Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: Jeremy971 on October 03, 2004, 01:51:28 am
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I am working on a Freespace II level. It's just one single player level.
I'm having some difficulty with some of it though. I'll try to explain the best I can.
objective: Destroy "NTF Phoenix" ship.
In the directive box, it says at start it already was accomplished, but the "NTF Phoenix" still remains.
I can't seem to find where you have the wingmen box on the right side as well.
So my problems/questions are, How do you get the game to say what is accomplished when you actually perform that?
How do you have a ship enter right when one dies?
I understand some on timing, but not timing when one dies or leaves the area.
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To get that directive to work you'd need a SEXP that simply says 'when NTF Phoenix is destroyed, do nothing' (unless you want something to happen directly after that, like sending a message or something) and put the directive on that SEXP.
As for wingmen, as far as I know it just automatically puts Alpha, Beta, Delta, Epsilon and Gamma wings on there but I don't think there's any other way to put other wings on there.
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thanks. Ill give that a try. I do have alpha 2, 3, and 4. When I click on "c" then "ships" i see them on there, and I can tell them to attack a target and even depart. I just dont see the box on the top right.
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Are they set as a wing? If you've just named the ships Alpha 2/3/4 then it won't appear.
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I cant seem to set it as a wing. everything is gray and uncheckable when I try it.
yeah, lol, thats what i did, just name them as alpha.
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Select all the ships you want in that wing and hit Control-W or hit the button at the top called Form Wing, should come up with a box where you can type in the name of the wing. They'll be automatically named then.
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Alpha 1 says: EDIT ALPHA 1 - Ship name, Alpha 1. wing: none
Alpha 1 says: EDIT WING - Wing name Alpha
The other three say: wing - none
and edit wing: all grayed, nothing checkable
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Yes, do what I said before and include Alpha 1. It should ask you to reform Alpha wing then, since Alpha 1 is already in Alpha wing but the others you selected aren't.
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How do you have a ship enter right when one dies?
I understand some on timing, but not timing when one dies or leaves the area.
Click on the ship you want to enter when another dies, and go to the ship editor. At the bottom there are two boxes, for arriving and departing.
In the arrival box, edit the sexp from "true" to a when, is-destroyed-delay and select the ship you want as the destroyed conditions and any delay you may want. Now that ship will only enter when the ship referenced in the sexp goes boom.
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This is starting to upset me. I dont see how hard it can be just to set the wingmen. I tried Ctrl+W, all it says is: "the name 'alpha' is already being used by another wing."
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You need to select all the ships you want to be in Alpha wing, including Alpha 1. It may also complain if you have the other ships named Alpha 2/3/4, try changing them to something else and try again if it still doesn't work.
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I just dont believe this. same thing! I changed the names just to V2, V3, and V4, so it wasnt anything like alpha, beta, gamma, etc, same message. I did highlight and mark them all at one time, and it still says it cant do it
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I decided to put Beta and that worked. so thats half sucess. now i just need to get alpha back. i think i can do that, hopefully...
ah yes. now it works! finally. thanks a ton for helping me out. I had to reset the name. I highlighted all 4 and put Beta. then I highlighted them and palced Alpha.
i guess it needed a reset
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Originally posted by Ransom Arceihn
You need to select all the ships you want to be in Alpha wing, including Alpha 1. It may also complain if you have the other ships named Alpha 2/3/4, try changing them to something else and try again if it still doesn't work.
Alpha wing works slightly differently from most wings in that you can't reform it. What you have to do is disband the existing Alpha wing (The button next to form wing). Then select all the ships you want and click the form wing button.
Changing the wing name as Jeremy did also works :)
Had this been an enemy wing the original advice would have worked :)
While I'm here how come no one has pimped the FRED Academy (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,26744.0.html) to this guy. Sounds exactly like what he needs :D
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Select Alpha 1, press Ctrl+D (disband wing) and then reform all the fighters you want into Alpha wing (must include player ship and max of 4)
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Have you done the walkthrough? If not, do it. It'll help you out immensely.
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I've been going through the walkthrough and it has helped me in areas, but in others I sort of feel too lost to get anywhere.
I understand that not many probably want to help this complete "level builder nob", but I'd greatly appreciate it if anyone can help me through this.
A little (boring?) background. I had originally released an old Descent I level through planetdescent in '02 called Vanguard.
About a month or so ago, I wanted to released "Vanguard Resurrection" for Descent I, but felt that the game itself is so old, with boring graphics and textures. It then hit me, why not Freespace? That's a LOT closer to what I want than Descent I. It has a little story you can tell others, the mission objectives, what's up and a battle field with other people.
I'll do my best to make it a "non so noob" level. If I get it all figured out, this may be pretty massive, hard to say yet.
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Originally posted by Jeremy971
I understand that not many probably want to help this complete "level builder nob"
Follow the FRED Academy link I posted earlier. Not only are there a bunch of people happy to help you with problems but we'll actually look at your missions and tell you how to make them better.
The trade off is that we don't do it for just any mission. The people in the academy are working on one of a specific set of campaigns. The idea being that rather than going off and working on their own the people in the Academy work together and finish campaigns quickly.
I'm quite happy to help with questions posed on the forum but I'm only going to go through missions for new people looking for mistakes if their part of the Academy. Although I wish I did, I don't have the time to check every new mission that gets posted :)
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I suppose I understand. This is just one level.
I've been looking at the help for a while, now attempting to send a message when the ships are dead.
I'll get it soon, I'm sure.
Thanks
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I'm getting happy again. After some work, I not only got a message across the screen once the ships went down, but the ship saying it was highlighted in the gray box with the right name.
this is great. I want to thank you a lot for helping me. There is still a lot to do, but I imagine that once I get use to that one command, it won't be too hard to send more messages.
thanks alot!
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Update: Again, I want to thank all for helping me out. I appreciate it.
I do have a question however, and I can't seem to find how to solve this.
This is how it is so far:
An enemy wing is attacking the Silencer. Once you kill them, the Silence says a message (all Good so far).
Another wing comes in, wingmen go to kill them; repeat again, a third wave. Once dead, Silencer says another message, on time, so far all is perfect.
Here is the problem:
After some seconds, two SC Lilith's enter. Another message pops up, perfect, except the "directives" aren't showing the name and to destroy it.
I tried various attempts, and they failed. It popped up at the beginning when they weren't even in the game yet. They were up, but showed completed before even attacking them.
Once I accidently had it appear the same as the third wing.
What I mean by that, is it said:
Destroy SC Lilith [3]
Destroy Dragon [3]
When I killed a dragon, it showed [2] on both the SC lilith and dragon, even though the lilith wasn't even in combat at this moment.
Can someone help please?
Also, how do you monitor capitol ships?
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To monitor capital ships, use the add-escort sexp, or go into 'misc' on the ship editor, and enable escort-ship (priority should be one or two).
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Originally posted by Jeremy971
After some seconds, two SC Lilith's enter. Another message pops up, perfect, except the "directives" aren't showing the name and to destroy it.
I tried various attempts, and they failed. It popped up at the beginning when they weren't even in the game yet. They were up, but showed completed before even attacking them.
Once I accidently had it appear the same as the third wing.
What I mean by that, is it said:
Destroy SC Lilith [3]
Destroy Dragon [3]
When I killed a dragon, it showed [2] on both the SC lilith and dragon, even though the lilith wasn't even in combat at this moment.
Can someone help please?
Hmmm. Sounds like the two events are using the same code. The code for each Lilith should look like this.
Event 1
When
-has-arrived-delay
--0
--Lilith 1
-Send message
--It's Lilith 1
Event 2 (Chained to to event 1).
When
-is-destroyed-delay
--0
--Lilith 1
-do-nothing (Or send a message or whatever).
Your directive text goes in event 2.
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just tried it, thanks. out of curiosity, do you know how many you can monitor? is it 3 or 4 max? and i take it, if you hit 1 for priority, that will be displayed on top, and if it is 3 max, and one dies, the one that is on 4, will then show up, because its not as much of a priorty?
Just got the other message about the SC lilith. thanks. I'll try that now.
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(http://premium.uploadit.org/magatsu1/directiveblurb.JPG)
make sperate directive text for each wing (Fighters or whatever).
The game logic will only display an objective when it becomes possible (when then target arrives for example)
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Originally posted by Jeremy971
just tried it, thanks. out of curiosity, do you know how many you can monitor? is it 3 or 4 max? and i take it, if you hit 1 for priority, that will be displayed on top, and if it is 3 max, and one dies, the one that is on 4, will then show up, because its not as much of a priorty?
You can have 3 as standard (although if you're using FS2_Open it is possible to make HUD changes and have upto 6).
Priority is a number from 1 to 100 (or 1 to 89 I forget which.) The higher the number the more of a priority it is. The highest 3 ships present are shown until they either leave or are destroyed at which point the next highest one shows up.
Originally posted by magatsu1
make sperate directive text for each wing (Fighters or whatever).
The game logic will only display an objective when it becomes possible (when then target arrives for example)
I know it does that for fighters but I've always chained things for capships since I always have a nice arrival event for them anyway. :D
I'll have to give it a try and see if it works without chaining one of these days :D
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half working. it says "destroy lilith" when they come, but doesn't show the [2]. I think I know how to get that to go.
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You should have a seperate directive for each Lilith really (and refer to each of them by name rather than as Lilith1 and Lilith2). If for some reason you wanted both on the same directive you should make event2 look like this.
When
-is-destroyed-delay
--0
--Lilith 1
--Lilith 2
-do-nothing (Or send a message or whatever).
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thanks. that worked! Isn't this easier than last night? Man, that was rough. But the more you learn or get help on, the easier it becomes.
When I get this done, I'd like to put you in the text file for helping me out.
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Here's the next step, and in a way, one of the final ones.
Two SC liliths enter the battle field, command sends a message.
Here's the new stuff. After that, more enemy wings enter, a few seconds later command says he'll send in delta/beta, little while longer, they enter, more capital ships enter as well.
Oh, before I get too far. I don't know if this is important to do soon or what. I need to make sure the objectives work.
It says primary objective: defend silencer. but when you start the game, it says it was just completed.
How do we fix that?
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Doesn't Karajorma or someone have a full FREDing tutorial out there?
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Btw, just to clarify, in FS2 it's not called a 'level' but rather a mission. It's not a big deal, but there are some people around here who hate such terminology with a passion so I thought I'd give you a heads up before one of them jumps on you and scares you away forever :)
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I heard something about that. A level is just some map, and a mission is actually having some goals, and performing tasks, that sort of stuff.
Funny how they call true Descent and other games "levels" and not always "missions".
Anyway, I can't believe how far I am getting so far. It's starting to get a little tense in the battle field, but not quite.
I have some problems that still remain:
'Primary Objective: Defend Silencer Capital Ship'
When you start the game it says both primary and secondary objective is complete. Not much of a game if you can just leave the battle area and win.
I'm understanding a lot, thanks to those on here helping me out. I just have some more things that I am not sure about.
Wait until I try the next section of the level, escape pods going to a jump node.
This is my FIRST "mission" that I am doing, but I'm not just skimming through it. I want it to look pretty well professional and laid out well.
P.S. Thanks for the advance warning on the "level/mission" bit, but don't worry, no one scares me on here.
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Originally posted by Jeremy971
Here's the next step, and in a way, one of the final ones.
Two SC liliths enter the battle field, command sends a message.
Here's the new stuff. After that, more enemy wings enter, a few seconds later command says he'll send in delta/beta, little while longer, they enter, more capital ships enter as well.
Oh, before I get too far. I don't know if this is important to do soon or what. I need to make sure the objectives work.
It says primary objective: defend silencer. but when you start the game, it says it was just completed.
How do we fix that?
You can make new ships appear by using the arrival cues in the ship editor. Just set your ships to appear when is-event-true-delay. If you want to tie the ships appearing after a message, just add a large delay to the arrival cue to the event that sent the message.
For objectives, it sounds like you need a second condition. I'm guessing you are using something like
--not
---is-destroyed-delay
or
--is-event-false-delay
Because as soon as you start the mission, Silencer is alive and that's good enough for FS2 to say, "It's completed!" So tie in another event, like an event that's true when all the enemies are gone, AND the ship isn't destroyed.
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What setting shall I place? In case you need to know: the Silencer is in the game at the beginning. technically, it's in there before you get out there, as it is being mentioned in briefing that its fighting off waves of enemies.
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Well, technically arrived at 0 seconds anyway. :D The player is just fooled by changes in hull and whatnot. Anyway for your objective I'd do something like this...
Defend Silencer
--and
----not
------is-destroyed-delay
--------Silencer
--------0
----is-destroyed-delay
------[Enemy Wing 1]
------[Enemy Wing 2]
------[etc]
------0
This is all assuming I'm understand this correctly, I have a habit of misreading stuff. :nervous:
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I think I see it now. At first I couldn't see why I'd have to name all enemy targets, but once you kill them, that would mean it's safe.
I'll give that a try.
I tested o njust the mara enemies. once they died, it was programmed to be completed, which it did say. so that works great! thanks.
how about an objective: destroy NTC Phoenix
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Both seem to work now, defending the silencer and destroying the phoenix.
There isn't too much left that I need help with. I haven't attacked the "escape pod to node part".
I just hope it won't get too difficult.
Thanks a TON!
if you want to see this mission when it's done, I hope you enjoy it.
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Originally posted by Blitzerland
Doesn't Karajorma or someone have a full FREDing tutorial out there?
There is a walkthrough that comes with FRED and another one Darkage made which you can find at.
http://www.swooh.com/premium/Darkage/site/Tutorial.htm
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Jeremy, you're Vanguard, I assume? Top Gun here :). Looks like these guys are giving you much more help than my lack of skills could :p.
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hey there, whats up? Yep, I'm trying to get help left and right, and thanks to these people and you, I am getting this mission done faster. Did you read an earlier post mongoose?
I had started about the D1 vanguard level that I had attempted.
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Update: I am VERY near to completing the mission itself.
I have a couple more questions, and that should end this, and I will be able to release the mission.
First one: Debriefing.
How do you do this? How can you have the message saying one thing if you suceeded, or a message saying you failed?
I am not getting anything. All it says is "no debriefing available", or along those lines.
Second question:
The (friendly) capital ship "Vanguard" enters stating their going to destroy "Phoenix" for us. However, there are no beam turrents at all! How do you put these in?
I believe that is it, if anything else, it's one or MAYBE two more questions.
Thanks again.
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Originally posted by karajorma
I know it does that for fighters but I've always chained things for capships since I always have a nice arrival event for them anyway. :D
I'll have to give it a try and see if it works without chaining one of these days :D
Pretty sure that was taken from the original walkthrough
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Originally posted by Jeremy971
Update: I am VERY near to completing the mission itself.
I have a couple more questions, and that should end this, and I will be able to release the mission.
First one: Debriefing.
How do you do this? How can you have the message saying one thing if you suceeded, or a message saying you failed?
I am not getting anything. All it says is "no debriefing available", or along those lines.
Second question:
The (friendly) capital ship "Vanguard" enters stating their going to destroy "Phoenix" for us. However, there are no beam turrents at all! How do you put these in?
I believe that is it, if anything else, it's one or MAYBE two more questions.
Thanks again.
One: Go into the debreifing editor and go add stage. Then modify the usage formula to whatever you need. It's pretty easy if you already know your sexps, you'll also need to take in account every possibility of anything happening in your mission.
Two: Beam-free-all sexp! :D When they arrive, set the beam free all for the ship that you want to begin using the beams. Or if you are using Fred2_Open, click the 'All Ships beam-free-all by default' box in the Mission Specs Editor.
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UPDATE: I NEED HELP!!!!!!!!!!!! This is DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!!!! One minute it works, then i add stuff, now it doesn't. then it does, not this is bad but this is good. I NEED SOMEONE TO LOOK AT THIS!
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Whoa, calm down. Breathe... breathe... Okay, first what did you add? Second, what version of Fred are you using? Third, how much money do you have? ;) Okay, ignore that last one.
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Patience...yelling solves nothing. It just gets people mad at you.
Jeremy isn't learning anything. Dude, look at the help file that comes with the editor. It is very good, and covers everything.
FRED isn't hard to use. Remember, don't just copy down the things we tell you, but also try to figure out how the things we tell you work.
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im sorry for yelling, but I tried to get one thing to work, and it failed. something else worked, but then failed. It's a constant flip flop and guess on what actually works and doesnt in the game.
I'll refresh the information, and maybe that will solve any conflicts.
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Originally posted by Jeremy971
However, there are no beam turrents at all! How do you put these in?
Nooooooo!!! Quick, someone flame him!
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Update: I do have beam turrents working great on the "silencer" (friendly). However, I'm unable to get turrents to work on the "enemy" capital ships". Is it different coding to get the enemies beam turrents to work?
I have refreshed the events and putting them back step by step. All is working great so far, fixed this other problem that helped quite a bit. I haven't checked the briefing and debriefing in that site one of you gave me. I'm sure I'll figure it out soon.
Basically, I just need help in knowing how to get the enemy turrents going.
Also, is there a way to get enemy ships to leave a fighter bay? I believe I got to work, except when the fighters came out, the game crashed.
It's a 50/50. However, the only way I got, or may have gotten the ships to leave the docking bay is have them warp in first, then when dead, they'd leave the fighter bay.
How do you just get them to leave the fighter bay without them warping in first?
Quickly: Two problems: Getting the enemy beam turrents to work, and having a wing coming out of the enemy's bay without having them warp in first round.
After this, all should work well, and hopefully, set to release.
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Seriously. Do the walkthrough. Don't just read it. Actually put your mission on hold for one night and actually work through the whole thing.
Reading the walkthrough does help you pick up nuggets of advice but if you actually do it you'll learn a lot more.