Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: AlphaOne on November 03, 2004, 04:50:02 pm
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F**k who loged on from this computer?Sorry about that. I dident noticed that someone was loged on from this computer the previous post was actualy mine.
Old vs New
I saw somewhere in this forum a coment of someone that said that most of the old ships that were still present in the FS2 campaign were obselite but that is not the case.
If I remember corectly it was an orion that held the whole GTVA at bay . I remember something in the debriefing of one mison that the same NTF destroyer managed to take out several GTVA capships old and new....so my opinion is to respect what once was the greatest(Orion) and admire what now is (Hecate). A wise comander never looks at what the enemy poseses and loughs because once to often in the FS2 campaign we have found ourselfs facing ships that were considered to be obselite but still managed to inflict heavy damage. So to conclude I would like a general opinion on the old ships vs. the new ships.
P.S. Whats with that Man in the MIG?
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Lemme find the whole story for "Man in the MiG"...
Or not...well, that sucks. The Hard Light Array seems to have ceased functioning correctly. I can't get at anything in the gallery.
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Let's go through strengths and weaknesses of the Orion and the Hecate.
Hecate:
Strengths: Good anti-fighter/bomber coverage, large hangar bay
Weaknesses: Only one big anti-capital ship turret. If a Hecate gets flanked by anything larger than a cruiser (not counting the Lilith) it is in big trouble.
Orion:
Strengths: Good anti-capital ship firepower, large hangar bay
Weaknesses: Terrible anti-fighter/bomber coverage.
Their weaknesses seem to be totally opposite of each other.
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I always prefer the orion since either of them have a major problem defending against enemy fighters/bombers anyway. Their armnament is just spectacular for destroying those pesky shivan cruisers and corvettes.
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Wtf? Why are there identical threads?
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Someone decided that they needed to start a thread they had already started with a different username. Then someone else posted the exact same reply in both. But the most bizarre part is that there was apparently somehow a mislogin in the first place.
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The mislogin part is what has me lost...
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... when you split up your post between the two topics.
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:lmfao:
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so um, can some nice mod/admin person merge the two topics and lets get back on track and discuss? :)
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Now imagine how confusing that would be.
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Well I think that if you have to go gainst a destroyer or two the best option would be an Orion(caounting on the fact that the orion has some 3 or 4 wing of interceptors protecting it against enemy fighters and bombers. But if you have to go gainst lets say one enemy destroyer and say one or two criusers or corvetes (shivan ones) or even terran I would prefer the Hecate because it has good antifighter protection so that its own fighters and bommbers could concentrate on taking out enemy cap ships.
I believe that a super destroyer would be a fusion of the Orion and the Hecate.
It would result a ship that has decent AAF protection and veri good anti capship weponry.
P.S. The latest MIG the MIG29 M is a superb aircraft capable of incredible maneuverability (it does not have stealth but on the other hand not many aircraft have this capabilaty). Even the old Mig29 is a excelent fighter.
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The Array seems to be functioning at the moment.
The story my render is based on is referring to MiG-21 Fishbeds, which wouldn't be described as superb aircraft in comparison with a lot of other stuff that's out there. One of the points of the story was that this exceptional fighter pilot was defeated due to the fact that he was flying outdated hardware.
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
Well I think that if you have to go gainst a destroyer or two the best option would be an Orion(caounting on the fact that the orion has some 3 or 4 wing of interceptors protecting it against enemy fighters and bombers. But if you have to go gainst lets say one enemy destroyer and say one or two criusers or corvetes (shivan ones) or even terran I would prefer the Hecate because it has good antifighter protection so that its own fighters and bommbers could concentrate on taking out enemy cap ships.
I believe that a super destroyer would be a fusion of the Orion and the Hecate.
It would result a ship that has decent AAF protection and veri good anti capship weponry.
P.S. The latest MIG the MIG29 M is a superb aircraft capable of incredible maneuverability (it does not have stealth but on the other hand not many aircraft have this capabilaty). Even the old Mig29 is a excelent fighter.
The problem is that both are short range fighters, and nowadays BVR (Beyond Visual Range) combat is said to be the tune of war. So even with the overpowered monster engines they start from a disadvantage, and are reduced to close range final stage interception.
The Mig-IMI though looks like a true inheritor of the long range air superiority/interceptor fighter the Mig-31 had been - which is still a hell of a plane even nowadays.
Finally the latest Su-27 incarnates (Su-33,35 and 37) are the best middle range air superiority fighters and beside the last generation fighters (F22 Raptor, F35 and EF-Typoon) nothing has a chance against it in a 1 on 1 engagement. Their lack of stealth and supercruise though makes the later planes far superior in the non-centralised information networked air grid that becomes dominant in warfare.
BTW I agree that most Pre Capella Era ships are quite potent, and some of the newer designs aren't the best possible choice, though it is a known issue that economist can screw you twice and still persuade your boss/wife/mother in law that it was done for your improovement.
There greatest shortcoming though is there inability to withstand prolonged engagemnts like their Cappela Era brothers do.
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Agreed . But still I must say that the best choice for the GTVA would of been to try and improv e on the Orion design like they did with the Herc.
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Improved?
Except for some extra armor the herc2 was definitely not an improvement over the herc1...
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Well, the Aeolus is a definite improvment over the Leviathan, I've just never been clear on why it was so expensive to produce coparatively.
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Originally posted by Zarax
Improved?
Except for some extra armor the herc2 was definitely not an improvement over the herc1...
.... have you ever done multiplayer...??? ok.. you can get kills in a Herc 1.. but.... it's.. a.. brick... just lacks manouverability (and yes, I don't know how to spell that :P )
so, the Herc 1 has more Gunpoints... that's cool... but... that's the only thing better about the Herc 1 IMO....
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The Herc is an assault fighter, not a dogfighter...
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Originally posted by Liberator
Well, the Aeolus is a definite improvment over the Leviathan, I've just never been clear on why it was so expensive to produce coparatively.
I think the Aeolus line was dropped because they were no longer constructing Fenris/Leviathan frames, and because the construction of an Aeolus was not significantly cheaper than the construction of a Deimos. I still think the GTVA is out of its mind for dropping cruisers from their fleets, but that's the plot of FS2 as it stands.
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Originally posted by Zarax
The Herc is an assault fighter, not a dogfighter...
then why does a really great deal (about 40% i think..) of the multiplayer pilots use the Herc II.....???
Oh, well.. guess this is useless:p IMO the Herc II is better, for both single and multiplayer....
You Think not,, and Maybe the majority thinks not.. it's not important I guess...???
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De gustibus non disputandum est.
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The Aeolus was being constructed by n00bs at the large-ship building business, too. To be honest, I think the GTVA didn't really give it enough of a chance. 24 ships is probably one or two production runs. As RNI Shipyards got the hang of building cruiser-sized ships, the costs and build time would probably decrease.
However, one wonders if, now that they've seen what ithe Aeolus can do in action, the GTVA will order some more of them. And the cost may not be such a bad thing, after Capella, since it would be pumping money into the economy.
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the true incarnation of the herc 1 in fs2 is the aries it is a true heavy fighter the herc 2 is more of a medium fighter. and personally i think the orion is better than the hecate, hecates always get hammered by other cap ships they seemed a waste of money in the designing and production of new destroyers when they could completly upgrade the orion.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
The Aeolus was being constructed by n00bs at the large-ship building business, too. To be honest, I think the GTVA didn't really give it enough of a chance. 24 ships is probably one or two production runs. As RNI Shipyards got the hang of building cruiser-sized ships, the costs and build time would probably decrease.
I doubt that tech description is accurate. We saw about 20 different Aeoluses in FS2, and half of those got destroyed. That's in the space of one month. Maybe Command just liked the Aeolus so much they decided to keep the rest of them a secret. ;)Originally posted by Zarax
De gustibus non disputandum est.
Er... the tastiness is not disputed? :wtf:
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Goob, it's an open meaning...
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As for the Herc II I agree it is one of the more underrated FS ships but by the very fact that is it used a lot in Multi player (and recommened by multi player experts to noobs) shows that it is very versitle craft.
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First of all, "gustibus" is ablative. :p
I think a more liberal translation might be, "There is no accounting for taste." :)
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I'm not sure where to post this so I'll post it here as it has to do with this post and it's "couterpart" with the same title:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27646.0.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27646.0.html)
It was metioned that the authour of this post logged in from a public computer.
When I registered I did so from my own computer at home only a short time before this post, and unless I'm much ,mistaken we don't even live in the same country.
And I have ONLY logged into this site from my computer at home.
I'm bringing this up because I have never experienced anything like this before, and are curious to know how it happend.
I'm not blaming anyone, I just don't belive this kind of thing should happen and I'd like to bring this to the attention of the admin in case there was a "hiccup" in the system.
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Off the top of my head, here's all the Aeolus cruisers I remember from FS2 and their fates. I'll try and correct this in a bit, after I play some of the missons again...
"?" means that the cruiser's fate is unknown. This is for ships you only seen once that don't get blown up, or for ships who can survive a mission but don't always do so.
GTC Vigilant: Destroyed
GTC Warwick: ?
GTC Agrippa: ?
GTC Stalwart: ?
GTC Templar: ?
GTC Malta: ?
GTC Erintax: ?
NTC Rapier: Destroyed
NTC Loyola: Destroyed
NTC Mylae: Destroyed
NTC Hellespont: Destroyed
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just have an admin compare the IP's...
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Originally posted by DDM_Dragonlord
When I registered I did so from my own computer at home only a short time before this post, and unless I'm much ,mistaken we don't even live in the same country.
And I have ONLY logged into this site from my computer at home.
First things first, change your passwords. Immediately.
Then we'll look into what happened, here. How the hell AlphaOne could have done that is beyond me. more likely a server hiccup as you say.
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NTC Saharan: Destroyed
NTC Epigoni: ?
NTC Liberty: ?
I don't think we can know for certain if the NTC Rapier was an Aeolus, as it was only seen/mentioned in a debriefing.
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True...so scratching that off the list, that gives us...
13 Aeolus cruisers. Of which 5 were destroyed.
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Well I have no idea how the whole login thing happened.I just clicked on the post topic icon and there I was posting a reply without even loging in and stuff,but I dident pay any atention to it I thought that maibe you dont need to login in order to post.
And by the way I'm from romania so no i dont think were from the same country.
Returning to the topic I believe the Hecate is a very good comand and control vesel because it has good armour/armaments/fighter-bommber capacity. And as long as it doesnt get flanked it is very good against other capital ships. I was a bit surprised when in FS2 you have to protect the Aquitane because it was incapacitated by a shivan corvette I thought enything that small wouldnt last more then 30 seconds against a Hecate but it apears I was wrong.
On the other hand the Orion has its weakpoints also. Not having adequate AAAF defence sistems but it is mi ferm beliefe that a Hecate would be toasted by an orion if it ever went head to head(the Orion being more heavely armed).
A solution would be to improve on the Orion by cuting down its fighter/bommber bay to acomodate something like 100 spacecraft(that is if the Orion can cary as much as the Hecate about 150) and the spare room beeing used to pack more generators for aditional AAAF defence sistems. And I believe that if the GTVA would try and improve on the beam cannon technology to make them more compact more energy eficient without decreasing theyr damage I believe that the Orion would walk over enything out there of equal size even a Rackshasa destroyer.
As for the Hecate the same idea downsize its fighter/bommber bay to make room for some more beam cannons maybe 2 BG.
P.S. They retired the Mig29 Sniper (romanian version with imroved electronics and weapons sistem) what a shame it was a beutiful aircraft.
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No matter. Welcome to HLP, DDM_Dragonlord. :)
:welcome:
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THe Orion rocks the Hecate in head 2 head combat (no fighters involved and according to #Battletest (which is available from the missions page in HLP's downloads section)) but in a bombing run i'd rather attack an Orion than a Hecate.
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The Hecate is still a serious threat to almost any capital ship that gets in front of it because of that BGreen.
The only reason that Shivan Corvette in Argonautica lasts longer than 30 seconds is because the BGreen's recharge time is longer than that.
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
And I believe that if the GTVA would try and improve on the beam cannon technology to make them more compact more energy eficient without decreasing theyr damage I believe that the Orion would walk over enything out there of equal size even a Rackshasa destroyer.
You mean Ravana?
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It's less about Energy Efficency than it is decreasing the fire rate. It takes their cannons 20-30 seconds to recycle, the shivan stuff(aside from the SRed) 5-10. It probably has something to do with their connection to subspace. Terran/Vasudan don't have a good way of disposing of the generated heat fast, the Shivans probably just dump into subspace. Also, being Techno-Organic, they probably have a higher tolerance for radiation in general so they don't have to shield their cannons as heavily as T/V.
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Explains why the Ravana has such crappy turret shielding on it's LReds.
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The reason that Moloch in Argonautica lasts so long is because it's not in the Aquitane's forward arc...
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Yeah it is. The darn thing stops right in front of the Aquitaine. I think you are thinking of that mission where you test out the stealth fighters.
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Yeah, I am.
Aquitane needs to be saved too many times for its own good...
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LOL...that's right...
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Yeah, I am.
Aquitane needs to be saved too many times for its own good...
Inconsiderate bastards that they are
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How did Petrarch get to be an Admiral anyways, if he always needs Alpha 1 to pull his rear out of the fire?
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No-one else has an Alpha 1.