Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Kazan on July 28, 2004, 07:17:28 pm

Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 28, 2004, 07:17:28 pm
You heard that right! we fixed FRED2 -- was something so blazingly simple, but for hard to diagnose that it was disgusting.


Builds coming momentarily

[edit] Posted the B-Build with AutoPilot SEXP support and moved the link up here

http://www.deepbluebettas.com/fs2/28072004B_fred2_open_r.zip
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Taristin on July 28, 2004, 07:17:54 pm
You sirs, are gods.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: taylor on July 28, 2004, 07:26:02 pm
You may like what comes next better though.  I'd tell you but my memory isn't what it used to be. ;7
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 28, 2004, 07:29:24 pm
rotfl
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Taristin on July 28, 2004, 07:29:52 pm
I like the sound of that...

Not your ever growing senility, but that there's new stuff coming... :p
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Fractux on July 28, 2004, 07:30:42 pm
Woot!! Great work guys!  :yes: :yes:

Cheers!
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Flipside on July 28, 2004, 07:32:11 pm
W00t! I was just about to start looking for a version of Fred :D

Taylor: :lol:
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: ChronoReverse on July 28, 2004, 07:38:02 pm
If you're saying what I'm thinking you're saying Taylor, I'll be a very happy camper.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 28, 2004, 07:39:36 pm
And HERE'S A FRED BUILD!

http://www.deepbluebettas.com/fs2/28072004B_fred2_open_r.zip

you have to run this build with the -fredhtl argument because there is a null-pointer exception in nonHTL openGL

but oither than that it's A++

(BTW "-mod" works)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 28, 2004, 07:51:43 pm
*Kisses Kazan and Taylor's feet*
YAY!!!!
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 28, 2004, 07:58:36 pm
You can't activate show background thing
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Itsara on July 28, 2004, 08:36:18 pm
I dont know if this happens with anybody else, but when i downloaded it and tried to open it from the folder, the computer gave me an error message and wouldnt let me open it.  I tried downloading it again, and it did the samething.  Anyone have any ideas why its doing this?
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Krackers87 on July 28, 2004, 08:52:26 pm
What exactly is new in this fred v.?
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Bobboau on July 28, 2004, 08:54:19 pm
"an error message"
:wtf:

anyway, you can't open it from the zip, if that's what you did, it has to be extracted to the root FS2 folder
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 28, 2004, 08:54:47 pm
who knows.. when the hell was the last fred build released...

this i know

A) -mod flag
B) -no_warn (supresses warnings) flag
C) -fredhtl (enables htl -- it's required until taylor merges a fix along with the rest of his big code.lib merge this weekend)
D) new sexps [especially the "B" build which i'm updating the link to point to]
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: BlackFish on July 28, 2004, 09:33:06 pm
Sweet. I was planning on making a campaign sometime soon. :yes:
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 28, 2004, 09:35:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ChronoReverse
If you're saying what I'm thinking you're saying Taylor, I'll be a very happy camper.


Wouldn't you like to know........ :drevil:
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Flipside on July 28, 2004, 11:32:48 pm
One tiny problem with this build Kazan, the height indicators still don't seem to be rendering properly on my computer. When I chage the Y position the pointer seems to get a mind of it's own :(
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 28, 2004, 11:46:04 pm
I agree with Flipside.  The vertical elevation is WAY out of position, as are things like dockpoints and paths.  Also, it froze up when I tried to open up a mission.  This bug was around when FRED OGL HTL first started.  In HTL mode, you can only load up a mission that was made in HTL mode... all others will crash it.

That said, I'm glad that SOMEONE is working to get FRED into a useable state.  Keep it up.

Later!
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Singh on July 28, 2004, 11:47:13 pm
new FRED build!! YAY!!
Hopefully this should fix hte problem I keep getting with music and opening missions in FRED (by far the most annoying) :)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: CP5670 on July 28, 2004, 11:54:31 pm
Although it's great to see a new version of this with some new sexps, this still has the display problems that the previous fred2 did (briefing icons, waypoints and height lines; the briefing icons are the main problem). I need to try playing around with the nav stuff though...

The status sexp category is getting really large by the way. Maybe it's worth putting those operators into smaller subgroups like the change operators.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Nuke on July 29, 2004, 01:42:46 am
cool!

have polylimits been increased any?
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: taylor on July 29, 2004, 06:36:52 am
I'm still working on the line alignment problems.  FRED should be working fully in HTL when I'm done with everything.  It's going to take a little time to get all of that working though.  I'll have a go at the briefing icon problem first.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: TopAce on July 29, 2004, 06:41:00 am
This question is not especially related to this new FRED, but what's the number limit of background images I can use in the Background editor?
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: TopAce on July 29, 2004, 06:46:09 am
Some errors I encountered:


And I still haven't started exploring the whole thing deeply.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Flipside on July 29, 2004, 08:04:59 am
Yep, they're being worked on.

One other interesting fact is that I get an error in Vecmat.cpp when I turn on nebulae, it still works, but just throws out some errors. If you need more details on the error, let me know.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: taylor on July 29, 2004, 09:31:02 am
The background bitmaps are rendered differently now that index buffers are implemented.  Not sure why they don't work yet but I'm on it.  They do work in non-HTL though.  Same with wireframes, they are rendered with textures for HTL so they don't show up unless you turn models off.  This will be fixed when the OGL line fixes go in, or it annoys me enough that I bother to turn textures off ;)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: karajorma on July 29, 2004, 12:18:32 pm
Well the crash on exit is gone but so are the wireframes (which actually make things harder with this build).

Still it's nice to see progress.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 29, 2004, 01:36:08 pm
I'm not sure if I'm activating the mod funtion right because it's not working...
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 29, 2004, 02:07:08 pm
"-mod [dir]" just like with normal fs2
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: CP5670 on July 29, 2004, 04:51:52 pm
I can actually see ship wireframes and the jumpnodes fine. The ship LODs are kind of messed up though, so maybe it should be changed so that the lod0 is always displayed in wireframe/outline mode (like it used to be) and the other lods are used only in the full textured mode.

Also, for those of you who are getting errors on startup, I think what might be causing it is the backgrounds. When I tried to turn on the backgrounds, the editor gave the generic "send error report to MS" message and terminated, but that background setting had been saved in the ini file and it kept crashing similarly on every subsequent startup of the program. The problem can be temporarily fixed by manually changing the show stars option to 0 in fred2's ini file (in the windows directory).

Quote
I'm still working on the line alignment problems. FRED should be working fully in HTL when I'm done with everything. It's going to take a little time to get all of that working though. I'll have a go at the briefing icon problem first.


Cool, it would be great if you can fix that briefing thing. That's the only really major issue left now.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 29, 2004, 06:43:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
"-mod [dir]" just like with normal fs2


It doesn't work for me... oddly enough :doubt:
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 29, 2004, 08:58:37 pm
are you using the correct fred exec
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 29, 2004, 09:10:17 pm
Yep, the one on this page...
Renamed the Fred name to say (-mod Port) at the end but nothing will work...
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Itsara on July 29, 2004, 09:37:41 pm
Is this the first FRED2 build you have made?
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: karajorma on July 30, 2004, 02:37:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Yep, the one on this page...
Renamed the Fred name to say (-mod Port) at the end but nothing will work...


:D It's not the name you have to change :)

Make a shortcut to FRED and right click on it. Choose properties and then in the Target box type -mod Port.

Quote
Originally posted by Itsara
Is this the first FRED2 build you have made?


Wo? Kazan? He's released at least one other build (I remember cause the one with -mod in it was his).

Don't remember if Taylor ever released one.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 30, 2004, 08:31:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Yep, the one on this page...
Renamed the Fred name to say (-mod Port) at the end but nothing will work...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Fury on July 30, 2004, 01:09:17 pm
Pretty please, add support for high number of background effects in stars.tbl. Its really annoying for mission designers to switch between two stars.tbl's from time to time because we have so many bg effects. Fs2_open already supports this.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: TopAce on July 30, 2004, 01:11:24 pm
Fix the actual bugs, first!
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 30, 2004, 01:14:31 pm
um fury... it should be there.. *goes and checks*

TopAce: which actual bugs? the ones taylor is working on
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: TopAce on July 30, 2004, 01:15:22 pm
For example these:



and the known problem with the briefing icons.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Fury on July 30, 2004, 01:38:51 pm
Now that you mentioned that fred2_open supports it, we double checked and it seems some bg effects were missing pcx version. even though jpg or tga version was in place, that caused the entries not to show up. :p
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on July 30, 2004, 01:38:53 pm
A) taylors on it
B) you need to jupe node model -- but this need is caused by the same reason A doesn't work
C) that doesn't work for the same reason A doesn't
D) taylors on it

basically those are all manifestations of _one_ bug
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 30, 2004, 04:08:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


:D It's not the name you have to change :)

Make a shortcut to FRED and right click on it. Choose properties and then in the Target box type -mod Port.



 


:nervous:

Uhhh... Thanks ;)

What do you know the background shows now :D
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: TopAce on July 31, 2004, 05:07:21 am
Can you do anything to fix the known briefing icon bug?
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: karajorma on July 31, 2004, 06:13:10 am
Taylor has already said he's working on that one too.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Gloriano on July 31, 2004, 06:27:09 am
Good work guys :yes:
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Fury on July 31, 2004, 07:16:44 am
Yes, very good work. :)
TBP team is anxiously waiting for fixed version of fred2_open. ;)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: SadisticSid on July 31, 2004, 07:54:29 am
As are we at Inferno. :)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Silent Warrior on August 01, 2004, 12:38:01 pm
I'm waiting for Nav-point-able FRED2 that doesn't refuse to start... (As for help towards finding a bug, that really IS the only assistance I can provide - it loads, then before the window displays - there's at least a session at the activity-bar (ported from Swedish) - boom. Debug or End session-dialogue. Tell me it isn't related to my Catalysts...)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on August 01, 2004, 02:22:32 pm
silent warrior: READ THE FSCKING INSTRUCTIONMS

commandline option required: "-fredhtl"
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Silent Warrior on August 02, 2004, 11:41:29 am
:o Inserting commandline...
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Lightspeed on August 02, 2004, 02:33:42 pm
1) I have not read all three pages, so whack me if i'm doing something totally wrong.

But this build seems not to "fix" anything but break FRED completely. FRED does not draw any outlines anymore, and will crash immediately when you enter the background settings without "-fredhtl". If you HAVE "-fredhtl" in the command line, it will not crash when you go to the background editor, but will crash as soon as you actually *add* a background picture. Nifty.

If you have any advice or fixes, please let me know :)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on August 02, 2004, 02:35:30 pm
rotfl lightspeed -- "broke fred completely" -- no.. we uncompletely broke fred :P

we couldn't even get fred to load a mission without crashing _period_ for about two weeks


as for the bugs you're talking about -- taylor's on them
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Forinec on August 02, 2004, 02:45:21 pm
I can use the FRED2_open_r that came with 3.6 just fine. Should I be experiencing any problems that I'm not aware of? :confused:
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Lightspeed on August 02, 2004, 02:48:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
rotfl lightspeed -- "broke fred completely" -- no.. we uncompletely broke fred :P

we couldn't even get fred to load a mission without crashing _period_ for about two weeks


as for the bugs you're talking about -- taylor's on them


Oh, I didn't know it was THAT bad. I've been using fred2_open_c04282004.exe for the last months, and even though it has it's little problems it's generally usable. ('cept for briefings)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Kazan on August 02, 2004, 02:49:34 pm
Forinec: missing features up the arse
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Singh on August 03, 2004, 09:20:04 am
gives me a strange error: special ship out of range for "alpha"
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Starman01 on August 05, 2004, 03:09:19 pm
Hey,

first off all, don't kill me asking for it, but I'm just curious how
the progress is going.

I want to start building our autopilot-missions, but it is currently
a little hard with this build. I work parrallel with an older build, and
use yours just do add the autopilot SEXP, but still it's a little annoying.

So any progress yet on the position-lines, briefing icons and these
sort of waypoints ? :) It's a little hard to work with this,( there are
actually two ships hidden behind this blue giant) itget's bigger, the
more I zoom out)

Thanks for the info.
(http://www.starman.ag5.de/pics/fred-error.jpg)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Solatar on August 05, 2004, 03:22:03 pm
I know I did something to make it smaller...I think if you add it while zoomed in real close, then un-select it an zoom away it stays small or invisible. Can't remember though.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Goober5000 on August 05, 2004, 03:29:24 pm
*kills Starman01*
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Starman01 on August 05, 2004, 03:45:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
*kills Starman01*


*voice from beyond the grave*

It was only a matter of time this was going to happen !:)
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Tolwyn on August 05, 2004, 04:16:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Starman01


*voice from beyond the grave*

It was only a matter of time this was going to happen !:)


Remember, Starman, I will be with you... always :thepimp:
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Fury on August 05, 2004, 11:26:34 pm
Well isn't that a great friendship. :D

Can anyone point me to stable and working fred2_open build which supports large number of entries in stars.tbl while we wait for better and newer build from taylor and Kazan?

It was a kickback when we noticed that missions modified with taylor's and Kazan's build weren't  no longer compatible with fred2_open 3.5.5 which has proven to be very well working fred2_open build.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Zarax on August 06, 2004, 05:13:05 am
CTD on start...
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Lightspeed on August 06, 2004, 10:40:43 am
fred2_open_c04282004.exe works "okay" for me.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Goober5000 on August 06, 2004, 11:28:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Can anyone point me to stable and working fred2_open build which supports large number of entries in stars.tbl while we wait for better and newer build from taylor and Kazan?
Probably not.  Be patient.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Fury on August 16, 2004, 12:30:26 pm
Sorry to bug you, but it seems our mission designers are getting impatient about backgrounds, briefing icons, waypoints, etc not showing in fred2_open.

It would probably cool them down a bit if they at least know there's been some progress in fixing those bugs.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Starman01 on August 16, 2004, 12:47:29 pm
I'm with Mr. Fury here, we are waiting patiently too, but any update
about the progress made would be great. Thanks.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: taylor on August 16, 2004, 09:51:13 pm
Not a ton of progress.  I have never really used FRED nor have I ever had an interest in designing a mission so I've got to learn how all of it works as I go.  That makes for slow going.

I'm still tracking down small problems.  A lot of graphics stuff gets freaky when it's dropping in and out of FRED code and is giving me a headache.  The new way that lines are drawn doesn't fix every problem so I'm trying to find the cause of the rest, also it messes up the hud targetbox in the main game for some reason.  I've noticed at least one real drawing problem that may be causing some of the alignment issues but haven't figured out what's causing it yet.  Some progress has been made on the briefing icons but it still doesn't work correctly.

I'm working on this as fast as I can but I'm not that familiar with the FRED code yet or Windows programming in general (I'm the Linux guy remember).  I'll get it all figured out though.  I'm putting all of my coding energy towards the background and briefing problems now so as soon as I've got that working (sometime this week) I'll put out a new build.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Lightspeed on August 16, 2004, 10:21:48 pm
How about trashing FRED completely and rewriting from scratch, using the in-game engine to render things?
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: taylor on August 16, 2004, 10:46:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
How about trashing FRED completely and rewriting from scratch, using the in-game engine to render things?

That would take a little longer ;)

FRED already renders using the in-game engine, all but the interface anyway and I wouldn't want to reimplement the interface in OGL. The problem is that the FRED code is wonky and there are a few strange little hacks in there that they never would have used in the main game.

In truth I've been thinking seriously about rewriting FRED using wxWidgets so that it will work on Windows, Linux and OSX.  That would give me the opportunity to fix most problems and open up mission making to non-Win32 people.  That's not going to happen anytime soon but I have little doubt that I will get fed up with the FRED code and do the rewrite for sanity sake.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Fury on August 16, 2004, 11:12:26 pm
Thanks for an update. Aren't there any other SCP'ers who knows about FRED2 code and could help you out? WMCoolmon comes to mind for an example.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Trivial Psychic on August 16, 2004, 11:55:15 pm
I think RT is the man to talk to for FRED's graphical side of things.
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Skippy on August 17, 2004, 03:38:48 am
Yep, but RL keeps him busy
Title: Taylor and I fixed FRED2
Post by: Ransom on August 17, 2004, 04:12:18 am
Quote
Originally posted by taylor
In truth I've been thinking seriously about rewriting FRED using wxWidgets so that it will work on Windows, Linux and OSX.

FRED working on OS X? Yes!