her voice being totally different to the emils she had been sending ? I must have played through the game 5 times, then it suddenly dawned on me.
That, was cool.
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Originally posted by magatsu1
that was a cool twist wasn't it ?
Did you find that log in the Med/Sci crew quarters, where Dr I forgetHerName told Delacroix about the fragmented AI ?
Did you clock her voice being totally different to the emils she had been sending ? I must have played through the game 5 times, then it suddenly dawned on me.
That, was cool.
Nope, but you just made me decide to go and find out.
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I loved Doom!
Running around blasting demons with the coolest-sounding shotgun... ahh, the memories!
No game has recaptured the atmosphere of the original Dooms - It was a weird mixture of insane-hyper-adrenaline filled blast-fests with suspense building bits thrown in. And the Maps!
Say what you will about Romero, he made some great maps for that game. I tend to find most modern FPS maps tend to be, well, samey, uninspired and generally unimpressive.
The main exception is Half-life, that also had great maps.
Doom 3 is a bit false: It is gonna have very little to do with the first two, and in fact usurps the plot from them!
D1&2 were fast-paced action-packed shooters, but D3 is gonna be a slow-paced atmosphere-shooter, more akin to System Shock, or Thief, or ahh crap what's that game... Silent Hill? Alien vs. Predator? (Well, when you are playing a marine :))
It will be one seriously awesomely scary game, but people expecting the next Doom are gonna be disappointed I reckon.
I won't buy it until the Linux client comes out 'tho, since they say Win98 isn't supported ;)
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It is real subtle. A real Looking Glass touch o' class moment.
Hey that rhymes!
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Originally posted by JR2000Z
PCG US gave it 94. :blah:
The mag in the link is PCG US...
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Originally posted by Turnsky
the PC-Powerplay Review is out, aussies, check it out..
the cool thing was, the review score was 96, exactly the same score they gave Freespace 2.. :D
New tagline;
"Doom 3 - officially as good as Freespace !"
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That'll attract the gamers. :D
Saw some new posters for D3 at my local EB. The Doom Marine looks kind of... more... lame. :p
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Originally posted by Lonestar
System Shock 2? never played it either.
Every gamer who likes a good story and a good immersive experience should try out SS2. Especially now that it's got some model and texture upgrades out that really spiff up the graphics.
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I agree with Lonestar. I never understood what makes people like these kind of games. It's almost a game for the weak minded (no offense) that despise the fact that certain games actually require you to think.
Sure, one or two games is fun but after that it's nothing but the same over and over again.The atmosphere might be nice but that just doesn't cut it in a game for me. Nor does nice graphics. If a game doesn't have a decent story, it sucks IMO. And FPS games most definately don't have decent stories. It's "Your on this team, kill the other team" or "Kill everything in sight". No matter how nice the package is. :doubt:
Anyway, that's just my opinion. But to me it'll always be a brainless, uninteresting game. :ick:
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I love when people pass judgment on games that haven't even been released yet...
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Originally posted by Tiara
If a game doesn't have a decent story, it sucks IMO.
This just in-- Tiara claims chess sucks. Film at 11.
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Originally posted by 01010
I love when people pass judgment on games that haven't even been released yet...
I didn't pass judgement on Doom III in particular. Where did you see me say that in that post? hmmm? :doubt: Really, think before you post something equally lame as your las post.
But seriously, do you really really really think that this will be ANYTHING different from the other releases only with nicer graphics and a bit more atmosphere? :doubt:
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
This just in-- Tiara claims chess sucks. Film at 11.
:rolleyes:
But at least you need to THINK in this game. that makes it fun. FPS games = SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT! KILL KILL KILL! :doubt:
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Right. So football, baseball, rugby, darts, bowling, etc. all suck then?
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Originally posted by Tiara
I didn't pass judgement on Doom III in particular. Where did you see me say that in that post? hmmm? :doubt: Really, think before you post something equally lame as your las post.
But seriously, do you really really really think that this will be ANYTHING different from the other releases only with nicer graphics and a bit more atmosphere? :doubt:
It was gentle ribbing, chill out :) Like I say, I'll wait and see, I don't play id games for story though, I play to be awed at what games will be looking like in a year or two's time. Also, Doom3 has more than just a little atmosphere going by the alpha, it positively scared the **** outta me when I played it, and that is why I am buying this game. By all accounts too the story, though straightforward, is supposed to be very tightly written.
I just want to play it badly.
Also, it seems (hopefully) that FPS are moving away from straight out blast em ups with the advances in game engines, Far Cry for example is more than just a run and gun, in fact, that's probably the quickest way of getting blown to crap in the game.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Right. So football, baseball, rugby, darts, bowling, etc. all suck then?
Yes.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Right. So football, baseball, rugby, darts, bowling, etc. all suck then?
Football -> Tactics
Baseball -> Tactics
Rugby -> Tactics
Darts -> Math (Yes you need math :nervous: )
Bowling -> Well, this sport does suck :p
You need at least half a brain to ply these games. You need to be able to think and not shoot everything in sight like a mindless moron with a gun. Besides, this is my opinion so I really don't give a f*ck what you think. If you like it, it's your choice. I just don't like brainless games. Period.
Ow, and what is it lately on HLP. Everytime anyone has an opinion some rabid fanbois or fundies come running at you. I said in my first post that it was MY OPINION. :doubt:
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Aww, gimme a hug!
No not you you drooling zombie! AIIE!! *BLAM BLAM*
*phew*
I think Half-Life 2 will be better 'tho :)
But Doom 3 will definitely be bloody scary.
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Originally posted by Tiara
You need at least half a brain to ply these games. You need to be able to think and not shoot everything in sight like a mindless moron with a gun.
Spoken like someone who hasn't played an FPS since Wolfenstein 3D.
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If it makes me shat my pants like AvP2 did as Marine in the first few levels I played, than I'll be sufficiently happy.
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I haven't been scared by a game since Resident Evil 2 came out for N64.
I'd like to see a game scare me again.
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PCG Swe gave it 90%
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But does it still not have a "Use" button?
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I agree with Tiara. No Story, Or crappy story makes for a suckie game. Call of Duty was a good story, for an FPS game. Veyr exhilirating Single player experience. If you want a close encounter of WW2 in europe get this game!
Same for Medal Of Honor. Quite interesting how your missions turn out sometimes. Its not as glamorous as COD tho.
Im not saying Doom 3 will suck, only that if its just mindless killing it will get very uninteresting very quickly.
Oh another game i like, is Neverwinter Nights, HOTU, man that game was fun. Just beat it last nite as a wizard/PaleMaster!
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Spoken like someone who hasn't played an FPS since Wolfenstein 3D.
Seriously Zylon, fill up that void in your cranium. :doubt:
I've played more. UT2004, HALO, etc. And one by one they all proved to be boring after maybe an hour of play. That is not what I'm looking for in a game.
Hell, Voyager: Elite Force is a better game then HALO, UT2004 and probably Doom III combined due to the simple fact that it at least had a story that was mildly intruiging and made you think a little bit.
And I'm not even talking about the gruesomely immature online community of virtually ANY FPS game. :ick:
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most of games i play have story but also i play FPS games because I like sometimes play THEM (and i would really get bored if i only played games that have Good story)
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Originally posted by 01010
Also, Doom3 has more than just a little atmosphere going by the alpha, it positively scared the **** outta me when I played it, and that is why I am buying this game.
The most nasty critters in the alpha I think were the Imps. I still hate those things, leaping out at you... It's really nasty when there's a few of them and you're still rearming your shotgun.
The zombies weren't so bad because a good head shot would take them down. The pinkies and the big demon thing weren't too bad either because of automatic weapons. Those imps are just nasty and brutal though...
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Sometimes it's just fun to play a mindless blast fest.
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do they ever explain were the demons are comeing from, or how/why people are turning into zombies?
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I might until the demo of it is released but HL2 is the one :yes:
Hmmm system shock 2 was brilliant, excellent story, inovative control system and gameplay that made you want to play it to the end.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
do they ever explain were the demons are comeing from, or how/why people are turning into zombies?
Judging by the trailer, it's the same explanation used in the first Doom.
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IIRC, they're coming straight out a portal from the bowels of Hell. Or a Martian moon. Or something...
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From Deimos wasn't it???
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Originally posted by Bri_Dog
Sometimes it's just fun to play a mindless blast fest.
I never said some mindless blasting can't be fun at all :drevil: But it's just not something that'll grip me for hours at a time. It mostly goes like this for me with FPS game;
Play for an hour > leave it on the shelf for a week > play it an hour > leave it on the shelf for a week > etc
There is just nothing in these games that really keeps me going. it's good when you want to set your brain capacity to 0 for a while but thats about it. No plot twists, no enticing story, no interesting characters, etc.
Anyway, I think I made my point so I'll just leave you FPS fanbois alone with the game :p
IIRC, they're coming straight out a portal from the bowels of Hell. Or a Martian moon. Or something...
I knew Phobos was teh dust bunny from Hell!
:p
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:D
Btw Tiara, I have to say that I empathise - FPSes were never my thing. But I did think Halo had some decent twists, plot and characters - not up to your standard, I suppose. :p ;)
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Originally posted by Tiara
There is just nothing in these games that really keeps me going. it's good when you want to set your brain capacity to 0 for a while but thats about it. No plot twists, no enticing story, no interesting characters, etc.
If that's what you want, then read a book.
What you're doing is like claiming that ice cream sucks because it's not steak.
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I don't like FPS games much there is only few i like or gonna get
(HALO2 and HL2 are one of those then there is that Doom3 but I want try demo first) I keep my mind open when i buy games because I buy only few games in year (2-4)
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:nervous:
Oh, right. That steak. Anyway, good point. One of the worst things I find with my friends who dabble in all sorts of media (short films, comics, prose, whatever's under the sun) and try to make something do the job suited to another medium. Square Peg Round Hole Syndrome.
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i just want the demo to see if my computer can run doom 3 :p
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oh god..I just saw the review, just saw the shots.
Its a tough decision, between this, Halo 2 and HL2....holy crap......
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
If that's what you want, then read a book.
Do that trick again, Zylon; the one where you open your mouth and your head disappears.
Seriously, if you don't agree with me, fine. Try a good RPG for a change. Those kind of games can keep me going for days in a row just because of the story alone. Or a good RTS.
What you're doing is like claiming that ice cream sucks because it's not steak.
And what you're claiming is; 'FPS is mother, FPS is father'. Well, NEWS BREAK! It isn't. :doubt:
Don’t you ever get tired shooting yourself in the foot every time you open your mouth?
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Originally posted by Setekh
:D
But I did think Halo had some decent twists, plot and characters - not up to your standard, I suppose. :p ;)
Ow, Halo wasn't a bad game. Not at all. I play it from time to time. But it's just not enough to grip me for a long time. :)
But I still think the whole hype over Halo was the worst hype ever. It's better then your average FPS but certainly not that special.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Ow, Halo wasn't a bad game. Not at all. I play it from time to time. But it's just not enough to grip me for a long time. :)
But I still think the whole hype over Halo was the worst hype ever. It's better then your average FPS but certainly not that special.
well, yeah.. Halo was good, it helped take the stigma out of console FPS's but, as good as the story was, it "wasn't that special" on the PC in terms of being revolutionary.
with doom three, what carmack seeks to do is scare the bejesus out of you, the setting of the first game is perfect for that..
now, all you fans of "twitch gameplay" may not like that.. well, all i gotta say is wait for serious sam 2 ;)
but, personally, i like something a little cerebal, and to have my nerves on edge..
two games i can think of that did that is System Shock 2, and Undying.:nod:
it's the atmosphere..
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Originally posted by Tiara
Seriously, if you don't agree with me, fine. Try a good RPG for a change. Those kind of games can keep me going for days in a row just because of the story alone. Or a good RTS.
Suggest a few good free ones then :D
*has been looking for a few good RPGs, but rarely finding any....
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Originally posted by Turnsky
well, yeah.. Halo was good, it helped take the stigma out of console FPS's but, as good as the story was, it "wasn't that special" on the PC in terms of being revolutionary.
with doom three, what carmack seeks to do is scare the bejesus out of you, the setting of the first game is perfect for that..
now, all you fans of "twitch gameplay" may not like that.. well, all i gotta say is wait for serious sam 2 ;)
but, personally, i like something a little cerebal, and to have my nerves on edge..
two games i can think of that did that is System Shock 2, and Undying.:nod:
it's the atmosphere..
You want atmosphere? Try Silent Hill 3 :D:drevil:
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Originally posted by Singh
Suggest a few good free ones then :D
*has been looking for a few good RPGs, but rarely finding any....
Free? :p
Anyway, what kind of RPG are you looking for? Japan style (ALA Final Fantasy) or Western style (ALA Baldur's Gate)?
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Originally posted by Tiara
Free? :p
Anyway, what kind of RPG are you looking for? Japan style (ALA Final Fantasy) or Western style (ALA Baldur's Gate)?
Summoner 2..;)
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Originally posted by Tiara
Free? :p
Anyway, what kind of RPG are you looking for? Japan style (ALA Final Fantasy) or Western style (ALA Baldur's Gate)?
Errr....baldur's gate? O_o
Ive played FF, its pretty good, but i'd rather try something not so fantasy-ish (maybe some sci-fi).
Ach, another reason to begin work on the HLP RPG, dont ya think :P
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Originally posted by Singh
Errr....baldur's gate? O_o
ACK! You don't know BG? :eek2:
:p
Ive played FF, its pretty good, but i'd rather try something not so fantasy-ish (maybe some sci-fi).
Fallout for you then....
Ach, another reason to begin work on the HLP RPG, dont ya think :P
no :p
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Originally posted by Singh
Errr....baldur's gate? O_o
:eek2: you never heard Baldurs Gate? jeez:p
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Originally posted by Tiara
ACK! You don't know BG? :eek2:
:p
Fallout for you then....
no :p
No, surprisingly i never heard of it.......
Fallout? Ok, now I know that I have to wander outside of HLP occasionally :rolleyes:
And why not? You were so enthutiastic about it before.......would me writing the plot and stuff encourage you back? :P
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Originally posted by Singh
Errr....baldur's gate? O_o
Ive played FF, its pretty good, but i'd rather try something not so fantasy-ish (maybe some sci-fi).
Ach, another reason to begin work on the HLP RPG, dont ya think :P
Baldur's gate series
Icewind Dale Series
Fallout Series
Morrowind
Kotor 1 (and 2's coming soon)
Summoner 1,2 (2 is PS2 only :blah: )
Arcanum
Planscape: Torment
Diablo series
Neverwinter Nights
all i can think of off the top of my head :p
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Originally posted by Turnsky
Baldur's gate series
Icewind Dale Series
Fallout Series
Morrowind
Kotor 1 (and 2's coming soon)
Summoner 1,2 (2 is PS2 only :blah: )
Arcanum
Planscape: Torment
Diablo series
Neverwinter Nights
all i can think of off the top of my head :p
Ive only heard of Kotor, Diablo and NWN (have the last one with me, but no PC to run it).....
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Originally posted by Singh
Ive only heard of Kotor, Diablo and NWN (have the last one with me, but no PC to run it).....
buy one, then :p (or at least upgrade the hell outta your old one)
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Originally posted by Turnsky
buy one, then :p (or at least upgrade the hell outta your old one)
you rich bugger :p
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Originally posted by Singh
you rich bugger :p
:lol: :lol:
sorry singh, but i find that highly amusing, since you've prolly got a more disposable income than me.:p
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Originally posted by Tiara
Seriously, if you don't agree with me, fine. Try a good RPG for a change. Those kind of games can keep me going for days in a row just because of the story alone. Or a good RTS.
I think modern games put too much emphasis on story. Would Monopoly be any better if it spun some nonsence about gangsters and protection rackets ?
As for FPS all being the same, bar nicer graphics (or whatever) , that could be said of all games, of all types of game. Sure, Doom 3 will essentially be the same as the original, but boiling down the originals strong points and doin' em better is the aim there. Is FF7 any different to any of the previous titles ?
I also think the FPS trem is out of date. Doom, SS2, Deus Ex, Halo et all use a FPS view but otherwise have little in common. Deus Ex and SS2 both have strong RPG elements.
And no one had better quote Final Fantasy as an example of games with good storys, for the sake of their own credability.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
:lol: :lol:
sorry singh, but i find that highly amusing, since you've prolly got a more disposable income than me.:p
Hey, I get only $350 singapore dollars a month to spend, along with whatever my parents can afford. I can barely pay my phone bills, much less afford a new PC.
heh, building this one cost too much as it is :P
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Find a friend who's got some of those titles and borrow them for a while. Give them a spin, then tell us if you'd like to form a Brotherhood of Steel. ;)
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Originally posted by magatsu1
I think modern games put too much emphasis on story. Would Monopoly be any better if it spun some nonsence about gangsters and protection rackets ?
On the Monopoly issue, probably yes :D Just kidding. But in a game as Monopoly you at the very least need to use your brain. And it's a table top game.
the PC version is kinda fun because it isn't senseless.
As for FPS all being the same, bar nicer graphics (or whatever) , that could be said of all games, of all types of game. Sure, Doom 3 will essentially be the same as the original, but boiling down the originals strong points and doin' em better is the aim there. Is FF7 any different to any of the previous titles ?
So, basically you have a souped up version of the original Doom? Once again, sounds dull as hell.
As for Final Fantasy, every single time it's a completely new world (barring FFX and X-2) with a completely new story, well worked out characters AND improved graphics + gameplay with each new part. Hell, in FF:Tactics its a tactical game as much as an RPG. Or in FF-X they renewed the entire battle system. In FF:X-2 it was renewed and improved once again. FF XI will be multiplayer.
Not just improved gameplay and graphics like Doom.
I also think the FPS trem is out of date. Doom, SS2, Deus Ex, Halo et all use a FPS view but otherwise have little in common. Deus Ex and SS2 both have strong RPG elements.
I'm not saying ALL FPS games are crap. Just the mainstream FPS games such as DOOM and Unreal. Each new game is basically the same as the previous with very little innovation in the gameplay part. The first parts were fun because it was new. But now they are just milkingh out a practically ancient concept.
A good example of a good FPS game is Rogue Spear and the likes IMO. Tactical FPS games are fun to play because you don't senselessly shoot people up without thinking.
And no one had better quote Final Fantasy as an example of games with good storys, for the sake of their own credability.
Matter of taste :doubt: just like my taste is that mainstream FPS games suck arse because they are basically just the same as always.
I happen to like the Final Fantasy worlds and stories. If you don't, then thats your choice. It's your perogative. :)
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Originally posted by Tiara
And what you're claiming is; 'FPS is mother, FPS is father'.
Oh? Please point out where I've represented that sentiment. I eagerly await your frothing, gnashing, borderline-unintelligible response.
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Tiara:
can't find any fault in your reasoning there, but inovation for inovation's sake seems to me like a waste of time. You don't need to reinvent the wheel everytime. Taking the core appeal of a game and focusing on it, taking the same premise but with new bad guys in new combinations in more realisied worlds.
the only problem with story driven games is they provide only limited play time. You haved to admit, there is limited play time in an RPG once you've seen everything. Games can be abstract, but the industry has become obcessed with making the game equivilant of books and movies.
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Originally posted by magatsu1
the only problem with story driven games is they provide only limited play time. You haved to admit, there is limited play time in an RPG once you've seen everything. Games can be abstract, but the industry has become obcessed with making the game equivilant of books and movies.
70 hours or more of content isn't enough? Anyhow, I reread books tons of times and it's still quite good the second, third or nth time. The same goes for RPG games.
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Couldn't say how many hours I spent playing Mario Kart, or Doom, or whatever. All I'm saying is games too often try to tell a story (I mean does Puzzle Bobble or any other Tetris stylee-clone really need a story mode ?). Telling a story isn't the be all and end all of games.
FS1 & 2 only had paper thin stories. The sequel provided more of the same but with improvements in Graphics, Sound (especially IMO) and, to a degree, gameplay. Volition didn't feel the need to add a load of charicters and storyline because it wasn't necessary.
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Originally posted by magatsu1
Tiara:
can't find any fault in your reasoning there, but inovation for inovation's sake seems to me like a waste of time. You don't need to reinvent the wheel everytime. Taking the core appeal of a game and focusing on it, taking the same premise but with new bad guys in new combinations in more realisied worlds.
So, you are basically saying they can produce EXACTLY the same game over and over again only with better graphics and you're fine with it? That's what you get with a serious lack of innovations.
Taking the core appeal and building on it is indeed the cornerstone of any sequel. Note that I said 'building on it' instead of 'focusing on it' because if you just focus on it you'll have a copy of the previous part. you need to build on it. Actually improve the game. Not just copy it and making it look better like with the DOOM series.
Final Fantasy does take the core and buyilds on it. A new world, new character, new story, better graphics, etc. yet at the same time they keep the very core of the game intact. once again, games like DOOM only focus on the core of the game and improve only certain aspects. They don't innovate at all. They just lather and repeat.
the only problem with story driven games is they provide only limited play time. You haved to admit, there is limited play time in an RPG once you've seen everything. Games can be abstract, but the industry has become obcessed with making the game equivilant of books and movies. [/B]
Exactly what Kam said. 70+ hours, excellent replayability due to randomization in the world, etc. And i too reread books and rewatch movies.
Now, FPS games don't have 70+ hours of compelling story in them. More like 2 minutes of the intro and that's about it. They don't have detailed chgaracters with actual personalities besides the "KIIIIIIILLLLLLL!'-personality. They have actual bad guys that don't just have the 'zombie'-personality.
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I have no problem with so called "run and gun" FPS games, even those that don't bring anything new to the table. For example, everyone considered Unreal 2 to be a POS, but I found it entertaining. Nothing really new, but the story was OK and the gameplay was fun. I have the same expectations for Doom 3. I actually like shorter games (as in, not 200 hours like Baldur's Gate), becase if a game is too long, I loose interest before the end. Usually, games which everyone else slags for being too short (Max Payne 1+2, Splinter Cell etc) are just right for me. I would consider 30 hours to be optimal.
Sure, innovation is great, but its not a pre-requisite for a fun game. I love games that innovate, but I'm not going to pass up a game just because it doesn't.
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Well, as for the FPSs without a story, there are plenty of them that really make you use your brain. Well, maybe not alot, but there are enough. Need I mention Infiltration for UT99? Why, that game is so involved with tactics and stuff that it scares most people away, because it's not arcadey enough. Oh, I remember when INF was a brainless reaction shooter, but it has evolved into being the most realistic shooter EVER, even more than OFP (IMO, ofcourse). Speaking of which, OFP's story had so many plotholes and stupid ideas, etc, that it was a big turnoff. However the gameplay definately made up for it. My $0.02. Check these games out if you havent heard of them.
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IMO the first DOOMs were missing a very important feature:
The JUMP ability
I hope that's fixed in DOOM III.
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If I were the type of person to have a sig, that would be going in it.
Classic.
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Halo = Christ, reborn.
:thepimp:
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Originally posted by Tiara
So, you are basically saying they can produce EXACTLY the same game over and over again only with better graphics and you're fine with it? That's what you get with a serious lack of innovations.
That's essentially what FS2 was to FS1, or to a degree, Halo to say, Doom. Not every game has to be full of gameplay innovations. Halo was essentially a standard FPS, it had some trickery like vehicles and two gun limits, but it was the quality of the enviroments and the AI smike 'n' mirrors that made it stand out. Ofcourse, games which strive to push the boundaries are just as important.
Taking Doom (or Quake2 perhaps) , but making it more atmospheric, the locations more realisied, the overall experience more intense is obviously the aim of D3 and that can be just as good as an innovative game such as Deus Ex.
Oh, and I usually skip intros anyway. How many hours ofrepeated gameplay does an RPG offer ? I still play Doom on ocassion, even now.
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Originally posted by magatsu1
That's essentially what FS2 was to FS1, or to a degree, Halo to say, Doom. Not every game has to be full of gameplay innovations. Halo was essentially a standard FPS, it had some trickery like vehicles and two gun limits, but it was the quality of the enviroments and the AI smike 'n' mirrors that made it stand out. Ofcourse, games which strive to push the boundaries are just as important.
FS2 had a new continueing story, Doom does not. Halo had a semi story, Doom had none. Bad analogies to start with.
A game needs innovation to be good enough to survive longer then a month. Every time a DOOM or UT comes out, you hear about it actively for a month but then, all of a sudden, it stops and all you hear from time to time; "Are ya up for an MP game?". :doubt:
But if a game is innovative it will have new stuff, new story, new gameplay, etc. it'll keep the game alive a lot longer and a lot more fun in the long run.
Taking Doom (or Quake2 perhaps) , but making it more atmospheric, the locations more realisied, the overall experience more intense is obviously the aim of D3 and that can be just as good as an innovative game such as Deus Ex.
Again you talk about atmosphere and graphics alone. That isn't enough to make a sequel a classic. Again; it'll just be exactly the same only in a new package.
Oh, and I usually skip intros anyway. How many hours ofrepeated gameplay does an RPG offer ? I still play Doom on ocassion, even now.
Heh, I bought FF7 about 5 years ago and I still play it at times. RPGs get dull after time as well, but thats with ANY game. But before it gets dull you have entire worlds to explore, each time you start a new game you can do it differently, etc. I've spent more time playing FF7 then I've spent FS1 + Fs2 + HW + HW:A + HW2 combined.
And then you have about 3 other newer FF games with entirely new worlds, characters, graphics, atmosphere, etc that do exactly the same (innovate the game each time around).
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Originally posted by Tiara
FS2 had a new continueing story, Doom does not. Halo had a semi story, Doom had none. Bad analogies to start with.
A game needs innovation to be good enough to survive longer then a month. Every time a DOOM or UT comes out, you hear about it actively for a month but then, all of a sudden, it stops and all you hear from time to time; "Are ya up for an MP game?". :doubt:
But if a game is innovative it will have new stuff, new story, new gameplay, etc. it'll keep the game alive a lot longer and a lot more fun in the long run.
Again you talk about atmosphere and graphics alone. That isn't enough to make a sequel a classic. Again; it'll just be exactly the same only in a new package.
Heh, I bought FF7 about 5 years ago and I still play it at times. RPGs get dull after time as well, but thats with ANY game. But before it gets dull you have entire worlds to explore, each time you start a new game you can do it differently, etc. I've spent more time playing FF7 then I've spent FS1 + Fs2 + HW + HW:A + HW2 combined.
And then you have about 3 other newer FF games with entirely new worlds, characters, graphics, atmosphere, etc that do exactly the same (innovate the game each time around).
Tiara has a point here, but what's being done about Doom 3, is that ID are taking the /setting/ twisting it, giving it a storyline, etc.. and attempting to make a game to make you wish you wore brown pants..;)
Doom 3, altho by name, is not necessarily like the previous Doom installments gameplay-wise..
it's like how Different Descent: Freespace was from its descent namesake.
It's not like the other doom(s), folks.. this one be claustraphobic. so don't expect to nuke several hundred enemies in one go with a BFG, okay?
what makes games fun, is how much time you spend playing it.. y'know.. time flies on pass without you even realising it, and then you suddenly come to the disturbing realisation that it's dawn, and you've spent the past 8 hours playing a game almost obsessively.:p
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Hey, I am in no way claiming that Doom III is bad mostly because I haven't played it (duh). But the premise isn't that, and here is that word again, innovative. At all. Yes, it's improved over the older games. but at heart it remains the same game.
No matter how much you change graphics and atmophere, if you don't have a story to change like Doom and yopu don't radically change the gameplay, you might as well keep playing a previous sequel.
Well, i'll be sure to pick up a copy at my friend's house and I'll give you my review. :D:p
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Originally posted by Tiara
Hey, I am in no way claiming that Doom III is bad mostly because I haven't played it (duh). But the premise isn't that, and here is that word again, innovative. At all. Yes, it's improved over the older games. but at heart it remains the same game.
No matter how much you change graphics and atmophere, if you don't have a story to change like Doom and yopu don't radically change the gameplay, you might as well keep playing a previous sequel.
Well, i'll be sure to pick up a copy at my friend's house and I'll give you my review. :D:p
well there ya go..
that said, folks.. the graphics of doom 3, whilst cool and all, have been done already..
Far-cry and that Chronicles of Riddick game on the Xbox (which is quite fun, i'd must admit)
and some unreal tech games as well.
but, from what i saw of the trailer, the character animations, level design, and the way their faces move realistically are something to be reckoned with..
the fact is, that Doom3 is a different game at its core, and i can't wait to get my hands on it. :)
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Originally posted by Turnsky
the fact is, that Doom3 is a different game at its core, and i can't wait to get my hands on it. :)
But you only described graphics and atmosphere. What has really changed that would make it such a great game and/or any better then UT?
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Originally posted by Tiara
But you only described graphics and atmosphere. What has really changed that would make it such a great game and/or any better then UT?
aside from the fact that it has a dedicated single-player element to it?;)
and, it's cramped level design is quite different from anything else i've seen with their huge outdoor enviroments, it's a different direction entierly for an FPS.:nod:
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Originally posted by Turnsky
aside from the fact that it has a dedicated single-player element to it?;)
This, I gotta see.
Ever played Voayager: Elite Force? if it's anything like that i might even like it :D
and, it's cramped level design is quite different from anything else i've seen with their huge outdoor enviroments, it's a different direction entierly for an FPS.:nod:
This basically goes into the graphics and atmosphere department :p But, i'll take a quick look-see once I get my copy off my friend. :D
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Originally posted by Tiara
This, I gotta see.
Ever played Voayager: Elite Force? if it's anything like that i might even like it :D
got both, even have the messenger bag that came with EF2 ;)
This basically goes into the graphics and atmosphere department :p But, i'll take a quick look-see once I get my copy off my friend. :D [/B]
yeah, tell us what you think of it..
i'm getting it, that's a certainity, but i'm gonna get the demo first, just to see if i can get this old heap to run it.:p
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Originally posted by Tiara
But you only described graphics and atmosphere. What has really changed that would make it such a great game and/or any better then UT?
the point is the gameplay doesn't need to change. The gameplay can be improved with better level design, more cunning AI etc but the basic premise has been the same since Doom, or Wolfenstein (or whatever) and that's always worked.
Don't why you're pimping Elite Force, it was okay but not that good. You should try System Shock2, it's more First-Person-RPG than no brain Doom.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
and, it's cramped level design is quite different from anything else i've seen with their huge outdoor enviroments, it's a different direction entierly for an FPS.:nod:
If by "entirely different" you mean "System Shock with a fresh coat of paint", then I agree.
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I wlways thought corridors were the norm untill fairly recently. Be interested to see how they do the transition from Marine Sci-fi to hell though. Anyone else think the original Doom's hell backgrounds (just a layer of fire) was really cool ? Simple, but cool.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
If by "entirely different" you mean "System Shock with a fresh coat of paint", then I agree.
Sssshhhhhh!.. shodan might hear you! :p
unlike the shock series. what you can't see, /can/ hurt you. ;)
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This is one game I am really looking forward to. Doom was awesome back in 1995 for the graphics and sheer fun factor, although this game will have to do a lot more if it is going to live up to the hype. The map design is something I consider particularly important, as I tend to spend some time exploring maps in detail in singleplayer FPS games, and Doom 3 is supposed to very good with that, although they say the game is a bit short. The price is higher than average but I always get games from ebay anyway, where they are much cheaper and still unused.
I think FPS games have been getting steadily better over the years. The graphics have always improved, level design and sound started getting dramatically better in the post-doom years and very recently the physics has also begun advancing. Moddability has also always been great in these games. The storylines haven't really gotten better with time, but there have always been a mix of excellent and crappy stories in games of any genre except maybe adventure games. The AI has improved immensely, although this is the one area where FPSs (and all games, for that matter) still leave something to be desired. UT2004 probably has the best I have seen but it's still a long way from a good human player. The standards are especially low in FPS games where the AI has to do things other than fighting (e.g. the Thief and Deus Ex series), although on the flip side this can lead to some comic effects.
A game does not have to be revolutionary to be great though, and there are games that are very innovative but still not good. FS and FS2 were hardly revolutionary; it was the heavy polish to the little things everywhere rather than major new ideas that made these games so good.
Also, how exactly is a game supposed to be scary? I never quite understood this. Immersive, sure, but scary? FPSs sometimes throw sudden and unexpected things at you, but you get used to it after a while, and some games really tend to overdo it. I always play games in pitch dark (monitor contrasts look nicer) and with headphones on but still have never come across anything genuinely scary.
Some comments on particular games:
I found Halo to be decent by PC standards but nothing special. It had an okay story and balanced gameplay but the level design was atrociously repetitive. My brother bought it though, so I don't care. :D Half Life was a very good game but I personally didn't find it that great compared to other FPSs around its time, such as Unreal and System Shock 2.
Deus Ex is unique in a way and is probably one of my favorite games ever, not only for the things usually talked about but also for the sheer amount of unintentional wackiness that can occur within the game's otherwise serious and realistic setting. I have spent as much time fooling around in that game as actually playing it and I have played through it at least ten times.
Also, does anyone here have Thief 3/deadly shadows? Is it good? (I have thief 2 and enjoyed that a lot) I would have already gotten this game but I think it uses the same engine as Deus Ex 2 and my biggest gripe with that game was its horribly unoptimized engine. Was it also simultaneously made for PC and xbox? That is what really killed DX2 in my opinion, although it still had some strong points.
Ace: The D1/D2 imps usually came in big bunches but they were really easy since they invariably hit each other accidentally, got mad and killed each other off. Do these guys come in large hordes in D3 as well? I doubt they would get angry like that this time around, but it might be possible to get them to kill each other by mistake. :D
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although they say the game is a bit short
I think 24 hours is enough in Doom3
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Halo = Christ, reborn.
:thepimp:
I'm just about certain that's a heresy. :p
Anyway, just saw the D3 trailer. Yeah, reminds me of the Shock series - far more confined (as you said, Turnsky) and dark.
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man I hope the new doom baddies still are alowed to fight each other, that was some of the best fun, just seeing how many you could kill without fireing a single shot,
just stand here that cyberdemon fires his missle, and hit's the goat guy thingy and they'll all fight each other untill there dead.
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exactly, watching those monster fights was one of my favorite parts of the game. :D
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:lol: I remember the goat guy thingy well. ;) Yeah, if they've taken that feature out of the monster AI, it will be a sad day indeed. :p
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Was quite funny watching them all kill each other :lol:
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Leaked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3527332.stm).....
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[color=66ff00]Yeah I saw it on a certain prominent bittorrent site.
Personally I'll be buying this as soon as it hits the store shelves, I normally try something out before buying but in this case the ratings and the effort has convinced me that it will be hard to go wrong with D3. :yes:
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Originally posted by Turnsky
unlike the shock series. what you can't see, /can/ hurt you. ;)
I see you've forgotten the Invisible Mutants.
Originally posted by CP5670
The D1/D2 imps usually came in big bunches but they were really easy since they invariably hit each other accidentally, got mad and killed each other off.
Nope, it's a bit more complicated than that (http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3WC48.84%24gD6.22144%40sapphire.mtt.net&output=gplain), but suffice to say that Imps don't generally kill each other off.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
I see you've forgotten the Invisible Mutants.
never played shock one.
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Heretic!
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Heretic!
and before you ask, i've played shock two..:p
i'm looking forward to Doom3 'cause it'd better be an experience in its own right in other words, some parts should scare the crap outta me.;)
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Originally posted by Tiara
Seriously Zylon, fill up that void in your cranium. :doubt:
I've played more. UT2004, HALO, etc. And one by one they all proved to be boring after maybe an hour of play. That is not what I'm looking for in a game.
Hell, Voyager: Elite Force is a better game then HALO, UT2004 and probably Doom III combined due to the simple fact that it at least had a story that was mildly intruiging and made you think a little bit.
And I'm not even talking about the gruesomely immature online community of virtually ANY FPS game. :ick:
No-no-no, we're talking about great shooters (not that there's anything wrong with UT2k4, which I'm addicted to, multiplayer only, mind ya, and tacticts, oh boy does it have). SS2, NOLF (the original, not the ok sequel), Undying, the Max Payne series.
You can have a good story and a good FPS. Take SS2, it has a story that rivals FS2, the atmosphere complete with good eerie music that makes the game immersive, and you sure definately can't go around blasting everything that moves. The same with NOLF, MP, Undying, et. al.
And from what I've seen/heard, DIII will be more SS2, less UT2k4
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Well Doom3 had better be up to spec - I just pre-ordered it. Fingers crossed...
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Yeah, Doom 3 seems to borrow a number of elements from System Shock 2, such as the PDAs and audio files you can find.
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Originally posted by CP5670
Also, does anyone here have Thief 3/deadly shadows? Is it good? (I have thief 2 and enjoyed that a lot) I would have already gotten this game but I think it uses the same engine as Deus Ex 2 and my biggest gripe with that game was its horribly unoptimized engine. Was it also simultaneously made for PC and xbox? That is what really killed DX2 in my opinion, although it still had some strong points.
Ace: The D1/D2 imps usually came in big bunches but they were really easy since they invariably hit each other accidentally, got mad and killed each other off.
Thief 3 is like Deus Ex2 also in the way it was an okay game in it's own right but in way did it build upon (or even match really) the predecessor. The light effects were quite cool, such as guards carrying torches, but the general feel and especially the presentation was real poor. I thought the quasi-religious texts being reduced to loading screen fodder really sucked too.
Quake ("1") was probably the king for getting bad guys to fight one-another, especially hell knights and those weird things that jumped at you (forget their name)
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hey, anyone in the mood to send me a few hundred, for upgrades and whatnot? C'mon, you're all rolling in cash, I know it. Especially the admins. You've been selling member's email addresses to those spam lists, haven't you? Thats why I keep getting junk mail. Don't try to deny it, just get me a Radeon X800 and all will be forgiven ;) ;)
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Just picked up Doom 3. It is very much SS2. Very little Doom apart from the weapons and enemies. And from what I can tell so far the story is much improved.
The gameplay itself makes me think the title Half-Life on Mars would make more sense.
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Thief 3 is like Deus Ex2 also in the way it was an okay game in it's own right but in way did it build upon (or even match really) the predecessor. The light effects were quite cool, such as guards carrying torches, but the general feel and especially the presentation was real poor. I thought the quasi-religious texts being reduced to loading screen fodder really sucked too.
That sucks, it's the same feeling I had with Deus Ex 2. And most of the things wrong with these games can be traced to the concurrent console development. Deus Ex 2 also had great looking per-pixel lighting, but it made the game totally unplayable on most video cards except at 640x480 due to its terrible optimization. If Thief 3 uses the same lighting I better hold off on that game until I get that 6800 GT.
I picked up DX2 for $14 off ebay when it had just come out though, so for that price it was pretty good. I can probably find T3 at the same price there if I wait around a bit.
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I played the x-box version which I presume is as good as it would get. Glad I didn't upgrade my pc as I had planned to at the start of the year
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Thief 3 runs a lot better than DX2.
Anyway, last night I checked a few stores. None of them would have it in until Wednesday for regular sale, since I refuse to pre-order.
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Originally posted by Zakalwe
Yeah, Doom 3 seems to borrow a number of elements from System Shock 2, such as the PDAs and audio files you can find.
System Shock 1 had those elements as well. Since the big difference between 1 and 2 was that 2 was a full-fledged RPG, it would probably be more accurate to say that Doom 3 borrows from SS1 (which is ironic since SS1 came out barely a year after the original Doom).
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Doom3 is the scariest game I've ever played. ****ing hell.
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Every 5 feet a monster comes out of the wall/ceiling/air duct and starts slashing you. :shaking:
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
Every 5 feet a monster comes out of the wall/ceiling/air duct and starts slashing you. :shaking:
sounds like easterhouse on a weeknight.
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Ok, I just played it and I stand by my previous assesment of the game. Besides some rather nice scare tactics the game isn't really that special and certainly not interesting enough for me to keep playing. Played it for 2 hours straight but really got tired of it. Too monotone for me (as I expected it to be).
Although I must admit it's better then what I had expected. Especially the beginning. But after that it dumbs down IMO. :)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Leaked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3527332.stm).....
I see they didn't waste any time. :blah:
Btw, welcome to HLP, Zakalwe. :)
:welcome:
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okay, got my hands on doom 3, and i like, gotta be a tad careful with the ammo conservation... oh and... enemies in your face = bad.
what really surprised me, is the fact that it runs better on my system than far-cry.. and still looks pretty good.
very surprising for this system
1.8 ghz
256mb ddr (!)
radeon 9000 128mb