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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: vyper on November 09, 2004, 01:46:31 pm

Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: vyper on November 09, 2004, 01:46:31 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3997151.stm

[q]Iran is now able to make large numbers of its medium-range Shahab-3 ballistic missile, Iranian Defence Minister Ali Shamkhani says.

He said Iran had mastered the technology and there were no limits on the volume of production.

The missile was recently upgraded to increase its range to 2,000km (1,250 miles), making it capable of travelling beyond Iran's borders.
[/q]

Heh, no **** guys.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: ionia23 on November 09, 2004, 02:22:26 pm
I don't see what the big hoo-ha is.  If Iran wants to build deterrences, be my guest.  They're certainly entitled to.

Though deterrences from what....
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Gank on November 09, 2004, 02:24:51 pm
Israeli strikes on its nuclear power plants.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: ionia23 on November 09, 2004, 02:25:36 pm
I'm sincerely hoping they wouldn't be that stupid.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Rictor on November 09, 2004, 02:35:21 pm
Sure they are. Its only a matter of time.

If anyone in the world needs detterence right now, its Iran.
US soldiers  on the eastern border, Afghanistan, US soldiers on the western border, Iraq, and Israeli jets within spitting distance. I dare anyone not to be paranoid in that type of situtation, especially since open threats are issuing forth from Washington almost on a daily basis.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Gank on November 09, 2004, 02:44:07 pm
Who, Israel? Course they would. your newly elected president is on the record as saying he wont tolerate a nuclear armed Iran either.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-11-04-iran-usat_x.htm
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: ionia23 on November 09, 2004, 03:03:00 pm
Well, my newly elected president (whom i didn't vote for) is most definately a blowhard, but he's got enough advisors smart enough to know that if Iran arms itself with nukes a conflict would be, well, armageddon.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Rictor on November 09, 2004, 03:12:04 pm
No, if iran arms itself with nukes, there would be no conflict. Thats the whole point. Say what you will about the religious fundies in Israel, Iran and America, but none of them are going to start a war between two nuclear powers.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Grey Wolf on November 09, 2004, 03:19:08 pm
That would be three nuclear powers. Israel, Iran, and the US.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Ghostavo on November 09, 2004, 03:26:46 pm
Least hope we live to see if that's true :p
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Grey Wolf on November 09, 2004, 03:33:58 pm
Everyone in the world except Israel and the US government acknowledges that they ahve nuclear weaponry.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: ionia23 on November 09, 2004, 03:39:21 pm
who, Iran?
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Rictor on November 09, 2004, 03:43:19 pm
No, I think he meant they as in the uS and Israel not ackowledging that they, again US and Israel, have nukes. Which isn't quite true. The US has made no attempts to hide it, I mean they've had them for decades, and thousaands at that. But all thats known of Israel's arsenal is what Mordechai Vanunu leaked 20 years ago, and spent the better part of two decades in jail for. Though its an open secret by now..
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Grey Wolf on November 09, 2004, 03:43:55 pm
No, Israel.

EDIT: Appears Rictor beat me to it. As a note, I specifically meant Israel, as everyone knows that the U.S. has nuclear weaponry, and it's an openly acknowledge fact.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: MatthewPapa on November 09, 2004, 04:02:31 pm
I heard that Israel has even more Nukes than the USA now. I wouldnt at all be surprised if they just have a "kill everything that lives button" that they can press in case of an emergency. I also heard that they are stored in various places underground.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Bobboau on November 09, 2004, 04:05:50 pm
what else have you 'heard' ?
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Rictor on November 09, 2004, 04:06:25 pm
I very much doubt they have more tha the US. A few hundred maybe, but the US has tens of thousands.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: aldo_14 on November 09, 2004, 05:28:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by MatthewPapa
I heard that Israel has even more Nukes than the USA now. I wouldnt at all be surprised if they just have a "kill everything that lives button" that they can press in case of an emergency. I also heard that they are stored in various places underground.


I doubt it.  They don't need that many.  Hell, they only need one - the world and is dog knows Israel has nukes, but not how many.  So long as Israel can convince the Arab world that any war would lead to MAD, they're pretty much safe.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Roanoke on November 09, 2004, 05:36:48 pm
anyone else think we're in a worse situation than the Cold War ?
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Clave on November 09, 2004, 05:38:15 pm
http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/

A few hundred warheads compared to a few thousand in the US....

Not that it matters - even half a dozen nukes exploding will have serious implications for the entire planet.  You can't just nuke a country and expect the dust to stay in one place.  To use a volcano comparison, the dust from Krakatoa in the Indian Ocean travelled as far as New York.  If you throw radioactive material high enough into the atmosphere, it will circle the entire globe - then everyone gets to share a stupid death....
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Rictor on November 09, 2004, 05:57:40 pm
tell that to Bush who's doing his best to provoke a nuclear confrontation.

Traditionally, the way to deter people from seeking to develop nuclear weapons has been to assure them that you will not attack them, not the ****ing opposite.

As I said, Iran is pinned on the Est and West by US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Israel right in the neighborhood and more than willing to throw down. Every sane person on earth would be seeking a nuclear detterent in that situtation.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: aldo_14 on November 09, 2004, 06:02:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Clave
http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/

A few hundred warheads compared to a few thousand in the US....

Not that it matters - even half a dozen nukes exploding will have serious implications for the entire planet.  You can't just nuke a country and expect the dust to stay in one place.  To use a volcano comparison, the dust from Krakatoa in the Indian Ocean travelled as far as New York.  If you throw radioactive material high enough into the atmosphere, it will circle the entire globe - then everyone gets to share a stupid death....


:nod:

Incidentally, why in the hell the UK & France would choose to have 185 & 350 nukes respectively is beyond me.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: 01010 on November 09, 2004, 06:20:32 pm
184 isn't enough and 186 is overkill.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Rictor on November 09, 2004, 07:18:39 pm
Oooh, those cheese eating surrender monkeys have you totally outclassed when it comes to nukes. And here I though you were a world power.

:p :p
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: aldo_14 on November 09, 2004, 07:20:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Oooh, those cheese eating surrender monkeys have you totally outclassed when it comes to nukes. And here I though you were a world power.

:p :p


Guess that's why we're always arse-kissing the Americans, then.........
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Kosh on November 09, 2004, 07:47:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ionia23
I don't see what the big hoo-ha is.  If Iran wants to build deterrences, be my guest.  They're certainly entitled to.

Though deterrences from what....



In their view, US imperialism.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Rictor on November 09, 2004, 08:32:59 pm
How is it "in their view".
How many countries are actively under occupation? Two, just in the Middle East, several more worldwide. US military bases all over the Persian Gulf.

The US percieved Iraq, on the other side of the world and with no offensive capability or will, as a present and clear threat, while Iran is supposed to ignore the openly hostile military forces station all alongs its borders?

C'mon, thats absurd.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: jdjtcagle on November 09, 2004, 08:41:47 pm
Rictor check your PMs :)
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Corsair on November 09, 2004, 09:04:30 pm
"In summary I still believe that the development of the H-bomb is a calamity. I still believe that it was necessary to make a pause before the decision and to consider this irrevocable step most carefully. I still believe that the possibility of an agreement with Russia not to develop the bomb should have been explored. But once the decision was made to go ahead with the program, and once there was a sound technical program, I cooperated with it to the best of my ability. I did and still do this because it seems to me that once one is engaged in a race, on clearly must endeavor to win it. But one can try to forestall the race itself."
- Hans Bethe, on the construction of the hydrogen bomb, 1954.

I agree with him.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Rictor on November 09, 2004, 09:48:40 pm
Actually, there is some historical evidence that Stalin tried to cut a deal to abandon the A bomb project, in return for the West decreasing the military build-up on the German border, but I don't know how authetic that info is.

And clearly, no one side won, like the guy predicted, rather bother sides agreed to move towards disarmament (excluding the two ass-hats in charge of the US and Russia at the moment). No one side can win a nuclear war, thats the whole point of MAD.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: karajorma on November 11, 2004, 03:00:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Oooh, those cheese eating surrender monkeys have you totally outclassed when it comes to nukes. And here I though you were a world power.

:p :p


They probably have more cause as recently as 10 years ago they still needed to check they worked. For all we know until then all a french nuke did was hit the ground and shout "zut alors!" loudly. :p
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: vyper on November 11, 2004, 03:19:13 pm
[q]until then all a french nuke did was hit the ground and shout "zut alors!" loudly. [/q]

:lol:
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Gank on November 11, 2004, 10:39:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
They probably have more cause as recently as 10 years ago they still needed to check they worked. For all we know until then all a french nuke did was hit the ground and shout "zut alors!" loudly. :p


Whereas the UK only had to check theirs 12 years ago?
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Clave on November 12, 2004, 12:31:43 am
Quantities of warheads are not 'that' important, what matters is delivery systems, and the combination of a nuclear-powered sub with high speed multi-warhead missiles pretty much guarantees success....

Anyway, I thought Iran was a 'friend' to the West, or was that Iraq? or Afghanistan? ah well, times change...
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: Black Wolf on November 12, 2004, 02:05:07 am
Iran was, under the Shah, who's since been booted and had islamic law put in place.
Title: Let the insinuation and vague threats begin!
Post by: karajorma on November 12, 2004, 12:13:14 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Gank
Whereas the UK only had to check theirs 12 years ago?


13 actually :p

I assume you'd noticed that despite having less than double the number of nukes they needed 4 times the tests to confirm that they work. :p