Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Hippo on August 29, 2004, 08:28:32 am
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Can there be a flag that when using the Alt-Pause or when pressing the Screenshots button, all models display at lod1? Singh made it painfully obvious o me, when he took a screen with an Arcadia in the foreground, that was already on LOD3... (did something happen to make the lod's change sooner? It does seem like it is happening a lot more often...) ...
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Restrict it to an option though. I, for example, would never use such a feature like that.
I HATE games which do this.
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yeah, thats why i think it should be a flag...
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I support this idea if it does not uninstall my Windows.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
Restrict it to an option though. I, for example, would never use such a feature like that.
I HATE games which do this.
Why? (BTW - I'm pretty sure Hippo meant LOD0 - either way, he meant maximum detail for maximum Screenshot quality.
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I think what Lightspeed means is that a closer or dynamic scale distance is something that he does not like in games, though I could be wrong. I've seen one game scale dynamically where it's really noticable and that's HW2, but there you can turn it off. It isn't that much of an issue though because I doubt that there has been any intentional change of the LOD calculations. Could it be that it's far enough away from the camera center to be tripping into another LOD, even though it's in the foreground of the scene?
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Originally posted by StratComm
I think what Lightspeed means is that a closer or dynamic scale distance is something that he does not like in games, though I could be wrong. I've seen one game scale dynamically where it's really noticable and that's HW2, but there you can turn it off. It isn't that much of an issue though because I doubt that there has been any intentional change of the LOD calculations. Could it be that it's far enough away from the camera center to be tripping into another LOD, even though it's in the foreground of the scene?
That's recisely why we want them all to default to LOD0 when you go into Alt-Pause mode. Singh took a screenie not long ago where an Arcadia was in the foreground of the shot, but far enough from the player to be at lod 2 or 3 or something, and it was really noticable.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Why? (BTW - I'm pretty sure Hippo meant LOD0 - either way, he meant maximum detail for maximum Screenshot quality.
No no StratComm, BW understood me right on the first try. As to why - it's called cheating. A game that switches stuff for screenies is cheating it's way to better screenshots. Not only will taking a screenshot now mean HORRIFIC slowdown and stuttering (loading all the models to LOD0, even those that normally would never change 'cause theyre far off) - it will also slow down the mission AFTER taking the screenshot. Not to mention if there's any bugs with LODs you will not be able to demonstrate with screenies, because hey hey - SCP keeps changing them around for screenies.
It's one of those features I absolutely hate in games. If I hit printscrn I want an image of what I see on my screen, not what i'd like to see there.
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which is why it was asked to be optional.
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I can see why LS hates it. It only takes some fool taking shots in Beauty Mode and showing them off on another site claiming that they are in-game shots to ruin the reputation of the SCP.
That said things like this would drastically improve the quality of things like Singh's comic. Not everyone has the time, skill and money to use a 3D renderer so I can understand why people would want this.
Make it optional and warn people to not attempt to pass off Beauty Mode shots as in-game ones and I'll be okay with the idea :)
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Same deal as with my high-res animated glowmaps. They're meant for cutscenes, renders, and future possibilities, but not really for in-game. :)
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Why have this just for screenshots? Have an option to display everything in LOD1, all the time. Then it's not cheating and becomes considerably more useful.
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I assume you mean LOD0 :) LOD1 is rather ugly in comparison.
The idea of the LODs is to spead up the game. Using LOD0 would cause a horrendous slowdown in the game.
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Yeah whichever LOD is the most detailed.
I doubt it would cause any noticeable slowdown for those of us with even average systems unless every ship happens to be 5000 polys. Considering lower LODs use the same textures in virtually all POFs (and it's these that are the real system killers) I can't see there being much difference for someone with a Radeon 9600 or better.
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It's not the polies, it's the textures.
The LODs are a bit useless as it is now. Some modeller should re-do all the volition LODs to something useful in today's standards. (both poly and texture-wise).
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how about -forcelod 0
-forcelod 1
-forcelod 2
and so on? I have details at the highest, and its disheartening when i take a screenshot, and the orion that is 200m away is on lod2 already... Something drfinately changed, because i can do the same thing in retail, and the lower lods are MUCH further away...
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If it bothers you that much, change the TBL lod values....
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Originally posted by aldo_14
If it bothers you that much, change the TBL lod values....
But that would utterly defeat the purpose. Here's the pic in question:
(http://www.sectorfiles.com/FSCZ/dreadangels.jpg)
See the Arcadia in the Foreground? I would imagine Singh (who took the shot) is one of the fighter sized dots over closer to the hatshetsup. In order to get the shot he wanted, he needed to zoom out really far, past the Arcadia, resulting in what you see here. Changing the Lod values would work, yes, but in doing so slow the game down needlessly.
Lightspeed: Your two major beefs are easily addressed
First, it should only come into place when Alt-Pause is pressed, so it wont affect your framerate. Secondly, the Alt Pause feature is designed for procuring beauty shots. Plus it's not as though we'd be doing anything duplicitous - we'd still be taking screenies of the ingame models, under in game conditions, just avoiding stuff like you see above.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
It's not the polies, it's the textures.
The LODs are a bit useless as it is now. Some modeller should re-do all the volition LODs to something useful in today's standards. (both poly and texture-wise).
You would haved to pay someone to do that. That job would suck so much I can't even begin to tell ya. Noway would I work allday and then come home to do that.
How do you take remote camera ingame screenies BTW ?
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Another thing about alt pause, its oferly hard to do on my laptop in a short period of time, as you have to find alt, hold it down, hold Fn down (since Pause is a function of F11) and then press F11... I wouldn't mind being able to re-map that (and the pause key)... For example, some number keys (since only 1-4 are used)...
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Since when do arcadias look like that from that kinda range?
Sure as hell don't on my screen at any kinda range.
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yeah, i've been seeing lower LOD's a lot lately... like, LOD's 'd NEVER seen with retail... I might follow aldo's advice, and just make everything use LOD1...
Oh, and i didn't mean LOD0 earlier, thats the debris level...
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It all depends on where you're looking. Modview refers to them as LOD1, 2, 3, 4 and debris, but PCS and I believe the convention in the game is LOD0, 1, 2, 3 and debris. It's a matter of syntax more than anything else.
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yeah, i noticed that a minute ago when i opened max, and had to name the lod detail-0 ...
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I did make a change to my ships. tbl, as i noticed earlier that there were some really strange numbers in there -- most notably the Hippocrates and Nephilim. These two ships have ridiculously low values assigned for them. Many Shivan fighters also have very low numbers assigned. The Ravana's values are much lower than other destroyers.
Basically I made every fighter and bomber use (0, 300, 500, 1500), every freighter/CA/Cv use (0, 1200, 2400, 5500), Destroyers (0, 4500, 9000, 22000) and Juggernauts, Arcadia and Boadicea (0, 5000, 25000, 40000).
I figured that these changes would mean I would not again need look at the ugly LODs at a distance where it would matter. Nevertheless, distant ships would just use a few pollies, and thus my system wouldn't get overly clogged up. It seems to work well enough....
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Originally posted by SadisticSid
Why have this just for screenshots? Have an option to display everything in LOD1, all the time. Then it's not cheating and becomes considerably more useful.
Thats a good idea. I second the idea.