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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: an0n on November 05, 2004, 02:44:11 pm

Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: an0n on November 05, 2004, 02:44:11 pm
It's bound to happen sooner or later and it's better for me to grab fame and glory for starting it and keeping it all together than for 40 people to post bits and pieces all over the place for the next 6 months.

So, I open with:

E-Voting Machines Change Votes (http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/11/02/HNevoteglitch_1.html)

4,531 E-Votes Lost In North Carolina (http://www.wnct.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WNCT/MGArticle/NCT_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031778939157&path=)

37 E-Votes Lost In Florida (http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/10083861.htm)

245 E-Votes Lost In Florida (http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/23/Hillsborough/Lost_votes_should_ous.shtml)

Sticky?
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Rictor on November 05, 2004, 02:50:39 pm
Interesting. Not really huge numbers, not enough to tip the election (based on the current info available) and I admit that it could just be machine error, but the other possibility is equally, if not more, probable.

I for one say that something as important as voting, the very foundation of democracy, can not be privatized, and should be handled by the government, with compete transparency all the way through.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Liberator on November 05, 2004, 03:56:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I for one say that something as important as voting, the very foundation of democracy, can not be privatized, and should be handled by the government, with compete transparency all the way through.


Now that I agree with.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: MatthewPapa on November 05, 2004, 03:58:54 pm
I bet more votes were lost with the punch ballot than the electronic one.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Grey Wolf on November 05, 2004, 04:02:41 pm
My question is, why aren't the just sticking with the lever machines?
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on November 05, 2004, 04:07:07 pm
Or putting a cross on a piece of paper?
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: an0n on November 05, 2004, 04:10:45 pm
Lever machines need counting.

Counting requires people.

People are untrustworthy bastards.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Rictor on November 05, 2004, 04:18:29 pm
Can't we just use the "studio audience method". Whichever sides cheers the loudest, wins.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on November 05, 2004, 04:21:52 pm
Bush has all the tub-thumpers on his side though...
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Knight Templar on November 05, 2004, 04:33:20 pm
What about filling in circles with #2 pencils? You know, like standardized testing.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Liberator on November 05, 2004, 04:48:15 pm
That's what they did where I voted.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Kazan on November 05, 2004, 04:54:23 pm
heh.. that's nothing an0n

how about having 4258 Bush - 260 Kerry in a precint with only 638 voters

http://www.democrats08.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Zarax on November 05, 2004, 04:59:00 pm
You always find ways to make things more complicated...
In Italy we use pencil and hand count the votes, with people from all major parties to check everything...
You can't mess nothing this way, it takes a night and there are no polemics.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Kazan on November 05, 2004, 05:05:01 pm
there IS a way to make reliable electronic voting systems (with paper backup) - but everyone as unconscionably refused to make them
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: magatsu1 on November 05, 2004, 05:37:28 pm
I reckon Kerry and Bush should thumb wrestle for the job. No manifestos or to-be-broken-promises, just the wrestlin'.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Roanoke on November 05, 2004, 05:38:51 pm
^_^
oh crap, I forgot I'd shuffled accounts!! :nervous:
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Goober5000 on November 05, 2004, 05:59:59 pm
:lol: :ha:  magatsu1 lives again!
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Kamikaze on November 05, 2004, 06:00:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Lever machines need counting.

Counting requires people.

People are untrustworthy bastards.


At least paper ballots leaves a paper trail and solid physical evidence of what a voter decided on. If the magic ballot machine files "Bush" away when the voter pushed "Kerry" (or vice versa) there's no way to tell that the machine's records are screwed.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Angel Warlord on November 05, 2004, 07:25:07 pm
Well at least there was no litigation, no recounts, and the whole thing was over nice and quick. Lets all concede that impeachment proceedings to get rid of him will begin all to soon.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on November 05, 2004, 07:46:46 pm
One can only hope...
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Mongoose on November 05, 2004, 08:36:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Angel Warlord
Well at least there was no litigation, no recounts, and the whole thing was over nice and quick. Lets all concede that impeachment proceedings to get rid of him will begin all to soon.

Congratulations, we have yet another sore loser!  Learn to live with it, liberals:  Bush is here for four more years.  Run and hide, if you can!
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on November 05, 2004, 08:42:59 pm
I think elections and wars should be fought over a game of Unreal Tournament Deathmatches.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: an0n on November 05, 2004, 08:53:45 pm
Nah, they should use that Pon Farr thing with the big sticks.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on November 05, 2004, 09:10:46 pm
(http://img49.exs.cx/img49/3005/CNN-Election-Winner.jpg)
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Lightspeed on November 05, 2004, 09:14:41 pm
Well, what could one expect?

Once a cheater, always a cheater.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on November 05, 2004, 10:05:53 pm
Optimus Prime for president, ass hole.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Taristin on November 05, 2004, 10:26:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Optimus Prime for president, ass hole.


BAN!
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Rictor on November 05, 2004, 10:44:39 pm
Optimus Prime ("http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=3828") is serving in Iraq right now, but if he makes it back in one piece, why not.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Bobboau on November 05, 2004, 11:00:19 pm
he's back (http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=7555)
suck about why though, although it is sort of ironic with the house and what his job is.
Title: WOW
Post by: Getter Robo G on November 05, 2004, 11:08:48 pm
You can actually get your name legally changed to a toy?

   Look, I may be a 34yo super-nerd  but that is just WAY over the top!

  Especially for a father of four! :lol:  Imagine his poor kids. My dad can beat up Optimus Prime! :drevil:

  Anyway I ponder making all future elections (no matter what office) be like Ultimate Fighting Championship! You vote for teh party representatives or write-ins (like our bud Optimus) and then they all duke it out UFC style with only ONE rule. First one to tap out loses (plus you CAN kick him/her in the wee wee!) I remember watching KIMO punch this guy he had pined like 11 times in the Johnson and the  dude fianlly tapped out (OUCH!)

  Now THAT's entertainment!  :lol:
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: IceFire on November 05, 2004, 11:20:49 pm
Really guys...the local elections around here use the HB pencil, a piece of paper, and a light/dark sensor computer thingyamagigy.  It works...it works well.  They do this for local, provinicial, and federal.  The results are out by the end of the night :)
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on November 05, 2004, 11:24:39 pm
I think they are busy making excuses for Bush's re-election...
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Ace on November 06, 2004, 01:14:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
I think they are busy making excuses for Bush's re-election...


No excuse is necessary. People are stupid and imperfect. NOMAD will sterilize imperfection. *bzzzt*
Title: Re: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: redmenace on November 06, 2004, 01:18:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
E-Voting Machines Change Votes (http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/11/02/HNevoteglitch_1.html)

eh, I wish I knew the exact numbers from these mistakes.

Quote

4,531 E-Votes Lost In North Carolina (http://www.wnct.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WNCT/MGArticle/NCT_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031778939157&path=)

hmm well considering this is new technology. But the company should be help liable and sued. I am sure that would fit under some tort or federal law.

Quote

37 E-Votes Lost In Florida (http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/10083861.htm)

This is a new technology, and don't take this the wrong way, but those old people that work the polls are not exactly tech savy. No disrespect towards them.

Quote

245 E-Votes Lost In Florida (http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/23/Hillsborough/Lost_votes_should_ous.shtml)

This has absolutly nothing to do with bush. Why is it in a thread that says The Big, Bad, "Look! He[bush] Cheated Again!" Thread?

Quote

heh.. that's nothing an0n

how about having 4258 Bush - 260 Kerry in a precint with only 638 voters

http://www.democrats08.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58

This as the AP piece said would have been caught before the election is certified.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041106/D8661OA80.html

Quote
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/state/10103910.htm
Posted on Fri, Nov. 05, 2004
 
 
 


Computer error at voting machine gives Bush 3,893 extra votes

Associated Press


COLUMBUS, Ohio - A computer error with a voting machine cartridge gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in a Gahanna precinct.

Franklin County's unofficial results gave Bush 4,258 votes to Democratic challenger John Kerry's 260 votes in Precinct 1B. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.

Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, said Bush received 365 votes there. The other 13 voters who cast ballots either voted for other candidates or did not vote for president.

Damschroder said he received some calls Thursday from people who saw the error when reading the list of poll results on the election board's Web site.

He said the error would have been discovered when the official canvass for the election is performed later this month.

Damschroder said after Precinct 1B closed, a cartridge from one of three voting machines at the polling place generated a faulty number at a computerized reading station.

The reader also recorded zero votes in a county commissioner race.

Damschroder said the cartridge was retested Thursday and there were no problems. He couldn't explain why the computer reader malfunctioned.

Workers checked the cartridge against memory banks in the voting machine Thursday and each showed that 115 people voted for Bush on that machine. With the other machines, the total for Bush in the precinct added up to 365 votes.

Information from: The Columbus Dispatch


Overall I think the new electronic voting system is a good idea. The technology however need to be worked on and firm, clear procedures developed and set. I think this would take care of the problem.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Liberator on November 06, 2004, 01:20:33 am
But NOMAD was created by humans, so NOMAD is imperfect.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 06, 2004, 01:32:23 am
Ah...the grand tradition of talking computers into killing themselves.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: karajorma on November 06, 2004, 04:08:58 am
What I want to know is why the software for these voting machines isn't open source!

Sounds like a perfect way to check that no cheating is going on.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on November 06, 2004, 09:39:07 am
Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r
Ah...the grand tradition of talking computers into killing themselves.


Asimovs Caliban. You;ll like it.
Title: The Big, Bad, "Look! He Cheated Again!" Thread
Post by: Lightspeed on November 06, 2004, 12:18:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
What I want to know is why the software for these voting machines isn't open source!

Sounds like a perfect way to check that no cheating is going on.


The problem is, that there is cheating going on. Come on, which company wouldn't want to make some extra profit? :rolleyes: