Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: DaBrain on November 26, 2004, 05:06:31 pm
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I need help with some tests concerning EFF.
First I need a mass renaming programm. I hope there is something like this out there. Otherwise I'll have to rename thousands of frames.
I'm short in time, so I need you to test some things and do the rename work. I'll try to be at least one time online each day.
Also you'll have to write a EFF file, nothing more complicated than a table.
Here is everything you need to know:
http://www.sectorgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1230&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=52d9ceea1ffebf9a97a168f358645108
What you get: The effect itself. And you are allowed to use the effect for your mod without any further permission. At one point you'll probably get preview or Beta effects.
As soon as all effects are done, I'll release a complete build. You'll find your name under 'Special thanks'
I'll start with the shockwave.
(http://img129.exs.cx/img129/538/shockwave0066.jpg)
http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/shockwave_test.rar DOWN
(101 fames 512² DDS, DXT5 compression)
Note: This effect has a size of 25 MB! (1,6 MB with RAR compression.)
Use this one
92 frames, DDS DXT5, 23MB in-game memory usage. (1,1MB compressed DL size)
->Download (http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/sw_mid-range_version.rar)<- (New version)
Please give me some feedback, or I can't start working on this until next year or even later.
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Looks like the Eye of Sauron. :D
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ACD See supports mass renaming (it's an image viewer). Should be fully functional shareware, the version I use the only limitation is a nag box IIRc.
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Thanks. ;)
Could be just what I need.
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Irfanview is a renamer too... AFAIK.
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PSP 8 has batch processing/renaming capabilities that I've found invaluable for post production when animating.
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you could just make a batch file
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Irfanview's batch rename is pretty easy to use. If you have any trouble with it just catch me on ICQ.
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So, is anyone here interested in running some quality tests with the effect?
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Uh, well that slows me down.
Anyway:
It's a shame what DXT5 did to my uncompressed frames, but still better than what Bright (256c converter) did to them.
No performance problems so far. They should be there, but I had no problems (and I'm not running a uber-system) . Even more confusing is, that there is no slowdown, when I'm close up to the effect, like what happend for ANIs.
BTW the frames are now renamed and the EFF file is included. That means you just have to extract everything in the package to your /data/effects folder.
Download (http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/shockwave_test.rar) Final version!
(99 fames 512² DDS, DXT5 compression)
Note: This effect has a size of 24 MB! (1,75 MB with RAR compression.)
As Lightspeed guessed the comression quality loss is lessened by the animation.
(http://img88.exs.cx/img88/1305/s29.jpg)
(http://img88.exs.cx/img88/9822/s30.jpg)
(http://img88.exs.cx/img88/3199/s31.jpg)
(http://img88.exs.cx/img88/5253/shockwave24_1.jpg)
(http://img88.exs.cx/img88/450/shockwave24_2.jpg)
Just to compare. The 256c shockwave (blue version)
(http://img27.exs.cx/img27/9554/blueshock.jpg)
Note: Perfect palette opimization.
You can find better shots of the new effect here:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25406.0.html
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Shockwave goes a little too fast IMO..... but that's not your fault...
it looks great:) actually.. I love it.:D
oh, and btw... i think you need this build to see it: (for people too lazy to actually read the thread linked to in the first post:D)
http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/willrobinson/20041029-win32.zip
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:eek:
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Originally posted by wolfdog
Shockwave goes a little too fast IMO..... but that's not your fault...
it looks great:) actually.. I love it.:D
oh, and btw... i think you need this build to see it: (for people too lazy to actually read the thread linked to in the first post:D)
http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/willrobinson/20041029-win32.zip
It should work with all new builds.
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Sorry to be dense, but where do these files go?
NB: re speed, does the game store the entire effect frameset or just the one frame in ram when it plays?
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All files come to the \effects folder.
I have no clue about the storage system...
Btw, what does "NB" stand for?
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Nota bine; side note
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I should try to rembemer this.
:)
Topic: I found a much better way to create better results, with less space.
(1024² effect, 14 MB). But it's to big for my tiny webspace with it's 6 MB even compressed. :(
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as a semi-random thought:
is it possible to code/animate stuff so that we would actually have 2 shockwaves for each shockwave? like, one how it is now (or how dabrain is doing it :p ) and the other one kinda smokey, maybe have some debris animated in it for coolnesss sake?
i hope that made sence
i also hopee you can read my typing, myy fingers are VERY vold.
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Yeah, nice idea. (If I got it right ;) )
Uhm, well is there somebody willing to host this effect?
I've 'improved' ;) my shockwave and it now consits of 8-bit PCX frames. But each frame has an unique palette! It looks great.
(http://img91.exs.cx/img91/8059/screen56.jpg)
(http://img91.exs.cx/img91/1871/screen57.jpg)
(http://img91.exs.cx/img91/1350/screen58.jpg)
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ooohh, very nice. illl host it for you, but i only got about 3 megs of storage space, and i cant host it for long. want me to PM you me email addy? (id post it up, but im really paranoid ;) )
BTW, what build are you using in those shots? the thruster glow looks... different...
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Thanks, but 3 megs are not enough. :(
Uhm, and the glows are from the Starfox mod.
I'm using this (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/20041106-Goober5000.rar) build.
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oh well :p i hope to get a domain name of my own someday, and then i can run the server meself. but first i have to find out how >.<
thx for linkey to build...
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The PCX version sure runs slower than the DDS version. But why?
The DDS package weights over 10 MB more in size.
I don't want to go back to DDS. PCX looks so much better.
(http://img91.exs.cx/img91/464/screen09.jpg)
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email it to [email protected] and I'll upload it to my webspace temporarily. Can also put it on fileplanet.
EDIT; will upload tomorrow. I'm off to be now :)
NB: I think DDS is an optimized format that's a lot easier & quicker for the graphics card to process and display; so it's bigger in size, but probably quicker to process. Also, PCX may take up more memory in card ram than it does in disk terms; I'm not exactly sure how this stuff is exactly stored, or particularly how it is compressed for transfer.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
The PCX version sure runs slower than the DDS version. But why?
The DDS package weights over 10 MB more in size.
Because the PCX version takes just as much memory as a 32-bit TGA version would. That's why.
The only way to reduce it in size is either to use ANI (which forces the lower colour depth) or DDS files.
Care to make one of these with the blue version? I'd like to give it a try. :)
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Why should one use PCX then anyway?
Can make the EFF use 8-bit per frame by unchecking "Enable 32bit textures" or by checking "Compress PCX" ?
I also have a DXT1 version of the effect, but it's not as beautiful.
And the size is at nearly 50MB!
I'll see about the blue one. I'll probably try it, but you can do it too if you want to. :)
@aldo Sending the e-mail now. I hope gmail supports attachments lager than 6MB.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
It should work with all new builds.
that's what I thought too... but it doesn't, at least not for me:confused:
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
Because the PCX version takes just as much memory as a 32-bit TGA version would. That's why.
The only way to reduce it in size is either to use ANI (which forces the lower colour depth) or DDS files.
It's only going to use that much memory if you use -pcx32, otherwise it would use half that of a JPG or TGA version. For the PCX version (if it's 512x512) then it's using 0.5 meg of memory per frame. That's twice the 32-bit DDS version. Believe it or not the memory size of the DDS frames is the same as an 8-bit ANI of the same 512x512 size.
Size of 99 frame DDS version (at 512x512 32-bit): 24.75 meg
Size of 99 frame ANI version (at 512x512 8-bit): 24.75 meg
@DaBrain: PCX, by default, is made 16-bit even if the palette is 8-bit. I want to allow 8-bit EFFs but it's not high on my todo list at the moment. "Enable 32bit textures" isn't going to help any since it only allows the use of JPG and TGA, nothing more. "Compress PCX" just turns a PCX into a DDS file so you would be better off just using DDS in the first place. It only works with D3D too so OGL users wouldn't get any help from it.
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Originally posted by wolfdog
that's what I thought too... but it doesn't, at least not for me:confused:
Try to delete all shockwave ANIs.
That was the problem I had.
Originally posted by taylor
Size of 99 frame DDS version (at 512x512 32-bit): 24.75 meg
Size of 99 frame ANI version (at 512x512 8-bit): 24.75 meg
Well, but the DDS size is only so high if you use DXT5.
I can cut it half by using DXT1, at cost of image quality of course.
@Everybody who is interested in these effects:
I'll continue to convert some of my effects to EFF. But(!) these effects will require a high-end system with at least 512MB ram and a midrange gfx card with at least 64MB ram, or better 128MB ram.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
Well, but the DDS size is only so high if you use DXT5.
I can cut it half by using DXT1, at cost of image quality of course.
My point is that using DXT5 (if that's what you used) for your shockwave animation is not using any more memory than an 8-bit ANI of the same thing. It's got better color quality and is faster because it doesn't require extra processing first by the game, the video card does it internally. Ignoring image quality for a moment, using the DDS version is more efficient and uses less memory than a PCX, JPG or TGA version. It would also be faster than an ANI version even using the same amount of memory.
You can save memory better by reducing the dimentions and/or reducing the number of frames. Although the new PCX version may look a bit better it's using twice the amount of memory over the DDS version. It's always going to be a quality tradeoff but the DDS looks good to me and it's average frame time in a large mission is something like 2.5 seconds. I'd rather have *much* more memory for other effects than a bit better looking shockwave effect that I get to see for 2.5 seconds.
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Ok, I totaly agree with that.
Still I think the shockwave is the one effect allowed to be bigger (file size) than the other effects. Speaking of animations of course.
But more than 24Mb is probably too much. I'll tweak it a bit.
BTW DXT1 doesn't look that much worse compared to DXT5, at least not for this effect.
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There ya go;
www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/temp/test_beta.rar
www.aldo14.f2s.com/temp/test_beta.rar
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/3dactionplanet/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/test_beta.rar (FP)
(I'll possibly have to clear the 'good' - no FilePlanet - links in a few weeks time depending on space usage)
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As you'll probabaly get performance problems with this one, it's better to disable -pcx32 from the commandline.
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I need some feedback for the effects. Please download the second effect (aldo's link) and check out the performance in-game.
Then post here if you have or if you not have had any performance problems. And I need your system specs (most important: ram) and which commandline you're using.
If you're using a mod like Inferno please add this to your posting.
I'm also interessted how the first effect works for you, although the second one is more important.
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Happy birthday BTW
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Originally posted by DaBrain
Please download the second effect (aldo's link) and check out the performance in-game.
AAHHH! That one is 188 meg. I do think it looks better, except for the initial (white?) shockwave which is banded, but it looks more like you optimized the latter half of the frames some from the earlier DDS version.
(cries that no one wished me a happy birthday :( )
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everyone was too busy *****ing about election day. Sorry taylor. Happy belated birthday though!;)
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Yaknow, i dont mean to hijack this thread or anything, actualy this is still quite on topic but..
It would be cool if we had an SCP feature that would orient shockwaves on a random plane.
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Originally posted by redmenace
Happy birthday BTW
Thanks. :)
Originally posted by taylor
(cries that no one wished me a happy birthday :( )
Oh my bad, I didn't see it on the page.
Happy Birthday. Although it comes a little bit too late. :)
And about the shockwave: ... oops. ;) I really thought PCX files could be loaded directly into the memory. (That would be 14 MB.)
Looks like I was wrong. Still runs more or less ok, without -pcx32.
I still want some feedback. But I'm more interested in the first effect now.
Originally posted by FireCrack
Yaknow, i dont mean to hijack this thread or anything, actualy this is still quite on topic but..
It would be cool if we had an SCP feature that would orient shockwaves on a random plane.
This is already possible (except the 'random' I think).
And I already have concept for this. But it's not going to be easy.
(Animated texture(glowmap?)... could be better for the performance too.) The model itself is no problem. Even I can do it. ;)
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Originally posted by redmenace
everyone was too busy *****ing about election day. Sorry taylor. Happy belated birthday though!;)
Thanks (DaBrain too)! Next year I'm 30 and officially old so I'm milking my last 11 months of youth for all they're worth. :D
And since it's not too late for you: Happy Birthday, DaBrain!!
Now where did I put that singing candle...
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I tried both of them and without the pcx32 flag I noticed no slowdown. The only problem is they expand way to fast, so I couldn't really see how they looked.
But when I do turn the flag on for the pcx one well, lets just say that I get a real good look at them. ;) I don't think my computer liked that.
My computer specs are:
AMD 2600+
512MB RAM
Radeon 9600 256MB
command line: -spec -glow -jpgtga -targetinfo -nomotiondebris -2d_poof -max_subdivide -env
And its your birthday?! You should've told me so I wouldn't have got you anything. (j/k) ;)
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@Axem: You've got enough memory that would probably wouldn't notice it that much with the PCX version. If you were playing a large mission though it would crawwwl. If you use the pcx32 option the shockwave animation has just gobbled up 376 megs of your RAM so yeah, it's going to be kinda slow.
Oh and I'm pretty sure that -max_subdivide does absolutely nothing. Unless it's written in invisible code that is. I was going to make sure OpenGL could make use of the option until I noticed that it's not used *anywhere* in the code.
@DaBrain: I don't have a DDS viewer to check for sure but about the last 25 frames of the PCX version seem a bit different from the DDS version. I don't know if it's the increased dimensions (1024x1024 is really too big for an anim though) or if you just restructured some of the frames to cut 5 off, but it looks better. Also I don't know if it's possible but if you cut the frames down to between 80 and 84 and getting looking good with DDS it would be a very nice, and (relatively) memory friendly, effect. I have a feeling that it's not going to be very good with that many frames cut out but the idea is there if you think it's worth a try. Nice work either way though, the DDS version is my default shockwave now.
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The effect itself is extremly altered even before the last frames.
I fear it's to complicated now to cut our frames from the middle.
The only thin I can do is to cut out one or two frames from the start.
I'll probably go for a 91-93 frame, 512² DXT5 animation.
Bigger than the old ani, but faster. So I think that's an improvement.
And I'll use only one or no LOD, to save memory. It's faster than an ANI anyway, so why use LOD. ;)
BTW the effect runs too fast. I know, but the tables are to blame. ;)
@Axem and Taylor: Thanks. :)
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Originally posted by taylor
Oh and I'm pretty sure that -max_subdivide does absolutely nothing. Unless it's written in invisible code that is. I was going to make sure OpenGL could make use of the option until I noticed that it's not used *anywhere* in the code.
Bob implimented ATI's Trueform option, but it was still experimental. I believe one of the other team members was trying to create a less ATI-restrictive, software method of simulating Trueform. I'll wait for his word on the issue before turning it off myself. Besides, I'm not entirely sure I'm using it correctly, since the Wiki says something about a x.xx decimal figure needing to be put after the flag, so it may be doing nothing for me right now.
Later!
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Um I tired taylor's build and in game it made stained glass looking reflections cover my screen from what ever ship was near my reticle. If a Sathanas was 5000 meters away ans I turned toward it a kalidescope of transparent yet colored sathanas textures filled the whole screen...
Can you make a standard pcx animation for that explosion? I do like it and yes, it will defiately need to be slowed down. Maybe 25-50%?
l8tr
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To slow it down some table changes need be done. (Probably in the ships.tbl and in the weapons.tbl.)
I'll work on this later. Or is there anybody willing to help me out, so I can concentrate on the effects? I'm not really good when it comes to tables.
I can't create an ANI of this effect. It has too many colors. It'd look horrible as ANI.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Nota bine; side note
Actually, it's Nota Bene, which is a Latin command meaning "Note Well!" (i.e. "Pay attention!")
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Originally posted by taylor
@DaBrain: I don't have a DDS viewer to check for sure but [...] [/B]
Try I-view32. The newest version + plugins are very useful for DDS animations. (Just hit 'space' and watch the animation ;) )
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What will look better?
512² DXT5
or
1024² DXT1
The filesize is the same (0,25MB per frame - 93 frames). Also in your gfx ram.
Or is there any performance difference?
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I think that DXT1 quality is based on the video card to some extent. DXT5 should look about the same on all models but I think that DXT1 only looks good in ATI hardware. I think that DXT5 is a little slower but has the better all around quality. If you go with DXT1 I'd make sure to get it tested on NVIDIA hardware before deciding. DXT1 quality may be fixed in newer (last two years) NVIDIA cards but it used to be a problem.
And about I-View32, I know there are viewers available but just not for Linux. I'd probably write something from scratch before using it on windows ;)
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Ok, so I think I'll just offer both versions and have some Nividia users (like myself) test what looks better.
Didn't know you're using Linux. ;)
Not the worst choice. hehe
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ARGH!!! You've made a monster!
It's beautiful work, DaBrain, (and excuse me if I missed something relating to this. I skimmed the thread) But it MURDERS my framerates. They drop to about 1 for the duration of every explosion :eek:
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Here it is the final version for mid-end PCs. (And probably high-end ones.)
Dunno how to improve the quality more. I'd love to go to 1024². But means 4x more memory usage. And even if I go for DXT1 I can only cut it down to 46MB, which is too much IMHO. More like a super-high-end version. ;) And don't forget there will be more EFF effects soon. ;)
So I took down the old version (the first) to get enough space to upload the new one. It is better anyway.
92 frames, DDS DXT5, 23MB in-game memory usage. (1,1MB compressed DL size)
->Download (http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/sw_mid-range_version.rar)<-
If you have non-memory related performance problems with ANI shockwaves, check out how the new ones works for you. ;)
They're way faster for me.
I hope you'll have fun with this. :)
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Noooo, one of the files is corrupted (One stupid file!).
I downloaded it twice to see if it was my end, but it looks like you'll need to re-upload it.
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Oh... strange. Wait a minute I'll check the frame. If it's ok, I'll repack, and upload it again.
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Try again. It should work now. ;)
BTW works great in-game.
I've had no problems with the effect. Even with env,
glow, shine mapping and all the other nice SCP features.
Plus 2xAA and 4xAF. (To see how the effect works on gfx cards with less ram)
I'm using a good old Geforce 4 TI 4200.
The comression is awful. But ok in animations. It's a shame we can't use uncompressed frames. ;(
(http://img13.exs.cx/img13/2749/screen115.jpg)
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Thanks for the midrange version.
The pcx ones killed my fps no matter what I did, and I felt like I was missing out with the old dds ones.
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Thanks for the midrange version.
The pcx ones killed my fps no matter what I did, and I felt like I was missing out with the old dds ones.
It all looks better than the originals though.
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Cruddy dial-up! It posted me twice!
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There are probably only a few people who can use the PCX version without making FS2 completly unplayable.
And even that will change soon, as more effects are on the way. ;)
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:lol:
:welcome:
Edit is your friend
DaBrain:
Nice, but there seems to be some pixelation along the edges.
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Can't do nothing about them. This is what you get for using DXT5 compression.
Looks worse in shots that it does in-game. Indeed I hardly noticed it while I was playing.
BTW the next four effects are ready now. ;)
I'll add some and upload it soon. Tomorrow.
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- New Download -
We're close to a complete package.
But first here is a preview version:
The shockwave is included. And some other EFF effects (improved versions of my ANI effects. Well and much other stuff. Glows, trails, particles. (258 files, 31,5MB unrared, 3,35MB rared.)
And I took down the shockwave, as it is included anyway.
Part 1 (http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/preview.part01.rar)
Part 2 (http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/preview.part02.rar)
Sorry for the two part DL
I've reworked the missle trails again. I know it's a minor detail, but I like it.
(http://img69.exs.cx/img69/3334/Unbenannt-1Kopie4.jpg)
And again I'd like to know how it works on your systems. (especially on low-end systems)
I may even speed up some thing.
Tell me how it works, your system specs, commandline, res, bit depth and other things that might prove useful.
Uhm, this is for your own good you know...
@Mods Could you please fix the thread name. :nervous:
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winrar says ExpMissleHit1.ani and shockwave01_0031.dss are corrupt.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
- New Download -
*snip*
I looooooooooove your skybox! It adds such a whimsy to the game. If that were a render I'd give it a :yes: for everything but the red glow :)
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What is the feasability of using effs in place of anis for interface art like command briefings and rotating ship images in the ship select screen?
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
What is the feasability of using effs in place of anis for interface art like command briefings and rotating ship images in the ship select screen?
Pretty much none at the moment. The code used to display the anis is completely different, it's run more like a movie than individual frames shown in a timed sequence. Actually that's kind of the same thing but maybe you get my meaning. Though not impossible it would be a bit more difficult to implement than effects based EFFs. It may be easier to implement MJPEG (Motion-JPEG) with an open source library than do EFFs since the number of frames needed really makes the current EFF format a tremendous burden.
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Originally posted by JR2000Z
winrar says ExpMissleHit1.ani and shockwave01_0031.dss are corrupt.
Does anybody have this problem too?
Originally posted by Raa
I looooooooooove your skybox! It adds such a whimsy to the game. If that were a render I'd give it a :yes: for everything but the red glow :)
That skybox is for the Starfox mod. It took me quite some time to work on it. It is a render BTW.
Uhm, about the red glow...
The glow "sun" is part of the MV pack. I've nothing to do with it.
I've already completed a new "sun". ;) SF fans will know what I mean. Should probably use it for the next shots.
Edit: Looks like there really is an error in the RAR. I'll upload it again.
Ok, fixed. ;)
Happy downloading.
@taylor Somehow DDS beamglows stopped working for me. (They did work before.)
Now the just don't appear.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
@taylor Somehow DDS beamglows stopped working for me. (They did work before.)
Now the just don't appear.
I noticed that too. It's on my list of things to do today. It really needs to be fixed before 3.6.5 goes out. If you notice anything else that's missing let me know.
EDIT: That was quick. It can't figure out what DXTC format it's in for some reason. I checked with the windows viewer from NVIDIA and it said DXT5 but the game doesn't read it for some reason. This is for the beamglow's, newmiss's and MissileTrail's. There are TGA versions in there for the last two which is why only the beamglows didn't show up.
Great work on this by the way. I was going over memory usage and though I didn't grab the numbers for every graphic, some are larger and a few smaller than the old versions. shieldhit especially is half the size of the old version and the total memory size of all the new graphics so far looks to be less the originals. The only exception being the shockwave of course.
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For me FS2_open runs more smooth with these effects. (And looks far better IMHO. ;) ).
No more slow-downs during the game. The FPS rate is more constant.
Especially the smoke made problems before. But it's no problem anymore. :)
(BTW it looks almost exactly like the ANI version, but more colorful.)
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Originally posted by DaBrain
Especially the smoke made problems before. But it's no problem anymore. :)
(BTW it looks almost exactly like the ANI version, but more colorful.)
I never really liked the old effect personally. The new one is much better. There does appear to be a strange green in it though but I don't know if that's a rendering problem or something with the image.
If you figure out what happened to the coding of those other graphics (my post above) and make a new release I'm betting it's going to look even better. I encoded the problem DDS files with the command line nvdxt utility from NVIDIA and not only did that fix it but the file size dropped considerably on them too. I'm not sure if they were just corrupt or if it was something when you saved them.
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Strange I do not have had any green in any of these effects. Neither they are corrupt. (Should try OpenGL though.)
The other effects are just 24-Bit DDS files. No compression. These effects look terrible with compression. The strange thing is, the missle trails work for me. Also the new shivan thruster trails. (All 24-Bit 8:8:8 RGB - DDS)
But the beamglows refuse to work. Well, no problem I can use TGA for this anyway (or does this have any negative effect?). But it should work, I think.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
But the beamglows refuse to work. Well, no problem I can use TGA for this anyway (or does this have any negative effect?). But it should work, I think.
Encoding them to DXT5 makes the beamglows work for me. The dds reader used by OpenGL doesn't support uncompressed DDS. D3D uses this same thing to see if a DDS is valid or not since it's much faster than the old way. This is probably why it's broken in my late October builds and in the November builds. I'll try and update ddsutils and the OpenGL code to handle uncompressed DDS.
As far as the green (tint) goes this is a screenshot of it. I thought it was just part of the nebula at first but it's just black space and stars behind the smoke. You can also see the green over the ships hull. If you don't see this (in OGL either) then it may just be my build since it's got a lot of experimental stuff in it.
(http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/pics/gsc.jpg)
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Seems to be ok in D3D. At least for me.
(http://img89.exs.cx/img89/8179/a3-looks_ok.jpg)
I'll check OpenGL now.
Edit: Or I won't...
Error: error loading particlesmoke01_0001 -- File not found
File:E:\Languages\Visual Studio Projects\Visual C++\fs2_open\code\Bmpman\BmpMan.cpp
Line: 1995
Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, right. The file is missing... That's why it works with D3D... :ick:
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Originally posted by DaBrain
Seems to be ok in D3D. At least for me.
I should have mentioned that it's only when it's pretty close to the screen that I see it. About 3 or 4 ship lengths or more away and it looks fine. Just check with a closer view in D3D and if it's fine then don't worry about it. It's either a build issue and I'll just have to suffer, or it's an OpenGL thing that I'll have to fix at some point down the road.
Originally posted by DaBrain
Error: error loading particlesmoke01_0001 -- File not found
Heh, forgot about that. It's fixed in CVS but no builds have working EFFs using DDS in OpenGL. The EFF code doesn't pass an extension and the DDS code just forgets to add the ".dds" when trying to read the file data and therefore fails to load. It will work fine in the official 3.6.5.
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Originally posted by taylor
I should have mentioned that it's only when it's pretty close to the screen that I see it. About 3 or 4 ship lengths or more away and it looks fine. Just check with a closer view in D3D and if it's fine then don't worry about it. It's either a build issue and I'll just have to suffer, or it's an OpenGL thing that I'll have to fix at some point down the road.
No problem at close range. I've tested this before. Cause I wanted to know how the smoke EFF performs on close-ups.
There also is no green in the DDS files.
Sorry for the shot it was the best I had at hand.
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This looks really pixelated:
http://www.overlords-from-hell.de/images/screen00.jpg
I use your preview and these parameters:
-spec -glow -jpgtga -d3dmipmap -dualscanlines -targetinfo -orbradar -dnoshowvid
Specs in my signature.
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Apart from any problems with pixelation or odd colors, neither of which I experience : I really like these new effects. Very nice job. :nod:
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I liked the firey ParticleSmoke effects you did before better than these smokey ones. Other than that these are great, especially the shockwave. But where are those suns from?
Overlord: That's a problem with that particular explosion, the animation itself is horrible pixelated.
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Originally posted by Overlord
This looks really pixelated:
http://www.overlords-from-hell.de/images/screen00.jpg
I use your preview and these parameters:
-spec -glow -jpgtga -d3dmipmap -dualscanlines -targetinfo -orbradar -dnoshowvid
Specs in my signature.
Nope that is none of my effects.
AFAiK it's an OTT explosion. Inferno used this effect. But I've replaced the effect for them. (The the Inferno screenshot thread.)
But the effect was not released for public. (And btw it's an ANI. The EFF - DDS version of it would look more blured.)
You should delete all exp06 ANIs.
I need some nubers and specs. Consider the preview package as Beta test. I'll tweak what's in need of tweaking. But you have to tell me what is needed.
So far everything looks fine. The effects themself do not cause any problem, but should increase the quality and performance.
@Ransom Arceihn Suns? I did not include a sun...
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Yeah, you didn't. I mean the ones in the screenshots. They're not Lighty's, at least not the ones on Milliways... I must have missed something, Overlord seems to have them too.
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@Ransom Arceihn: They are in the mv_effects_c.vp i think.
@DaBrain: Yes these explosions were OTT-effects, i removed them.
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I've uploaded a fix for the preview package to get around the code bug.
You should be able to see the glows with this. This is the best solution.
There is no need to delete something, as the game will prefer TGA over DDS.
Download (http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/preview_fix.rar)
You should take a look at Firecracks "beamz" too. Although I don't like his beam glows (and some of them still have seams), the beams are nice
edit:
(http://img65.exs.cx/img65/434/1b-screen15.jpg)
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Looked like a render at first sight.
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heh, he's playing 2nd great war part II
these effects are awesome, perhaps i should try them
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Since I didn't get any negative feedback, the test stage is over.
Consider the last package as the final one.
(But don't foget the fix for now! You won't need it anymore soon though.)
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shivan beam origin points are still blue
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Yup, I've not used a modified table. (Note: The blue glow is the Starfox thruster glow. Not included!)
I have a red glow in the package. Even a white glow if someone ever needs it for a mod or something.
I think FireCrack's "beamz" tables should fix this.
Turambar I think you had a table which did this too.
The table in the MV pack should also fix this.
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*notes a mapping error on the Deimos*
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The Deimos in the shot uses Bob's "old' model. The new version is fixed, I think.
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A shot like that could make an impressive spashscreen for the contest.
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Yes, my tables fix all the beam weirdness, such as the shivan beams using thrusterglows nad the terren beams using redbeams.
by the way, i love that beam impact effect
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I'd like to recomend Firecrack's new table to all the people who use my effects and Lightspeed's weapon effects.
http://members.shaw.ca/firecrack/weapons.tbl
And of course his beam effects. :)
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Thank you
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ill take a loot at it. :D
Ive already downloaded the effects; and they look fantastic! Some slow down is present, but this goes away after a short while (as is normal with taylor's builds, but might be slower as im using Bob's rotating build atm)
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These effects are great, a huge improvement over the originals!
Is there any chance of more understated, 'breaking up' explosions? Inferno had some smaller explosions that were just small flashes, bits of debris, gas clouds etc, and it makes fighter combat look much better when you tag someone at 900m. Would there be a problem with the geometry changing if there was no explosion to hide it?
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I remeber playing Inferno and a capship blow up with this smoky explosion (exp06). Apart from the explsion (which is ugly!) the seperation of the ship parts was clearly visible. IMHO a very ugly byproduct.
So I don't think small explosions are a good idea.
Well, that might change as soon as we have either blooming or pixel shaders. And the right ps scripts of course. ;)
BTW I've replaced the Inferno explosion already. Not for public though. Wait for release 2.
Edit: I could post a shot, right?
http://img84.exs.cx/img84/1390/inf2.jpg
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Here it is the final version for low-end PCs.
92 frames, DDS DXT5, 5,7 MB in-game memory usage. (0,4MB compressed DL size)
->Download (http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/shockwave_low-end_version.rar)<-
Note: It has the same res as the stock shockwave. But the colors and the performance should be better.
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Everytime you come out with some new effects, it´s always a great visible improvement. I´m really looking forward for your next releases :nod:
For the shockwave speed. It can be set in the ships.tbl. This is good, ´cause it´s easily done. This is bad, ´cause you have to do it for every single ship, in every single mod and campaign, which uses their own ships.tbl.
A solution could be (as i did in the EFF flak-explosion) the use of tbm-filles. It´s a bit work, but you have to do it just once. I´m not that expert for these things (i just have tried it for the first time), but if you like, i´ll try to create a ships.tbm this weekend, that only effects the shockwave speed. I´m not sure if it works, but i will see. What do you think?
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That would be great. I'm really thankful for all kind of help.
;)
BTW I'm a horrible table modder. Don't expect the game work after I touched the tables. ;7
Well, I'm glad I won't have to do it.
You tbm will probably draw the MediaVP guys attention on it. ;)
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"I will do my very best":D
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Auch schön das mir jemand hilf der deutsch spricht. ;)
War das eben aus "Dinner for one"? :)
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genau - right:)
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Uhm a little note:
The really big ships have to slow(!) shockwaves. They look stuttery. (Well, better than the stock ones, due to double frame count, but still...)
I think that is limited to the Colossus and the Satanas. But I'm not sure.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
Uhm a little note:
The really big ships have to slow(!) shockwaves. They look stuttery. (Well, better than the stock ones, due to double frame count, but still...)
I think that is limited to the Colossus and the Satanas. But I'm not sure.
I'm using your old version of the yellow shockwave, it is very slow compare to the media vp 3.6.5.
Now i can admire them :D
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Mmmh, it seems that it is not possible to use partial entries from the ships.tbl and use them in a modular table file. This means you can´t just copy and paste the entries for the shockwave, you have to copy the entries of the whole ship. Too bad, cause this means that you will override changes in the ships.tbl of mods, if you use the tbm. Nervertheless i will try to create a tbm with all capships and reduced shockwave speeds , so that everyone can decide to use it or not. If a modmaker do not change the original values of the vanilla FS2 ships, the tbm could be a perfect solution.
Check out on sunday.
But maybe there is someone out there (knock, knock WMcool), who can definetly say, that partial entries in tbm-files are possible or not.
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I noticed the flak ani (the FS1 one) is not used in the current MV pack anymore. So I thought I could tweak the stock effect a bit. ;)
Well, I reworked more than I wanted, but it turned out to be pretty cool.
Use it if you want to. It uses a altered weapons_expl.tbl (from the MV pack).
(http://img118.echo.cx/img118/1551/flak17ff.jpg)
(http://img118.echo.cx/img118/306/flakclose3pp.jpg)
Well, shots won't show much of it....
http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/flak_EFF.rar
(28 frame DDS EEF, 256² size)
It may cause better performance on systems with a slow CPU.
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Ohhh, pretty.
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Can you make a blue version ? ^^
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Hmm sure, no problem.
Check again in few minutes... ;)
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Done.
The compression looks a bit worse with the blue effect, but I think it's hardly noticeable @28 fps. ;)
http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/flak_blue_EFF.rar
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Thx very much :)
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So after some test, the blue version is pretty good except the pixels size which are too big. Is it possible to reduce pixel size and so add more pixel in the flak explo to make something awesome ? :D
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Hmm, it's just a slightly reworked version of the stock effect.
I think I could raise the contrast to make the pixels smaller. Yeah, I guess I could try that.
Edit: Well, I think I'll have to double the size to get a sharp effect, but IMHO that's not worth the extra memory usage. (four times!)
I'll upload a (possibly) better blue effect tomorrow though. If did everything right, the compression shouldn't be too bad for this one.
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Can you make a special flak effect for the Shivens? I really don’t think the Shivens would use the same type of flak weaponry that the Terrans and Vasudens use. I always thought they would launch unstable masses of energy at their targets. Kinda like what the convonetnt seemed to use in the Halo 2 trailer.
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Blue flak is teh noes. But that orange one is hot. Goregeous. Stunning!
Now we need alot more explosions :p
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Originally posted by Jonathan_S47
Can you make a special flak effect for the Shivens? I really don’t think the Shivens would use the same type of flak weaponry that the Terrans and Vasudens use. I always thought they would launch unstable masses of energy at their targets. Kinda like what the convonetnt seemed to use in the Halo 2 trailer.
I've created this already. It will be used in Inferno Release 2.
You're free to use it after the release. ;)
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Ok, I've redone the blue one.
It's really blue now. ;)
Just like this plasma stuff is supposed to look like.
I think I kinda start to understand how the DXT compression works. Well, it didn't lose as much quality as the other blue one this time. ;)
http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/flak_blue2_EFF.rar
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Dabrain can you resizing the flak effect ? They are a little tiny.
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A lot of the new explosions may be no smaller, but take up less space on their respective frames in order to make them more detailed. The new explosions (which I still don't like, the original had more character IMHO, and were actually balanced time-wise so that you were hit by the shockwave at approximately the same time as the explosion animation reached your ship). A lot of the recent effects have done something similar. Take the suns, for example (no complaint there, but it is a change) or any of the myriad of glowpoint-like things.
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The time thing didn't change.
Before it was a 25 frame animation with 25 fps.
Now it's a 28 frame animation with 28 fps.
@MetalDestroyer I cannot change the size of the effect by resizing it. I'd have to change tbl values AFAIK.
I'll break mutliplayer support and game balance whith this change. I think it's better to keep their size. BTW, resizing the effect would only make it (potentially) more detailed. But it will also cost more performance and take up more memory. I think double size is enough for now. ;)
@StratComm I agree. The flak exposion was one of the best looking effects in FS2. But it looks rather outdated by now. It's far too pixelated on closeups. And the ANI has a few bugs (cut-off edge, double frames...).
I think I'll completely redo it when I get the time. For this effect should be good enough to 'cover' some of the stock effect's flaws. ;)
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The overall length didn't change, but a steadily-expanding shockwave has been replaced with a wave with two much faster waves. They look ok (though I would prefer something truely pseudo-spherical (circular) to the praxis wave that's there now) but the expansion of the shockwave hitzone and the wave no longer coincide.
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Awsome stuff!
How'd you make the shockwave effects? In Max?
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Nope, all in PS. But I've used a large part of the old effect.
I think ANIs with less than 30 frames can be easily created in PS.
(Well, you can do everything in PS, but sometimes it's easier to use another program. ;) )
I'm going to redo it from the scratch later. ;) I hope I can outclass both the old and the new effect. :)
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Nice.
I'm actually begining work on a flak animation myself.
It will be a mix of a quick explosion followed by black clouds and debris.
I too will be attempting to do it in Photoshop. Luckily I have some pre-made images that I can play around with. :)
Good luck doing a shockwave from scratch. That will be hard work, glad its not me. :p
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Oh, looks like I misunderstood you.
I thought you ment the small shockwave in the flak animation.
The 'real' shockwaves were created in MAX, though I tweaked a few things in PS.
I think the shockwave is pretty good already, so I won't redo it.
The flak ANI was the one I wanted to recreate from the scratch.
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Ahh k.
Still impressive though. Takes a bit of the awe out of making a 100+ frame animation in Photoshop though. :p
Long live flak though! :D
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If you try to add debris, keep in mind black and dark parts will be transparent or invisible!
You'll need to place them infront of a bright part, like the explosions center to make it visible.
I just thought that might help you... ;)
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Aye, already thought of that. :) But thanks anyways.
Idea was to have the debris shimmering in the light of the explosion. So they look like tiny little metal specs etc. :)
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Hm?
New expMissileHit1...
(http://img31.echo.cx/img31/6150/mhitf0wk.jpg)
(http://img31.echo.cx/img31/9256/mhit13wv.jpg)
(http://img31.echo.cx/img31/4329/mhit29io.jpg)
(http://img31.echo.cx/img31/6994/mhit32jn.jpg)
I have to tweak it a bit. It looks a bit too colorful for non-slashing beams...
(http://img31.echo.cx/img31/8800/mhit46wn.jpg)
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Does the beam hit look too big?
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Thats hard to say just looking at the screenshots. Would you mind to post it, so we can try this ingame?
BTW: in your mod starting package there is a cool explosion (i think it´s hit.ani) which looks really great with the TBP missiles.
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I decided to increase the res, but I didn't tweak the frame count up till now. So it takes up more memory than it should.
Also I'm going to cut of the first frame. (For slashing beams.)
I toned down the saturation. So it looks less red.
And it looks like I'll have to tweak the animation speed a bit..
Well, ok, I'll release the wip effect.
http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/expmisslehit_EFF.rar
(http://img107.echo.cx/img107/4563/mhitnewpsd6im.jpg)
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Hmm, in comparison with your other (and IMHO really excellent) stuff i don´t like this one very much. The animation itself is quite nice looking, but it´s stuttering, which make it look not recent.
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Stuttering?
Well, you can try to increase the fps rate. 20 is quite a low rate. Try 24.
I'm going to tweak the effect a bit more though, so you can also wait for the final release.
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I set the framerate to 26. It works better now. What i really like is the smoke poof, after the explosion. The colors could be a bit brighter, more glowing-like. But thats a matter of taste (and i don´t have it, that´s for sure ;-)). I just tested it with the missiles. Maybe you should make this explosion in blue? :lol: ;) Keep it on. Your releases most often mean a step forward to the game.
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Thanks ;)
I'd love to make it more colorful for missile hit animations, but it looks too intense for non-moving beam hits... :(
It works already very well for fighter beams though. ;)
(http://img92.echo.cx/img92/846/effmissh13dw.jpg)
(http://img92.echo.cx/img92/571/screen06972lh.jpg)
Spinning. ;)
(http://img92.echo.cx/img92/6410/screen07117kg.jpg)
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Oh teh clipping :(
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Looks...... funny. :wtf:
These'll be ones that I don't DL. Sorry DaB.
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Where's that read beam from? Inferno?
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Yupp, those shots are from Inferno.
Originally posted by Raa
Looks...... funny. :wtf:
These'll be ones that I don't DL. Sorry DaB.
Please tell me what exactly you don't like about it. It might be handy if you even try the effect.
I'm still working on it and want it to be mass-compatible.
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Come on! I need to know what you don't like about the effect.
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Wow Some nice stuff! :D
My critic (going by the screenshots) is that it seems a little low res. I'm not sure how much can be done considering they are probably dds. It might be an idea to up the res fairly high but give this animation 2 LODs the super high res and a smaller one for distances.
The animation seems pretty good itself, its just that slight bluriness and dds deterioration in quality.
But great work none the less! :D
Another Max product I presume? You should do a tutorial up for some of this stuff mate. :)
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I'm still a noob to MAX. ;)
But this effect is not completely a MAX creation. I start to use more and more software to use all adavantages of each. ;)
I really hope I can afford PS CS anytime. It has some features I that might prove useful. ;)
But back to topic. Thanks for your critic. The res is at 512². I can't go any higher, but I could still use more of the 512² space, to get more pixel informations in there.
Using LODs is not needed for DDS effects. There won't be any slowdown, even for huge animations, as long as there is enough V ram. LOD just use more ram. ;)
Edit: BTW the first shots are still from the 256² version!
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I'm working on a new flak effect now. ;)
(http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/2139/exp2011bt.jpg)
(http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9018/exp2020th.jpg)
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I like the flare effect arround the explosion. I´m looking forward to see it in action.:yes:
Maybe you should add a shockwave to it :lol: :p
No, no, just a joke
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Finalizing some stuff for the media VP.
How do you like this?
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/6479/ps18vx.jpg)
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3724/ps29eq.jpg)
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4893/ps33gk.jpg)
I don't know why, but I'm somehow not really happy with this...
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Le too, it's not perfect as usual.
Try to make some sort of flame + smoke.
The fire effect you add 'll be good for impact, or for sparks effects (for collision like those from Burnout 3/Revenge).
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It's a junkload better than the whit craw we have now, i think it needs to be tweaked a bit in it's inital frames, have it come from a thinner, or more ill-defined jet.
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It's far too bright / long / intense. Tone the whole thing down. The effect is good but there's just too much of it.
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Agreed. Especially when you look at the second shot with a critical eye; you've got this huge plume of flame coming out of the tip end of a spike.
Actually this probably needs to be handled in code though. On capships the size is fine, it's on fighters that there's a problem. I doubt having two seperate animations is the way to go, but there definitely needs to be some distinction between the two (scaling, perhaps?).
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It looks good for flak.
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
It's far too bright / long / intense. Tone the whole thing down. The effect is good but there's just too much of it.
Particle effects are a pain...
There are too many particles right in the beginning and they spread way too fast in the end.
I think the particle output is random anyway, which screws up anything. :mad:
The flak effect is complete now. It looks pretty cool. :)
But it looks awesome for beam hit effect too... now I have to decide. :sigh:
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i say offer it in both forms: beam hit AND flak and let us choose where we want to use it ^^
or use it for both (why not?)
whats it look like when used for beam hit?
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Originally posted by DaBrain
Finalizing some stuff for the media VP.
How do you like this?
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/6479/ps18vx.jpg)
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3724/ps29eq.jpg)
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4893/ps33gk.jpg)
I don't know why, but I'm somehow not really happy with this...
Too sharp IMO.
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I love the sharpness >.>
I say again, is there a way we can see te beam version of this and can we have it offered as both options (beamhit and flak)?
If its too sharp for flak, I say use it for beam hits.
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It is supposed to be plasma, and as such it should disperse and fade out without the sparkies that are there now. It works, but to be honest the flare-to-smoke approach in retail was a bit better suited. The sparks, as has been pointed out a couple of times already, are really better for explosions like flak or beam-hit.
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Actually, yeah, i like the idea of it being clouds of plasma freezing and dispersing (as a result of freezing...superheated plasma, well it wont be plasma anymore if it aint hot!)...stratcomm hit the nail on the head...if it looked like ICE coming out of the ship though it might look somewhat more interesting ^^ but not fire...it always looks funny when you see things "burning" in space --- there are some things about space sim video games that are "wrong" that actually make it feel cooler (like condensed nebulae) --- and there are other things, like burning things as if there is air, which don't XD
*COUGH* Freelancer is extremely guilty of that...the ships burn like matches when they're about to die
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Ok, I think I'll toss that particle effect. There is no way to use it only for special impacts.
Maybe I can do something better with an updated particle system.
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Hey Dab. Though you are not satisfied with your stuff, would you mind to release it. I would really like to see it in action.
BTW: I´m still using some of your creations, which are not in the vp´s (e.g. the missile explosion). They are always a step forward in FSO an way better than the vanilla and (some) new vp-effects.
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I've added the new stuff to the next Media VP.
If you want to play with these effect PM me and I'll send you the link.
I didn't want release anymore stuff right before the MV pack release. Could cause problems if someone doesn't remove it before he installs the MV pack...
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Originally posted by DaBrain
How do you like this?
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4893/ps33gk.jpg)
I don't know why, but I'm somehow not really happy with this...
For me (as with the original plasma thingy), it's the yellowish colour - the more there is of it, the harder it is to digest - in space - due to the atavistic association with fire :)
IMO, a green or blue tint would alienate it enough to make it easier for da brain to accept ;)