Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: boewolf on October 04, 2004, 05:54:20 am

Title: My old project reborn
Post by: boewolf on October 04, 2004, 05:54:20 am
Some of you might remember this.
(http://users.ncable.com.au/gtbernaldo/pics/TSJ/TVEA%20SJ-B-MPT.jpg)

My attempt at remaking the Fenris is the size of a jug or bigger.  In the end it was a total flop.

But I have started anew with it.  This is a prelimanery result.

(http://users.ncable.com.au/gtbernaldo/pics/TSJ/TJ.jpg)

(http://users.ncable.com.au/gtbernaldo/pics/TSJ/TJ2.jpg)

Current issues:
There are 8 non flat faces that i am having trobble fixing (due to I can't find a function that will split that face appropreatly and just that face)

Any sugestions how to fix these with truespace 3.2?

Any sugestions on how to improve the modle?
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Taristin on October 04, 2004, 09:05:19 am
1) Don't make it a juggernaught. please.

2) Try using the draw tool, for fixing the non-flat faces. It's the tool you use to draw an edge from two vertices... Works really well, and it it's already triangulated as such it shouldn't be too noticable. :nod:
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Janos on October 04, 2004, 11:15:04 am
I... I... Well. I'd think it might look better with the lower tower-type thingy somehow more massive, like

lol
(http://img15.exs.cx/img15/1295/hullofdoom4.jpg)
hull of doom,

but it's just my opinion. And yes, please don't make a jug. Make a heavy cruiser, or corvette, or something along those lines. Or something completely new, like a small and fast patrol craft for sustained surveillance or something.

edit: the goddamn line of marks just crashes, nevermind.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: magatsu1 on October 04, 2004, 11:21:04 am
point edit->vertices->poly draw. Select one of the verts (corners) and just draw an edge across to one of the other verts. Easy.

Or you can just trianguilate the mofo. Or let HT&L do it for you.

Looks more suited to a Cruiser than a Jug.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Black Wolf on October 04, 2004, 11:46:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by Janos
but it's just my opinion. And yes, please don't make a jug. Make a heavy cruiser, or corvette, or something along those lines. Or something completely new, like a small and fast patrol craft for sustained surveillance or something.


:nod: This would make a kick arse gunboat or patrol craft with fewer turrets.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Grimloq on October 04, 2004, 12:35:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by magatsu1
point edit->vertices->poly draw. Select one of the verts (corners) and just draw an edge across to one of the other verts. Easy.


no, no, no! thats for TS4 and up! hes got TS3! in TS3, do this:

1: select the face that you want to triangulate (you dont need to, but i like to so i can see it outlined. helps me see where the verts are, too)

2: select a vertex that you want to split by

3: while holding shift, click on the vertex that you want to split across to.

that will draw a line across the face from the selected vertex to the shift-clicked one. in TS4 and up, theres a tool for that, but in TS3, you use shift-click. ctrl-click adds to selection.

i hope that made sence...

and i would make that a new class: heavy cruiser. maybe 400-500 meters long, specifically designed as a destroyer-killer. or cruiser-killer, i dunno :p
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Unknown Target on October 04, 2004, 01:02:49 pm
Make it fatter in the middle, or make it taller on the top than on the bottom ;)
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: magatsu1 on October 04, 2004, 02:13:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grimloq
no, no, no! thats for TS4 and up! hes got TS3! in TS3, do this:


you sure about that ?:wtf:
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Grimloq on October 04, 2004, 02:49:22 pm
well, might be TS5 and up. but im sure its not in TS3... i had TS3 before i upgraded to 5.2 (labor day special!)
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: boewolf on October 04, 2004, 06:57:01 pm
Can a multi part turret handle more than three barrels and firing points?
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Grimloq on October 04, 2004, 07:07:02 pm
possibly, but ive never seen one before.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Taristin on October 04, 2004, 07:12:12 pm
A multi part turret can have 3 firing points, yes. but only the first willa ctually fire, until the turret code is fixed... :doubt:
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Grimloq on October 04, 2004, 07:30:13 pm
dang, :V: was really sloppy with FS2, werent they?:rolleyes:
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: boewolf on October 04, 2004, 07:36:52 pm
Ok model revised.  Its now a little larger than the Deimos.  But it has a lot more firepower for the anit capship job.  Its pin point defence is a little on the light side but i think it will hold its own.  Current turret count 44.  I am hoping to get it down to about 30.  Although they are spred out a lot and there are only three that i can get rid of at first glance.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Grimloq on October 04, 2004, 07:41:03 pm
44?????? thats WAY too many!!!
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: StratComm on October 04, 2004, 07:44:51 pm
Actually firing should rotate through all of the firepoints, but you'll only ever get one firing at a time.  Unless the turret firing code has gotten messed up somehow.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Blitzerland on October 04, 2004, 07:48:27 pm
Yup. The Orion (with its huge, three-barreled main turrets) is a good example of this. Too bad only one fires at once.

I hope it gets modified so all three can fire... :sigh:
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: boewolf on October 04, 2004, 08:02:33 pm
Ok i have worked 10 turrets out of the equasion.  But i am at a loss as to how to reduce it further without sacing too much more defence.

This is the orig 44 turreted version.
(http://users.ncable.com.au/gtbernaldo/pics/TSJ/TJ-turrets.jpg)

And the new 34 turreted version.
(http://users.ncable.com.au/gtbernaldo/pics/TSJ/TJ-turrets2.jpg)

With exeption for the multi part and the turrets on the sloaping part on the front all the turrets have one behind them.  On the very front there are two as well.

Any sugestions as to which turrets could stand to be lost?

EDIT:

When i try to convert it it gives a PolyGon > 20 error, so i triangulate the modle and PCS locks up and stops responding.  Probably due to the fact that the modle is 5935 verts and 5185 faces with turrets.  The hull by itself will convert but i can't get it to go with turrets.  Any ideas how to overcome this?
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: magatsu1 on October 05, 2004, 06:12:54 pm
doesn't sound like your grouping 'em right. Try converting the turret on it's own aswell as a test.


I can't really see where all those faces have gone to be honest.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: boewolf on October 05, 2004, 06:20:27 pm
thats because in those pics it isn't triangulated.

EDIT:

Just to make sure i have the right naming conventions.
Does this look right...
(http://users.ncable.com.au/gtbernaldo/pics/TSJ/maning.jpg)
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 05, 2004, 09:54:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
A multi part turret can have 3 firing points, yes. but only the first willa ctually fire, until the turret code is fixed... :doubt:

Actually, you can have as many as 6 firepoints on a turret, as long as 3 are laser/beam turrets and 3 are missile turrets.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: magatsu1 on October 06, 2004, 09:36:03 am
Quote
Originally posted by boewolf
thats because in those pics it isn't triangulated.

EDIT:

Just to make sure i have the right naming conventions.
Does this look right...
(http://users.ncable.com.au/gtbernaldo/pics/TSJ/maning.jpg)


take "LocLight,3" out of the Lod0 group and put it into "NoName1" group.The main detail and it's light shouldn't be grouped together. Rename the groups and lod0 too (I usually put "Hull" for the main detail.) just incase.

turret01 group needs a light too (for the turret base, the arm looks 100%)
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: boewolf on October 06, 2004, 09:16:35 pm
Ok how does this look.  (still doesn't convert triangulated or not)

|-lod0
    |-HULL
    |-LocLight3
    |-turret01
    |    |-turret01
    |    |   |-turret01
    |    |       |-geo
    |    |       |-H_turret01
    |    |-turret01-arm
    |          |-geo1
    |          |-turret01-fp_01
    |-turret02
        |-geo
        |-turret2-fp_01

when not triangulated it gives a PolyGon > 20, whatever that error is in PCS.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Swamp_Thing on October 07, 2004, 12:45:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by boewolf

when not triangulated it gives a PolyGon > 20, whatever that error is in PCS.


That means you have a polygon with more than 20 vertices. PCS and Freespace don´t like those, it avoids them like the plague...
Check for cilynders and other polys with many unconnected vertices. Connect them manually, if you don´t want to triangulize yet.
There´s a quick way to get rid of unnecessary vertex in your mesh: draw a cube all around your model, so that the model is completelly inside it, select your mesh, and click on the cube using "Object intersection". Works like a charm! :p
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: StratComm on October 07, 2004, 08:22:31 am
It could also mean that you have one vertex with more than 20 polygons touching it.  Most likely though, it's a face with a bunch of colinear points along one side, I always seem to forget about those.
Title: not meant to highjack..
Post by: Getter Robo G on October 07, 2004, 01:48:36 pm
But since Boewolf aluded to multi-turrets firing..

  I can't make each barrel fire at once so I cheated... Note this was a test ONLY and will be perfected later (color is as in anime but the ship's turrets have only 2 barrels each, the texture has 4 weapon lines)...

   So you limit the texture to three for tri-barrels and it looks like the ship has opened up with all batteries!

 "Give'em a Broadside!"
(http://img31.exs.cx/img31/2320/shockcannon2.jpg)


  So I can see using this method for other ships. (using appropriate texture of course). Right now main issue is the carging up glowpoint. Having one barely visible or just allowing one that encompasses the whole main turret and bleeds over to the others, or getting rid of it entirely and only leaving the right number of beams to fire with NO charging point ??? I guess it boils down to personal preferance...

   Anyway that's my idea on how to get teh Orion to fire all three at once. (Max and RT gang invented this beam, the Zent Weapon)...

L8tr!  BTW I like the ship, curious how it will look with textures as I am not a fan of the Fenris line.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: magatsu1 on October 07, 2004, 02:08:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by boewolf
|-lod0
    |-HULL
    |-LocLight3
    |-turret01
    |    |-turret01
    |    |   |-turret01
    |    |       |-geo
    |    |       |-H_turret01
    |    |-turret01-arm
    |          |-geo1
    |          |-turret01-fp_01
    |-turret02
        |-geo
        |-turret2-fp_01


can't really tell from that, but this is how it should look:

(http://premium.uploadit.org/magatsu1/wahwah.JPG)

Turret1 is multipart, the other single. And Detail (lods) heirachy is decide in wehich order you add them to the main group, not how you number 'em.

Don't bother looking at V models for help as they won't work. Try looking at other fan-made ships.

Is that right about firing points ? my missle battery can have up to 12 if I put a light in each tube. Would look cool if warheads were to launch from each tube in turn.
Title: Hmm
Post by: Getter Robo G on October 07, 2004, 03:01:35 pm
That's a good question, I never tried it... A massive rack of missiles open firing would be cool... Rocket pods looks cool on fighters but I have no idea if the same concept would work on caps... (crosses fingers!)
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: Swamp_Thing on October 07, 2004, 03:13:14 pm
You mean, something like this? ;7

(http://images5.theimagehosting.com/missileturret1000.jpg)

(http://images5.theimagehosting.com/missileturret1001.jpg)

If you want to see it in full blazing glory, you´ll have to wait for its release, atached to the hull of a space mastodont. :D
Title: OOOOOooooooo Purdy!
Post by: Getter Robo G on October 07, 2004, 04:24:10 pm
But with that texture it looks like you inset two gatling guns into missile mounts! (or could it be a new type Phalanx point defense gun?

  Yeah I KNOW it's a missile turret but it just looks like that to me... (I'm odd)

  Supeb textures and that deckplate looks (Interesting)...

YOU TEASE! :p   (if I knew how to copy and paste turrets... STEAL!)
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: boewolf on October 07, 2004, 08:08:36 pm
Ok i have found where the converting problem is.  Its the main hull.  untriangulated it gives the poly 20 error and triangulated it makes PCS stop responding?



Quote
There´s a quick way to get rid of unnecessary vertex in your mesh: draw a cube all around your model, so that the model is completelly inside it, select your mesh, and click on the cube using "Object intersection".


When i do this it tells me that the hull is not solid and then that i can't perform boolean operation, change the relative positions of the object or change boolean operation?
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: StratComm on October 07, 2004, 08:12:54 pm
It's because the hull is made up of several unconnected elements.  Run it through 3dexploration and merge equal vertices.
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: boewolf on October 07, 2004, 08:18:24 pm
Either I am stupid in truespace 3.2 or I don't have anything that looks like 3dexploration or merge eqtual vertices.  Please tell me i am just blind...
Title: My old project reborn
Post by: StratComm on October 07, 2004, 08:22:14 pm
3dexploration is a 3rd party tool, it's what people commonly use to convert 3ds to cob more reliably than truespace can handle.  The other option is that you've got a hole in your mesh that's of your creation.