Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: InfernoGod on September 06, 2004, 06:06:03 pm
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Lol, k, so, just on the curiousness factor, which campaigns, if a Hall of Fame existed on HLP, would u think earn the right of being in there? Oh, and don't say Derelict, cuz i know that's already one that u'r all gonna say!:p
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Homesick.
Especially the T-V Battlefield part...and the GTVI nebula (so the GTVA already HAD found a nebula...)...and the part with the ten suns("Horrible...how can it even work that way?!"), and they find the shivans...SO MANY MOMENTS!
Homesick. Yup. Homesick is THE campaign.
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Warzone.
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can't let my vote go un-noticed, lol, so, i vote BlackWater Operations and Machina Terra as possible cadidates for the Hall of Fame
and, let's add MindGames to that list.
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Dues Ex Machina.
A very creative game. Really awesome twist on the genre. Can't leave that one out :)
Oh! Oh! And Just Another Day had a lot of great improvements over DEM. I thought it was better, in fact.
That's my (uh...1...2...3...) three cents.
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For greatest, I'd have to say Homesick. It pwnz my soul, particularly since Homesick involved absolutely no mods but was great anyways. The characters, the storyline, everything was good. My favorite moments from that were the destruction of the Guevera, the moment when you suddenly realize that you're looking at a Rakshasa and it's the Shivans, and the raid on the GTVI cargo depot. The references to the Hades and the Colossus were also pretty funny.
Derelict would have beat it, but there were some kinda obvious errors in the FREDding. (One that really comes to mind is when the Cypher said it was firing, but it didn't actually fire.) On the other hand, nothing quite compares with the "Oh HELL" moment when you hear the Narlathotep transmit a Shivan signal.
Deus Ex Machina (You know you're playing a great humor campaign when the first thing you scan has a cargo of "Deep Plot Holes") and Just Another Day are tied for best humor campaign. DEM made me laugh more often, but I laughed longer about Just Another Day.
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BWO looks great and is my candidate for the Hall of Fame, Homesick is the best non mod campaign ever.
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can any one point me to Just another day so i can look at it myself.
if i have to vote i would have to say INF chapter 1 did have its moments. for instance when you see the nemisis do a nano subspace jump on i believe it was the independence and you think HOLY ****
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Inf. Chapter 1 DID have its moments, like when the GIGAS jumps in!!! Nano-jumping?! HA! That doesn't even compare (that was pretty cool though).
Heck, Inferno should win this just for the large amount of new ships. But since this is about missions....the Gigas mission is awesome. End of story.
But I think Homesick should win. It had way more 'moments,' and some cool character development (Beta 4's Seth, anyone? :p ).
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IMO those tons of new ships are just the reason Inferno would LOSE this. No wantey to risk flames or anything here, though.
The best campaign ever is, of course, Homesick. Derelict ain't bad either, but it doesn't reach Homesick's quality BY A MILE.
Homesick isn't just a campaign. I'll say it once more, it's THE campaign. ;7
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I played three user made campaigns yet: Derelict, Homesick and DEM. None of them belong to the Hall of fame. Derelict rather belongs to the hall of shame.
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Derelict would be in the hall of fame, if not for three things:
1) Second loop, mission 3: What the crap is going on!? Yeah, you're under attack, by cloaked fighters, but you have no support because your friends die so quickly, so you're left with a choice of stopping the jamming and getting the plot moving, or protecting the ship.
It's ludicrous, and no explanation is given at all for half the events in the loop. Considering how long it takes for campaigns to be released, I'd rather know something now than wait four years for answers.
2) After the halfway point, no effort whatsoever was made to mess with the Team Loadout screen. You could get Terran Maras and Kaysers about half the time. Bah I say.
3) A good number of the Section 3 missions seemed rushed. Extremely so.
Despite this, Derelict has a lot of good moments ("Wake up sleepyhead!"), and would be in the hall of fame if these bugs were fixed. The level of civilian involvement (especially in the early missions) is something that I have yet to see emulated in any other campaigns save Homesick. Loop2-1 especially impressed me on this score -- even 20 minutes into the mission, transports are still coming and going. GTVA Navy vessels aren't the only things in space, people! :D
In the hall of fame for me would be:
- Warzone (A lot of good gameplay, despite the slight bias towards bombing missions. This was the campaign that taught me how to dogfight in a Boanerges with Maxim cannons.)
- Homesick (this actually inspired my current project, Heroes for Hire... this is THE campaign. Seriously.)
- Awakenings (Yeah, it's FS1, but who cares? I'm just waiting for the ported version... *pokes the FSPort team*)
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I'm in agreement on that. "Derelict" was awesome beyond description. It was so good, in my opinion, that with some debugging, voice acting, and a few mods it would have made an excellent expansion pack to FS2, like Silent Threat was to FS1, only better.
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Twilight. Awakenings,Warzone and Derelict belong to Hall of Fame
oh and Homesick too
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Derelict, Warzone, Sol: A history, and homesick
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I definately should have included Sol, Homesick, and hell, anything written for Inferno.
Blackwater Ops would be in there too pending it was more complete. It has the added advantage of voice acting.
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I played three user made campaigns yet: Derelict, Homesick and DEM. None of them belong to the Hall of fame. Derelict rather belongs to the hall of shame.
Interesting analysis, what exactly is bad about Derelict? I know that a few of the missions I played didn't work correctly, nor did I ever get to play the final loop mission (versus the upgraded Orion).
A few of the problems I had with Derelict were storyline considerations, like shivans ships which regenerated or the few subspace missions. But on the whole it was fairly enjoyable.
I'm actually going to be mentioning the Derelict plot in my own Campaign. It won't have any significance other than talking about its economic impact. The main reason is actually because I was going to use the Saphah. Cool ship.
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Wow, I see that Warzone and Homesick would be *definate* winners. I'd agree with Inferno too, but I think it's a little too early to actually place it somewhere. It could pull a Reciprocity, like so many other great campaigns are...:(
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Nah, Inferno is too popular for that to happen.
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I am ashamed to say that I play barely any user made campaigns, exceptions being Homesick and DEM. I tried Inferno but my interests went somewhere else before I could play much of it.
I have a few backlogged Mods I've been meaning to play but I'm waiting to get my new computer to enjoy them in SCPy goodness. :D
Back on topic, Homesick, no contest.
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Meh you people are too young or too forgetful.
Derelict is a number 1. competitor for the Hall for its age alone.
It came out when such campaigns were present like the Aeos Affair - that was quite good too - along with Trinity. I guess the either of those used the nanojumping for the first time.
Derelict is very old, so unlike recent campaigns the designers were forced to work with a not so handy FRED.
Blaise blazed all of use with Homesick - I admit I have yet to play Sol - and he should be the guru of all campaign designers for he made all the things a campaign should do perfectly.
I also nominate Pandora's Box. It was a good campaign, but compared to those two masterpieces it falls short as average. It still shows everyone what can be done with just doing thing well and nice - though not as spectacularly as Homesick or Derelict.
BTW only completed projects should be nominated - let's give 'em one more reason to go back to work :p.
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I agree with Flaser. Pandora's Box and Aeos Affair also deserve honorable mentions. :nod:
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Well, I just finished Homesick after having half-completed it before and I'll agree with everyone else that it was very good. Though I wouldn't say it was _THE_ campaign. The problem I have with homesick, and similar campaigns is that there is a need for a suspension of disbelief.
The thing about Homesick is that the allied ships, and the allied fighters get their butts kicked mission after mission but are always 100% for the next sortie (with a few red alert exceptions). So as the player you have to forget about that, and just have fun. In the FS2 main campaign for example, there may be a Sobek in three missions one after another, but its a different sobek each time.
Homesick is good in the character development department (though they'd almost certainly have to be mercs for their un-professionalism) and the story in general is pretty good. Though I don't adhere to some of the premises in the story either, such as any-ship exploding in subspace = a subspace collapse. It's a good device to begin the story, but is contradictory to the FS2 campaign (just another suspension of disbelief).
Something like Derelict is good, but has its faults as well. Such as regenerating shivans, or the shivan-knossos summoning ritual or whatever the heck was going on.
In the same way, Warzone is pretty good. But I never fully bought the whole mind-control bit.
So basically, to me any campaign which is:
A) Finished
B) Fun
. . . belongs in the hall of fame. There's no need to leave out campaigns, if even one person has a good time playing a campaign then it was worth making. The more missions the merrier I say . . . and in the end everyone will have their favourites.
Personally, I still like the official Volition campaigns the best, Silent Threat not included.
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Though I don't adhere to some of the premises in the story either, such as any-ship exploding in subspace = a subspace collapse. It's a good device to begin the story, but is contradictory to the FS2 campaign (just another suspension of disbelief).
This does NOT contradict the FS2 campaign. The only ship ever destroyed in subspace in the FS2 campaign is the Bastion, and guess what - it seals off the node.
Originally posted by Flaser
Derelict is very old, so unlike recent campaigns the designers were forced to work with a not so handy FRED.
FRED was much handier back then.
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
The thing about Homesick is that the allied ships, and the allied fighters get their butts kicked mission after mission but are always 100% for the next sortie (with a few red alert exceptions). So as the player you have to forget about that, and just have fun.
Homesick was written before Goober added Persistant Variables to FS2_Open. Back then having ships be damaged in the next mission was possible but generally more trouble than it was worth. Now it's a lot easier :)
Originally posted by Lightspeed
This does NOT contradict the FS2 campaign. The only ship ever destroyed in subspace in the FS2 campaign is the Bastion, and guess what - it seals off the node.
It was stuffed with Meson bombs though. :D
Again I figure it's just a case of people interprating canon differently.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
This does NOT contradict the FS2 campaign. The only ship ever destroyed in subspace in the FS2 campaign is the Bastion, and guess what - it seals off the node.
Actually, if you want to get technical, the GTD Nereid was also blown up at the end of the campaign, to seal off Capella from Vega.
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I have heard from somebody that an exploding large ship is not a danget to the stability of a jump node. The Lucifer's and the Bastion's explosions were so strong that they were enough to collapse a node. Still remember that both of these ships exploded while they were still 'warping into' or 'warping out of' the subspace tunnel.
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This is a situation where you can decide whatever you want for your campaigns as far as I'm concerned. As far as canon goes only three ships were ever destroyed in subspace and they all closed nodes. All three were either entering or leaving subspace at the time. The two orions were stuffed wit meson bombs and the lucifer was undergoing a catastrophic chain reaction at the time.
With so little evidence you can't really make a definative statement. The two extremes are.
1. Any capship blown up in a tunnel destroys the tunnel. Command mearly put meson bombs on the Orion to be certain it would collapse the node as no one has ever done experiments to discover the magnitude of the explosion needed to collapse a node
2. Subspace tunnels can be collapsed only an explosion of sufficient magnitude and even then only when the ship is entering or exiting subspace.
Personally I tend to lean towards 2 but if someone else wants to put the damage needed at 1 or anywhere between the two I've got no reason to say that they're wrong.
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The TV war was heavily centred around node blockading though, wasn't it? Surely the Lucifer wouldn't be the first ship to explode exiting a node in that case?
Anyways, Karas right - whatver the mission designer decides.
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What makes you think they did collapse several jump nodes intentionally during the Terran-Vasudan war? FS1 Command should have known about the consequence of catching the Lucifer ONLY inside subspace?
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Derelict was awesome. 'Twas where I stole the idea of characters and things (and not books and stuff. That's just dumb).
Now, is difficult for me to respond to certain things without it seeming like I'm whinging about criticism of my stuff. I'd just like to say that these are all totally valid points being brought up and everything... I'se just offering explanations, not excuses or defences or anything. A'right? :)
The thing about Homesick is that the allied ships, and the allied fighters get their butts kicked mission after mission but are always 100% for the next sortie (with a few red alert exceptions). So as the player you have to forget about that, and just have fun.
I've always preferred to think on smaller scales... a cruiser or corvette is a massive ship, never mind the destroyers and such. A milieu where space is bigger and ships are smaller appeals to me more... where you don't need a destroyer to control a system, where the Taranis really is a threat and Destroyer of Worlds... this, I s'pose, is a reflection of that.
But yeah.
any-ship exploding in subspace = a subspace collapse
Well, then again, the Laramis-Blue Nebula and Dubbe-Shivan Giant nodes were very unstable, barely capable of carrying ships between systems. The explosion from a dying destroyer could do for them what a destroyer+meson bombs or superdestroyer+reactors does to the more well-established stable jump nodes of Sol-Delta Serpentis, Vega-Capella and Epsilon Pegasi-Capella.
Perhaps.
So basically, to me any campaign which is:
A) Finished
B) Fun
. . . belongs in the hall of fame.
Indeed. :yes:
Although... what about B-Campaigns? Them too?
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Originally posted by aldo_14
The TV war was heavily centred around node blockading though, wasn't it? Surely the Lucifer wouldn't be the first ship to explode exiting a node in that case?
Anyways, Karas right - whatver the mission designer decides.
That's why I lean towards the second one. That said capships didn't get killed anywhere near as often in pre-FS1 times, the loss of an Orion was seen as a huge blow but they're dropping like flies in FS2 :D )
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Originally posted by TopAce
What makes you think they did collapse several jump nodes intentionally during the Terran-Vasudan war? FS1 Command should have known about the consequence of catching the Lucifer ONLY inside subspace?
I didn't say they intentionally or unintentionally collapsed nodes in th TV war. Just that they blockaded them and would have destroyed ships as they were arriving (think WW1 trench warfare)
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Cardinal Spear. I know its FS1 but still, the last mission of the first episode. Battle of Endor, maybe but still fun.
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Indeed.
Although... what about B-Campaigns? Them too?
Well I haven't played any B-campaigns, but if someone has a lot of fun playing them then why not? It really depends upon how much effort the designer put into the missions. If they just put down super ships all over the place and finished the mission in a half hour and didn't playtest it and put in less events than Silent Threat then maybe it's in the B-side hall of fame.
But if somone puts a lot of work into a campaign but it's still "B" just because of their lack of ability then maybe it should be hall of fame for effort alone.
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Hmm, I don't know how many people will agree with this but I liked The Second Great War Part 2, I know it had a lot of Jugs but I liked the storyline and there was some good action as well
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The lack of attention to the team loadouts and the misfiring (assuming it was even there, I don't know) fire-beam sexp really are what disqualifed Derelict in my eyes. That and the bug associated with the Cthon, which crashed me out 11 times before the mission functioned properly.
Actually, come to think of it, maybe you were SUPPOSED to be able use SF Mara (Terrans), because that ship is disabled by default in retail-issue FRED. The Silver Scythes decided not to give the wing of them back to SOC after they borrowed them, maybe...?
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
Well I haven't played any B-campaigns, but if someone has a lot of fun playing them then why not? It really depends upon how much effort the designer put into the missions. ....
The more effort you have in a mission the better result you will achieve. It can also be the question of satisfaction. I finished a mission in one and half a day and I was completely satisfied with it.
Originally posted by ngtm1r
The lack of attention to the team loadouts and the misfiring (assuming it was even there, I don't know) fire-beam sexp really are what disqualifed Derelict in my eyes. ..
Derelict is a buggy one, indeed. It easily belongs to even 'C' campaigns.
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The lack of weapons is what disqualified Derelict in my eyes... if I only I would have known the fix! lol
I'm really surprised tho, i thought that some of the more 'known' campaigns would have been here.
As for Deus Ex Machina and Just Another Day, those belong in the Inferno Disco Asteroid Belt! :p (JAD joke, u'll get it if u played it- and if u haven't u suck! :p)
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Just be glad it wasn't the Who Let the Dogs Out Asteroid Belt.
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It's funny that everyone seems to have experienced major bugs with Derelict. I never had any problems with it. It definitely ranks as my favorite campaign. Homesick was amazing, too, especially for its character development. The only thing I didn't like was the lack of good weaponry for most of the campaign. I know you were supposed to be an independent merc, and that you wouldn't have access to the GTVA's supplies, but it did sometimes get old being forced to use Subachs mission after mission. Even with that, I had a lot of fun. The ending was downright depressing :(. Warzone, the Aeos Affair, and Renegade Reassurgence also deserve a lot of credit. As for DEM and JAD, that goes without saying :D.
Kieto, I also enjoyed the Second Great War Part 2. Yes, it had tons of uber-ships, but it was genuinely fun to play. I happen to like the Battle of Endor :p.
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At last somebody mentioned Renegade Ressurgence!
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Originally posted by TopAce
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Derelict is a buggy one, indeed. It easily belongs to even 'C' campaigns. [/B]
where you see bug's there? I haven't seen any. about RR I didn't like it so much Chatter messages were little bad of course I understant it's your first campaing, overall RR don't belong to hall of Fame, but that just me
for its character development
if you liked Character develoment then you like BWO this time alpha1 has name
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Run through the whole thread, HiG and you will notice not only I found Derelict buggy. Bear in mind that you received a pre-Final release. I could modified a few things here and there after I had given you that Exlusive release.
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My favorite campaign of all-time is still Derelict - I was playing it from the start, when it was just individual missions with voice-acting packs (Which is why my one has voice acting ;) The final version didn't have any :cries: )
My main gripe with Derelict is that it was a little buggy, but I didn't hit any major show-stoppers.
Homesick was almost perfect - It just needed Derelict's voice actors and it would be ;) (The voice actors for Derelict were superb! :D)
Homesick feels a lot like Derelict in that it has a lot of flavour-text. This is what I liked a lot about both Derelic and Homesick - The game world felt more 'alive', and the AI pilots had a lot more personality, it wasn't just shooting crap up with some faceless wingmen.
Those are the 2 best ones, but I've played a lot more besides. I can't remember all of them since I played most of them a long time ago. They included stuff like:
Aeos Affair, Vortex, the Titan Rebellion, The Special Operations Command, The Regulus campaign, LDK, Inner Troubles part 1, Enemies United and Beyond the cause.
A lot of campaigns, ranging from from pretty cool to ridiculously hard through to downright silly :D, but were all quite fun to play :)
Lessee... what else...
Ahh, the B5 mini-capmaigns, they were all pretty fun (But hard!! Bloody shockwave deaths got me so many times!!!)
And the BWO teaser, that was pretty good. The voice-acting wasn't as good as Derelict's but it definitely adds a lot to the campaign.
The Lightning Marshals wasn't bad, but I haven't played most of the recent ones since I am boycotting FilePlanet, and that's the only place you can get all the files...
This is a bit cheating, but my final favorite campaign is the multiplayer mod for the FS2 campaign. Play it on the hardest difficulty with 4 friends, great stuff :D
("Cover me you arseholes!" ; "Cover yourself, I've got 6 bloody dragons chasing me!" ; "HEEELP!" ; "Don't worry guys, I'm 2 seconds away from dropping my Heli-WTF?!" ; "Damnit man, why did you fly in front of my Trees!?" ; "I *%&%$& HATE you!!!" :lol: )
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Originally posted by Cyker
My favorite campaign of all-time is still Derelict - I was playing it from the start, when it was just individual missions with voice-acting packs (Which is why my one has voice acting ;) The final version didn't have any :cries: )
My main gripe with Derelict is that it was a little buggy, but I didn't hit any major show-stoppers.
Homesick was almost perfect - It just needed Derelict's voice actors and it would be ;) (The voice actors for Derelict were superb! :D)
Homesick feels a lot like Derelict in that it has a lot of flavour-text. This is what I liked a lot about both Derelic and Homesick - The game world felt more 'alive', and the AI pilots had a lot more personality, it wasn't just shooting crap up with some faceless wingmen.
Those are the 2 best ones, but I've played a lot more besides. I can't remember all of them since I played most of them a long time ago. They included stuff like:
Aeos Affair, Vortex, the Titan Rebellion, The Special Operations Command, The Regulus campaign, LDK, Inner Troubles part 1, Enemies United and Beyond the cause.
A lot of campaigns, ranging from from pretty cool to ridiculously hard through to downright silly :D, but were all quite fun to play :)
Lessee... what else...
Ahh, the B5 mini-capmaigns, they were all pretty fun (But hard!! Bloody shockwave deaths got me so many times!!!)
And the BWO teaser, that was pretty good. The voice-acting wasn't as good as Derelict's but it definitely adds a lot to the campaign.
The Lightning Marshals wasn't bad, but I haven't played most of the recent ones since I am boycotting FilePlanet, and that's the only place you can get all the files...
This is a bit cheating, but my final favorite campaign is the multiplayer mod for the FS2 campaign. Play it on the hardest difficulty with 4 friends, great stuff :D
("Cover me you arseholes!" ; "Cover yourself, I've got 6 bloody dragons chasing me!" ; "HEEELP!" ; "Don't worry guys, I'm 2 seconds away from dropping my Heli-WTF?!" ; "Damnit man, why did you fly in front of my Trees!?" ; "I *%&%$& HATE you!!!" :lol: )
Cyker could you upload your version of Derelict somewhere? AFAIK Volition Watch Archieves are down. It's pretty hard to come by.
Some people will definitly try to do smg. with it - hmm...now if I think about it a Derelict - Reborn project doesn't sound so farfetched.
A minor thing: are all the missions voiceacted?
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It wouldn't be hard to fix the mistakes in Derelict, or at least the FREDding ones. I could see that, which is why I'm not happy with the campaign.
Now, the Cthon jumps in and cue FS2 crash, I dunno about that.
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Yeah I got that too. I used cheats and Shift-K so i could get too next one. Perhaps just re-do it from scratch that's what I do if a mission goes harikari. Boring though.
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re. Derelict Voices; No, only the missions they first released separately have Voice Acting. The rest of the missions you only got once the final release came out, and as I said they didn't have any voices :(
As for the upload, anyone got a good place I can put them? I'll package it in a ZIP with all the directories laid out correctly so all you got to do is unpack it in the DATA directory of your choice and stick the Derelict.VP in the right place :)
(The Zip'd WAVs are a little under 8MB)