Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Getter Robo G on September 18, 2004, 12:03:27 pm
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I find a model and pof it so see if it will convert (it does). I then use 3d exploration to resize it correctly and convert it (it does)...
NOW the final part. I use TS to orient the correctly sized model and then stack overflow (too many polyhgons crap) error pops up...
WTH? It is the same size as the unoriented ones that convert successfully??? The only difference is orientation (so it acts correctly in game). What does this mean and is there a fix for it?
Is there a new version of PCS in the future? I know I asked this off and on for a year now but oh well...
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are you just using "object rotate" ? or saomethin' else ?
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1.) why would that make a difference?
2.) where is it? I see three blocks for size but you have to calculate each bock by the percentage you want and type them in seperately for each dimention... I searched the toolbars and don't know if it is a button command or how to choose "object scale"
3.) has anyone else found this problem before?
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Why do you resize it in 3dex? Why not resize it in TrueSpace? Use another ship, like the myrmadon, to compare sizes with.
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I respect you as a modler but that was NOT my question...
Besides read my post AGAIN I anwsered the question you just asked me...(unless you just missed it)...
A.) Please tell me if there is a command for overall object scale that you type in ONCE but more importantly How do you access it in TS!!! I looke dall over and could not find it on the toolbar or off other sections ..
and a new question
B.) Even if that works I still always use 3dexploration for easy texture replacement (remember people I am NOT a modler!)... Why does this error occur? Has anyone else ever had this problem before and knows WHY it happens?
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First off, you're already scaling in Truespace the way you should be. You have to actually use a calculator if you want to keep proportionality, and it does use multiple type-ins, so it's got it's drawbacks. But it's the closest you're going to find to a uniform scale in Truespace, and it's really not that bad once you're used to it. You usually only use it once on a given model, so it would take less time than opening a different program to do it. Secondly, there is no reason that 3dex should be messing Truespace up, but it's rare that a 3rd party tool works exactly correct on a proprietary format anyway. The reason object rotate may matter is that it's sweeping the transform through the desired rotation, rather than simply applying a transform to the model all at once, so it concievably could be running out of allocated memory on a moderately complex model (by Freespace standards). If you aren't already, use the object properties (again) to set the orientation; any half-decently designed model will be set facing down one of the three axis and so some combination of 0, 90, 180, -90 for rotation in x, y, and z should make it face the way you want it to. The other option is to not use 3dexploration at all, which may in truth be the way to go. Texture replacement can be done easily in truespace (the paint roller tool) or at the POF level, so there's no reason to go to a third program to make it work. No modeling experience required.
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Ummm. Don't use a calculator. Type in a mathmatical expression into the scale box :D
i.e if it says that the scale for x is 13.254 change this to 13.254*0.5 then press enter to half the size of the model. Repeat this for y and z. That way TS deals with rounding up or down rather than you.
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Oh that's right, that does work in TS. I haven't modeled in that program in so long that I'd forgotten it did that. Kara's right, it's so easy to use anyone can do it. You just have to type it in 3 times.
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Getter Robo G, I've experienced similiar problems in the past. What version of Pcs r u using? The Auto-facet version seems to be the most stable for me since I use high polys. Don't forget PCS has a size multiplier as well. So if you set the size to the exact amount in Truespace, and PCS has like a 100x multiplyer setting, I've crashed many times. I typically set the size to a tenth of actual in truespace and let pcs multiply it by 10.
In reguard to Truespace scaling, click the object scale icon, then select the PARENT object. (You do understand there is a required hierarchy for PCS to convert without crashing with multi-meshes). Once selected, move the cursor to one of the corners of the bounding box. The curser should change when you are on top of the corner precisely. Just Drag and keep an eye on the measurement box till its right.
With TS rotation, when you do the rotation, be sure to "normalize" the axis rotation and scale. The icon is at the bottom.
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
Goober, I've experienced similiar problems in the past. What version of Pcs r u using?
Huh? I don't mod, I code. :nervous:
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Oops... mistaken identity, sorry dude. Correction made. :p
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Originally posted by karajorma
Ummm. Don't use a calculator. Type in a mathmatical expression into the scale box :D
i.e if it says that the scale for x is 13.254 change this to 13.254*0.5 then press enter to half the size of the model. Repeat this for y and z. That way TS deals with rounding up or down rather than you.
I don't see why that's necessary. I just load up a similar craft and obj scale (all axis at once) my mod. to suit with the obj. scale icon. Unless I'm reading this thread wrong.:nervous:
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Originally posted by magatsu1
I don't see why that's necessary. I just load up a similar craft and obj scale (all axis at once) my mod. to suit with the obj. scale icon. Unless I'm reading this thread wrong.:nervous:
That's fine too but if you for instance have converted the ship in PCS and it was 1km long and you wanted a 600m corvette it's much easier to rescale by multiplying the numbers by 0.6 than by scaling by hand.
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the problem you're expiriencing is due to a corrupted model file from using non-supported modeling environments
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There may be some confusion here
I am using PCs 1.3.4 (I just found under OPTIONS the scaling factoer unless I set it at least to 20 I get problems)
I am also using TS 3.2 (the free version) that may be why I can't find these Icons you people keep talking about...
Great info Karajorma, the multiplier thingy works! However the size reduction still causes stack overflow to get these fighters and shuttles to right size... They only convert up to 40-50 meters long... Guess they go in the failure to convert folder till I can get someone to look at them (these are for star trek)...
L8tr...
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TSCoords x 20 = fs2 coords
stack overflow means you have polygons with duplicate centroids - that typically means oyu have to remodel
it's not something i can fix - it's a fundamental issue with BSP algorithms
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hey, I had an idea for fixing that, couldn't you put more than one polygon in a leaf, at least with how FS holds it's poly data I think it can be done. if not, do you think makeing an error mesage that tells were the bad geometry is roughly could be done?
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For the explanation Kazan... I was hoping it was someting else but at least now I know those ones need a modler to fix or just use as a reference.
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bob: i don't think fs2 is designed that way
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isn't that where you guys come in ? ;)
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um we don't touch that
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Originally posted by Getter Robo G
I respect you as a modler but that was NOT my question...
Besides read my post AGAIN I anwsered the question you just asked me...(unless you just missed it)...
I understand that that wasn't your question, but with every extra program you use in between, you significantly increase the chaces of your model not working properly.
I was curious, also, why you would go through all the extra trouble of resizing the model in 3D Exploration, when TrueSpace can resize the model just fine. Especially since 3dex may (or will) duplicate the faces on a model, to be double sided.
I didn't see anywhere in either post that explained why you were using 3dex, even after reading both of your posts AGAIN. So, I asked.
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Like a photocopy of a photocopy.......
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I'm almost certan that you can put more than one poly in a node, if you look at the V pofs a lot of them actualy do this, if you just pack a bunch of tmap chunks together they will be rendered together without further sorting.
you have POFdview right? that'll show what I'm talking about realy good (use a v model, look at it's bsp data then look at one made by pcs).
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I did not know TS could take the mathematical function like that instead I was looking for this "Phantom Control Icon" people seemed to be talking about that controls size...
It always seemed so much easier to change and rename textures while merging model lods wanted and getting rid of extra stuff NOT needed (lin particular Lightwave based models that had extra stuff for damage meshes) an other misc. when I have the model the way I wanted witht he right textures (minus all damage textures that are sometimes native you HAVE to edit out) I save as .cob adn thenopen with TS
In TS I orient and then try to convert , if I need to group I go back and add a light, viola done. It either converts for the final time or it doesn't (half the time it fatally crashes no message , or you get the BSP stack overflow 1000 poly message...
Oh the main reason I use DEX is cause most of the models I find are in Lwo, 3ds, or other formats that have to be converted to .cobs anyway...
One wierd problem I've noticed... I got the new version of modelview and now I CANNOT import any shield data to ships otherwise it causes Modelview to crash (standard microsoft error window, and yes I report it every time :D )...
I am debating if I can re-install the old version to edit shields again (as I hate PCS, sorry Kazan) and just stick in into another drive letter.. Can I do this and have both work? or will one override teh other and I have to suck it up... Like to all my pofs FIRST and then later on install the old one for shields only when I am finished.. the point is I switched to the upper limit one for SCP models and if I switch back I won't be able to view them again till I reinstall the new one.
As a non-modler that program is a God-send!
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Originally posted by Getter Robo G
(as I hate PCS, sorry Kazan)
because you don't RTFM and the caveats, use unsupported programs and then *****
you know what: **** YOU
Have fun never getting a model properly converted, ever getting able to edit all required game data
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That's not a very good attitude to have for customer service, Kazan. :rolleyes:
PCS has flaws. Yes, it's an excellent program, but it does have flaws.
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if he wants customer service he can go to Dell
if he wants to ***** about my program because of his ****ups he can go to hell
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Making a program more user-friendly never hurts. And PCS isn't the epitome of user-friendliness. FSO Multi is a little better, but it still tends to crash unless you do everything exactly right.
I'd still recommend that you make more of an effort to accommodate people using your code. You don't know how often your position on the SCP has been jeopardized because of your attitudes.
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Kazan is still one of my heroes! ;) So seriouly please acept my apology Kazaan I have never had a problem with anyone here except recently in TBP, again cause of a miscommunication (plus he probably forgot I wasn't a noob cause of the needed name change)
You might have not detected sarcasim mode for lack of smilely (my bad), but what I should have said was "PCS Intimidates me regardless". For some reason Modelview looks and feels more firendly and since I am MUCH more comfortable with that interface that is the main program I use for editing.
Telling a coder you hate one of his babies is kinda stupid,(especially when one doesn't mean it that way), but hey EVERYONE has a few DS moments in their lifetime eh? :nod:
Once more I was totally disgusted when a 14yo posted his first work after 2 weeks of modling (a rough SG-1 asgard ship) and after close to 3 years anything more complex than the GTC cube is still the bane of my existence... So maybe a little frustration was clouding my thinking when I was typing as this weekend I was VERY active in the forums.
If you guys notice I RARELY post in SCP (and often repeat myself to get an answer I can understand in basic layman terms). I've posted in Ferrum ONCE and realised I should never go there and let you guys do your thing in peace without ignorant peope like me distracting you (like my weapons table idea 20 people apparently alreadyt stated)...
As for getting models converted successfully, have you forgotten the dozens of in game model screnshots I've posted since I've been here? Plus many more I have not posted casue they are slated for mods and anything beyond personal use I like to seek permissions before posting pics of them. (my protocol initiated since "The SAAB incident")
*** Parody mode on ***
TM (C) "please note the SAAB Incident is in no way, shape, or form related or infringing upon "The Enterprise Incident"...
*** We now return you to this post ***
I figured you guys would realise 90% of my posts are tongue in cheek by now!
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goober5000: you are again not even paying attention to the issue - it's not a user-friendliness problem, it's a "feed it geometry data that fails specifications and it's going to puke"
getter robo g: ok... no problem
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Yeah relax Kazan, don't take comments so personally. :rolleyes:
I've never had any probs with PCS. I've learned to like it actually.
edit: oh yeah, don't forget Bob's tut. Couldn't live without it.
edit again: having said all that, I think people sometimes expect too much of PCS. It's limitations keep modders honest, IMHO.
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Kaz, does PCS actually have documentation detailing the model/geometry specifications & limits?
The readme I have only has a version change list, but I've not used PCS for a long time so I could have missed something here.
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aldo: no polygons can have duplicate centroids - that's the only real precondition - that and the hierarchy is correct
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What's a centroid?
(envisions a Centaur-andriod type of assassin from a SW book possibly)...
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it's a mathematicaly term for the geometric center of an object