Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on November 24, 2004, 10:48:15 pm

Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: redmenace on November 24, 2004, 10:48:15 pm
:nervous:
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6911883
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1124041declar1.html
:(
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on November 24, 2004, 10:51:45 pm
Sad...
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 24, 2004, 10:52:00 pm
...WTH?
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: redmenace on November 24, 2004, 10:58:47 pm
Even from a point of view of academic freedom, this makes no sense.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: MatthewPapa on November 24, 2004, 10:59:00 pm
Heh, I seem to be un-banned again too.
That must mean Kaz got unbanned as well.

BTW, that article is total bull****. Stupid people. Whats this world coming too? Well they are Californians after all.....
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Bobboau on November 24, 2004, 10:59:10 pm
:ha:

go on you idiots make the rest of us look stupid

(I am talking to the people who enacted this moronicy, not those outraged/entertained by it)
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Ford Prefect on November 24, 2004, 11:02:43 pm
This is really ridiculous. The use of the word "God" in the Declaration of Independence is barely even religious. It's just a metaphorical way to describe the notion that there are certain rights that unify all people. The actual existence of god is hardly relevant to the point of the document.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Bobboau on November 24, 2004, 11:07:26 pm
wait a second I've been hearing about this for a while now, but I just now read about it, it seems like the only person saying that these were denied becase they contained the word God is the teacher, corect me if I'm wrong but did the princepal actualy say that they were banned becase of God?
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Carl on November 24, 2004, 11:22:39 pm
some people really need to be taking lithium. next they'll be banning kids from wearing Nike shoes in school, since Nike was the greek goddess of victory.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Kazan on November 24, 2004, 11:34:21 pm
it has more to the do with the supplemental texts that the teacher was using to try and create a false impression that all the founding fathers were christians -- she was even snipping partial quotes out to create that impression


Being that it's a historical document i have no gripe with the fact that it says "God" -- ONCE -- the constitution doesn't say god, at all, and persribes that there must be a seperation of church and state


To the Christians:I decry your religion, etc etc - but I have never, and will never, say that it should be outlawed [in seriousness] - I may despise your view and think you're foolish - but i will defend your right to hold that view ----- if only you extended the same courteousy to everyone else*

* only applicable to those fundamentalist christians who are supporting that fascist in the whitehouse and the agenda of his supporters
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: redmenace on November 25, 2004, 12:13:41 am
The teacher is being made to remove the passages from the material that contain the word God. At least that is my understanding of the sitch

BTW I should get banned more often :lol:
I got some work done for the SCP since I had no distractions
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Bobboau on November 25, 2004, 12:15:36 am
that was my impression of it at first but now I'm starting to think there is more to this
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Kazan on November 25, 2004, 12:16:12 am
like i said - the declairation is a historical document

quoting  historical figures (in entirety!) is 'historical' -- in history when you quote something and it happens to say 'god' that doesn't constitute government support of god

unless the teacher tries to manipulate it to do so -- which it sounds like this teacher was doing
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Bobboau on November 25, 2004, 12:16:17 am
how did you people get banned?
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Kazan on November 25, 2004, 12:19:37 am
getting very nasty with each other.. it relation to that paraphrase in my signature
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Bobboau on November 25, 2004, 12:23:43 am
heh... I guess the thread was 'perged'

anyway, I will withhold judgement untill I see these "supplemental handouts"
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Sandwich on November 25, 2004, 12:26:51 am
Re: Thread topic:

Oh God.


....oops. :nervous:
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Kazan on November 25, 2004, 12:36:19 am
lol

bobboau: it wasn't
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: karajorma on November 25, 2004, 03:08:56 am
Basically this is a case of either blatant stupidity on the part of the principle or a teacher who attempted to proselytize in school trying to hide it by falsifying claims of the above.

I consider both possibilities about equally likely considering the stupidity of some people.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: vyper on November 25, 2004, 07:48:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Re: Thread topic:

Oh God.


....oops. :nervous:


You called? :p
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Flipside on November 25, 2004, 08:05:52 am
The impression I'm getting here is that the teacher was over-using God with relation to the declaration. I seem to recall that America's founding father were not deeply religious people (in fact, if they were Irish, English and Spanish, we are talking Protestants, Catholics and CofE, it's like putting 3 cats in the same plastic bag, it just results in lots of hissing, claws and fur).

The teacher, however, seemsed to be trying to imply that America had been a 'Holy mission' from the start, to create a country founded on the laws of Christianity, which wasn't the case.

If that is the case, then the teacher is not giving their pupiils an unbiased view, which is not how you teach.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: aldo_14 on November 25, 2004, 08:22:02 am
It's hard to tell from the news stories, but it does sound as if he's using the Declaration et al as sources to support his views rather than as material to be taught & explained.  Very hard to know exactly what he was saying and what he was teaching from those stories, though.

Need more info, I think.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Kazan on November 25, 2004, 08:30:27 am
there were also very prominant founding fathers who were atheist, agnostic and deist
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: vyper on November 25, 2004, 08:39:09 am
I find it interesting that America's history is always played out  even in the mainstream as an exercise in escape from religious persecution. For the most part, it was born out of trade and colonists seeking better living conditions/land.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: aldo_14 on November 25, 2004, 08:43:46 am
It probably doesn't even matter what the religious / non-religious convictions of the founding fathers were - wasn't America colonised and then founded at least partly by pilgrims fleeing persecution anyways+?  And as such wouldn't it have to be an integral part of their thinking that any persecution based upon religion (including non-belief) was wrong*?

*NB: extending to the principle that persecution also would include the, um (how should I put this?) teaching of one belief in a non-equal manner to all opposing beliefs.  

It may be that their thinking or wording was focused towards the various types of Christian belief (i.e. Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, etc) because of the situation at the time, but the principle behind it seems very clear to me.

+Er... I think.  Not big on US history, feel free to correct me.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Clave on November 25, 2004, 08:52:14 am
America was founded when Britain decided to get rid of the grumpy Puritans and have some fun for a change.  They were supposed to be banished to the South Pole, but got lost....:p
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: deep_eyes on November 25, 2004, 08:52:15 am
okthis whole thing is like 2 yrs old lol.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Kazan on November 25, 2004, 09:37:04 am
aldo_14 nothing to correct - you're absofraginglutely correct
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: aldo_14 on November 25, 2004, 09:39:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by deep_eyes
okthis whole thing is like 2 yrs old lol.


Reuters article is dated yesterday.  How did it end, then?
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: vyper on November 25, 2004, 09:42:46 am
He's a forumite sent back from the future to protect us from a possible flame thread...
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Flipside on November 25, 2004, 09:46:14 am
:lol:
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Knight Templar on November 25, 2004, 12:19:12 pm
:blah:
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Sandwich on November 25, 2004, 05:00:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
He's a forumite sent back from the future to protect us from a possible flame thread...


:lol:
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Blitzerland on November 26, 2004, 02:18:19 pm
The future, eh? Tell me then, will I conquer Uzbekistan?
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Grey Wolf on November 27, 2004, 01:48:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Clave
America was founded when Britain decided to get rid of the grumpy Puritans and have some fun for a change.  They were supposed to be banished to the South Pole, but got lost....:p
In a rather ironic moment, this post is actually half right. The Pilgrims were kicked out of Britain for being so incredibly crazy that they scared even the most conservative members of the Church of England, after which they were lost on the way to the Virginia colony.
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Bobboau on November 27, 2004, 01:52:30 am
and you wonder why were so ****ed up now...
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Kazan on November 28, 2004, 07:10:27 pm
Australia got the criminals
We got the Puritans


They had the better deal
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Taristin on November 28, 2004, 07:25:23 pm
Criminals aren't necessarily bad people. They just did bad things...
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Grey Wolf on November 28, 2004, 07:25:57 pm
If only they had had even worse sense of direction, and landed in Cuba or something.....
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Kazan on November 28, 2004, 07:29:01 pm
or greenland
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: Knight Templar on November 28, 2004, 08:08:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
Australia got the criminals
We got the Puritans


They had the better deal


Oh, snap!
Title: Not that I want to be banned again...
Post by: aldo_14 on November 29, 2004, 03:33:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
Criminals aren't necessarily bad people. They just did bad things...


Like stealing books.  Some (most, probably) of the deportations to Oz were for stupid little crimes such as that (or being a street urchin, etc).