Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on November 24, 2004, 10:48:15 pm
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:nervous:
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6911883
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1124041declar1.html
:(
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Sad...
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...WTH?
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Even from a point of view of academic freedom, this makes no sense.
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Heh, I seem to be un-banned again too.
That must mean Kaz got unbanned as well.
BTW, that article is total bull****. Stupid people. Whats this world coming too? Well they are Californians after all.....
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:ha:
go on you idiots make the rest of us look stupid
(I am talking to the people who enacted this moronicy, not those outraged/entertained by it)
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This is really ridiculous. The use of the word "God" in the Declaration of Independence is barely even religious. It's just a metaphorical way to describe the notion that there are certain rights that unify all people. The actual existence of god is hardly relevant to the point of the document.
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wait a second I've been hearing about this for a while now, but I just now read about it, it seems like the only person saying that these were denied becase they contained the word God is the teacher, corect me if I'm wrong but did the princepal actualy say that they were banned becase of God?
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some people really need to be taking lithium. next they'll be banning kids from wearing Nike shoes in school, since Nike was the greek goddess of victory.
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it has more to the do with the supplemental texts that the teacher was using to try and create a false impression that all the founding fathers were christians -- she was even snipping partial quotes out to create that impression
Being that it's a historical document i have no gripe with the fact that it says "God" -- ONCE -- the constitution doesn't say god, at all, and persribes that there must be a seperation of church and state
To the Christians:I decry your religion, etc etc - but I have never, and will never, say that it should be outlawed [in seriousness] - I may despise your view and think you're foolish - but i will defend your right to hold that view ----- if only you extended the same courteousy to everyone else*
* only applicable to those fundamentalist christians who are supporting that fascist in the whitehouse and the agenda of his supporters
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The teacher is being made to remove the passages from the material that contain the word God. At least that is my understanding of the sitch
BTW I should get banned more often :lol:
I got some work done for the SCP since I had no distractions
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that was my impression of it at first but now I'm starting to think there is more to this
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like i said - the declairation is a historical document
quoting historical figures (in entirety!) is 'historical' -- in history when you quote something and it happens to say 'god' that doesn't constitute government support of god
unless the teacher tries to manipulate it to do so -- which it sounds like this teacher was doing
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how did you people get banned?
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getting very nasty with each other.. it relation to that paraphrase in my signature
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heh... I guess the thread was 'perged'
anyway, I will withhold judgement untill I see these "supplemental handouts"
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Re: Thread topic:
Oh God.
....oops. :nervous:
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lol
bobboau: it wasn't
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Basically this is a case of either blatant stupidity on the part of the principle or a teacher who attempted to proselytize in school trying to hide it by falsifying claims of the above.
I consider both possibilities about equally likely considering the stupidity of some people.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Re: Thread topic:
Oh God.
....oops. :nervous:
You called? :p
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The impression I'm getting here is that the teacher was over-using God with relation to the declaration. I seem to recall that America's founding father were not deeply religious people (in fact, if they were Irish, English and Spanish, we are talking Protestants, Catholics and CofE, it's like putting 3 cats in the same plastic bag, it just results in lots of hissing, claws and fur).
The teacher, however, seemsed to be trying to imply that America had been a 'Holy mission' from the start, to create a country founded on the laws of Christianity, which wasn't the case.
If that is the case, then the teacher is not giving their pupiils an unbiased view, which is not how you teach.
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It's hard to tell from the news stories, but it does sound as if he's using the Declaration et al as sources to support his views rather than as material to be taught & explained. Very hard to know exactly what he was saying and what he was teaching from those stories, though.
Need more info, I think.
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there were also very prominant founding fathers who were atheist, agnostic and deist
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I find it interesting that America's history is always played out even in the mainstream as an exercise in escape from religious persecution. For the most part, it was born out of trade and colonists seeking better living conditions/land.
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It probably doesn't even matter what the religious / non-religious convictions of the founding fathers were - wasn't America colonised and then founded at least partly by pilgrims fleeing persecution anyways+? And as such wouldn't it have to be an integral part of their thinking that any persecution based upon religion (including non-belief) was wrong*?
*NB: extending to the principle that persecution also would include the, um (how should I put this?) teaching of one belief in a non-equal manner to all opposing beliefs.
It may be that their thinking or wording was focused towards the various types of Christian belief (i.e. Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, etc) because of the situation at the time, but the principle behind it seems very clear to me.
+Er... I think. Not big on US history, feel free to correct me.
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America was founded when Britain decided to get rid of the grumpy Puritans and have some fun for a change. They were supposed to be banished to the South Pole, but got lost....:p
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okthis whole thing is like 2 yrs old lol.
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aldo_14 nothing to correct - you're absofraginglutely correct
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Originally posted by deep_eyes
okthis whole thing is like 2 yrs old lol.
Reuters article is dated yesterday. How did it end, then?
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He's a forumite sent back from the future to protect us from a possible flame thread...
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:lol:
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:blah:
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Originally posted by vyper
He's a forumite sent back from the future to protect us from a possible flame thread...
:lol:
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The future, eh? Tell me then, will I conquer Uzbekistan?
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Originally posted by Clave
America was founded when Britain decided to get rid of the grumpy Puritans and have some fun for a change. They were supposed to be banished to the South Pole, but got lost....:p
In a rather ironic moment, this post is actually half right. The Pilgrims were kicked out of Britain for being so incredibly crazy that they scared even the most conservative members of the Church of England, after which they were lost on the way to the Virginia colony.
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and you wonder why were so ****ed up now...
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Australia got the criminals
We got the Puritans
They had the better deal
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Criminals aren't necessarily bad people. They just did bad things...
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If only they had had even worse sense of direction, and landed in Cuba or something.....
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or greenland
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Originally posted by Kazan
Australia got the criminals
We got the Puritans
They had the better deal
Oh, snap!
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Originally posted by Raa
Criminals aren't necessarily bad people. They just did bad things...
Like stealing books. Some (most, probably) of the deportations to Oz were for stupid little crimes such as that (or being a street urchin, etc).