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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: ChronoReverse on November 17, 2004, 04:30:46 pm

Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: ChronoReverse on November 17, 2004, 04:30:46 pm
Russia plans to upgrade their nukes (http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/11/17/russia-missiles-041117.html)


I certainly feel re-assured by this.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Terminator on November 17, 2004, 04:32:57 pm
its an endless cycle. we're human. we like to make things bigger, better, and more powerful.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Flipside on November 17, 2004, 04:35:03 pm
They can plan to upgrade their stockpile, but the question is at the moment, can they afford to?
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Corsair on November 17, 2004, 04:36:30 pm
*BOOM*
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Carl on November 17, 2004, 04:43:25 pm
So? the US keeps upgrading their nukes too. if not, then in WWIII we'll have a bunch of cumbersome soviet era missiles that are past their experation date.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Terminator on November 17, 2004, 05:05:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
They can plan to upgrade their stockpile, but the question is at the moment, can they afford to?


Well if Bush pulls off a Reagan then they probably won't.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: vyper on November 17, 2004, 05:10:29 pm
You build star wars, they build more nukes.

Yay.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Rictor on November 17, 2004, 06:06:56 pm
Oh boy! We're going to banktrupt the evil Soviets again.

...oh wait.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Grey Wolf on November 17, 2004, 07:51:59 pm
Well, at the moment I'm just waiting until we start talking about Comrade Putin from the Kremlin paying a visit to Stalingrad.....
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Corsair on November 17, 2004, 09:05:21 pm
For the Rodina!
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: IceFire on November 17, 2004, 09:32:13 pm
Super...more nukes.

I wonder if they are just recycling the warheads and putting them in newer missiles. I think that may be what they are doing...because really, they don't need to be bigger.

Its probably a balance of power issue...the US has a shield, we have a better missile.  End result = same.  We should just go back to sticks and stones.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Rictor on November 17, 2004, 09:44:06 pm
No, the result is not the same. Several hundred billion will have been spent, to maintain the status quo. Money that could have gone to, oh I don't know, maybe feeding the hungry? Giving little African kids with AIDS their medicine?

Yeah, crazy, I know.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Ford Prefect on November 17, 2004, 10:22:52 pm
Sometimes I get so tired of the endless dick size contest that is life in this world.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Liberator on November 17, 2004, 10:59:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair
*BOOM*

no, no....
[SIZE=10]kraka-[/SIZE] [SIZE=40]DOOOOOOOOOOOOM[/SIZE]
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Shrike on November 18, 2004, 12:51:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
No, the result is not the same. Several hundred billion will have been spent, to maintain the status quo. Money that could have gone to, oh I don't know, maybe feeding the hungry? Giving little African kids with AIDS their medicine?

Yeah, crazy, I know.
You know, it would help if many of those in positions of power in Africa actually cared about doing so... we (as in 'The West') cannot help those in Africa effectively if so many African leaders do not want to be helped.  Throwing money at the problem would accomplish nothing more than enrich the warlords and militias even more while making incidentally helping some poor farmers be educated.  There are leaders who refuse to allow western vaccines due to paranoia.  How can you operate effectively in that kind of climate?

Principles are good, but the cold hard facts is that Africa is, to overgeneralize, a big fat mess.  This also ignores the cold hard economic facts about missile defense vs trying to feed Africa - missile development pumps a lot of money into the aerospace and tech sectors, feeding africa just throws money 'away' - particularly given how much of it will go to those who we least want it to reach.
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Omniscaper on November 18, 2004, 12:57:10 am
Heres a hilarious animation of the future for our planet
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/endofworld.html

Just watch this to learn the proper way to react to this situation:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fwordflash.html
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: Rictor on November 18, 2004, 01:10:22 am
Shrike: well, the way I see it, if you (and I mean you as in the general you) are interested in helping someone, you will do so whether or not anyone supports you, or whether or not anyone else is helping.

The West is not blameless for the economic problems present in Africa. Sure, the local leaders are seldom any better, but one party does not escape blame because another is also guilty.

The thing is, as far as I know,most of the money thats going to Africa is going to pay for the immediate necessities, not to build a long-term sustainable solutions, to break the dependency. But then, dependency keeps the powerless firmly underfoot, so I'm not too sure that those in power are interested in that.

Yeah, its a complicated situation, and one I don't claim to know much, if anything, about. But what I meant was that the money, instead of lining the pockets of the weapons indusrty to produce products that will never be used, or that we hope will never be used, the money could go to help someone, I just threw out Africa as an example..
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: aldo_14 on November 18, 2004, 03:11:52 am
Russia should spend the money on sorting out rebuilding the countries economy.
America should spend the money sorting out their national debt (or simply to supply the existing military troops they are using).

Is there anyone who doesn't think that the missile defence system is simply a giant white elephant?
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: BlackDove on November 18, 2004, 05:37:59 am
Won't there be a point in time when both countries' funds are depleted and when they just say

"Oh well, I'm out of money, I'm gonna dissapear as a county. Might as well flip the switch - I've spent all my money on it, and if I can't exist as a county, I'll at least make sure no-one will"

* click *
Title: It's great to know the arms race isn't over
Post by: karajorma on November 18, 2004, 07:59:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I just threw out Africa as an example..


It's a bad example though. Several countries in Africa have no one but themselves to blame for the current situation. For instance Angola and Nigeria have huge oil revenues yet still have lots of people starving or dying of AIDS (In fact, if I remember correctly 1/3 of Angola's oil revenue dissappears annually due to mismanagement or corruption).

I really doubt that throwing money at the problem would help much. That doesn't mean that cancelling the debt they own the first world would be a bad idea though.