Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: kasperl on September 12, 2004, 09:43:11 am
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I currently have 2 computers, a TV, a speaker set, an MP3 player, and some more **** in my room, all running through a combination of fire hazards called outlet splitters. Soon, another computer, plus another set of speakers will be added.
I want to make my own switchbox thingy, allowing me to switch all the power around by flipping a switch, per application (printer, monitors, etc), without me crawling under my desk. All nice and hole up behind a nice wooden panel. (In the colour of my desk, too, I can wreck the drawers I removed from it for that.)
Now, aside from basic high school stuff involving LED's, a single thyristor and some iron wire, this will be my first attempt at electronics. I need to submit a good worked out drawing to my dad, because otherwise he won't let me hook it up to the mains. I'd also like to know what I'm looking at for cost for switching mains with nice small switches, with LED's and stuff. In short, this is the help I need:
- The name of a good circuit drawing program. (Lines, recuring symbols, snapped-to-grid, colour coding if possible.)
- An idea about the cost of a system to switch power to all the stuff, plus some macro switches. (Switches for "Printer" "Monitor1" "Monitor2" "Laptop" and one for "All PC's". Nothing will be hooked up to two groups at the same time. (A single tree, nothing interwoven.))
- A way to switch all the signal LED's off at the same time, so I won't have a friggin' christmas tree when I go to bed.
- An idea about nessecary cooling and ventilation.
- Is it a good idea to put it all in a big metal box? If so, how much does sheet metal cost?
As for the prices, just give me an estimate, like the number of digits I'd be looking at.
Thanks in advance.
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hrmm, well.. first off
http://bach.ece.jhu.edu/~tim/programs/xcircuit/
and it's sorta the job for a qualified electrician..
also, it sounds like you need onna these:
(http://www.flinders.edu.au/ohsw/Electric/Powerboard.GIF)
http://www.ausparc.com/shop/index.php?cPath=35
you can get some with as many as 10, all surge protected..
price-wise.. shouldn't cost too much, as long as you know what you're doing..:nod:
mains power ain't something to be taken lightly, i myself have absorbed my fair share of mains in my life time.. not fun.;)
metal's okay, but do it wrong, and the whole thing's live..
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Well, I'd need one with europlugs, but those things are big, annoying, and cause a lot of tangled up wires. Basicly, my current setup, but with surge protection.
As for the program, I was hoping for something that'd run on windows as an exe, not requiring me to install yet another compiler, and learn how to work with that too......
edit:
About the metal, I was thinking about hooking it up to the earth(ground) wire of the mains, so that if I would do anything wrong, the only thing that happens is that the power shorts into the ground, meaning a circuit breaker trips and I get charged by an angry family watching "that important episode of .... ".
As for me taking the mains lightly, I was hoping to use as much off the shelf stuff as possible, using those screw split thingy's they use in most lamp outlets, and not too much soldering.
And the whole thing will off course be tested before use using those multimeter thingy's.
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Originally posted by kasperl
Well, I'd need one with europlugs, but those things are big, annoying, and cause a lot of tangled up wires. Basicly, my current setup, but with surge protection.
As for the program, I was hoping for something that'd run on windows as an exe, not requiring me to install yet another compiler, and learn how to work with that too......
http://www.web-ee.com/Downloads/Tools/tools.htm
okay, you're gonna have a ****load of cables floating about the place, regardless.. those were just a suggestion, you should be able to find a euro version at your local hardware store.. i have three of 'em :p
edit: i getcha, try finding those little joiner thingies they use in the walls for joining two strands of mains wire together.
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Ah, ok.
Thanks for the link, downloading in a minute...
The idea would be to try and keep as much of the cabling as possible behind a front, so I won't have three loops of cabling all over the place.
Another question, what is the easiest way to double an audio INPUT for use with 2 machines at the same time? (So my music and the beeps from the other computer go through one set of speakers.) Simply making one PC with a whole bunch of sound cards, or some clever soldering option?
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Originally posted by kasperl
Ah, ok.
Thanks for the link, downloading in a minute...
The idea would be to try and keep as much of the cabling as possible behind a front, so I won't have three loops of cabling all over the place.
Another question, what is the easiest way to double an audio INPUT for use with 2 machines at the same time? (So my music and the beeps from the other computer go through one set of speakers.) Simply making one PC with a whole bunch of sound cards, or some clever soldering option?
okay, got an idea right here.
it's simple, and should work..
and i found a link that helps explain it..
http://www.charm.net/~jriley/powsw1.html
this is what you're looking for, right?.. switches on the front, plugs at the back.. etc, etc.
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That seems pretty much the idea, thanks.
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Err, this thing only has one switch, meaning that if the desktop hangs, I'll shutdown my server, give my laptop a jolt to the batt., give all the monitors an electronic kick in the groin, remove the programming of my VCR/TV combo, killing the current download, and some other stuff I'd rather not see happening.
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Originally posted by kasperl
Err, this thing only has one switch, meaning that if the desktop hangs, I'll shutdown my server, give my laptop a jolt to the batt., give all the monitors an electronic kick in the groin, remove the programming of my VCR/TV combo, killing the current download, and some other stuff I'd rather not see happening.
i said some idea, didn't i?
ahwell, it's a conduit box, what you need would be simular, you plug it in multiple times per bank..
like Bank 1 - Computer
Bank 2 - Laptop..
and so on.. it's not that hard to adapt to your own type of plan.. works kinda like a powestip with switches, 'cept each bank has its own switch, and you can switch off one without turning the whole lot off.. see?
or something like that.. :)
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I'll figure something out, I'm reading up on some stuff right now.
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yeah i wanted to do something similar once, so i made this.
(http://www.swooh.com/lorenzo/hlphosted/P8120002.JPG)
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Do you have any kind of schematics for that?
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or, to save yourself a lot of time and money, you could go buy something like this (this particular auction is going buy it now for $1.00)
(http://i19.ebayimg.com/03/i/02/6b/b0/45_1.JPG)
(http://i21.ebayimg.com/03/i/02/6b/3b/d9_1.JPG)
it sits on your desk, under your monitor or whatever, and it's easy access, very neat and clean, built in surge protector, etc.
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I'll look into those, but if possible, I'd like something built by myself, as a learning experience, and so that the entire thing fits in with the rest of the place.
As for the auction, got link?
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Originally posted by kasperl
Do you have any kind of schematics for that?
yeah man it was really simple, i made it when i was 13 years old, and it doens't have any complicated circuitry inside.
if you want i can open it up, and take a few high-res pictures of what's inside of it. the hardest part to make it would be to find the parts.
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Do the switches do the high voltage directly, or is there a relay used?
The switch lights are bought, right?
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Originally posted by kasperl
As for the auction, got link?
yeah that's good you're doing it for a learning experience, that's definately the way to go. if you need any help finding parts for the project, let me know, i've got tons lying around.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45342&item=6706452871&rd=1
that's the link. "Tomball, Tx" is a 15 minute drive down the highway from my house.
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hmk
sry, i went out for lunch...
anyway, no i didn't use any relays, it's just right through the switch. the switches are meant to take heavy loads though, so they're good. however realize i don't run my computer off them now, i run my lights off them. back when i made this switchbox, computers didn't have 600W power supplies on them. this switchbox was made to power a 13.5" monitor, and a 200W power supply feeding a pentium 1 200 mhz with 32 mb ram :) i'd suggest using heavy duty relays if you want to do what i did today, because nowdays graphics cards take more power than the rest of the computer, and flatscreen monitors and all the rest of them, it's best to go with relays to be safe.
(http://www.swooh.com/lorenzo/hlphosted/P8120001.JPG)
the same picture in high resolutions (1.5 - 2.0 MB)
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/stealth/hostedpictures/P8120002.JPG
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/stealth/hostedpictures/P8120003.JPG
let me know what other information you need.
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The only thing I really need now is a few basic answers:
1) What's the symbol of a relays?
2) What voltage does an average visible LED run on?
3) How much does a relays cost that takes input from LED voltage and switches mains?
4) How much do basic LED's cost?
5) And how much does a switch cost for LED voltage?
Now, my dad has tons of stuff lying around too, and for most things, shipping from the US to Holland costs more then the thing itsself.
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[color=66ff00]Kas I would really advise against tinkering with mains in this way, what Stealth has built is a fairly straightforward device what you want is quite a bit more complex. One wrong wire and you could literally kill your equipment or worse; yourself.
I have many years of experience with electronics and it's not something I would approach without thoroughly planning it through and then prototyping it.
If you're totally set on it then I could probably draw something up to guide you.
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1) What's the symbol of a relays?
2) What voltage does an average visible LED run on?
3) How much does a relays cost that takes input from LED voltage and switches mains?
4) How much do basic LED's cost?
5) And how much does a switch cost for LED voltage?
1) http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/relay.htm
2) depends man, there's many different types. you can pretty much choose what one meets your needs
3) you have to draw out the circuit first, then try to find a relay/LED that corresponds with the voltage you need. draw it out though first.
4) umm you can get them at AutoZone, O'Reillys, etc. but they'll rip you off. buy the LEDs online. Ebay has tons. lots of online electronic supply stores too. always cheaper to buy in bulk.
5) check #3
my switches i bought with the lights in them. i'd probably suggest you buy the switch/light combo ;) cheaper, and a lot less work.
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Off course I won't hook it up all at once, and off course I'd prototype it. But doing it this way, I clean up at least 4 standard switchboxes lying all around the place, sometimes under my bed and stuff. And yeah, I know this isn't the safest thing to start with, current situation with mains lines carrying the wait of AC-DC adapters because I couldn't get a long enough cable isn't safe either.
Mind, if at any point this **** seems off, I can always just throw the entire thing away.
I'm thinking of wiring the entire room through the panel, including lighting. Would it be smarter to run low voltage switchlines, with a parelel mains line, through the entire place splitting later, or switch everything at the box, and run 8 parelel mains lines?
I made a quick little list of stuff to run through this, and ended up with this:
http://www.sectorgame.com/huiswerk/temp/Pagina.htm
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[color=66ff00]Better to draw some kind of connection diagram that shows what you want on each switch.
Personally I'd go as simple as possible after a bit of reading I notice that the plugs in your part of the world have realtively straightforward wiring compared to here. That should simplify things a bit. :nod:
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OK, that sucked.
According to my dad, I'm looking at €50 for a mains relay switch. That times 23 means €1150 euro's, about the price of a brand new, mid spec computer without a screen.
So, the whole soldering plan just got canceled. This leaves me basic switchboxes, some carpentry, and a whole **** lot of those plastic binder thingy's. (Off course, folded wires, with extra isolation+ventilation.)
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Better to draw some kind of connection diagram that shows what you want on each switch.
Personally I'd go as simple as possible after a bit of reading I notice that the plugs in your part of the world have realtively straightforward wiring compared to here. That should simplify things a bit. :nod:
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Yeah, I think I'll end up with basic switchboxes.
And no, no fuses in the plugs here, thank god.
BTW, what's the difference between a "solid" wire like the one they use in walls, to the twisted thing you find in a normal wire?
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Originally posted by kasperl
BTW, what's the difference between a "solid" wire like the one they use in walls, to the twisted thing you find in a normal wire?
stranded wire is easier to bend, and will withstand a lot more flexing than solid wire. solid wire is cheaper to produce. it's used in environments where the wire, once in place, will not move (such as houses). stranded on the other hand, is used in household appliances, extension cords, etc. where the wire is bound to be bent sharply and often.
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cold fusion
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I'm guessing from the Beer-keyboard post that I saw somewhere around here and the rash of completely nonsensical posts in the last hour or so that you are a) drunk, b) haven't slept in a long time, c) are someone using Janos' nick or d) some combination of the above. So for sanity you get the big
(http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/images/smilies/wtf.gif)
Kasperl, there's a reason this sort of thing comes off-the-shelf. While it wouldn't be to hard to rig up a simple switchbox, you're asking for trouble later on (nevermind that whatever you build will be just as failure-prone as whatever you have now). And from what I'm reading, you're talking about enforcing a 1-on at a time setup for your room, which seems to largely defeat the purpose of having multiple systems. Nevermind the fact that desktop computers are really designed to be hooked up to a power source continually.