Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Deathstorm V2 on August 19, 2004, 01:05:03 pm
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I know this is a sore topic, but I thought it would be worth sharing:
Just bought the September issue of PC Gamer, and it had the following snippit:
"You practically have to be an OAP these days to remember the brilliant Freespace space combat game but, nevertheless, Part Three is being considered by Derek Smart of Universal Combat fame."
Also, Freespace moved up from 24th to 23rd in their "Top 100 Games" list for 2004.
Sorry if I repeated anything you know, but you know what happens when you search for "Freespace 3"...
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OAP? :wtf:
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Old Age Pensioner (i.e over 60 years old)
FS3 topics aren't taboo if they are about something new :D
It's only when they repeat the same tired old stuff that people complain.
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Okay, I guess you can hate me. Just noticed the older Derek Smart thread - don't know how the hell I missed that.
Anyway, if any admins out there feel like deleting this thread, go right ahead.
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Think we should write them?
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The fact it's in PCGamer makes it somewhat new even if we all knew about Derek Smart.
And the fact that it moved FS2 up a notch doesn't hurt either :D
Leave the topic open I say.
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Open the old one and let the discussion continue there, instead.
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didn't people mail them about that? if so, that could be why they know it.
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Originally posted by TopAce
Open the old one and let the discussion continue there, instead.
Reopen the Derek Smart thread? Are you mad? I'd rather try to teach ebola infected monkeys to dance! :no:
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Everyone is hostile today. I wonder why.
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I'm not hostile TopAce. But I have to question your sanity if you think the DS thread should be reopened. It was a 200+ post flamefest. It would be ridiculous to open it again. I'm shocked you even suggested it.
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It's worth that same magazine had their top 100 games of all time listing in it;
at number 23 came Freespace 2
"We pray nightly for a Freespace 3. This is one of the all time great space sims, that still bears comparison to modern peers like Freelancer or X2. Moment to saviour: nervously cruising through a dense nebula searching for a wayward battlegroup, only for the dust to clear in front of a truly terrifying battlecruiser, armed to the teeth with vast lasers and multiple gun ports"
Incidentally, that puts it ahead of (amongst others) Grim Fandango (25), PES3 (26), Quake 3(27), Doom 2(32), Homeworld 2(39), Syndicate (41), Starcraft (42), UFO (50), Fallout 2(53), TIE-Fighter (62), Sam & Max (66)...... it's also the highest ranked space sim, with neither X2, Freelancer nor any of the Wing Commander games mentioned.
EDIT; why the hell didn;t I notice this mentioned in the first post? Must have been the red mist from seeing Derek Sma...nope, can;t bring myself to finish that name.
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OMG OMG! Fr33sp4ce 3 made by D something) oh my god when this END!!!!?
But then Again I didn'/don't Really care about DS thing. FS2 is enough for me years to come BIG thanks to SCP team
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Think if PCGamer knew about the SCP, they'd move FS2 up a few pegs higher? ;7
Editted: because I can't think and type at the same time, and hope to spell things correctly.
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Originally posted by Raa
Thionk of PCGamer knew about the SCP, they'd move FS2 up a few pegs higher? ;7
Bloody well should.
Actually, someone should inform them of this - IIRC they are inviting readers to write in with retrospective looks at games and mod news, etc.
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I'm writing them now. ;)
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What I find interesting is that a year later when more games have come out FS2 moves up the list. Maybe they already know about the SCP and that is what is causing the upward trend even if they didn't pimp it.
It's either that or PCGamer getting nostalgic for space sims and bemoaning the fact that nothing better than FS2 has come out since.
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Or the utter crap being released lately is making FS2 look even better by comparison? ;7
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Even Gamespot's Freespace 2 forum is getting little more Active again..
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Originally posted by Raa
Or the utter crap being released lately is making FS2 look even better by comparison? ;7
Mr. Tor'h, you hit the nail on the head. :)
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anyidea about the top10 ?
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StarCraft is 42nd?!??!?!?
BURN THE HERETICS!!!
Just for curiosity, what game was removed that was in front of FS2 for it to "climb up the ladder"?
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which game is number 1? where does good ol warcraft fall in(if at all)?
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#1 is probably some **** like HalfLife or Doom.
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If they rate Doom 3 as number 1, i say burn the heretics too!!
It sucks big time. It´s all eye candy, and no substance.
As for FS3, i always thought the FS community should put together a set of campaigns, with new models and plot, use the SCP tech, and propose it to who owns the license. They would get a full finished product, for no work at all. They release it, and the profit is shared by both. Both sides would come out winning.
And the space-sim community would get FS3.
It´s obvious FS3 will never come to be if it depends of Interplay, they don´t want to bother. But if you present them with a finished product, they will consider it. After all, they are in it for the bucks...
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There is no interplay.
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also...
if it aint [v], it ain't fs3
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if it aint [v], it ain't fs3
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
There is no interplay.
I mean the guys who own the license. Interplay, foreplay, who cares?
if it aint [v], it ain't fs3
Oh, so Volition is some sort of God, is it? If they don´t make it, it´s not FS3? That´s bull!! Volition was just a bunch of guys, programers, coders, whatever. If suddenlly they all left, and started another company, it wouldn´t be FS3?
Don´t get all worked up over Volition, they make lowsy games, and lowsy deals too. I remember the total and complete letdown after Red Faction 2.
To be honest, i don´t care a rat´s ass about wich name appears in the box, i only care wether the game inside it is worth my 50 bucks. It doesn´t matter who makes it, it doesn´t matter what they call themselfs , the only thing that matters is making a good game, that gives justice to the FS saga. And as far as i can see, there are a lot of very capable persons right here, that could pull it off.
Remember, a game is only as good as its community. The company who releases it, or produces it is irrelevant. What matters are the people, the visionaries behind it, working backstage. They never get any recognition, only the company does. But without those men and women, the company wouldn´t even exist. So, instead of praising Volition or whatever other company, you should praise those unknown people who worked hard to give you FS.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
PS: You should also remember that Volition was, is, and will always be in it for the money. And remember that because they saw no financial gain in making FS3, we are not playing it and talking about it now. If they had the community in mind, they would have made it regardless of any financial gain, But they didn´t.
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Oh, so Volition is some sort of God, is it? If they don´t make it, it´s not FS3? That´s bull!!
They have the official FS3 story; the true sequel to the series. Anything we make wont be canon, therefore the saying "if it ain't [v], it ain't fs3."
You're also forgetting - those guys are paid to make this stuff, we aren't. Look at the number of mods that are currently hanging up dry because nobody has to time to finish them, and then tell me we can finish FS3.
If the guys who had the story decide to make FS3 on their own, away from [V], then fine - i would support it with everything I had, because I know everyone else would try their best to do the same. But a user or community-made campaign doesn't have that kind of support either (look at the freespace upgrade for one).
Recently, yes, Volition have been lacking in game quality; but that doesn't mean they can't make good games. They did make FS1 and 2 after all. ;)
Oh, and one more thing - they did want to make FS3, but were prevented by doing so since Interplay held the rights and didn't let them. They never did give them up, despite numerous petitions and requests by dozens of people around the world. The issue was then dropped and we now have the ub3r l33tn3ss that is the SCP.
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But a user or community-made campaign doesn't have that kind of support either (look at the freespace upgrade for one).
Look at Inferno, then. Look at Homesick, Derelict, and tell me they don´t have what it takes...
Look at SCP, then! How many of them were paid to do that work?
Seems to me some work done by non-paid users, is several times better than the original FS2 is.Sure, we don´t have huge ammounts of money to spend on voice actors, or CGI artists. But the rest, from the plot, to models, textures, mission design, and whatnot, it´s all present here. The idea is having everybody pulling in one direction, joining efforts. The capability is there, all that is needed is the will to see it through.
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Look at Inferno, then. Look at Homesick, Derelict, and tell me they don´t have what it takes...
Look at SCP, then! How many of them were paid to do that work?
Seems to me some work done by non-paid users, is several times better than the original FS2 is.Sure, we don´t have huge ammounts of money to spend on voice actors, or CGI artists. But the rest, from the plot, to models, textures, mission design, and whatnot, it´s all present here. The idea is having everybody pulling in one direction, joining efforts. The capability is there, all that is needed is the will to see it through.
Scroll down the screen and look at the other forums; the projects where their hasnt been a post for months, if not years. For every successfull campaign, their were at least 3 failiures.
Look at the SCP? As depressing as it sounds, I'd have to point to the sheer number of bugs (my ammo! my precious ammo!) that have arisen since its inception. Hornets and Tornadoes are useless; the afterburner bug is still there; we have slowdowns with even VANILLA fs2 data and Support ships have become too stingy just to name a few. All the new improvements just spawn a new wave of bugs that have to be squashed out. Dont get me wrong - the SCP team are doing an absolutely fantastic job all around - hell, I haven't seen such sweet stuff anywhere else. But even then, they are limited in number and hte things they can do with the original code. The Ferrium project has been started, but I dont think it'll finish for a long time yet.
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V is god. They made FS, and only they can finish it properly. Fin.
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Originally posted by Singh
Scroll down the screen and look at the other forums; the projects where their hasnt been a post for months, if not years. For every successfull campaign, their were at least 3 failiures.
That´s because people are pulling in diferent directions. People have high goals, they/we often bite more than we can chew, per se. But offer them a common goal and watch as it comes together.
If you start a really good project and ask the right people to join, they will come. If there were a common goal, a common interest, if people had an FS3 project to work on, they wouldn´t have wandered off and start their own "smaller" campaigns.
Look at the SCP? As depressing as it sounds, I'd have to point to the sheer number of bugs (my ammo! my precious ammo!) that have arisen since its inception. Hornets and Tornadoes are useless; the afterburner bug is still there; we have slowdowns with even VANILLA fs2 data and Support ships have become too stingy just to name a few.
The ammo bug is due to too many mods in your Freespace directory. It´s only natural that after a while a few ships tables and weapons tables start to override themselfs out, and cause problems. But that has nothing to do with FSO, it´s all in the personnal coding skills of each individual modder.
Support ships are stingy??? Sorry, don´t know that one. Don´t use Vanilla either.
The afterburner bug is not FS_Open related, it´s Win XP related. I had that bug ages before i even considered installing FS_Open.
And let me tell you this:
The very first time i played using FS_Open, my tongue falled to the ground. I was trully amazed at the details. The lights, the reflections, the explosions, the sheer ammount of details that i never realized were there.
And what does it matter that there are a few bugs? Aren´t there bugs in everything that comes out of a computer? Atleast they don´t pretend that it is a finished product, as many do. How many times have we bought a game only to realize we need to wait for them to release a patch, to allow us even play the damn game? Have you played X2 the Threat?
:doubt:
All the new improvements just spawn a new wave of bugs that have to be squashed out. Dont get me wrong - the SCP team are doing an absolutely fantastic job all around - hell, I haven't seen such sweet stuff anywhere else. But even then, they are limited in number and hte things they can do with the original code. The Ferrium project has been started, but I dont think it'll finish for a long time yet.
As in everything in life, problems happen. And they get solved.
If we were to discard everything just because there are a few "problems", Mankind would never have gotten out of the caves.
It is a pitty that some projects don´t get finished, but people have their own lives to deal with. Sometimes real life gets in the way and prevents work to be done. But that´s hardly an excuse to stop all work alltogether, just because a few won´t get past the project stage. Allthough a few fail to complete, a few others do finish, and we should be glad they did. The game designers at Volition and any other software company do this full time, and they get paid. But the community does it for love of the game, and that is to be praised indeed.
:yes: :yes: :yes:
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
That´s because people are pulling in diferent directions. People have high goals, they/we often bite more than we can chew, per se. But offer them a common goal and watch as it comes together.
If you start a really good project and ask the right people to join, they will come. If there were a common goal, a common interest, if people had an FS3 project to work on, they wouldn´t have wandered off and start their own "smaller" campaigns.
[/b]
And this is exactly why it wouldn't work. As much as I hate to say this - i doubt people will just abandon what their working on to come to some project that MAY just invalidate all the hard work they were doing prior to it.
That, and it sounds much like a dictatorship if you want to make everyone just drop what their doing and then work on FS3. It may happen elsewhere, but realistically, its never going to happen here i'm afraid.
The ammo bug is due to too many mods in your Freespace directory. It´s only natural that after a while a few ships tables and weapons tables start to override themselfs out, and cause problems. But that has nothing to do with FSO, it´s all in the personnal coding skills of each individual modder.
Support ships are stingy??? Sorry, don´t know that one. Don´t use Vanilla either.
[/b]
The ammo bit and the support ships are related - nobody has been able to trace the bug yet, basically its the bug whereby support ships DO NOT rearm you, making playing the original FS2 and other campaign mods unplayable. (although it has improved my flying skills, especially in homesick)
The afterburner bug is not FS_Open related, it´s Win XP related. I had that bug ages before i even considered installing FS_Open.
[/b]
Fair enough, you're right on that bit.
And let me tell you this:
The very first time i played using FS_Open, my tongue falled to the ground. I was trully amazed at the details. The lights, the reflections, the explosions, the sheer ammount of details that i never realized were there.
[/b]
I was amazed as well; astounded even.......then I focused on the mission, and realized that it had become unplayable at ~10Fps even without the new stuff.
This has been improved recently (thanks bob and taylor!!) but its still slow. As much as I hate to say it, the SCP ain't for me, simply because I dont have the muscle power to run it (at least, not yet - getting a new vid card this sunday, yippeee!!). I'm not asking for miracles here - heck, I understand that I cannot ask for speed as well as eyecandy on this old card. But when the old vanilla fS2, with no additional data and stuff runs faster than modern day FS2 with all options off and old data, its gotta mean something.
And what does it matter that there are a few bugs? Aren´t there bugs in everything that comes out of a computer? Atleast they don´t pretend that it is a finished product, as many do. How many times have we bought a game only to realize we need to wait for them to release a patch, to allow us even play the damn game? Have you played X2 the Threat?
:doubt:
[/b]
It is not just a few bugs, its a lot.
To me, FS2 cannot be played anymore, because it runs too slow. It is only mere eyecandy of a game, designed for the rich few of us with powerhouses for PCs :doubt:
As in everything in life, problems happen. And they get solved.
If we were to discard everything just because there are a few "problems", Mankind would never have gotten out of the caves.
[/b]
As I said, its not just a few problems here and there, its alot. You're basically asking that everyone ignore these problems and go ahead to make FS3, when are not logistically, or even mentally prepared to make such a leap, nor will we ever be. Don't get me wrong here - I am not totally dissing the SCP, but its just annoying to see such a rosy picture painted of it, when its not like that at all. Such optimism annoys me, is all ;) :p
It is a pitty that some projects don´t get finished, but people have their own lives to deal with. Sometimes real life gets in the way and prevents work to be done. But that´s hardly an excuse to stop all work alltogether, just because a few won´t get past the project stage. Allthough a few fail to complete, a few others do finish, and we should be glad they did. The game designers at Volition and any other software company do this full time, and they get paid. But the community does it for love of the game, and that is to be praised indeed.
:yes: :yes: :yes:
Which is why FS3 would never work if done by the community. All of us have real life jobs and commitments would intefere and you'd end up with people getting dissed at projects either being delayed or completed by others because the person had to go offline for a while. Eventually this may lead to fracturing and eventual splitting of the project. Want proof? Just look at the projects - really, really LOOK at them and see why they fell apart. These are the same reasons why such a large project would fall apart, except on a smaller scale.
No doubt, this community's love of the game is incredible, as witnessed by the advancements seen. I love this game as well, which is why I moved off other projects to come here; I gave up a lot to be here as well, and you still see my sticking around even due to the problems.
Guess my point is this: V is the only one that can develop FS3, because we sure as hell never will be able to do it the justice it deserves, and I doubt any other company could.
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Originally posted by Night Hammer
which game is number 1? where does good ol warcraft fall in(if at all)?
GTA: Vice City
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Originally posted by Deathstorm V2
I know this is a sore topic, but I thought it would be worth sharing:
Just bought the September issue of PC Gamer, and it had the following snippit:
"You practically have to be an OAP these days to remember the brilliant Freespace space combat game but, nevertheless, Part Three is being considered by Derek Smart of Universal Combat fame."
Also, Freespace moved up from 24th to 23rd in their "Top 100 Games" list for 2004.
Sorry if I repeated anything you know, but you know what happens when you search for "Freespace 3"...
Which PC gamer? my American version is a no joy for that.
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Originally posted by Ace Pace
Which PC gamer? my American version is a no joy for that.
UK.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
GTA: Vice City
:wtf: :mad:
Where is their HQ so I can pay them a visit?
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
:wtf: :mad:
Where is their HQ so I can pay them a visit?
Personally, I agree with them.
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
:wtf: :mad:
Where is their HQ so I can pay them a visit?
Come on, the game was great fun, not as good as FS, but remember, FS today is a niche game, and as much as I like it, it has flaws.
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Sure the game is good... but not THAT good... :mad:
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
Sure the game is good... but not THAT good... :mad:
What would you prefer? Half Life? its a over hyped game, that when playing, unless you were in 98 and that was the state of art, lacking.
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
Sure the game is good... but not THAT good... :mad:
I think it is. IT's definately provided more gameply time than any other game I own or have owned, on any format.
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Something like say... Homeworld, or... Wipeout, even Civ II. If you want something with a lot of gameplay time, go buy yourself a chess engine :p
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
Something like say... Homeworld, or... Wipeout, even Civ II. If you want something with a lot of gameplay time, go buy yourself a chess engine :p
Or GC.
Lets not kid ourselves, FS isn't going to go much higher, but neither should PCG UK get off with firebombing, mails people.
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
Something like say... Homeworld, or... Wipeout, even Civ II. If you want something with a lot of gameplay time, go buy yourself a chess engine :p
I don't even want to play any of those. Wipeout, in particular, was pretty poor IIRC. and i'd much rather have a game that keeps me entertained for 110+ hours as VC has, than one which only lasts about 10 (like Call of Duty... great as it was, it's still far too short).
Anyways, it's all about opinion. I agree with theirs RE: GTA:VC. You don't. 'nuiff said.
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I liked Half-Life... (I only got it 4 months ago)...
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Both GTA 3 and GTA:VC are awesome, and GTA:VC deservs that spot there
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Oh, so Volition is some sort of God, is it? If they don´t make it, it´s not FS3? That´s bull!!
They aren't called the [V] gods for nothing ;)
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
They aren't called the [V] gods for nothing ;)
/Sarcasm
thats what you call every dev. :p
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First, I would like to address the topic on "eye-candy". If a game is all graphics and no substance, as many people have said about Doom 3, then that game isn't worth replaying (won't play it more than once). Video game graphics seems to the the absolute first thing game critics rate these days. If it doesn't have good graphics, then it's not a good game. They bashed Thief - Deadly Shadows using this technique, but I really think that a game should be rated on its gameplay and replay value. Thief III definitely has superior game play and replay value (Shalebridge Cradle scared the living crap out of my asymptote.). Half-Life for its time had extremely well-done graphics and gameplay. I myself played the main campaign twice, as well as the two expansion packs. Doom was pretty revolutionary for its age (1993-1994?), but the concept of "blow everything up" soon became passé and such games lost value. Today people are trying to focus on games with more content than pure action. That was the problem with Descent and Descent ][ , for they practically repeated each other. Outrage saw this problem and created Descent3, where it was more interactive. And of course, the Freespace series followed suit.
Freespace 2 is by far my favorite game, but I don't agree that FS3 must be written by Volition. Take Thief III as an example. LGS, the company that made the previous two games, went out of business, but Ion Storm made a sequel (the last of the series), and a pretty good one. But personally, I don't approve of Derek Smart making FS3 for several reasons. The biggest reason is my fear that he'll somehow merge two space-sims and call it "FS3". My other fear is his proposed "dislike" of original FS vessels and wants to replace them with more "modern" ones. If this means that GTVA ships (especially the Terran vessels) are to be more - nautical (such as the ugly Expediator from Descent 3), then I definitely not rally behind the game and its maker.
Thus, I think the topic of FS3 should cease to exist. I mean, our SCP guys are working day and night, sacrificing precious time with their families and midterm/final exam study time to bring us something far more superior than what Derek could bring us. And plus, we have fan-made campaigns such as Derelict, Inferno, and soon-to-be BWO. So ask yourself this, "Do we really need a FS3 from an outsider?"
Rampage
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I think there's a common misconception that the SCP on its own can be seen as a game. We have to remember that it's not. FSO is two things - an upgrade for the original FS2 game (ie. same campaign, better graphics) and a platform for us modders to make new, better campaigns.
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The FAQ expresses my opinions on the matter.
HOW ABOUT WE GET THE COMMUNITY TOGETHER AND WRITE FS3?
After questions about FS3's release date this is one of the sorest points in the community. Although the source code for FS2 has been releases and the community is working on it they'll never make an official FS3. The community has stuck by the motto "If it isn't [V], it ain't FS3" for a long time. More importantly the various members of the community have their own viewpoints of where the FS3 plotline would go. Since they are almost certainly all different from what [V] actually planned it's very hard to pick one as the official plotline for a community based FS3.
About the only thing that the community would rally round would be an official plotline from [V] but they continue to play their cards very close to their chests in this respect.
The closest the community has gotten to making FS3 is The Ferrium Project. This is a community driven project to make a new engine based on Freespace. Although Ferrium will come with its own campaign it won't be Freespace related and thus cannot be considered as Freespace 3.
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What was the Paradigm Shift about again?
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FS 2.85
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
They aren't called the [V] gods for nothing ;)
correctamundo, mi fellow hlp person.
hail volition
all hail fs3
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The community has stuck by the motto "If it isn't [V], it ain't FS3" for a long time.
Exactly!
They are stuck, stagnated, no evolution. Let´s face it Volition is out of the ballgame, better search for a new team if you want to play the game.
Volition changed, it lost track of their fans, they moved for the big bucks with Red Faction 2. They sold out, period.
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You miss the point Swamp Thing. The point is that if the FS3 storyline doesn't have the official [V] explaination for Bosch then it's no better than any of the other mods. What would make a game the REAL FS3 is a continuation of the storyline of FS1 & 2. The problem is that any company could make a story in the FS2 universe but unless it had the real [V] storyline it would most likely be viewed in the same sense as Alien 3 is. A fine story. Absolutely bugger all to do with 1 & 2 though.
There are 5-6 different campaigns which explain what Bosch was up to. Do you really think we can come up with an original 7th idea and get everyone to say "Yep. That's the explaination"?
I don't care if [V] write the game itself but if someone else writes the plotline then it's no more canon than MindGames or Reci or any other campaign that continues the storyline.
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Or KTs' explaination for it all. Can't forget that one. Tis' the one that everyone will agree on anyway. :D