Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: karajorma on September 24, 2004, 07:15:27 am

Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: karajorma on September 24, 2004, 07:15:27 am: Thanks to MS looks like they're now a reality. :rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3684552.stm

Thankfully it doesn't look like outlook is vulnerable to this particular exploit or we'd probably face one of the worst virus epidemics ever seen. After all though we've been telling people not to open unsolicited e-mails for years people have always said that some formats like jpg, gif etc were always perfectly safe.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 24, 2004, 08:08:24 am: I think MS actually invents new exploits to convince people to keep on DL-ing new versions of IE.......

because, apparently, the security fixes for IE are only available if you are running XP SP2 - i.e. it's payup time if you want security.

Worlds biggest beta test, indeed.......
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Kamikaze on September 24, 2004, 08:32:46 am: From what I've heard the image bug is universal to software that uses the MS' JPEG parser, which includes Office, IE, Outlook and so on.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Clave on September 24, 2004, 09:23:57 am: Anyone using IE deserves what's coming to them... :drevil:
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Mongoose on September 24, 2004, 09:37:06 am: Hey, I use IE! :p Never had a problem with it, and I'll be damned if I'm going to bother downloading some browser that does the exact same thing as the one integrated into Windows. Also, I'm far from a Microsoft fanboy, but these exploits aren't Microsoft's fault; they're the fault of the @$$holes who think, "Hey! Let's write a virus! It'll be teh funnay!!1!" Those bastards deserve to be locked up for a very long time...:devil:
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Turnsky on September 24, 2004, 09:46:04 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
Hey, I use IE! :p Never had a problem with it, and I'll be damned if I'm going to bother downloading some browser that does the exact same thing as the one integrated into Windows. Also, I'm far from a Microsoft fanboy, but these exploits aren't Microsoft's fault; they're the fault of the @$$holes who think, "Hey! Let's write a virus! It'll be teh funnay!!1!" Those bastards deserve to be locked up for a very long time...:devil:

i'll name one thing that most other browsers do, that IE can't... infact, i'll name two..
Tabbed browsing..
intergrated popup blocker.
:p
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Zarax on September 24, 2004, 09:48:36 am: I'm sorry, but with XP2 there is integrated popup blocking...
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Mongoose on September 24, 2004, 10:09:01 am: And I don't see the point of everyone's infatuation with tabbed browsing, either. Having a few IE windows open at the same time accomplishes the same purpose.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 24, 2004, 10:24:26 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
Hey, I use IE! :p Never had a problem with it, and I'll be damned if I'm going to bother downloading some browser that does the exact same thing as the one integrated into Windows. Also, I'm far from a Microsoft fanboy, but these exploits aren't Microsoft's fault; they're the fault of the @$$holes who think, "Hey! Let's write a virus! It'll be teh funnay!!1!" Those bastards deserve to be locked up for a very long time...:devil:

I'm sure knowing that "it's not MS' fault" will be a source of great comfort next time someone exploits an IE vulnerabiity to **** up your computer.

Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
And I don't see the point of everyone's infatuation with tabbed browsing, either. Having a few IE windows open at the same time accomplishes the same purpose.

With more mess.

I can't say why tabbed is so much better, but using Ie just feels so...wrong not.

Besides which, firefox is just far, far, far, far more secure.

And far more reliable and faster in my experience.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Mongoose on September 24, 2004, 10:28:37 am: If you keep Windows updated and have good antivirus/firewall/antispyware programs, it's perfectly safe to use IE. I've been using it for 3 years or so without a single problem. It just requires some level of common sense, which unfortunately most computer users seem to lack.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: delta_7890 on September 24, 2004, 10:38:08 am: Firefox was perfect, except Flash didn't work for some reason. And I missed my Google Toolbar.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 24, 2004, 10:44:31 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
If you keep Windows updated and have good antivirus/firewall/antispyware programs, it's perfectly safe to use IE. I've been using it for 3 years or so without a single problem. It just requires some level of common sense, which unfortunately most computer users seem to lack.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/13/german_ie_jitters/
"Michael Dickopf, spokesman for the German Federal Office for Information Security (BSI), has told the Berliner Zeitung that internet users should switch from Internet Explorer to Mozilla or Opera. Dickopf says Internet Explorer is hazard-prone, attracting too many viruses and worms. BSI already uses a combination of alternative browsers, Dickopf told the paper."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/28/cert_ditch_explorer/
"US CERT (the US Computer Emergency Readiness Team), is advising people to ditch Internet Explorer and use a different browser after the latest security vulnerability in the software was exposed."

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/249
"IE is a buggy, insecure, dangerous piece of software, and the source of many of the headaches that security pros have to endure (I'm not even going to go into its poor support for Web standards; let that be a rant for another day). Yes, I know Microsoft patches holes as they are found. Great. But far too many are found. And yes, I know that Microsoft has promised that it has changed its ways, and that it will now focus on "Trustworthy Computing." But I've heard too many of Microsoft's promises and seen the results too many times."

(Date in URL/article) note that these would relate to the latest patched software t the time.

Also, saying 'so long as you have firewalls, anti-virus, etc' is about as effective a defense for IEs' security-stroke-safety as it is to say a door made of tissue will protect your house, when your house is encased in a giant concrete box with no openings.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Clave on September 24, 2004, 10:49:02 am: I try and use as little MS stuff as possible, just on principle...

But I DO use Office vX, which is pretty good actually, and I have an X-Box, so it's hard to escape completely...
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: karajorma on September 24, 2004, 11:19:11 am: Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
From what I've heard the image bug is universal to software that uses the MS' JPEG parser, which includes Office, IE, Outlook and so on.

I worry about this if Outlook is exploited by this. It really doesn't matter if MS release a patch cause for every person patching their PC on a weekly basis there are probably hundreds who don't bother.

This exploit was revealed a week ago. There are already proof of concept exploits out there. Every virus writer in the world is probably looking ito this because of the sheer scale of the problem this could cause.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 24, 2004, 11:21:59 am: Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

I worry about this if Outlook is exploited by this. It really doesn't matter if MS release a patch cause for every person patching their PC on a weekly basis there are probably hundreds who don't bother.

This exploit was revealed a week ago. There are already proof of concept exploits out there. Every virus writer in the world is probably looking ito this because of the sheer scale of the problem this could cause.

Especially the ones who 'arrange' zombie machines for Spammers...

Imagine this, every image-containing spam email containing a virus that turns your machine into a zombie PC, sending out more viral-image emails.........:shaking:

.i'm glad I switched to Thunderbird, anyways - does Outlook leverage any of said JPG code from IE to view HTML emails?
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: kasperl on September 24, 2004, 11:52:07 am: Erm, this is about all JPEG code from MS. Your image viewer, your office, your outlook, your outlook express, your desktop, MSN, everything.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: karajorma on September 24, 2004, 12:24:09 pm: It gets worse. The virus toolkit is already out there now.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/24/jpeg_exploit_toolkit/
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2004, 12:35:34 pm: [color=66ff00]Seen this a month ago on slashdot, basically you create a jpeg with an invalid filesize (over 1 gig IIRC) and it causes the buffer overflow.

It's reckoned that the code leak allowed somebody to figure it out.

That is of course unless it's a new one, IE is kinda like a cadbury's flake; it's got the crumbliest, flakiest security in the world. :D
[/color]
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 24, 2004, 12:37:02 pm: (http://www.spreadfirefox.com/community/images/affiliates/Buttons/80x15/firefox_80x15.png)

:rolleyes:

I want one of those, now.................
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2004, 12:42:53 pm: [color=66ff00]Sarnie's idea, I think it is a good one and honestly wasn't prompted by this thread (in my case).
[/color]
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 24, 2004, 01:19:50 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Sarnie's idea, I think it is a good one and honestly wasn't prompted by this thread (in my case).
[/color]

Yeah, ah know. (http://www.davidwalliams.com/media/clipandyyeahiknow.wav)

I want one.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Sandwich on September 24, 2004, 03:22:47 pm: Boo. :D
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 24, 2004, 04:56:14 pm: Ya cheeky bugger.................
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Taristin on September 24, 2004, 05:11:57 pm: Yeah. Add me to that list too.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Flipside on September 24, 2004, 05:23:17 pm: Meh, enough is enough, I'm getting mightily cheesed with downloading one patch to fix a security issue only to be told two weeks later I need another patch to fix another issue.

<---- Going Firefox.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Clave on September 24, 2004, 05:32:55 pm: It's sweet. It is cleaner than IE, not quite as cool as Safari, a bit more colourful than Mozilla, and easier than Camino. (And yes I have all of them running right now) But the main thing is that it is NOT IE....

*quickly shuts IE down before something goes wrong*
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Kosh on September 24, 2004, 07:31:29 pm: Quote
Thankfully it doesn't look like outlook is vulnerable to this particular exploit

I guess there really is a first time for everything.....

EDIT: Is there a way to turn off the tabs in Firefox?
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 24, 2004, 07:34:15 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Kosh

I guess there really is a first time for everything.....

EDIT: Is there a way to turn off the tabs in Firefox?

Just don't use them.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Bobboau on September 24, 2004, 08:35:49 pm: you know it might be a fun idea to put that little logo under everyone's name who logged in last with a specific browser, you could have diferentendosements for the diferent browsers people use, exept IE were you could have an asortment of diferent little mocking things like "I'm a lasy basturd" or something, I'd fall in this group.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Kamikaze on September 24, 2004, 10:26:20 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
some browser that does the exact same thing as the one integrated into Windows.

IE doesn't do....

position: fixed
min-height property
before/after pseudo-selectors
content property
correct box-model
proper behavior for text-align or margin: auto
tabs
image permissions
advanced configuration options (about:config)

There are a lot more things that I won't list.

Even if you think they do "the exact same thing", at least have sympathy for us web designers and use a better browser so we can push our side in the web standards battle.

Quote

Also, I'm far from a Microsoft fanboy, but these exploits aren't Microsoft's fault; they're the fault of the @$$holes who think, "Hey! Let's write a virus! It'll be teh funnay!!1!" Those bastards deserve to be locked up for a very long time...:devil:

That's a silly excuse for sloppy programming. Are you going to say that there wasn't anything silly with someone who leaves all their doors wide open 24/7 then gets everything stolen?
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Kosh on September 24, 2004, 11:32:38 pm: Actually, I have heard that IE 7 is supposed to basicly be a copy of Firefox, tabs and everything.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: karajorma on September 25, 2004, 02:19:25 am: Yeah but since this is MS and they'll just have built it on top of IE6 it will just be a nightmare of exploits which Firefox isn't.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Sandwich on September 25, 2004, 04:08:22 am: Quote
Originally posted by Kosh
Actually, I have heard that IE 7 is supposed to basicly be a copy of Firefox, tabs and everything.

IE7? You mean whatever they'll call the version coming out with Windows Longhorn? In 2006?? :rolleyes: How nice - MS plays catchup 2 years afterwards. Woohoo.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: karajorma on September 25, 2004, 07:24:25 am: And then claims they invented it :D
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Flipside on September 25, 2004, 07:52:16 am: It'll be Windows Longwait by the time it comes out ;)
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 25, 2004, 08:00:32 am: If they're claiming it's super-secure, it'll be Windows Longshot
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: kasperl on September 25, 2004, 09:21:48 am: Give me one of those "Get Mo" images too.....

Seriously, this thing is evil, this might give one hell of a zombie storm the next few days. If someone wrights a JPEG to make a PC a bagle or netsky spewer, we're all borked.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Turnsky on September 25, 2004, 10:41:34 am: (http://www.spreadfirefox.com/community/images/affiliates/Buttons/110x32/trust.gif)
damn you admins and your abilities to have avatars! :p
seriously tho, that's a good idea..
and spread firefox, eh?... hrm...

spread foxfire?
(http://users.bigpond.net.au/Turnsky/images/ffc150ad.gif)

:nervous:
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Sandwich on September 25, 2004, 02:11:15 pm: Turnsky, is that a request for a FF button? ;)
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 25, 2004, 02:20:25 pm: << :yes: :yes:
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Corsair on September 25, 2004, 03:59:49 pm: <-- has firefox
<-- likes it much more than IE
<-- wants firefox button

;)
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Clave on September 25, 2004, 05:05:03 pm: <-- Pretty much anything will do to fill this space....
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Knight Templar on September 25, 2004, 05:15:15 pm: I want a firefox button! I want to be cool! Put me on the list!!
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Taristin on September 25, 2004, 06:52:26 pm: Piss off. :lol:

I'll also gladly pimp foxfire too, for Turnsky, if you're doing that. :p
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Sandwich on September 25, 2004, 07:05:38 pm: Buttons! Buttons for everyone! :p
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Taristin on September 25, 2004, 07:13:40 pm: Bah. now that it's gone mainstream I don't like mine anymore... :p
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 25, 2004, 07:29:54 pm: Wah-hey-hey! It's a button blowout!
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Corhellion on September 25, 2004, 07:37:13 pm: < Has Firefox...has had it for a while...loves it 15000000x better than IE! So...add me to da list
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Corhellion on September 25, 2004, 07:38:20 pm: (Edit: nvm...wasn't showing up for some stupud reason...)
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Shrike on September 25, 2004, 07:40:19 pm: Since when did we become a firefox advertising agency? :wtf:
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Corhellion on September 25, 2004, 07:41:31 pm: since this thread came into existance?

...I dunno...I just started using it cause everyone else does...and...it's farking sweet! :-D
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 25, 2004, 07:43:39 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Since when did we become a firefox advertising agency? :wtf:

Since we decided to?
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Turnsky on September 25, 2004, 08:01:08 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Turnsky, is that a request for a FF button? ;)

yeah, sure, but which FF do you mean, eh? :p
just kidding, i know you mean firefox :nod:

i.....think... :nervous:
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: RadioactiveYeti on September 26, 2004, 12:20:12 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
And I don't see the point of everyone's infatuation with tabbed browsing, either. Having a few IE windows open at the same time accomplishes the same purpose.

Yeah, but what if you have 10-20 windows open at once? :p Maybe its just me...

also

1. I'm not new, its just that my YodaSean account was getting old and stinky and I don't like it anymore :)

2. Coulda I hve a firefox button too? :yes:
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Mongoose on September 26, 2004, 01:00:31 am: If you have 10-20 windows open at the same time, you need serious help :p.

Oh, and I'd like a "Get IE6" avatar :p.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Sandwich on September 26, 2004, 01:40:47 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
If you have 10-20 windows open at the same time, you need serious help :p.

Oh, and I'd like a "Get IE6" avatar :p.

I'll give you a "Get Lost" avatar, that's what I'll give you. :p

And the FF buttons are on hold for the time being; we (the staff) are debating the best way to go about it. Sit tight. No, not on Kevlar. :rolleyes:
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Cyker on September 26, 2004, 02:11:49 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
If you have 10-20 windows open at the same time, you need serious help :p.

Oh, and I'd like a "Get IE6" avatar :p.

Heey, I browse with at least 20 windows open at all times!! :D

This is why I use Opera 'tho, Firefox and IE just can't handle that kinda load because they're such resource hogs... (They crash like smeg on Win98! ;))
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: karajorma on September 26, 2004, 02:44:33 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
If you have 10-20 windows open at the same time, you need serious help :p.

Actually it's quite a useful way to browse forums like this one. That way you're opening pages in another window (or tab) while you're reading. Much better than a load-read cycle.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Shrike on September 26, 2004, 02:50:45 am: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
And the FF buttons are on hold for the time being; we (the staff) are debating the best way to go about it. Sit tight. No, not on Kevlar. :rolleyes:
Yes. Me being the bastard I am, I don't think people should be getting avatars for supporting a browser. Since it's oh so relevant to HLP, you know. :p
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Turnsky on September 26, 2004, 04:01:02 am: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Yes. Me being the bastard I am, I don't think people should be getting avatars for supporting a browser. Since it's oh so relevant to HLP, you know. :p

:lol:

i wasn't expecting anything, heck, the only thing that ties foxfire into HLP is the fact that i first started to post the comics here... :)

as for Firefox.. *is viewing HLP in firefox right now*;)
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: karajorma on September 26, 2004, 04:06:17 am: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Yes. Me being the bastard I am, I don't think people should be getting avatars for supporting a browser. Since it's oh so relevant to HLP, you know. :p

YOu could just make it temporary of couse. There's no reason it has to be permanent.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Gloriano on September 26, 2004, 04:11:29 am: After I started use Firefox all my proplems been solved

so Firefox's rock!!!
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: aldo_14 on September 26, 2004, 07:22:36 am: Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

Actually it's quite a useful way to browse forums like this one. That way you're opening pages in another window (or tab) while you're reading. Much better than a load-read cycle.

Which exactly what I'm doing justnow, oddly enough.

Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Yes. Me being the bastard I am, I don't think people should be getting avatars for supporting a browser. Since it's oh so relevant to HLP, you know. :p

It helps HLP by allowing HLP members to be online longer, as there is a reduced risk of IE-caused-system-FUBARs.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: RadioactiveYeti on September 26, 2004, 02:11:09 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
If you have 10-20 windows open at the same time, you need serious help :p.

As someone else said, its quite useful for browsing forums like HLP. It becomes even more useful when you have an extension that can open up to 99 new tab links at once :D
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Mongoose on September 26, 2004, 10:27:53 pm: Most forums load fast enough to not have this be a problem. HLP, on the other hand, seems infected with a chronic case of slowness. I usually just right-click and "Open in New Window;" it accomplishes the same objective without the need for a fancy new feature :p.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: ChronoReverse on September 26, 2004, 11:15:17 pm: Meanwhile, I just middle mouse click everything I'm looking at and they all load up in tabs (not cluttering my task bar). Then I go through the tabs as they load.

Hardly "fancy" since every modern browser besides IE has this feature.
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: Bobboau on September 26, 2004, 11:47:26 pm: maybe not fancy, but certanly unnesisary
Title: Remember when JPEG viruses were a joke?
Post by: karajorma on September 27, 2004, 06:44:33 pm: If Several people have already stated that they use it heavily then it's not unnecessary by a long shot. Besides there is something about opening in new windows in IE that makes it completely pointless compared with Mozilla.

IE
Open in new window. Iconise new window down.
Open in new window. Iconise new window down.
Open in new window. Iconise new window down. ....

Mozilla
Open in new tab
Open in new tab
Open in new tab

I reckon I've already saved an hour or two of my life just not iconising windows :D