Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ace on November 29, 2004, 07:33:12 pm
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http://sg.news.yahoo.com/041128/1/3ovex.html
Another step forward for medicine.
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Awesome. No need to throw away that cord anymore...its a recycling sort of thing. I like it.
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best stem cells are still embyrionic
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Originally posted by Kazan
best stem cells are still embyrionic
Still...take em where you can get them.
Sounds like these cells have their advantages too.
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And you don't have to kill babies to get them.
What... :nervous:
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before this explodes.
embryonic stem cells are beleived to be a better option becase they can become any sort of tisue you may want adult stem cells have had more research done on them and we know how to manipulate them better but it is beleived that emryonic ones may be more versitile and lead to more and better cures, we don't know yet, this is why we want to do research.
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score one for medical science.
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Funny thing about embryonic stem cells is that most of the rats they've been using to experiment with have been getting cancers of various type and dying.
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hey this is a pretty interesting tid bit of news...
but i thought embyrionic stem cell research was outlawed and banned mr bush
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Originally posted by Liberator
Funny thing about embryonic stem cells is that most of the rats they've been using to experiment with have been getting cancers of various type and dying.
and if you actually looked to find out why you'd know this is president bush's fault for imposing that limit to "already established lines"
those "already established lines" are of low quality - and the longer they're around the more contaiminated they become with xenomes - so stuff like this happens and it destroys the ability to do research
furthermore when it's not due to the low quality of the lines it tells them things NOT do to: you learn best from failure
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well he said rats, I don't think the ban extended to rodent cells. but such a vauge statement can could mean anything.
the thing about this I don't get is if embrionic stem cells are useless as they are proposed by some to be, then why ban research on them? all doing reasearch on them would do is make us leave of our own free will without any fus.
meanwhile our medical industry is getting left behind while other nations are alowed to do research getting an edge on the market we may never be able to recupe from.
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that's not the only thing we're getting left behind at
all sciences are suffering in the united states
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Kazan, we are not gonna do this again.
You cannot berate people for upholding their ethics. Even if you disagree with them for whatever caca reason you've come up with.
You're biggest problem Kazan isn't that you don't think, but that you're not introspective enough to realize that you are guilty of what you accuse us of. Christians won't force their faith on you. You however are forcing you're point of view on us. Is that fair in any way? Yes we could go about thing a different way, but we have more on our minds than whether or not some perverts sexual desires are satisfied.
I know you don't believe in any sort of spirituality and that's fine.
But I also know that there is more to our life experience in this universe than the infinitesial span of time between birth and physical death. Be it eternity as an ephemeral wraith, reincarnation or an eternal reward in either heaven or hell, we are far more than the sum of our parts. I feel it in the blackest darkest pit of my soul.
The President believes that abortion is murder. Any decisions he makes concerning materials involved in that act procede from that belief.
Now DROP IT! Or you'll be sorry...
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But christians are forcing their opinions on the rest of us, by saying abortoin should be banned for all people, and stem cells should not be resarched for anyones benefit, or that gays should not marry. When those of us who support the choice are not enforcing our opinions on others, merely allowing them an option meaning that those who dont want to have abortions dont have to get them. Yet christians are making it so that people who do not believe in the same religion still have to abide to the same laws, which is in every way and form ignorant and egotistical and bull headed.
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Christians believe that it(abortion) is murder. One that it is in our power to prevent, so we are duty bound to prevent it.
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Ethics are for fags.
*runs*
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Originally posted by Liberator
Christians believe that it(abortion) is murder. One that it is in our power to prevent, so we are duty bound to prevent it.
And in that sense, take their ethics and push it on others, why dont you prevent it by not having them, instead of keeping everyone from having them? Oh never mind, sily me, should realize how futile it would be to convine you guys to stop forcing your ideas on others, who am i to stop 2000+ years of hard work.
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Oh, on a side note: Can I get a "woo woo" for eymbilical cords?
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Woo Woo!
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Originally posted by Liberator
Christians believe that it(abortion) is murder. One that it is in our power to prevent, so we are duty bound to prevent it.
And what the hell has that got to do with how the rest of us live our lives?
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Aldo, you mean to tell me that if you were walking down the street and saw someone that was fixin to be murdered and had the power to save them you wouldn't?
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Originally posted by Liberator
Aldo, you mean to tell me that if you were walking down the street and saw someone that was fixin to be murdered and had the power to save them you wouldn't?
I told myself to stay out of these debates, since they suck up too much time. Bugger that.
Yeah, I'd save them. BUT: They mother/unborn child link is something completely different. Abortion for medical reasons such as danger to
the mother should never be outlawed, and abortion after rape follows the same logic in my mind. Abortion after failed contraception is in the middle here, but I am leaning bigtime towards the "boss about my own body" movement, were the mother has rights too. Most of the time, if the child is unwanted,(Understatement) it will not get the best youth possible. (/Understatement).
Aborting embryo's with, let's say, Huntington's (Please, do a google on the disease before replying) seems like a good choice, because the child would suffer terribly later.
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Aldo: come on, surely you can see. The practice of one's beliefs affects the rest of the world, that is a given.
And, funnily enough, telling them not to force their beliefs on you is attempting to force your beliefs on them.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Aldo, you mean to tell me that if you were walking down the street and saw someone that was fixin to be murdered and had the power to save them you wouldn't?
And if you saw there was a treatment which could lead to the cure of Alzheimers, cancer, paralysis, heart disease which involved the use of otherwise discarded embryonic cells. you'd stop it?
You're trying to make it sound like there is a big factory farm of embryos being bred specifically for stem cells, which is complete and utter emotive bull**** - and you know it.
This has nothing to do with the issue of abortion - you want an analogy, how about the use of organs for transplant after a person dies?
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I know you don't believe in any sort of spirituality and that's fine.
But I also know that there is more to our life experience in this universe than the infinitesial span of time between birth and physical death. Be it eternity as an ephemeral wraith, reincarnation or an eternal reward in either heaven or hell, we are far more than the sum of our parts. I feel it in the blackest darkest pit of my soul.
Well, Liberator, right there's the problem. I respect your belief, but there's a reason that I respect it: Nobody knows who's right. I happen to believe quite the opposite, that everything that happens in the universe is an accident of random chance and that what you see is what you get. Neither one of us has the greater claim to validity, and that's the point. Simply the fact that there are people who believe the way you do, the way I do, and every possible conclusion in between means that nobody can go making laws based on his or her spiritual philosophy.
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Can't we all just be happy for that woman who was cured from paralysis and *not* drag this into a religion debate?
I guess not. :sigh:
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What she said.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
You're trying to make it sound like there is a big factory farm of embryos being bred specifically for stem cells, which is complete and utter emotive bull**** - and you know it.
Not yet maybe, but if a broadbased treatment is found and embryonic stem cells become a hot commodity, I can it happening.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Aldo: come on, surely you can see. The practice of one's beliefs affects the rest of the world, that is a given.
And, funnily enough, telling them not to force their beliefs on you is attempting to force your beliefs on them.
Thats like saying my belief is to bash you upside the head, and you not allowing me to do so is infringing on my belief.
He can just practice his beliefs by him himself not having an abortion, although the need should never arise in the first place... i'd hope.
And Lib, that person bout to get murdered is not ****ing attached to the other persons insides, draining them of nutrients and being a general parasite, which babys are. Again that is like you bout to shoot me for bitting onto your arm, not letting go, and sucking the blood out of you slowly for a period of 9 months, you should have a right to put a bullet through my face, not be forced by law to allow me to stay there, causing you pain and threatening your well being.
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*grumbles*
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nothing can be considered a legal entity in the eyes of a court until it's an individual
ngtmr1 please continue to prove that you don't know what you're talking about
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Meh, well, in that case, isn't invading a country and deposing it's leader forcing your beliefs on people too? After all, Saddam was limiting these peoples choices with what he believed.
Saying 'We want you to obey Christian values and trying to stop us forcing them on you is breaching our rights' is a rather odd statement.
Anyway, good on the Woman, I'm glad this is doing some people some good already :D
Edit : In a way, it's like Pro-life people being against stem cell research. They would rather force several unwanted babies into the world than allow research to find ways to help the thousands of wanted babies that may suffer in the future. Pro-life is a very strong statement, but Life is not just Here and Now ;)
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Originally posted by Liberator
Not yet maybe, but if a broadbased treatment is found and embryonic stem cells become a hot commodity, I can it happening.
Un-specialised stem cells = unlimeted growth using the right nutrients.
They only need to find the correct stemlines, and then they'll have enough for a long, long time. And when that ain't enough, they can get back to using left-overs. (No offence.)
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Originally posted by Tiara
Can't we all just be happy for that woman who was cured from paralysis and *not* drag this into a religion debate?
I guess not. :sigh:
I'm very happy for this person. I'm not happy that Liberator and his 'imaginary bearded friend' are trying to stop this kind of research from happening.
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Why am I getting a headache?
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Originally posted by Liberator
Not yet maybe, but if a broadbased treatment is found and embryonic stem cells become a hot commodity, I can it happening.
Well, in the astonishingly unlikely event it does happen, then that would be dealt with accordingly by legislation.
Otherwise it's a bit like banning electricity because someone will eventually figure out how to make a taser.
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Unfortunately for you, they have a right to try and force their beliefs on you. It's called free speech. You have a right to try and force your beliefs on them too. But only to a point. Go construct an extremist version of my argument if you wish, but that's a logical fallacy and I refuse to play that game.
I understand far better then you seem to realize, Kazan. You are attempt to change Liberator's or Mongoose's mind on the subject, so that their beliefs match your own, yes? Yet they do not want that. Thus, you are attempting to force your beliefs on them.
Is that simple enough for you to understand?
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How can you possibly debate a subject without showing your own beliefs? It's impossible - you have to state both your own belief or opinion, and demonstrate why you disagree with the other person.
In that case, any arguement can be said to be forcing your opinion on someone.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
How can you possibly debate a subject without showing your own beliefs? It's impossible - you have to state both your own belief or opinion, and demonstrate why you disagree with the other person.
In that case, any arguement can be said to be forcing your opinion on someone.
Exactly. I am not trying to prove anyone is not trying to force their beliefs on anyone else. I am trying to prove Kazan's charges ludicrous.
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Originally posted by Falcon
Why am I getting a headache?
Probably due to this boards high percentage of turning any topic into a religious or political debate.