Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Archived Star Wars Conversion Threads => Topic started by: stithe2000 on November 04, 2004, 07:42:21 pm
-
First off.... Please excuse me for posting in your part of the forums... I am part of TPB team, but I am spinning off my own mod.. It is a pretty bold mod, and will bring a very good twist to the FS2 modding community.... It is called FreeSpace 2 Universes: When Universes Collide. It is an extreme what if mod that brings all of the major mods together... Star Trek, Star Wars, B5, FS2, Battlestar Galatica, and many more will be attempted to be seen in this mod... It is in it's infant stages right now, but I have a few pix to show the insane fun I am offering...
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/CloseUp0.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Teaser00.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/ingamebattles02.jpg)
The klingon brid of prey is brand new, and I made her myself... She has 5 LODs, 3k+ poly on LOD0, and is stable... Have all shine, glow, and detailed textures... She even has here own effects and AI.... I have her very close to movie/ series quality.... I am working on a stable death star, and have a non-turret working model done... I made her bout a year and a half ago... I would like to help you with your models... To help bring them to movie like quality... I am also working with TBP crew, and will be sharing my time equally amongst mods... I hope your team would be interested in helping to bring this mod to life! I am going to be getting web support in bout 4 months... This project is at it's infant stages.... Thanx for your time in advance! Stithe2000
-
Err, heya. Kudos on the BOP (though you could have just grabbed Omniscaper's one you know :p).
We're always looking for new modellers and texturers - I'm sure Karma will be along shortly.
-
that BoP is even better than Omniscapers O_O
(no offence intended Omni)
-
Well.... I did her from scratch guys! It took bout a week of putting her together... Thx for the feedback!
-
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27687.0.html
http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73079
Here are other spots where I have posted this idea on!
-
Are all those models yours? For example the ISD looks VERY familiar to me, it is likely that is the Star Destroyer that was released for FS1. I don't know the other worlds, only FS and Star Wars, so I can't tell any opinion on the others.
We would be glad to apply you as a modeller, if you insist on joining.
-
Oh. Oh my god. Do you have any idea what you have just gotten yourself into? Versus arguments have a distinct tendency to bring the lowest common denominator of sci-fi fan out into the open. Even if you have your own vision of how you want this crossover mod to be and have the capacity to control/ignore/ban the sort of flame wars that tend to spring up around such things, actually creating a finished project is going to be balancing hell. That is, unless you take the braindead, stupid, all too common way out by making all things equal, and thereby totally erasing the point of having a crossover and eliminating anything interesting about the mod. OTOH, if you're just making a ship pack and not a campaign to go with it, it shouldn't be that hard - it's just going to take some getting used to by anyone who tries to make a mission with it.
Oh, and are you doing old BSG or new BSG?
Anyway, I can't quite tell here, but just tell me if I understand correctly - what you do not want to do is to create the whole thing from scratch. Instead, you're posting all over the place because you want to help the individual universe mods out with modeling/texturing in exchange for permission to combine their work and then balance them. If so, good, starting from scratch would take so long you're almost sure not to finish, and offering concrete evidence of your capacity and willingness to help the existing mods is certainly the most reasonable approach I've seen yet to this sort of thing.
-
Not only does he ask permission to use our models, he also wants to join and help us. This is mutual.
-
But yeah, crossovers are a very controversial issiue. There are many people (like me) whose love foe them can only be measured in negative amounts.
-
That pic with the SD was taken bout 2 years ago when I was learning how to mod... And the Millenium Falcon I created from scracth, she was one of my first... That pic was before the SCP, but the one with the BoP is very recent using the SCP...
I am not going to making every thing equal, but I am taking into heavy condsieration the physics between each universes.... And yes... There will be a campaign, but it is a what if type of deal which will need a lot of stories to go along with it...
Lastly, I would like to use each model from each major mod yes, but on the same token examine them and help to add more to them... I will not mess with any ones model without their consent, but I hope at least a vew new things will be tried out!
As for the flame wars, they just forgot how to be a big kid, and just have fun! Or they are being a big kid, and throwing a tantrom.... What I am offering is a chance to experience the what if senario! It will be fun!
-
Go for it. Don't be a pessimist Lynx. Give it a chance :)
-
Soooooo you have a millenium falcon made by you both models and textures and already converted for fs2???????
OUCH!!
can we see more pics please:D?
BTW we badly need someone to work on gallofree transport and/or nebulon-b frigate. Are you interested?
As for our ships, I surely will give permission to use all my own ships, but I can't do that for third party models.
On a side note, that BOP is wonderful;)
-
Thanx for the compliment for the BoP... I am almost done with the Galaxy Class Federation ship... I'll have pix up soon on that... as for the Falcon the model I have is 2 years old, and I am aiming to redo her... However you are more than welcome to take a look at her... And sure... I'll have a go.... I have a few other models I am working on right now though, but I will knock them out if no one else has!
-
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Millenium%20Falcon03.jpg)
Here is the Falcon... Have to dig her out, and get some new shots outta her... She is an oldy, but she looks nice for one of my 1st pof models! In that shot it ws shooting at Shivans and a Tie Fighter!
-
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
Go for it. Don't be a pessimist Lynx. Give it a chance :)
I just hate them. Can't do a thing against it. Maybe it's a side effect of hating SpaceBattles, tho.
-
Lynx: You would be a perfect beta tester.... The reason why is because you would stay true to the universe you like best, and would make sure everthing stays true to what you know towards that universe! Whats the worst that could happen? You have a good time, or you simply delete the mod if you dont like it! :)
-
Well, seeing as you're obviously serious about this, might I ask what sort of views you hold on the tech for B5, ST, and SW, in general terms, and with an emphasis on firepower?
I'm a long-time SDnet resident, if that tells you anything.
-
OK... Good question, and one that will be looked at and fiddled with heavily.... Here is the consideration of the universes...
B5: Heavy Hulls and good weapons... Fighters maneuver well, but big ships are mostly sluggish.... The few that do move well at all have medium to light armour... This applies to the younger races that I have seen in the series... As for the vorlons, and shadows... Almost all there ships (except for their huge ships) move very well.... Shadows very very well.... Adaptive hulls, and excellent weapons.... More on that later, and it is up for more debate later I am sure!
Star Trek: Heavy shileds, good engine systems, very adaptive, and good weapon systems, but medium to light hulls.... CLOAK being a biggy, for it is used more in this galaxy than the others...
Lastly they have the photon and quantom torps... Those will come into heavy play, and effects... Most of the ships they have are cruisers, or caps anyways, so they bring a big plus to their aresonal! Plus lets not forget the Borg...
Star Wars: Their big ships maneuver well, and are very well armoured... Weapon systems are pretty heavy as well... The use a mild shield system (deflectors) The smaller ships have extreme speeds and maneuvering... Then their is the "force", and the death star to consider as well.... Lets not forget the mind boggling numbers the empire has aquired... And considering how star wars is based... It may have more advancements than the other galaxies...
I am sure their is a dozen more things that can be pointed out, and exploited... That will be covered over time.... Big things are getting the models done... effects... textures... then we can balance out the tables as the missions are being built to tell the stories that will unfold! That is why I need help from everyone! To keep it true, or at least close to true to all these universes to create that unique experience that this calls for!
-
btw, I think that you'll surely have permission to use the ST ships converted by omniscaper, since they are released to public.
check the freespace modding section for em
-
New Galaxay in the worx
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/f-galaxy-a2.jpg)
-
check this one:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27740.0.html
-
Almost! The textures to it look almost right... I like to tweak until it has the real feel to it... However those are good!!! I might have to stop and take a look!
-
I have just made a new post on some SCP ideas.... Has anyone else tapped on these ideas, and if so, have you heard anything that might be out soon on these ideas?
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27772.0.html
-
stithe2000, nice homebrews especially the BOP!!! I've yet to develop my modelling skills to that level. I model small fighters for now (SAAB Hammerhead - my first homebrew http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27718.0.html)
Don't forget to include SAAB in the crossover equation. I think a Hammerhead vs Tie fighter would be interesting considering they both don't have shields. Or perhaps a Saratoga vs a Star Destroyer.
In reguard to the Trek vs SW statistics..... tread carefully!!! A lot of hot heads in that debate. I still insist Trek would DESTROY SW :devil:
In reguard to the Galaxy, good luck smoothgrouping the sucker in Truespace. Check out Styxx 3dsmax plugin if you have that proggy. It does wonders.
Hey Karma, you were asking me before about conversion assistance? PM as to not speek off topic.
-
Thx Omni! However, I have done the Vorlon Cruiser, Transpor, and that BoP... Each had their own little quarks on how to adapt them to Freespace.... Most of it is just triangulation, and making someparts sectional so it will convert... As for the versus physics, we'll see what happens.... It will take take time and effort from everyone to get it right.... Plus lots of beta testing.... I am sure once test missions starts popping here and there we should start to see where things are going! Any volunteers?
-
Can you compete with Scotchy's galaxy? Are you gonna conintue modelling it for FS2? After seeing Scotchy's skills, its gonna be a tough comparison though I do have my gripes with Scotchy's Galaxy, the thickness of the pylons for example. Of course I too love a good modelling excercise. I'll eventually start modelling my own Sovereign Class.
-
Omni: I'll tell you what... I would like to work on the sovereign LOD0... Would you like to help me with the lods, and texturing her? You were working on your Trek mod for a bit longer... Plus... Would you like to play with my BoP?
-
oh, if you guys need to make some modelling excerices I'm plenty of models I can give you to do :D:D:D
Omni, I don't know if stithe is aware of all the models you already converted (I don't know if he want to do them on his own anyway) maybe you could put him in the right direction for those files?
omni, that conversion help is something I'll need in future for my new awing, buuut when/if you'll have time/wish/right mood we may use some hand in converting some xwaup ships (which require something more than a simple file format conversion, so it isn't so easy to find someone able to do it). Anyway, I'll wrote you a pm as soon as I'll have a bit more time
-
Cool! As for redoing all the models... I am trying not to, for I am only redoing those that really need it.... Plus the ones that are already out could have a new LOD0 to add to the model.... As for the rest... A little tweaking here and there just to get the right effect... I am looking for a real lasting experience with this mod... The type that creates goose bumps, and hair raises! That only comes with a whole lot of lovin for the models, textures, effects, and the story line revealled in the missions.... Any help, or testing you guys can provide would be awsome and greatly appreciated!
-
stithe2000, click on the blue text on my signature (just figured how to make those.... I'm still a forum noob). Thats a link to all the Trek ships I've made available for FS2. The Sovy I think already has a near perfect LOD0.
ChonocidalGuy is currently working on a v2.0 with BEEFIER textures (if possible, considering thy're already at 4096x2048 sizes)
-
Crickets!
-
Hey!! Your BoP is not badI However, your fed ships look sharp... your Vorcha though... I have one made, but the LOD0 is bout to be redone.... However the textures are a bit better... I am doing a new color adjust to it... maybe we can blend the models together, and make an awsome vorcha... also... I have a an old K'Tinga done... But like most of my models they are before SCP, and so the LOD0 needs lovin, but it still looks sharp... I will put some pix up later, but for now I have to b off to work! Laters!
-
for what? making themissions or testing them?
No time for the former, but may have enough for the latter.
Btw, I read the story idea on the other thread, its interesting for sure (I see you don't lack the enthusiasm for it either!) and I look forward to actually playing it as well.
Good luck :)
-
yeah, he isn't surely missing enthusasm....he's a bit crazy I suppose:D, I'm plentiful of problems just with the sw conversion alone, and he want to add to it some 3 or 4 more TCs eheh:)
-
aaactually....I bet I could create a single mission too ya know....if I had a SD model or even a few fighter pofs & table entries as well ya know......I mean, the trek models are already there....and we have Freespace as well ;7
-
I wish I had that ferver of energy again. I remember going completely insane when I first discovered you folks and flooded this community with Trek models out of the blue. Now that I'm aware of the workload involved in homebrew modelling and texturing and then producing and balancing a ship's game stats, I've slowed down quite a bit.
Quality is now more important to me than quantity.
-
He he, we are everywhere...
A few months back I posted on Spacebattles.com that I wanted to get serious and focus this SAME issue on different universes so they would realistically be represented. I asked their math genuises if they can make a comparision table so I could calibrate the Weapons in the "mega-mod".
BIG MISTAKE...
All it started was a flame war. First they attacked me and the mod idea as "unbalanced" (they didn't get the point that I didn't give a squat about balance I wanted to be true to THE TECH FIRST, then worry about balance. It was for my enjoyment first of all!).
After that, the posters started attacking each other in the age old arguments of "who's tech is better" and "who would dominate", blah , blah, blah...
I never went back to that thread as I was so disgusted by the lack of maturity to have a simple discussion about tech.
I think you are gonna run into the same problem I did. We can read books and find out a Phaser is (X) mega joules (or whater), and a Turbo Laser is (X) GT's but in the end how much damage does that mean?
MAYBE some of OUR resident math/physics genuises can be persueded to make a baseline formula or chart of weapons types from sci-fi and we can equate them to damage potential. (this takes care of weaponry but the on to the OTHER issue)...
SHIELDING, Grrrr... ST has shields rated for X-X amounts), SW has their rating system, SG-1 has thiers, the other half of sci-fi doesn't have shields (B5, Andromeda, Robotech (ok just for sdf-1), ect)..
As you can see it's a geat and GLORIOUS ideal, but it's gonna take some damn hard thinking..
(I am so glad He's here! Finally someone who can see the whole mega-verse and say "what if?"...)
-
1st off... Lets remind ourselves... :) THIS IS FOR SHEAR FUN!! :) Next... Yes.... I agree we should compile a chart... However, it will take time just like this mod, and the story line will.... It will take time, and maturity! Getter Robo G do you have any suggestions who we might start talking to about this chart idea? This would be a good thing to add with this mod when it is released way way way in the future! That way... It is in black and white, and there should not be much complaining of sorts... (I expect some, but oh well!) SO, lets start brain storming on this and see what we come up with... In the mean time, I am going to try to start a forum just for the Univereses Mod, and hopefully soon after a website to support us, and let people know what we are doing! Aftter we get a ways with this we can see bout ftp support, and then have some real fun! More on this later, but for now.. Keep the ideas coming! Thanx Robo!!!
-
"I Live for the one , I DIE for the one..."
..."A quaint and noble philosophy, but why does the emphasis always seem to weight on the second part of that statement?" - G'Kar
I sent you a pm about a hosting option.. l8tr
-
I'm fairly familiar with these matters, and I do occasionally feel guilty for lurking and not contributing. Either I, or individuals I can find at SDnet, would probably be able to help with charts and formulas without any more flamewar threads than absolutely necessary. And some simply are inevitable with a project like this.
As to the question of what joules and watts and tons mean in terms of damage, well that's a fun one. For example, consider a nice spherical nickel-iron asteroid ten meters in diameter. You want to vaporize this asteroid; the absolute minimum energy required is the equivalent of 7.5 kilotons of TNT. A kiloton is 4.2 terajoules, that is, 4.2*10^12 joules.
However, a sci-fi weapon rated at 7.5 kT is far more likely to crater or melt this asteroid than it is to vaporize it. Why? Well, vaporization is what you get if you put a 7.5 kT nuke inside the asteroid and set it off. That's all of the energy applied evenly to the asteroid far faster than it can be reradiated. You detinate that nuke at the surface, and less than half the energy is going to go into the asteroid, and not at all evenly. Now you try hitting the asteroid with a high-wattage laser pulse rated at 7.5 kT. Some of the laser will be reflected, depending upon what sort of laser it is and what the surface of the asteroid is like. The initial hit will hit with full power, but now you've got vaporized and melted metal streaming out of the hole and diffracting the laser. Furthermore, you're only hitting a tiny point on the asteroid, so there's more of a tendency for the laser to put a hole in it than there is for the whole thing to instantly turn to gas.
Even so, it really shouldn't be that hard to come up with nice little values called 'damage points' if we put our minds to it. However, I know little about how damage and such are calculated in FS, and what sort of little bits of programming it would be possible to squeeze out of the local CS types, nor do I have any idea what might have been determined to be the current state of FS tech, so I really don't know where to begin.
-
Alan! Sounds like you have your brain on full throttle! Pretty good stuff... I am fairly familiar with physics myself.... FS2 also has the capability of projectile weaponary as well.... The factors of programming these weapons in the table are pretty simple... For example:
Gargoyle Cannon
Damage: 65; 75
(Multiplication factor of effects of this weapon)
Armour Damage: 6.5
Shields: 4.0
Sub-System: 1.5
Flags: This option would be used to identify EMP, Shutter, or other effects the weapon may have on a particular ship...
;)
This is a simple weapon that would use map effects, and rgb numbering for the light, glow, and effects you woulf want... Then there would also be flags as well... This complexity of this chart is not just on weapons... But speed factor, armour factor, and in shield factor! These charts will not only set us creative types straight, but make the game a whole lot more fun... Mr. Bolte Thanx for taking the time to share your knowledge with us, and let us know how it goes to form up a nice little team for this brain storming part of this fun project! If you have any questions on the tables used for FS2 let any of us know, and we will help the best we can... In the mean time, do you have the latest copy of the SCP, and updated files of FS2 (still need the old VP files, but to remedy that soon!)? Let me know, and we cann see bout getting all that to you! Thanx again!
-
if you need help with .tbl weapons, just give me a holler :D
-
Thx Singh... Also I am asking for a forum for exclusively FS2 Universes... I have you on the Internal group request if the forum is approved.... I am glad you will be apart of this little adventure!
-
Just an extra note:
Karma
Robo
Alan
I have also asked for you all to be apart of the internal workings of this forum once approved as well! Looking forward to the fun we will make!
-
From Carl the Shivan's Borg Torpedo, last year I made about 7-9 ST race torpedos. They work like a charm as primaries in retail, however in FS open as secondaries it gets, complicated.
Do we have a weapons graphic expert? FSopen handles secondaries weapons kinda , kinky, and some weapons that worked fine in retail need tweaking. It would be best if someone else looked into this. I just make suggestions and stuff...
[edit] when a proper thread location is made for this subject I will post screens of what I mean...
-
I already have the torps working on what I have already... It is not too bad, but effects may need work.... But as Robo Said when the new area opens we can begin knocking it out!
-
Ah, a new hobby. I've been without one for too long. For reference, my e-mail is abolte (at) andrew.cmu.edu. I'm not really all that good at coming up with a lot of data myself, the way individuals like Mike Wong and Curtis Saxton are known for, but I've been following SWvST and a bit of B5 and BSG long enough to have some idea of where to start. My physics knowledge is a bit limited, I am only a first-year engineering student after all! However, I have far more knowledgable aquaintences, so I hope to get some help from them, whether or not I get anyone to help with the mod directly. I'll go make a post or two in another forum.
Okay, weapons sound simple enough to start with. Tell me if I've got this right: Beams do a certain dmg/s, and pulses have a simple dmg amount. Then you have the three factors v. subsystems, shields, and armor. I'm confused about one thing: you seem to have two numbers in the Damage line. What does that mean? Is it any relation to damage decrease with distance, or does FS2 have such a capability?
I'm guessing shields, armor and subsystems just have a simple hitpoint value.
What's Shutter? Is EMP just subsystem-only damage, or is it more complex?
I recall that there were some difficulties getting capship shielding to work - can I get an update on the current situation?
Speed/accel is going to be an interesting issue. The game is geared at low constant velocities in a 60 km cube, so...yeah. That'll take some thinking. Even weapon pulse velocities are affected by this dynamic.
And let's not even start to think about the complexities involved in translating the beam weaponry. FS beams go through FS shields, but you can't automatically say that that means phasers will go through FS shields or that a BFred will go through a ST ships' shielding. Then we have turbolasers, which have been conclusively determined to be lightspeed weapons which fire a visible pulse along the beam while warming up, and increase to full intensity moments later. Then there's phasers, which visibly don't travel at lightspeed. Which reminds me - determining what time period ST we want to use will be an issue - personally, I recommend the Dominion War era as my first instinct. Capabilities are fairly well known, fighters and pure warships are relatively common, and the Galaxies have all been refit so they don't explode on the first sign of danger.
I haven't played FS2 in a while, and my current comp couldn't run the SCP. Not sure it could even run FS2. Again - I know I've read stuff analyzing the FS universe's weapons, armor, etc. - could someone point out where I can find that so that I don't have to go hunting through threads and hyperlinks?
-
I just went to the stardestroyer.net and it states that Slave 1(that ship that is piloted by Jango Fett in AOTC and Boba Fett in ESB) is hundreds of times more powerful than Galaxy class starship. :wtf:
Now i'm not about to argue with that statement but that is obviously unapliccable for the game. I'mean are we going to have missions with 100 Galaxys attacking a single X-wing? What about when Star Destroyer decides to show up?
-
1st: Alan: Beam weapons allow for constant damage for bout 2 to seconds pending if it is set on Anti-Fighter mode, or big cap mode... In most of the case it will be Anti-fighter mode, for most of the ships we are fond of move pretty close to fighter type movements!
2nd: Ratri: That is why we are having brain stormers work all this out... You see no one knows yet what the exact versus chart would be... The only way we are going to know is if we ask the question... Work on it... Perhaps even ask a few of the original idea creators for some tips to the equavelance of these weapons, speeds, etc!
The only thing I will yield on right now... Is that I believe the Star Wars Universe may be more advanced because of the type of civilizations, and type of technology, and awarness that all species have in the star wars stories... Time, patience, and brain storming... Now... I dont believe ~yet~ that a single X-Wing, or even Boba Fett ship would be able to take out a Galaxy Class ship... Now as for a star destroyer... Dunno... These are things we are going to have to think out, and actually figure out! Do you have any ideas that might help?
-
I know it seems bizzare, but consider this:
In the TNG episode "Pegasus" there is a fairly large asteroid that has been scaled from footage to be around 5 km wide. It's rocky, porous, and hollow. The Enterprise carries a maximum load of 275 photon torpedoes. No need to go into the plot here, but Riker recommends destroying the asteroid, which, given that the objective clearly isn't to erase all trace of the asteroid having ever been there, more likely means breaking it up than it does vaporization. He clearly states:
"I recommend we destroy the asteroid. It would take almost all our photon torpedoes, but it would preclude any possibility of the Pegasus falling into Romulan hands."
Now, consider AOTC. Those bombs dropped by the Slave I that created an odd-looking planar explosion ripped through dozens or hundreds of asteroids, some more than a km wide and quite solid, without slowing down.
Now consider B5. Two 2 MT nuclear bombs killed a Minbari Warcruiser, and those were nowhere near direct hits.
The fact of the matter is, these three examples are about as consistent with the other data as one can reasonably expect from a fictional universe whose authors only care so much about tech continuity. You get your unexplained outlier type examples, and if you want you can build your own version of the universe around that, but I feel that there are reasonable upper and lower bounds we can put on weapons and armor that are consistent with what is most often on screen. In creating a mod or a work of fanfiction you inevitably create your own version of the universe, so we can make it any way we like - but why not strive for similarity?
-
As for balance...yeah, that's tough. On the other hand, a squad of TIEs versus an Akira and her fighter complement would not only be fun, but actually somewhat similar to the comparitively unrealistic combat we see in the X-Wing games, where a single X-Wing piloted by a patient human should have no problem against an AI Star Destroyer. Would be more difficult, actually. What happens when an ISD shows up? Well, the same thing that happens in Star Wars when an ISD shows up to anything short of a rebellious sector fleet: pretty lights, then it's all over. That's not hard to balance out, we just don't put an ISD against the Enterprise as a campaign mission. One must not forget the smaller craft from SW: corvettes and frigates should be plenty of fun. Besides, it isn't like we want to fly those, this is FreeSpace! We're here for the fighters!
-
However, the thought is we should have everything figured out actually see this happen IF we put it in as a mission... The fact is we might have an alternate mission line pending where you are in the campaign... Until the physics table is figured out... And hashed betwen at least a dozen people starting with Bolte... We should have our answers... Until then... Are there Versus that should be considered before we start hammering out all the stories? Me... I think the Galaxy Class would put up a good fight, but the ISD does have a heavy aresonal, and armour to boot... However.... Unless the are moving at light speed they tend move a some what slow (note: not as slow as freespace big ships)... I do agree that the Trek Universe has weaker hulls... However, the shields hold out pretty good, and they do have good speed and maneuvering considering the size of the ship.... IF... The Galaxy, or what ever trek ship used good tactics, and speed... They might have a chance... However, we will wait and see what that will be... To be honest... I dont know who would win, but I would like to find out! One of my many reasons for putting this little project together! :D
-
Ok this is how i think the ships would be like:
Star Trek
Weapons: -phasers have longer range than turbolasers and
beams from B5 and FS, they are moderatly effective
against hulls and shields, they can also be used
against fighters and bombers(of course in game ST
ships should have two versions of phasers one for the
capital ships and weaker for the fighters)
-photon torpedoes are moderatley effective against
shields and very effective against hulls, they have
limited homing capability
-quantum torpedoes are very effective aginst shields
extremly effective against hulls, they have no homing
capability
Defenses: -shields are very powerful
-hulls are weak(maybe with the SCP help a Hull
Integrity Field subsystem could be made after the
destruction of which hulls of ST ships become very
weak or simply make an event in mission that
reduces hull strength to 10% after that subsystem is
destroyed)
Manuverability: -excellent( I don't know if this would be possible
with FS Ai piloting skills)
(this has been written for Federation, other races in star trek shoud be scaled from this, so Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans and Dominion should have similar ship power, the Borg shoud be far more powerful)
Star Wars
Weapons: -turbolasers have high fire rate and altough weaker
than phasers and beams their number on each ship
makes them deadly, they are extremley effective
against hulls and have limited effectivenes against
shields, effectivenes against fighters and bombers is
excellent
-superlaser: single shot takes down any ship
Defenses: -shield are weak
-hulls are extremly strong(no dependancy on Hull
Integrity generator)
Manuverability: -very poor for Capital ships and excellent for
fighters, SW fighters are faster and more
manuverable than ST shuttles/fighters
Babylon5
Now this is a tough one. On one hand we have Younger Races which i don't think could have any chance against ST and SW ships and on the other hand we have First Ones which are extremly powerful. Howerver since this is a game i will try to throw in some balance.
Younger races:
Weapons: -beams are more effective against hulls than
phasers but are almost ineffective against shields
Defenses: -hulls are moderatley strong but there are no
shields
Manuverability: -poor for capital ships and very good for
fighters(between ST and SW fighters)
Minbari: between Younger races and First Ones
First Ones:
Weapons: -beams are stronger than phasers and are equally
effective aginst hull and shields
Defenses: -ultra strong hulls, I'm not sure if they have shields
Manuverability: -moderate for capital ships(except Shadows
which ships are more manuverable than even
ST), and excellent for fighters(even better
than SW fighter)
Here's a small table of some ships and their power:
firepower defenses manuverability
Star Destroyer 100 90 15
Galaxy 35 35 50
Sharlin 35 10 20
Borg cube 350 250 10
Super SD 1500 650 5
Battlecrab 1100 500 80
8472 1000 600 60
Death Star 100000 10000 1
-
Sounds like you have had an itch on this subject for a little bit! Glad to have your inputs! However, Bolte is on the right track over comparing using some physics that may help answer the catch all questions... This will take time! However, I agree with most of the stuff you threw out here! I do want to be fair to all, and prove some of this stuff using any resource we have! However, on the same note.. You sound like a good candidate for a beta teser/ chart comparisons person! Interested Ratri? Thanx again for your insights!
-
He he... Now that I read through my post again it does have a little "psyho" edge to it. What I tried to say is that real difference between universes should not be in power but in different technologies and approaches to combat. As for beta testing unfortunately I have very little free time on my hands to perform a very detailed testing.
-
That is what we are planning to do! It may takes a bit to get it right, but we will work it all out... However, this project could always use more insights... If you do find anything worth considering that you think we may over look... Let us know... Worse case scenario.. We already have it worked out! :)
-
I realize that what you put out there was more of an example than anything, but it reads a little bit like a rather pointless path to go down: randomness. If we just assign whatever sort of statistics and abilities we want to each side, we end up with fairly generic groups that only visually resemble the Empire, the Federation, etc. We might as well just be making up our own ships and weapons; it would at least be original.
I don't really give a damn who 'wins' or 'loses'. But saying, "let's make this weapon good against shields and long-range, and that one good against armor and rapid-fire, and offset that missile's increased power by making it dumbfire," makes for an entirely uninteresting mod.
I'm currently trying to read through what documentation I can find so that I can come up with rough ideas of how to model the combat of the various universes in this sort of environment. I'm somewhat busy with academics, so I'm afraid my productivity may not be the best.
-
Originally posted by Alan Bolte
Ah, a new hobby. I've been without one for too long. For reference, my e-mail is abolte (at) andrew.cmu.edu. I'm not really all that good at coming up with a lot of data myself, the way individuals like Mike Wong and Curtis Saxton are known for, but I've been following SWvST and a bit of B5 and BSG long enough to have some idea of where to start. My physics knowledge is a bit limited, I am only a first-year engineering student after all! However, I have far more knowledgable aquaintences, so I hope to get some help from them, whether or not I get anyone to help with the mod directly. I'll go make a post or two in another forum.
Okay, weapons sound simple enough to start with. Tell me if I've got this right: Beams do a certain dmg/s, and pulses have a simple dmg amount. Then you have the three factors v. subsystems, shields, and armor. I'm confused about one thing: you seem to have two numbers in the Damage line. What does that mean? Is it any relation to damage decrease with distance, or does FS2 have such a capability?
I'm guessing shields, armor and subsystems just have a simple hitpoint value.
What's Shutter? Is EMP just subsystem-only damage, or is it more complex?
I recall that there were some difficulties getting capship shielding to work - can I get an update on the current situation?
Speed/accel is going to be an interesting issue. The game is geared at low constant velocities in a 60 km cube, so...yeah. That'll take some thinking. Even weapon pulse velocities are affected by this dynamic.
And let's not even start to think about the complexities involved in translating the beam weaponry. FS beams go through FS shields, but you can't automatically say that that means phasers will go through FS shields or that a BFred will go through a ST ships' shielding. Then we have turbolasers, which have been conclusively determined to be lightspeed weapons which fire a visible pulse along the beam while warming up, and increase to full intensity moments later. Then there's phasers, which visibly don't travel at lightspeed. Which reminds me - determining what time period ST we want to use will be an issue - personally, I recommend the Dominion War era as my first instinct. Capabilities are fairly well known, fighters and pure warships are relatively common, and the Galaxies have all been refit so they don't explode on the first sign of danger.
I haven't played FS2 in a while, and my current comp couldn't run the SCP. Not sure it could even run FS2. Again - I know I've read stuff analyzing the FS universe's weapons, armor, etc. - could someone point out where I can find that so that I don't have to go hunting through threads and hyperlinks?
All could be fixed using the SCP and .tbl entries.
Currently there is an option where you can have beams pierce shields or not, and if the missions are designed carefully, you can have it such that the problem is never actually encountered.
-
Originally posted by Alan Bolte
I realize that what you put out there was more of an example than anything, but it reads a little bit like a rather pointless path to go down: randomness. If we just assign whatever sort of statistics and abilities we want to each side, we end up with fairly generic groups that only visually resemble the Empire, the Federation, etc. We might as well just be making up our own ships and weapons; it would at least be original.
I don't really give a damn who 'wins' or 'loses'. But saying, "let's make this weapon good against shields and long-range, and that one good against armor and rapid-fire, and offset that missile's increased power by making it dumbfire," makes for an entirely uninteresting mod.
I'm currently trying to read through what documentation I can find so that I can come up with rough ideas of how to model the combat of the various universes in this sort of environment. I'm somewhat busy with academics, so I'm afraid my productivity may not be the best.
All true. But some sort of consensus needs to be reached.
Fortunately, the .tbl entries are flexible, meaning we can use them to create realistic weapons for each universe. Lasers can be made to behave and look like beam turrets if you wish to use an afterburner trail after it, and Flak turrets do have their own use too (although I wish muzzleflash could be used on other types of guns too). Actual application of these weapons will depend on the story and the missions we are designing.
Perhaps it would be better to have several campaigns instead of one? We can create one campaign per universe, which is based on that PoV only. Each campaign will lead that universe upto a certain point, at which time we switch to a second campaign which leads a different universe upto the same point, describing the actions and perspectives behind each (not to mention give a lot of oppurtunity for nice space battles between each species) but all culminating to a point where all the races are present in a titanic and epic battle to save their own worlds against a common enemy!
(read: something that will make the battle of endor look like notihng)
Oh; if you have the bandwidth to spare, I'd suggest looking at alpha5.mpg over at the video archives on spacebattles.com, as it shows a nice and intense battle when it comes to B5 vs star trek.
-
Well.... As this story/ campaign reveals things... It will show what is going... The several campaigns, and stories will then eventually spin of what is started here... I agree everyone has their own PoV on these matters... However, we need a base line to fall back on... All we know right now is what we have seen in series, movies, and what we think it should be... After we have these charts, and a reference guide showing where and how we got this info can we then start tweaking to our liking... However, can you direct us to sold references? I am hitting the library/ book store today to help on this matter... Once all this is done then we can hash all this out when beta testing begins! :) Until then, lets give the subject a break for a bit... I do like the different aspect idea for the campaign... I laid out the time line in which I have everything at the beginning... I also have certain plots that I would like to see in this as well... However, we need a good strong base story line with a dozen or so little plots going on, and we also need alternate story lines for objectives that are not satisfied (big if/then ideas).... From the stories we can base the missions off of, and then tactition them to become truely awsome missions... With the missions though comes the discussion of weapon, shield, armour, and enginw tech questions... Thus, with all good things takes a bit of time, and love! :D Lets see what stories we can muster up from the time line I gave earlier... Then once the stories (alternates too) are done... We all take a chance to read them... Brain storm a bit more, tweak them, and then move on to the mission making... Hopefully by then... The tech chart will be near a complete stage where can get basic missions underway... Hmmmm.... I think we have a game plan! Anyone else have any thoughts on this? :)
-
this sounds quite interesting and if i can help in anyway i can i will, but i cant model or anything, mabe my fredding skills may be of use but i dont know what opinions people have of it, ask and you shall recieve.
-
We need fredders, beta testers, story writers, tactitioners (mission tweakers), and tech chart people! Your in if you would like to start hammering away at this! Omin and myself are the only modellers we have at this time, but more will follow... Just need to get this thing started! I have a felling once it is started I dont think we will be able to stop it! LOL!
-
I can help with the .tbl entry and overall mission outlines. All you need to do is give a story, your weapons/ships requirements and that's it.
Oh, and another reason i was suggesting seperate campaign is for logistical reasons. We do not have enough ship.tbl entries to fit in everything into a single campaign. Putting in the federation and SW universe ships alone will fill it up, if you want to keep enough FS2 ships to count. If you want to include B5 or any other universe you're gonna get problems for sure.
However, this could be fixed if we had something similar to an inferno build, but then you risk not being up-to-date with all the latest SCP features, including the stuff required to run the hi-poly ships effectively. However, that I believe, is your call.
-
Or... Here is a thought.... Make equavalent ships... And use the swap model options... Where there is a will there is a way... We just have to make it where there are equal amount of turrets for ships of equal sizes, and from the same universe... So instead of naming the ship its actual name... We just use ST-Medium-Ship, or SW-Sup-Cap... Now... We have unlimited options! And when SCP finally fixes that grey area... We go from there!
-
Originally posted by stithe2000
Or... Here is a thought.... Make equavalent ships... And use the swap model options... Where there is a will there is a way... We just have to make it where there are equal amount of turrets for ships of equal sizes, and from the same universe... So instead of naming the ship its actual name... We just use ST-Medium-Ship, or SW-Sup-Cap... Now... We have unlimited options! And when SCP finally fixes that grey area... We go from there!
Not possible. Changing models only changes the models, not the weapons or any other data, including speed and movement and you'll end up having B5 ships fire trek phasers. For that you require change-ship-class, which again takes all the data from the table files.
-
Cant knock it until you try it. The weapons factor in the game can be changed in fred... The speed can be changed in fred... If we want to make this work, we have to think outside the box... Besides that... We have to keep positve, and try to be inventive... The SCP team will eventually catch up, and break all the areas that they are stuck on right now... Such as table entry limits, among the several other dozen little things we want to see....
-
Weapons:
To do:
general summary -WIP
observed power/energy/damage, other performance numbers
model to be used in FS2 engine
----------
Star Trek:
phaser:
beam or pulse configurations
disruptor:
beam or pulse configurations
weapon most commonly used by Starfleet's enemies
indications point to a general inferiority to phasers
photon torpedo:
possess variable yields, most likely for the purpose of antimatter conservation
quantum torpedo:
little indication that they are much more than a photorp set to 'blue'
generally more powerful than a photorp
phased-polaron beam:
Dominion weapon which pierces certain shield types, such as those mounted
by the Federation at the beginning of the war
Star Wars:
particle beam:
blaster:
details largely unknown
just make it a weak, low range laser for simplicity
laser:
not actually a laser
may produce ionization effect, see ion cannon
technically a lightspeed weapon (not photons, some other particle)
ramp-up time and visible bolt make a lower-speed bolt weapon a
reasonable model at short ranges
damage decreases slightly with range
turbolaser:
same as laser, but longer range/less damage decrease with range
bulkier, more power comsuming than a laser
ion cannon:
possibly a bit slow
even very heavy weapons do little to no damage to armor
very effective at burning out equiv-tech computerized systems
some unsubstantiated claims of equiv-tech shield piercing
missile:
concussion missile:
variety of sizes, yields, performance
typically armor piercing, with omnidirectional blast
proton torpedo:
variety of sizes, yields, performance
may be omnidirectional or directed blast
bombs (various):
lack main propulsion, but may have guidance thrusters
wide variety of yields
Babylon 5:
laser:
combination particle beam/xaser
commonly used by younger races, such as the EA and Narn
the minbari use 'fusion lasers' which are probably just a more powerful variation
particle beam:
wide variety, many of which are undefined
particle pulse weaponry:
interceptors:
specialized cannons capable of disrupting equiv-tech pulse, missile,
and beam (?) weapons fire mid-flight
effective against equiv-tech starfighters
offensive cannon:
tend to fire very slow-moving pulses in comparison to beam weaponry
that these weapons are used at all almost certainly indicate that they
are more powerful than comparable beam weapons available to a
given military
among the minbari, the shadows, and vorlons, only shadow small craft
use pulse weapons
missiles:
most are slow enough that they are not heavily relied upon
both starfighter-mounted and capital-grade weapons are used
the younger races generally prefer missile weapons against ground targets
smaller weapons are almost certainly conventional
firepower of larger missiles?
minbari capship missiles are known to use 20 MT warheads
tactical nuclear devices:
in use by the younger races, such as the EA and Narn, on special occasions
generally just warheads, seemingly more likely to be used as bombs than mounted
on missiles
seem to be in the 1-1000 MT range generally, with a 500 MT device considered
very powerful by the younger races
-
Cool! Have you gotten an idea of nominal yield on them yet?
-
Some I can do off the top of my head, but most require at least confirmation, and some will need fairly thorough research. Mostly I want to get a list up first of what weapons will be used. Please feel free to suggest anything I might have missed; that's easier than trying to think of it myself.
-
Originally posted by stithe2000
Cant knock it until you try it. The weapons factor in the game can be changed in fred... The speed can be changed in fred... If we want to make this work, we have to think outside the box... Besides that... We have to keep positve, and try to be inventive... The SCP team will eventually catch up, and break all the areas that they are stuck on right now... Such as table entry limits, among the several other dozen little things we want to see....
Yeah, utilizing several more SexPs in the process. we DO have a limit on SexP nodes you know, along with problems with complexity (FS2 doesnt like that much stuff, especially in BoE missions).
But as you said, it can all be worked around, so not much of an issue. its something we'll beat when we get to it.
-
:D
-
Hey guys has there been one forum/thread or website picked out for the Universes project (to get organized).
I've gone through my "all mod" folder and boy what a mess. IF you want I'll list what ship(and origin) I have in it. These will be seperate from Robotech or Trek ships slated for the mods I am working on (ie ships available but not used will be listed under Trek ALL, my project will be Trek MOD. I've already started seperating .pof by universe., categories are Wars, Trek, B5, Custom, BSG, Other. Don't know if you were planning on including anime ships? I stick those under other (like harlock,gundam) How about the Robotech mod?)
L8tr!
-
I have a temporary area set aside for the website... However, HLP will not support until we have more for them to see... I showed them pix, and that was not enough for them... I have heard from a couple of people that this is not uncommon... For now... We just hammer away where we can! Will be doing the site in Flash 5... That way we can go all out with graphics interaction! More on this later!
-
ok.... This week I am going to be working on the site... Hopefully it will be up soon... How are things going? Are there any new ideas? :)
-
OK! It is official.... I have our own private forums up, and running! www.stithe.com... Lets kick this thing off! :)
-
Dude, bad link. You wanted http://www.stithe.com
Sorry I haven't done more, I'm not doing so well in school at the moment.
-
www.stithe.com guess it would help to get all the periods away from it!!! hehehe! sorry!
-
:lol:
-
I updated your membership on there... you should see the internal forum now!
-
Gah, I forgot to e-mail myself my file, and it'll be days before I'm back in my dorm room. And me with all this free time on my hands. Guess I'll make do.
-
is this mod out yet? :D
-
not yet... but hopefully soon... you can keep track of the progress in the Universes forums at www.stithe.com .... have fun!
-
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Wachabe-Progress.jpg)
The Picture is huge, so here is the link!
The new GTVA Wachabe... Sporting Meson Projectile system, Maxim Close in Weapon System, and anti-matter beams.... (http://stithe.bobzilla.us/core/html/emoticons/Smiley-Cool.gif)
-
Why did you post this in the Star Wars forum?
-
Well... Not everyone checks the Universes forums... So... Why not?
Besides before the Universes forums this was first...
-
Looks like real terran-vasudan dessing ship:nod:
I had only two thing to say:
-Main big turrets need smoth work becouse they dont match to ship huul
- Do someting with nose in this version it's horble:ick:
-
Nope.... There is a reason for the design... Give time, and wait and see! Besides... It is already at 8k vertices/poly count!
-
If it is with turrets you can easy add 200-300 polys too turrets it does't make bigg difrents:nod:
-
:) Thanx... However, I am trying to achieve a certain look and feel with the model, but I may change the nose of the ship slightly... I kept that design from my original design of the ship, but now that it is pretty much redesigned I might redo some features in that area... Give it a chance, and I might even say... "hmmm... I might want to change those!" It will not be too hard to change it once I am done with her!
-
I just thought the general freespace modding forum would get more attention than this out-of-the way thread.
Anyhow, I don't have any complaints about the positioning of the nose fighter bay, if that's what it is, but I think the nose could use more detail. The walls are too thin, is my major complaint. Paper-thin armor does not a safe fighter bay make.
I like the dichtomy between the smooth shape and the huge, blocky turrets. Plus, you've got a lot of elements one sees on the newer GTVA capships that you don't see from other universes or older stuff like the Orion. I like that. Surface seems to be excessively bumpy in some places, though. Maybe you could smooth it out a bit. Also, what's with the massive pods? Some kind of kick-ass oversized sensor system? I think they're kinda ugly, if you don't have some specific need for them.
About the turrets, the two ventral aftmost guns are in totally unbelievable positions. Any turret requires substantial room in the hull below it for related components. Since these are projectile-launchers based vaguely on those from a 1940s battleship, they should probably have no less than three times the volume of the turret in dedicated space below them, if not four or five. The turrets I specified have almost nothing but engine underneath them. The forwardmost dorsal turret is debatable.
-
actually the front nose I am going to smooth over... the extended pod towers are suppose to be a directional array system used to direct the heaviest beam system... The beam system I explain is also unstable in some aspects, so instead of having the ship go when the beam system decides to go, it can be jettisoned away from the ship to minimize a total loss of the ship... And I also wanted a bit of a rough feel, for it is a battleship, plus a blending of all races in the FS2 universe.... The roughness kinda shows a little instability between all aspects of technology... As for the nose... After a lot of thought... Yep... going to smooth her out, and make her similar to the deimos front... as for the fighter bays... she has 2 major bays, and a landing bay for escaping ships, or specialized ships (such as the Millenium Falcon)! More on this later! Thanx for the inputs! And Alan... Good point... I will make a new thread in the main area in the near future!!
-
LOL! You replied before I finished my edit.
-
Just hit the I believe button, and trust me that they integrated the tech! It is in the future... It may be a turret system, but that is why I made the engines in those areas longer look at the pic... :) I thought about that too!
-
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Wachabe-Ingame.jpg) Very first successful screen shot of the new GTVA Wachabe! B)
-
Those texs actually look pretty cool, but They make the ship look small. Which could yet be good (I like smal ships after all :)).
-
She is about twice the size of the Deimos... Meant to be like the classical WWII ships purpose for the carrier class ships, and other ships that do not have enough fire power to cover themselves... The new colossus ship will look similiar, but will be more of a mobile command center/ carrier...
-
The GTVA Wachabe Battleship in action... LOD0 beta will be released soon for testing!
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Wachabe-Action00.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Wachabe-Action01.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Wachabe-Action02.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Wachabe-Action03.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/raurther/Wachabe-Action04.jpg)
She now has 47 total turrets, and has a complete custom shield that is 2.5k poly.... She sports the Meson Projectile System, Maxim CIWS, Heavy Flak, AAAF beams, BGreen Beams, and TerSlash... She is a very balanced ship... She still has a few minor issues that still need to be hammered out geometry wise, but for the most part she is playable. More on her as things develope!
-
I cans see chunks of the Hades in there. The colour sceme is pretty cool though.
I think 47 turrets may be too many though. And post a link in the Freespace Modding Forum.
-
The front and the towers were modelled after the hades, but the rest took awhile to design to give a blend between all races... However, after a lot of tweaking, the front was also remodelled to give a closer look to the deimos.... However, since it is a little bit over half the size of the Colossus which had 63 turrets, and the Hecate Destroyer had 27 turrets... 47 is a good round number... Still tweaking her, and she will be out for public release hopefully within the next month after I finish with the other LODs and the debris aspect.... More as it developes...
Before I run off though, the Universes mod in which is in progress, is slowly but surely starting to come together... Could go faster if we had more help... Anyway, the aspect of the game is to bring to light more tactically sound ships... The Wachabe is design in such a way to mimic the WWII ships purposes... The universes mod will also have a Carrier class ship (which may be the Colossus, ideas are still being looked at) With more and more features being added to the SCP projects progress, the more that can be added to the mods....
There is a lot more, and will tell all a bit later!