Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Carl on September 03, 2004, 02:59:01 pm
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discuss.
(this is not a debate on wether or not it is vandalism. it's a discussion based on the fact that it definately is, and why it is still legal.)
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It makes money for people, therefore it is legal.
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Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
It makes money for people, therefore it is legal.
So do many things that are illegal.
(http://www.politicsforum.org/images/humour/stfu.jpg)
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van·dal·ism Audio pronunciation of "vandalism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vndl-zm)
n.
Willful or malicious destruction of public or private property.
Since adware doesn't destroy anything, public or private, it cannot be placed under 'vandalism'.
It's highly annoying but it isn't vandalism.
Originally posted by Carl
(this is not a debate on wether or not it is vandalism. it's a discussion based on the fact that it definately is, and why it is still legal.)
And because of that, your post is moot to begin with. It isn't a fact that it is because it isn't. Period.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
So do many things that are illegal.
Makes money for people in power then.
And what exactly was the need for posting that pic?
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i think he was telling you to shut the **** up, and to think before you post.
i may be wrong...
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That's not my gripe. It's the size of it.
There are smaller STFU pictures about.
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It makes money for people without end user's permission (most of the time anyways.) Adware is the biggest nuisance ever beucase of that and probably is illegal.
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Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Adware is the biggest nuisance ever beucase of that and probably is illegal.
By that reasoning an ass-itch is illigal... because it's a nuisance.
:p
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No worse than someone sticking a Pizza Menu through the door, if people stopped buying the Pizzas, they wouldn't do it ;)
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Originally posted by Tiara
Since adware doesn't destroy anything, public or private, it cannot be placed under 'vandalism'.
It's highly annoying but it isn't vandalism.
And because of that, your post is moot to begin with. It isn't a fact that it is because it isn't. Period.
As Shakespear would say with irony, I say with conviction:
"Bull****".
Come over to my house sometime and I'll show you what adware did to my last computer. Electronic data can be, and is considered "property" and I've already had one machine destroyed to the point of a full rebuild because some ****head in Nigeria wanted to sell me Viagra.
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Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
That's not my gripe. It's the size of it.
There are smaller STFU pictures about.
Small monitor? I just saw it and I liked it. That's why I used it.
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I've had Adware screw up Internet Explorer for me certainly, but then, Spybot seems to deal with it no problem. I suppose if it became too much of a pain, I could always switch to Firefox or the like :)
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
Small monitor? I just saw it and I liked it. That's why I used it.
1024x768. It's just that no images larger than about 320x240 should be posted unless they're screenshots or photos.
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Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
1024x768. It's just that no images larger than about 320x240 should be posted unless they're screenshots or photos.
:(
cry about it...
What are you two trying to accomplish? :wtf:
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Nothing, just wanting to know what Petrarch's problem is with a not that large picture.
/me kicks thread. "Get back on topic!"
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Anyway...
Adware is just annoying spyware is illegal... isn't it illegal?
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My problem is that it's size to usefulness ratio is about 34:1.
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Would you please get back to shoveling **** and salt in Siberia... NO ONE CARES!!!
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graphitti isn't destructive, but it's still vandalsim, because it's nearly impossible to get rid of. i've got a few adware programs that i cannot uninstall, i've tried using their uninstall utilities, but it never uninstalls them. i've tried the add/remove programs menu, but either they aren't even listed, or they are listed, but clicking the remove button does nothing. i've tried deleting the files in the program files folder, but they are write incrypted, so i can't. and they do, in fact, do damage to my computer. they cause crashes and errors all the time.
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Why should that stop me?
I'm only trying to bring a little diversity to an otherwise dull and cyclical topic.
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Originally posted by Carl
graphitti isn't destructive, but it's still vandalsim, because it's nearly impossible to get rid of. i've got a few adware programs that i cannot uninstall, i've tried using their uninstall utilities, but it never uninstalls them. i've tried the add/remove programs menu, but either they aren't even listed, or they are listed, but clicking the remove button does nothing. i've tried deleting the files in the program files folder, but they are write incrypted, so i can't. and they do, in fact, do damage to my computer. they cause crashes and errors all the time.
Me to...
I have a adware problem that runs in memory and I can't get rid of, it's silly
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Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
I'm only trying to bring a little diversity to an otherwise dull and cyclical topic.
Instead you're being obnoxious, start your own dull and cyclical thread and spam it...
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Adware sneaks onto my computer without my knowledge, takes up space on my hard drive, slows down my machine, ****s with my web browser so using the internet is more difficult, and makes itself nigh on impossible to get rid of even though I didn't want it there in the first place. If that isn't screwing with my property I don't know what is.
Damn you HotSnoJ, way to use my pictures! :p
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Originally posted by ionia23
As Shakespear would say with irony, I say with conviction:
"Bull****".
Come over to my house sometime and I'll show you what adware did to my last computer. Electronic data can be, and is considered "property" and I've already had one machine destroyed to the point of a full rebuild because some ****head in Nigeria wanted to sell me Viagra.
As I would say with conviction;
"Shove it where the sun don't shine."
Anything that disrupts or damages your system ISN'T[/b] adware. It's called MALWARE.
(mal´wãr) (n.) Short for malicious software, software designed specifically to damage or disrupt a system
Adware doesn't destroy a damned thing. It just plants ads and unwanted material on your computer but DOESN'T do **** besides annoy the crap out of ya.
People need to get their facts straight around here. Specifically these kind of terms. It's easy to switch them around but it's so very wrong.
Malware is illigal since it indeed damages private property. Adware doesn't. Period. :rolleyes:
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So what if is it classified, when you got a program that displays ads on your computer and runs in memory? :p
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It doesn't have to be intentionally destructive to be destructive. The adware on my hard drive is slowing down my computer and it's taking up a ****load of space. Other people taking up space on my god damn drive with their useless advertisements-- call it what you want, but it should be illegal.
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Damn you HotSnoJ, way to use my pictures! :p
Then I'd say you are a man of impeccable tastes.
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Ok, people.
STOP VISITING THOSE DAMNED FREE PORN SITES!
That'll take care of your adware problems :p You horny buggers... ;)
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Originally posted by Tiara
Anything that disrupts or damages your system ISN'T adware. It's called MALWARE.
[/B]
negative. malware is something that's designed intentionally to damage a system. a lot of stuff's done unintentionally that ends up damaging a system. for example, let's look at multiple popups. on a slow computer, multiple popups = CPU and RAM consumption, which can lead to a computer freeze. information can be lost that you were busy with, since you have to reboot. and no, it's not just porn sites that have lots of popups (although granted they're by far the majority ;) :D)...
although overall i agree with you... i'd say as a whole, adware is just annoying as hell, not vandalism.
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If adware is user-installed (manually, not by being shown a 'install this program' prompt and a ream of small print), makes it obvious to the user when it is running (via a startup window, tray icon, etc), and is easily uninstallable (i.e. has a start menu group with a clearly visible uninstall), then I wouldn't consider it malware / vandalism.
Otherwise, it's the technological equivalent of someone stalking you in order to phone you up every 10 minutes to shout an advertising slogan at you.
NB: Tiara - adware can be considered malware in that it usually disrupts both the running of a system (gathering user browsing habits and sending it, for example), and the use of it by a user. This is an intentional disruption - adware intentionally intterrupts your system use to make you look at adverts, for example.
If you consider adware which also acts as spyware, that disruption also applies to potential effects of uploading data (i.e. bandwidth usage when sending your personal information to advertisers).
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[color=66ff00]Ummm, question:
How do you guys pick up adware?
I don't run IE, it isn't even a part of my win2k install actually which is strange because M$ claims they can't remove it from the OS otherwise windows just wouldn't work.
I have Zone alarm running so if in the event that any program did manage to install itself it couldn't access the net in any case as Zone Alarm allows access on a program basis and not on a port usage basis (much better IMHO).
I never install anything I don't need.
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Wake up one morning and it's there...
I don't get it anymore though, but I can't get rid of it :(
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Ummm, question:
How do you guys pick up adware?
I don't run IE, it isn't even a part of my win2k install actually which is strange because M$ claims they can't remove it from the OS otherwise windows just wouldn't work.
I have Zone alarm running so if in the event that any program did manage to install itself it couldn't access the net in any case as Zone Alarm allows access on a program basis and not on a port usage basis (much better IMHO).
I never install anything I don't need.
[/color]
I've not had adware since I switched to Firefox (and not for a while before that). Did have it once, though - a program called 'savenow' which popped up adverts regularly. It took me a while to realise what it was, because I assumed the 'savenow' process was some backer-upper process that I needed.
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I have rarely ever seen adware/spyware that wasnt malware at the same time. Those little programs run so inefficiently, take up so much internet bandwidth (which is absolutely killer for 56k modem users) and hard drive space that its hard to not cause harm to the users computer. In addition to that about 99% of them cant even be unistalled without a 3rd party software. I think eventually this will discourage many internet users.
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so... why not get some really anoying firewall that will ***** you for any connection you or any other program in or out of your pc atempts to make?
Maeglamor, are you sure you don't have IE? Try opening the windows explorer and putting in a web address.
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right now the major adware players on my puter are messagebroadcaster.net and searchassistant.net, both from Odysseus Marketing, a spam company owned by the infamous Walt Rines.
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I really just get DSO exploits plonked into my recent Internet files, I think they are cookies ;)
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Graffiti IS destructive you plonkers! Think about it, if you graffiti an historic building you're damaging its image, you're lowering its value and making it undesirable to people. It has much the same effect as smashing a hole in the wall. Of course a bit of nasty spraypaint can be fixed a tad easier than the latter but the destruction is obvious; it takes time and effort to put right.
Adware is similar to this. In 99% of cases its installation is not explicitly given consent. It takes time and effort (in some cases a great deal, because some programs can re-install themselves if a user tries to remove them forcefully) to get rid of and lessens the value of the computer by slowing it down, aggravating users by spewing up advertising garbage and lessens the overall appeal of using the PC. It's a fairly accurate analogy.
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I _never_ had adware on my PC. However, University is crawling with it meaning some bastard's been looking up porn...
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Is this topic really necessary?
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Does it really matter?
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Well considering the first couple of posts were actually just insulting the first one, I'd say yes.
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Have you read anything but the first couple of post?
Why are you making a big deal about this?
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Originally posted by Tiara
As I would say with conviction;
"Shove it where the sun don't shine."
Anything that disrupts or damages your system ISN'T adware. It's called MALWARE.
Adware doesn't destroy a damned thing. It just plants ads and unwanted material on your computer but DOESN'T do **** besides annoy the crap out of ya.
People need to get their facts straight around here. Specifically these kind of terms. It's easy to switch them around but it's so very wrong.
Malware is illigal since it indeed damages private property. Adware doesn't. Period. :rolleyes: [/B]
Midaddle brought my system to it's knees, amoung others. Yet another application designed to scan my system and punch as much crap into it as possible with no regard for overloading it. If it disrupts what I'm trying to do, if it damages or corrupts my system by doing things it isn't supposed to, that is vandalism.
And, if I may, go **** yourself :)
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another thing, I believe that it may have corrupted Windows XP, because of an issue it is having with some software i NEED for school.
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IF someone's stupid program is lodged in my computer with non-consent or worse allowed but unremovable when I try and it slows down or crashes FRED, Modelview, or any 3d app I am trying to mod with, then that company goes on my **** list of people that need to be spammed and virused themselves!!!
Users of the world must unite and fight back any way they can, if Johnny Law won't (or can't) then "F" the man, we can do it ourselves...
If millions of SETI buggers are willing to run that program in a futile attempt to find ET why not do the same type thing like in TRON and have a MCP ourselves all running on our computers when we are not using them to help police the net and punish spammers and virus companies with continual and relentless attacks...
Time to think big kiddies...
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I have no problem with consensual adware, however when it is installed with no prompt and no way of refusal, that is when I have a gripe with it. The worst offender lately has been CoolWebSearch and its many variants.
Personally I think the ****ers that write this **** should be shot for being slimy marketing wankers, though thats pretty much the way I feel about all people in the marketing industry.
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While we're on the topic of adware and such... some useful utilities:
http://www.mlin.net/StartupMonitor.shtml <-- Startup monitor, warns you whenever an app is trying to install itself to auto-startup. You can then allow it or disallow it. Helpful for keeping adware from installing in the first place.
http://www.mlin.net/StartupCPL.shtml <-- A good startup management program.
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Is this topic really necessary?
What is necessity? Is our need for meaning defined by an external source? And if so, what are the implications regarding the course of our existence? If not, what is the nature of this self-contained universe of standards? Where did it come from? How much does it constrain us? What is free will? Are we bound to a fate because of an inescapable pattern of reasoning?
Did Agent Pink die?
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Agent Pink lives within our souls... ;7
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No! In Space!
GATHERING POWER!
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For what? An uber strike on earth to wipe out all that is known to humanity?!
*gasp* :eek2:
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I really hate Adware