Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Night Hammer on September 15, 2004, 09:03:06 pm
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Ok so how many ships are in an FS2 squadron? My guess is 12-16, b/c of Star Wars Rogue Squadron is 12 and then the fighter squad in the USAF my dad worked in had 16. What do yall think?
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Do you mean fighter wings? The two words are probably interchangeable because I think I have heard both in FS. I would guess a wing aboard say an orion destroyer would have somewhere around 16-18 pilots. Just a guess.
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Nono, like say the 109th Ravens, how many ships total
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a wing has 4 ships. I'd assume a squadron includes around 2 to 5 max wings, as well as command personal. This is assuming things like bombers called in on a fighter mission are from different squadrons and, ofcourse, "real" freespace pilots dont die as fast as the ones ingame.
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"Wing" refers to groups of fighters deployed as a unit, "squadron" refers to the command structure of several wings combind. I've always assumed that a squadron consists of about 4 wings of fighters (the bigger ones may have 5 wings or so), each wing initially containing 6 fighters. That's 4 active duty, 2 in repair, at any given time.
A squadron is defined by the personel and command staff, a wing by the ships currently assigned to it.
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so youre sayin that a sqadron has 24 fighters, 8 of which are on standby
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I can't remember this offhand, but IIRC it is specified in the Colossus cutscene (in the graphics, don't think it's in the commentary).
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Time to stir up contention with another one of Su-tehp's FREDzone posts :)
I went back and checked the Colossus cutscene. It was very informative and I managed to make some new correlations, so I’m correcting my previous post of fighter complements with this edited post. If you’ve already read this post, please reread it, as there have been some significant changes.
This is something I found on the Colossus cutscene: fighter-to-wing-to-squadron ratios!
4 fighters = 1 wing
3 wings = 1 squadron
12 fighters = 1 squadron
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Fighter complement for Terran and Vasudan destroyers and the Colossus:
An Orion-class destroyer can carry a grand total of 30 wings of fighters and bombers (assuming all the wings are made up of 4 fighters or 4 bombers each). Total fighter/bomber complement: 120
(I know I said before that the FS1 database said that an Orion can only carry 24 wings, but I saw another FS2 cutscene (the one that introduces you to the 53rd Hammerheads squadron) that clearly shows the Bastion (an Orion) having 10 squadrons ALL CLEARLY LABELED in its complement. 10 squadrons equals 120 fighters so the Orion has 30 wings. [10 squadrons x 12 fighters each = 120 fighters total. THUS 120 fighters divided by 4 fighters in one wing = 30 wings] I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again; if there’s ever confusion between an FS1 convention and an FS2 convention, I’ll pick the FS2 convention every time because I can find other info to correlate stuff with in FS2.)
A Hecate can carry a grand total of 39 wings of fighters and bombers (assuming all the wings are made up of 4 fighters or 4 bombers each). Total fighter/bomber complement: 156
A Typhon-class destroyer can carry a grand total of 30 wings of fighters and bombers (again assuming that each wing is made up of 4 fighters or 4 bombers each). Total fighter/bomber complement: 120
A Hatshepsut-class destroyer, like the Hecate, can carry a grand total of 39 wings of fighters and bombers (assuming all the wings are made up of 4 fighters or 4 bombers each). Total fighter/bomber complement: 156
The Colossus can carry a grand total of 60 wings of fighters and bombers (assuming all the wings are made up of 4 fighters or 4 bombers each). Total fighter/bomber complement: 240
Also
To find out how many squadrons a particular capital ship can carry, take its total fighter/bomber complement and divide by 12. This is how I managed to extrapolate specific numbers for destroyer complements; I multiplied by 12 and discarded complements that had remainders. This allows me to put in full squadrons, rather than have a certain number of squadrons and have an odd wing or two out. Thus:
Orion squadron complement: 120 / 12 = 10 squadrons
Hecate squadron complement: 156 / 12 = 13 squadrons
Typhon squadron complement: 120 / 12 = 10 squadrons
Hatshepsut squadron complement: 156 / 12 = 13 squadrons
Colossus squadron complement: 240 / 12 = 20 squadrons
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NB: IMO the difference between wings in an Orion in FS1 & FS2 can be simply put down to changes in technology - specifically the use of smaller ships (namely not having to use as many Ursas), also the standard miniturisation of technology over time. Or even just a change in the Orions role such that it uses less of the large bombers and more interceptors, etc.
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Yeh. I noticed that and I agee with you. The GTVA did have 32 years to improve their systems between the two games.
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yeah those damned ursas are like minicrusiers, take up alotta space in the hangar
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I believe that it is false to believe FS2 fighter squadrons consist only of 12 fighters. In two missions we are shown that squadrons are in fact more in the range of 5-7 wings (20-28 fighters). In the first nebula mission (the name escapes me), Lieutenant Samsa states that each squadron is sending out five wings of fighters to scout the nebula. During the mission, the Ravens indeed do have 5 wings deployed throughout the nebula.
Also, in "Love the Treason...", LT. CMD Snipes states that the entire NTF squadron you're in is being deployed to escort the Sunder, and in that mission we clearly see 7 wings of fighters at the beginning.
Also note that the GTD Aquitiane only has six fighter squadrons (Hammerheads, Ravens, Suicide Kings, Barracudas, Raptors, and Blue Lions), which when 156 fighters are divided among them, gives you 26 fighters per squadron, equalling 6.5 wings per squad (some squads may be larger than others).
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Its pretty explicitly stated in the Colossus cutscene.
RE1: no reason to assume that all the fighter wings are of full size, it could be that other patrols have smaller wing sizes for logistical reasons. (no evidence all the wings in that mission are the Ravens)
RE2: statement is not all-inclusive, i.e. can be other squadrons deployed as well. Also may be that NTF squadrons are organized differently
RE3: what about bomber squadrons on the Aquitane?
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First off, last time I checked the Orion can carry 20 wings.
While twelve ships is a nice number, I'm not so sure it's correct. I'm also not sure it's all-inclusive. Different squadron types probably have different numbers of ships. Bombers, which are bigger (and hence require more maintance) probably have fewer ships per squadron then fighter units. Advanced fighter units probably have fewer ships per squadron then normal ones. Combat Evaluation Units, like the Barracudas, probably have fewer fighters then a comparable line squadron.
The 64th Raptors are a medium/light bomber unit, not a fighter squadron per se.
Also, as I recall Hecate-class destroyers can carry a total of 150 (possibly give or take a few) combat spacecraft. Of the squadrons based on the Aquitane you serve in five (possibly six, but I'm not sure the 327th Barracudas are based onboard the Aquitane...seems kinda funny to put a unit like that onboard a frontline destroyer), and two or three more are mentioned in the briefing for "Their Finest Hour".
At 12 ships a squadron, this comes out to a low figure of 84 fighters/bombers or a high figure of 108. Even counting spare fighters and including a six-ship support ship squadron, this seems a little low.
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Well, we have a canon specification of squad sizes in the Colossus cutscene, and I'm going with that.
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cannon pretty much does overule all:nod:
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We have canon squad sizes for what was shown in the cutscene...did they show many types of fighters? Bombers? What kind of unit was it?
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Meh. I still say 12. :p
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rogue squad is my fav and they have 12, so im goin w/ tht
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And Rogue Squad is teh pwn.
Lt. Kettech > All
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was that the "ewok"? havent read the books in a while
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Yub Yub, commander!
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Originally posted by FireCrack
a wing has 4 ships. I'd assume a squadron includes around 2 to 5 max wings, as well as command personal. This is assuming things like bombers called in on a fighter mission are from different squadrons and, ofcourse, "real" freespace pilots dont die as fast as the ones ingame.
We hope not, otherwise the GTA/PVN/GTVA would run out of fighters very quickly.
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Usually they don't die, but Alpha1 is a bad luck bringer...
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Alpha 1 is the equivalent of Typhoid Mary: He doesn't have bad luck himself. Just everybody around him does.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Alpha 1 is the equivalent of Typhoid Mary: He doesn't have bad luck himself. Just everybody around him does.
Haha. Never thought of that. :)
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An average/general handbook squadron probably houses 12 fighters.
However specailization demands variation, so it's probably only the all around hyphotetical squadron that holds 12 ships.
Real squadrons can often deviate from this number, but for training and general aquitations based on readyness and arnament possibilities officiers generally use this number when calculating with fighters.