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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: pyro-manic on November 22, 2004, 11:54:17 am

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: pyro-manic on November 22, 2004, 11:54:17 am

Ukraine's pro-Russian PM claims election win, opposition and observers cry foul play:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4031981.stm

Your thoughts?

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Flipside on November 22, 2004, 12:46:17 pm

It seems to be becoming a fad in large countries these days..... ;)

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: vyper on November 22, 2004, 01:20:09 pm

I smell a velvet revolution coming. Putin seems to forget what century he's in.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Rictor on November 22, 2004, 01:54:38 pm

Keep in mind, the "pro Western reformer" isn't always the good guy. Usually, it means some neo-liberal stooge for Western business interests. Granted, he may be the lesser of two evils, but thats not saying a whole lot.

Note, I'm speaking in general, not about the Ukrainian elections specifically, of which I know little about.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Flipside on November 22, 2004, 01:57:51 pm

I must admit, reading through the article I felt this was less and less an election between the two contestants and more and more an election between Russian and American interests in the area.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Shrike on November 22, 2004, 03:05:47 pm

Ahh, eastern block Kleptocracries.  The humor they provide.

I love that word.  'Kleptocracy.'

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: vyper on November 22, 2004, 05:32:49 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Rictor
Keep in mind, the "pro Western reformer" isn't always the good guy. Usually, it means some neo-liberal stooge for Western business interests. Granted, he may be the lesser of two evils, but thats not saying a whole lot.

Note, I'm speaking in general, not about the Ukrainian elections specifically, of which I know little about.

Not at all, I kept it very much in mind but I still think it'd be better for all concerned if the reformer got in.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Flipside on November 22, 2004, 05:35:43 pm

Well, from one angle, at least opening the area up to the Western world a little would add some accountability to the situation there?

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Rictor on November 22, 2004, 06:21:50 pm

Well, I don't think there's been a failure to "embrace Western markets" or whatever, George Soros literally owns the country even now. It just a question of which business intersts will own it, and to what degree.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Knight Templar on November 22, 2004, 07:33:13 pm

My dad's best friend is Ukranian and is active in keeping up to date on Ukranian politics even though he lives in Canada. Anyway, he was very dissappointed about the election, having the other candidate peggeed as the guy who would bring the Ukraine out of their Communistic/Soviet way of living and into democracy (/capitalism) stronger.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: kasperl on November 23, 2004, 07:40:54 am

Well, according to the BBC there is pretty much a revolution coming, so it looks like this isn't over just yet.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: pyro-manic on November 23, 2004, 08:46:19 am

Looks that way. Though I'm not sure even that will be of huge help. The Crimean/Black Sea region is a bit of a shambles at the moment...

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Flipside on November 24, 2004, 11:16:00 am

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20041124/ap_on_re_eu/ukraine_elections_53

Stand by for ****/fan interface.....

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: mitac on November 24, 2004, 11:32:50 am

The further to the east, the less democratic it gets with those former soviet states. I'm not surprised, thinking of how long these states have been under soviet control. And the developments in the last 15 years did the rest.

By the way, take a look at this :

(http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,402203,00.jpg)

(http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,410309,00.jpg)

The first pic shows Yushchenko, the pro-western "loser" of the elections, a few months ago. The second pic is more recent. He's been treated by specialists in Vienna lately, focusing on poison. Now this is some point to speculate about.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: Knight Templar on November 25, 2004, 12:47:21 pm

Holy ****. He allergic to peanuts or something?

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: vyper on November 25, 2004, 12:56:19 pm

ITN news in the UK just said that there are reports Russian Special Forces are inside the Presidential Offices, presumably protecting the "winner".

I don't think Putin realises what he's doing.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: kasperl on November 25, 2004, 01:05:59 pm

I think he fully reliases it. He's playing with fire, granted, but if he can pull Ukraine close enough and keep em there he is fixing his own economy.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: vyper on November 25, 2004, 01:11:10 pm

Considering the reaction of most western states, I say he's miscalculated. No one wants Russia "fixed".

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: mitac on November 25, 2004, 05:11:50 pm

Considering that isolating the Ukraine binds it closer to Russia, one may get a different impression. But I wonder if that's worth the trouble.

BTW, the ukranian constitutional court ruled that the final election results may not be published until the issues concerning the manipulations are solved. This effectively prevents Yanukovych from taking over from his predecessor, who is still president.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: aldo_14 on November 25, 2004, 05:34:49 pm

Except Yanukovychs' part have said the Supreme Court may not have the authority to declare the elections invalid...

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: vyper on November 27, 2004, 08:04:45 am

The parliament just declared the last vote null and void.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4047421.stm
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=CIXER20BXO01SCRBAELCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=628759§ion=news

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: aldo_14 on November 27, 2004, 08:27:48 am

Oh, balls.  I just posted a thread on that.

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: vyper on November 27, 2004, 09:56:43 am

Foo! :p

Title: Comrade Yanukovych
Post by: aldo_14 on November 27, 2004, 07:38:10 pm

NB:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4044791.stm

"Ukraine state TV in revolt"