Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flipside on August 20, 2004, 06:59:19 pm
-
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040820/ap_on_el_pr/nader_ballot_access
You know, after all the confusion and accusations last time, I cannot help but be a bit suspicious about this..... I mean, let's face it, when it comes to 'legal voting requirements' theres no way on Earth that the current American government can get on a high-horse :(
-
Democrats are doing everything in their power, legal and otherwise, to keep Nader off the ballots.
Yeah, ain't democracy grand. Kerry accuses the Vietnam Vets of demonizing him, but the Democrats are doing it 10x worse. In one instance, Nader needed to get X amount of people together to sign a petition or whatever that would get him the ballot in that state. So what the Democrats did is they got their lackeys to go to the convention, fill up the building, so that the real Nader supporters couldn't all fit inside, and then not sign the petition. They physically filled up the building so that the people who needed to sign the petition couldn't get in.
The whole affair makes me ****ing sick. American politics is a joke. Its not a circus, its the circus that all the employees from other circuses go to.
-
You know, there was a time when election meant choice :(
It's becoming more and more apparent that no matter how people vote the same party is going to get in.
Kinda reminds me of the UK for some reason... :nervous:
Oh well, at least the Liberals here are still alive, if somewhat jaded.
-
can someone even name one thing, one single thing, that Kerry does better than Nader. The American Left seems to think that Nader is more or less right on about the issues, but for some reason they hate him and keep voting for the Democrats. If he's better you asshats, why not vote for him?
just one issue. as a token gesture. One tiny little issue where Kerry's position is more desireable. To all you Kerry fanboys: name it.
-
Classic problem of a 2 party system. People don;t think the (their) 3rd party has any chance of winning, so they vote for the 'big' party to get reid of the incumbent - or prevent the main challenger getting in.
-
I'm going to do a Nostradamus here, and try to predict what is going to happen in the next 120 years if things go on this way, I've worded it rather radically, but I'm not trying to start a flamewar, just trying to put it directly :D
Within 20 years : Regardless of which party gets into power, I predict an increase in secularism and religious fervour. I see an increase in religion and race related violence.
Within 50 years : Oil consumption and water demand at an all-time high, people suddenly start realising that the original Oil-supply quotes were assuming that the population would not increase by over 50% in the next 20 years. Energy demand will become a matter of War once again, as areas of America tended by Oil-based generators suffer from blackouts. Hydrogen and Solar power which was left far too late, can only provide a tiny fraction of the National Grid, and generators cannot be replaced fast enough due to economy problems caused by the Oil Crisis.
Within 100 years : Some Southern states, seeing themselves as 'Christian States' start to demand a church-led leadership which would replace a Washington-Based leadership, effectively expressing a wish to become like the Vatican, a country of their own accord. This will not be granted, but the cracks will start to show by now.
Within 130 years, the massive debt from obtaining Oil and other Energy finally backlashes and the economy collapses, thousands die from starvation and violence and America is left with a humanitarian crisis.
If you think I am overplaying this, read the ending of just about every major empire, corruption seeps in at the top, Wars are fought for land/gold whatever the local demand is at the time. Eventually as people turn more and more to religion to fulfill themselves, in many cases certain 'home' states will start to cause trouble, this is usually the first sign that things are terribly wrong. As the cycle of 'gain over relations' continues, the empire eventually collapses in on itself as it finds out it theres nothing more it can take and can no longer afford to take anything else.
From Rome to Russia, I think pretty much every one of them has gone the same way :( I hope it doesn't to be honest, it would be a terrible disaster, but unless the people in power can see beyond their own bank accounts, I can honestly see things starting to go this way. :(
-
Only if the Vogons don't get here first.
-
The Vogons wouldn't touch us with a bargepole, they know a race of complete Blarks when they see one ;)
-
Haha. "Hey, you sass that hoopy Ralph Nader? There's a frood who really knows where his towel is!"
Actually, this is what I think the future holds:
Beginning towards the end of the 21st century, humanity will be in a state of economic, political, and social chaos. In a last-ditch effort to save the race from utter destruction, a project of immense scientific and cultural implications will be undertaken by a joint effort between the United States, the European Union, China, and Japan. They will attempt to create a group of superhumans, capable of leading the world into a new Utopian age. The project's code name: Project Boss.
After careful deliberation, the team's scientists will eventually decide that the clone subject will be none other than Tony Danza. Why? Because he's the boss. Using the latest technology, a handful of Tony Danza clones will be created and charged with reorganizing the world logistically, politically, and socially. However, cloning at this point will still be a risky science, and the Tony Danza clones will begin to exhibit mental instability. Seeing that the project threatens to spin out of hand, the world will attempt to pull the plug, but it will be too late.
The Bosses will begin to consolidate their power by building whole armies of their clones, arming them, and establishing a regime based on cold, emotionless efficiency. Humanity will fight back, and the largest, most devastating war the world has ever seen will ensue as the shattered remnants of the free world fight tooth and nail for every inch against the ruthless hordes of Tony Danza clones. The scorched battlefields will echo throughout the grey days and the long, cold nights with the chilling war chant, "Who's the boss? Who's the boss?"
-
:lol: Could be worse, can you imagine an army of Fender-wielding Bruce Springsteens? ;)
LOL Sorry, I just got the Vogons joke, not awake tonight ;)
-
There is a reason Nader isn't even really in a party anymore. I for one am glad.
-
Hmmmmmmmmmm..... difficult to say, if I felt it were a natural evolution in American politics then fair enough, but I'm more inclined to think of it as an 'induced evolution'. Basically equivalent to the Tories and Labour ganging up to squeeze the Liberals out of existence. Such an act in the UK would probably only serve to increase the liberal vote, but then, we are a contrary and stubborn people ;) I suppse, whether you agree with him or not, he needs to exist in politics.
To reduce the system deliberately down to 2 parties which carry roughly the same opinions and views would be an unhealthy option for American politics in my opinion.
-
I think you're being overly pessimistic Flipside. I mean, everyone from Aldous Huxley to George Orwell has been predicting doom and gloom for humanity for years, and I believe that at the time, they honestly meant it. And they have all been wrong. When they said "we have to get our act together or catastrophe is unavoidable", well we didn't get our act together and yet somehow the catastrophe was avoided.
No offence to you, but that sounds more like science fiction that you're writing :):)
There is an ever-increasing base of socially and politcally conscious people around the world. Some, like yourself, because they have been exposed to a rather open and enlightened social environment, where their education and exploration have lead quite naturally to a peaceful and just world view. Others, like many in Latin America, have arrived at the same conclusion by the exact opposite means, oppression and inequality also lead to a desire for peace and justice.
I think that yes, empires have all fallen in more or less the same way, but I think that the nature of the current global state of affairs is quite different than ever before. The American empire is on its way out, what remains to be seen iss what will become of Asia, the EU and China. I have some hopes for South America, but nothing really specific. Military force as a means of world control is ending, and economic power is set to take its place. Thats why I think that China and East Asia are the places to watch.
Without getting to deeply into the details, my current outlook is cautious optimism. A better world is not impossible, in fact, I think its inevitable. What I'm worried about is what comes after that. I predict a huge cultural revolution. When all of mankind is finally fed and clothed and at peace, what then? I forsee human thought very quickly breaking new frontiers, and as a result, human actions will also change. To use a very appropriate analogy, (from the HHGTTG of course), I believe that we are now very close to the end of the Survival stage, and about to enter wholeheartedly the Inquiry stage. Beyond the end of the Survival stage, I really can't predict with any certainty.
-
That's where they get the "either you are with us, or against us" mentality...
I'm glad to live in a country with too many parties :D
:nervous:
-
Yes, I'm possibly underestimating Human Nature to be honest, but we tend to go through existence like a lucky drunk-driver, each time just missing the tree by inches because for one split second every muscle in the body actually did the right thing at the right time, and yet we always manage to steer the car towards another tree ;)
The whole energy thing concerns me greatly though, I really do get the feeling we are going to feel the sting before things get better :(
-
Originally posted by Blue Lion
There is a reason Nader isn't even really in a party anymore. I for one am glad.
Explain why. You can't expect to convince someone with two sentences. And besides, Nader left the Greens cause they're a sinking ship. By electing Cobb and opting for the "safe states" strategy, they've just sign their own death warrant.
Does it seem strange to you that they are a political party who's very goal it is to not have an impact['i]. They just couldn't stand the nasty glares they get on the streets, from dumbasses without a clue. They were tricked into feeling guilty for Bush by the very oligarchs who they are out to destroy.
To reduce the system deliberately down to 2 parties which carry roughly the same opinions and views would be an unhealthy option for American politics in my opinion.
already happened. Its healthy for politics, but not for the people - be they the American people or just people around the people. The ruling elite are mainting control, thats their job. They are keeping the power to themselves and fighting with all they got against greater democracy at home and for empire abroad.
-
Originally posted by Flipside
Yes, I'm possibly underestimating Human Nature to be honest, but we tend to go through existence like a lucky drunk-driver, each time just missing the tree by inches because for one split second every muscle in the body actually did the right thing at the right time, and yet we always manage to steer the car towards another tree ;)
The whole energy thing concerns me greatly though, I really do get the feeling we are going to feel the sting before things get better :(
Hmm, my solution to that would be to get some government with lots of resources, say China, Russia, Japan or India, and little control over oil reserves, to finance a large-scale shift to reusable energy. America doesn't want to do it becuase the people who run the country stand to loose their whole business empire, and besides, the US has control over almost all the world's oil, so they're not worried. But nations like India or Japan, they don't have all that much oil, and yet their energy demands are large and growing. So, they are more open to peruasion regarding reusable and environment-friendly energy than the US.
What we need right now is a viable test-case. We need a country that runs primarily on reusable energy to serve as a test-bed for the new technologies and more importantly, to show the world it can be done. Once we have that, I think that the EU and others will be quick to adopt it.
-
Oddly enough, there are companies that manufacture roof-tiles with solar cells built into them. It has been pointed out to our government that if 1/3 of our population got roof SP Roof tiles and were hooked into the grid, we would cut our energy spending by 85% in the next ten years alone.
Our government, however, is unwilling to make the initial outlay in the way of benefits to people who choose SP Roof tiles, or putting subsidies on the price of them, making them cheaper than normal roof tiles, despite the fact it would save them many hundreds of times the initial cost in the long run. Why is this? Because it is a longer than 4-year project, and governments plan on a 4-year basis. Because if it starts when the Tories are in power, but doesn't start to make a profit until Labour are in power, the Tories think this would glorify Labour :/
It's the most noticeable weakness in the election system, there needs to be more 'long term' thinking.
-
I was under the impression, probably mistakenly, that the Tories were done for. They may get a large minority, but it seems to me that they're not going to be winning any elections in the near future. Same in Canada. The Liberals are here to stay. Even when the two existing right-wing parties united, and amidst a huge scandal involving the Liberals, they still won. Its a minority government, but they won.
I don't think people are going to regress, socially speaking, to elect a conservative party. But this is all just assumptions, considering I know very little about the current political and social climate in the UK.
-
The Tories are a bit of an unknown quantity to be exact, if it had not been for the Iraq War, I think Blair would sail this election as easily as the two before it, but now I am far from sure. The Minorities have lost faith with him, which includes large areas of London and other large industrial cities, Labours 'heartland' as it were.
Most people can remember the Tories in power in their lifetimes, whereas considerably less can remember the Liberals in power, so I think personally the undecided vote will swing towards the conservatives. Though you may see a hung parliament this time round, which might well ruffle more than a few feathers :)
-
I think when you compare your theories on this issue with mine, it becomes clear that you're being totally unrealistic.
-
Or you are, depends on the point of view really ;)
Let's hear the theory and see what becomes clear :)
-
You saw mine already. :D
-
Ah yes, the clone wars! ;)
:lol: Yep, actually, I wouldn't raise both eyebrows if it did happen to be honest ;)
-
The Randomness strikes again.
(http://www.butternutsquash.net/assets/library/38-bns.jpg)
not that its my intention to derail the thread.
-
Originally posted by Flipside
I'm going to do a Nostradamus here, and try to predict what is going to happen in the next 120 years if things go on this way, I've worded it rather radically, but I'm not trying to start a flamewar, just trying to put it directly :D
Within 20 years : Regardless of which party gets into power, I predict an increase in secularism and religious fervour. I see an increase in religion and race related violence.
Within 50 years : Oil consumption and water demand at an all-time high, people suddenly start realising that the original Oil-supply quotes were assuming that the population would not increase by over 50% in the next 20 years. Energy demand will become a matter of War once again, as areas of America tended by Oil-based generators suffer from blackouts. Hydrogen and Solar power which was left far too late, can only provide a tiny fraction of the National Grid, and generators cannot be replaced fast enough due to economy problems caused by the Oil Crisis.
Within 100 years : Some Southern states, seeing themselves as 'Christian States' start to demand a church-led leadership which would replace a Washington-Based leadership, effectively expressing a wish to become like the Vatican, a country of their own accord. This will not be granted, but the cracks will start to show by now.
Within 130 years, the massive debt from obtaining Oil and other Energy finally backlashes and the economy collapses, thousands die from starvation and violence and America is left with a humanitarian crisis.
If you think I am overplaying this, read the ending of just about every major empire, corruption seeps in at the top, Wars are fought for land/gold whatever the local demand is at the time. Eventually as people turn more and more to religion to fulfill themselves, in many cases certain 'home' states will start to cause trouble, this is usually the first sign that things are terribly wrong. As the cycle of 'gain over relations' continues, the empire eventually collapses in on itself as it finds out it theres nothing more it can take and can no longer afford to take anything else.
From Rome to Russia, I think pretty much every one of them has gone the same way :( I hope it doesn't to be honest, it would be a terrible disaster, but unless the people in power can see beyond their own bank accounts, I can honestly see things starting to go this way. :(
Accelerate your timescale. Have energy consumption increase exponentially with countries such as India and China developing faster, the US and Europe (especially eastern) consuming more resources and the secularism v.s. religiosity coming to a head quicker due to reactionaries going to the extreme due to fear of a loss of influence. (i.e. greens and neo-cons both deep-down feeling obsolete)
Imagine a debate between Kazan and Liberator, but on a nation-state scale.
On average, most people in the big powers of the world won't feel a thing other than more ideological splintering. The class divide won't seem bigger on the surface (i.e. everyone has basic necessities and their consumer crap made in foreign countries), but it will be. Developing nations are going to have an even harder time though...
Effectively, how things are now but taken to the next level.
The wildcard is going to be how globalization due to the internet and technology influences society. Our current generation (20 year olds and under) will be the first where this is going to be a major thing, but our kids are where this is going to really become a major factor. The class system could easily have a shaking up with people who can afford/use technology v.s. those who cannot even more than it already is. (i.e. current mass media is pretty lowest common demoninator, that's changing with cellphones, internet, etc. it's going to become a new set of "haves" and "have nots" based on this)
-
again, thats being overly dramatic IMHO.
1) Secularism is on the rise in all Western industrial nations, across the board. This includes all of Europe, North America, East Asia, Russia, Japan etc. What once used to be considered radical left-wing politics - environmentalism, gay marriage, antiwar etc - is now coming into the mainstream. Religion is on its way out, and even the small group of fundamentalissts you're bound to have, even they are becoming slighty more liberal by degrees. South America, though religious, has never been a hotbed for fundamentalism, quite the opposite, the Church has been on the forefront of the progressive and anti-imperial movement. Africa is not terribly religious, their conflict are more ethnic. And even the Muslim world (Iran, Saudi Arabia etc) are getting small doses of secularism. I think that your perception of this may be a bit skewed, considering that American Christian fundamentalists are among the craziest mofos in the Christian world.
2) Yes, the energy will start running low. But seriously, I can't imagine certain powers (such as China, Japan or the EU) being so short-sighted as to not see the coming problem. Uncle Sam controls the oil, or alternately the Saudis and Russians do, which means that certain countries are going to have to figure something out if they want to meet their rising energy demands. China for example could pull it off beautifully, consiodering how centralized the government is. I think we're going to see some serious development and hopefully implementation, of reusable energy.
But I think the real resource that everyone will be after is water.
3) The current form of global integration, Globalization with a capital G, or neo-liberalism if you will, is meeting with resistance across the world. Look, even in Europe and North America, the places that have benefited the most and lost the least, even there is the opposition almost universal. I linked a while ago to a BBC poll that showed that the average BCC viewer sees Globalization as the single biggest threat to world peace and prosperity, more than terrorism. This is signifcant, since your normal BBC viewer is not very radical.
In South America, where globalization has really hurt people the worst, there is a growing resistance movement. Thats one of the reasons why Chavez is so important. His actions will likely decide the future for this movement. Brazil, Venezuela and Argentina, they have all elected anti-Global governments (note to Kazan, if I much as hear a peep out of you...). Mexico and Bolivia look like they're going to reach critical mass withtin the next few years. The tremendous inequality and suffering that neo-liberalism has caused, thats sparking a very real and significant backlash.
4) Across the board, people have greater and quicker access to alternatve viewpoints. Even in China, the government is being forced to loosen the grip of censorship. And with more exposure to media and greater education comes great political and social awareness. And with education and media decenralization comes a shift left-ward.
Its sounds cliched, but you know the advantages of the Internet. And instead of creating a divide among people, I think that as more people get it, it will create greater unity.
------
you get the idea...
-
(1) The US is in decline, politically and economically - this is just the first visible steps.
(2) The UK is going through our typical - we liked this government for a while and said everything was gonna be better, but now we need someone new (I give Tony another term again, and he's gonna be out like Thatcher was). We do this for some reason. We seem to survive nonetheless. God bless civil servants.
(3) The European Union seems to think it can take the crown of world superpower when America finally deflates. I doubt it, since the EU is too corrupt now, let alone once it tried to expand it's influence around the globe.
(4) China should be laughing.
-
I think someone should make a soap opera and base all the characters on countries then translate current world affairs into a script for a half hour nightly programme. I don't know what it would be called or how it would work but thats what I want to see.
-
"Oh Jacquette, how could you abandon me when I needed you most?"
"Get your hands off me Sam, I'm with Hans now. You were too violent for me, I could never live that life. I have new friends now, so stay away!"
"Is that the way its gonna be then? You left me for those Eurotrash snobs? Fine, have it your way. But don't think I won't tell everyone what a ***** you are."
"Oh please, everyone knows you don't have any friends Sam, except that sniveling little brown-nose Tony. You never made me feel appreaciated and needed. We always went where you wanted to go. And when I didn't feel like going, you just went without me! Its always me, me, me! "
"C'mon baby, we can work things out. I can change! Just give me a few months to get me act together; 'till Novermber."
"No Sam, I'm leaving you and thats that! Hans knows how to treat me right. Goodbye Sam."
-
Awesome. That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about dude.
:yes:
-
Secularism is on the rise in all Western industrial nations, across the board. This includes all of Europe, North America, East Asia, Russia, Japan etc. What once used to be considered radical left-wing politics - environmentalism, gay marriage, antiwar etc - is now coming into the mainstream. Religion is on its way out, and even the small group of fundamentalissts you're bound to have, even they are becoming slighty more liberal by degrees. South America, though religious, has never been a hotbed for fundamentalism, quite the opposite, the Church has been on the forefront of the progressive and anti-imperial movement. Africa is not terribly religious, their conflict are more ethnic. And even the Muslim world (Iran, Saudi Arabia etc) are getting small doses of secularism. I think that your perception of this may be a bit skewed, considering that American Christian fundamentalists are among the craziest mofos in the Christian world.
It was actually my understanding that ultra-conservative Evangelical Christianity was actually on the rise in much of the third world, including Africa and Latin America.
-
Well, I think radical Christianity is trying to form a power base in South America to be honest, just as radical Muslims use the poor and ignorant as their cannon fodder to achieve their goals, so does radical Christianity. It's a bit of a race against time I think, Education vs Indoctrination :(
-
Originally posted by Flipside
Within 130 years, the massive debt from obtaining Oil and other Energy finally backlashes and the economy collapses, thousands die from starvation and violence and America is left with a humanitarian crisis.
Leaving the world ripe for takeover by the apes!
-
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/ape.jpg)
Muahahahahahaha!!
-
I'm not sure about Africa, but regarding Latin America, from what I've read the church has usually been on the side of the poor and oppressed, much to the dislike of the Vatican. You shouldn't mistake faith for fanatacism. At the risk of making some sweeping generalizations, I'de say that faith is alive and well in South America, but not in a negative sense. It seems to me that the Christian Right in America is a rather repressive and backwards model, built on strict adherance to legalisms, much like Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia. Its important to note that there are other models for Christianity, those built not on the letter of the law but on the intent. To use the Muslim analogy again, this would be equivalent to the Sufis. I hope I'm getting my point across, I don't know how clear that all was.
If you have some articles or whatnot regarding this, I'de love to read them.
-
I don't I'm afraid Rictor, a lot of this is based on personal opinion and just the impression I get from current world status, I may very well be entirely wrong about some things, that's why I like places like this, it helps me get rid of those mis-understandings :)
I suppose part of me hopes that someone will come along and prove that I'm being too pessimistic about things ;)
It's interesting that Islam has almost as many schisms as Christianity :)
-
WHO are the Torries and Labour? :confused:
-
Tories = British Slang for Conservatives, where in power for a long time, sold off most of our public interests and generally screwed up the economy for personal gain.
Labour = their alleged 'opposing' party, supposedly to represent the Unions and the 'Working classes' though the two pretty much share the same policies. Currently in power wi th Tony Blair at their head :)
-
Ah, thanks.
-
Originally posted by Flipside
Tories = British Slang for Conservatives, where in power for a long time, sold off most of our public interests and generally screwed up the economy for personal gain.
Labour = their alleged 'opposing' party, supposedly to represent the Unions and the 'Working classes' though the two pretty much share the same policies. Currently in power wi th Tony Blair at their head :)
That's cause old labour died a death with John Smith and a closet Tory was foolishly elected head of the party.
I knew Tony Blair wasn't really labour from the second he appeared on my radar but the fact that he was considering privatising air traffic control is what proved it beyond a reasonable doubt.
-
Rictor's first statement in this thread is 100% pure unrefined bull****
-
note to ace: i wouldn't open up with guns _first_ (though if the opposition fired on me they would rue the day)
-
I'm pretty sure that at least in Africa, the Christian right has had a big hand in discouraging, or even preventing, the use of birth control, which is vital in combating the disastrous spread of disease on that continent.
-
GAH! I need to get off this ****ing planet.........who wants to help me build an Orion?
-
Originally posted by Bri_Dog
GAH! I need to get off this ****ing planet.........who wants to help me build an Orion?
Can't, being a christian, I must stay to bring upon the end of days :p j/k
But, I do have a point...
This is supposed to happened, religions are supposed to fight, terrorism is supposed to be, everything that has happened brings us one step closer to the fate that has been prophecised...
Don't judge me though, I don't and never want to encourage the things that are going on, I love humanity... I'm just saying that IMO this is the way it's happening and always has. NEVER has the bible been wrong, over 1000 prophecies have been right on even till this day....
-
Look at it this way.
If we don't have free will, whatever you do doesn't matter anyway.
But if we do have free will and you don't make the effort to better mankind, believeing that some book is going to predict our future, you're basically standing idly by (or actively helping) as humanity goes down ths ****ter. Essentially, you have nothing to lose.
Originally posted by Joe Strummer
The future is unwritten.
-Joe Strummer - The Clash
-
Well, we do have free will...
But that doesn't mean it's going to change what's going to happen, because as you see around you people are making irrational choices left and right and you cannot kill them or tell them other wise....
All we right know are doing is griping about a bunch a trash laying around are streets, but not enough people are there to pick it up, do you get where I'm going?
You probably don't I suck at explaining things
-
In a literal sense, I believe in free will because I don't believe in fate, and certainly not in a higher power. However, I wonder about how much we can actually change simply because of what's hardwired into our instincts.
-
You MEAN... GENETIC ENGINERING!?!? :shaking:
-
I don't believe that a book as such can tell us the future, but, even I'm capable of a pretty good guess at what will happen if mankind doesn't change. I suppose if I had to word it in such a way as to be understandable 2000-4000 years ago, I too would use chariots of flame, and pillars of smoke etc, it captures the imagination somewhat ;)
I don't think the Bible was saying that the 'End of Days' will come, only that if it did come, that's what it would be like, humanity hasn't changed that much in 4000 years to be honest, at least not from the skin inwards.
My own personal opinion is that if the end of Days is soon, then we, and we alone, Godless and Demonless, have bought it upon ourselves. If we convince ourselves that we are part of some 'Prime Destiny' then we create a self-fulfilling prophecy of Death for those who choose it and those who do not. I for one, would not choose to be any part of pathetic bickering over creatures we created in our arrogance so we could forgive ourselves for our ignorance.
Not attacking anyone, just my own view on the matter ;)
-
I know exactly what you mean, even though the bible predictions have been correct, that doesn't mean that there is a God. Your exactly right in every parts of your post (simply viewing it from you eyes...) But, then again there is no way to prove there is or isn't :)
-
My outlook is significantly more cheery, I must say ;) ;)
Look, if we made it this far, then we're not about to blow it now. I believe that public consciousness is a major part of humanity's survival, and it has never been as "good" as it is now. People, even ordinary, normal people, have common sense, compared to which all of humanity's greatest philosophers pale in comparison. As I mentioned, some of our brightest minds have been predicting doom for year now, and yet the radical and positive movement which they prescribed as the only way to avoid catastrophe has not happened. No one flipped a switch and all of a sudden humanity did an about face. No, the reason we have endured, and will endure is, in my humble opinion, common sense and a self-preservation instinct.
Orwell predicted that World War 2 would end either in faschism or totalitarianism if non-faschist Europe (France, Britain etc) and the US did not whole-heartedly embrace social democracy, and yet neither happened. The West came out of the war more liberal-minded than ever, most major colonies declared independence shortly after and even in the USSR, the hot-bed of totalitarianism, Big Brother was not able to hold on to power indefinitely.
If we leave the governance of the world to nothing more than common sense, which appears to be increasingly and irreversibly the case, we'll be just fine.
-
Originally posted by Rictor
My outlook is significantly more cheery, I must say ;) ;)
Look, if we made it this far, then we're not about to blow it now. I believe that public consciousness is a major part of humanity's survival, and it has never been as "good" as it is now. People, even ordinary, normal people, have common sense, compared to which all of humanity's greatest philosophers pale in comparison. As I mentioned, some of our brightest minds have been predicting doom for year now, and yet the radical and positive movement which they prescribed as the only way to avoid catastrophe has not happened. No one flipped a switch and all of a sudden humanity did an about face. No, the reason we have endured, and will endure is, in my humble opinion, common sense and a self-preservation instinct.
Have you met my generation? :p
Well, over here, I'm exposed to so much... :blah:
Might be because were still young, but....
-
nothing wrong with genetic engineering
-
You got to do what you got to do... I guess...
If there is a God he will stop it so.... :)
-
well if there was a god he would have stopped cloning
PS: i didn't read the post you were getting hyper about genetic engineering in reation to
-
animals? yeah right...
Uhmm... that post was just a joke... it wasn't serious
-
i reiterate - there is nothing wrong with genetic engineering
if you think there is then you cannot eat anything we farm - animal, vegitable or fruit since they've _all_ been genetically engineered
via selective breeding and sometimes with direct manipulation of modern technology
-
DUH!!!
I know all of this, I was just joking it wasn't serious
-
oh.. i misread your last post
-
my prediction: I take over the world and govern according to the writings of Isaac Asimov. We'll all live with the illusion of independence while superintelligent robots with nothing but our best interests in their positronic brains run the show.
and whatever you do, do NOT mention the I, Robot movie
HERESY!!!
but seriously, the world would be much better if it were ruled by a benevolent dictator/philosopher king suh as myself, i'd have advisors too, and my regime would be a little socialistic, with free healthcare and cool things like that (legalized weed and shrooms)... yeah, vote for me
-
I tend to agree with Rictor. There's no reason we should have to die out; there are no rules to our existence.
-
PunkRocks64: we watched Matrix 1 in chemistry today.
PunkRocks64: and you know how Morpheus says the beginning of the end was the creation of AI?
EventuallyAdonis: what about it?
PunkRocks64: he says basically that the what started the machines taking over was human's fascination with AI..
PunkRocks64: and.. have you noticed that like 99% of our population is infatuated with American Idol .........
EventuallyAdonis: that's deep
There you have it. The true cause of humanity's demise.