Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazan on November 30, 2004, 09:33:32 pm
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=5&u=/latimests/20041130/ts_latimes/campusesmaybarmilitaryrecruiters
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Frankly, I don't really care about all the gay and lesbian stuff, but this is great news. The military has no place in schools.
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Yeah, I read about this in the paper. Quite encouraging.
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I'm not okay with this. The military needs to be able to distribute funds as they need to facilitate recruitment. If they're not getting recruits from one institution they need to be able to move funds to an institution where they are.
All this is, is an attack on the military.
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The military has no place in institutions of education. You can call that an attack on the military if you want, but many people including me are not comfortable with the military trying to recruit people from college campuses.
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The recruitment techniques are border-line propaganda, and quite often cross that line. Kids are especially impressionable and I for one do not think that they ought to be indoctrinated with jingoist rhetoric any more than they already are.
I guess this all depends on your view of the military.
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To me, Military = bad. Keep the recruiters out of the schools. kthanx...
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We have recruiters for the army, navy, marines etc in my public high school all the time.
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liberator look at the basis of the judgement (hint: 1st ammend) and then call it bad
if you do so you PROVE you are a fascist
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Well, I see it as necessary for them to be able to recruit on campuses. Mainly because the military needs a pool of educated officers and the schools and the best source for that. Additionally, students have an right from a common sense POV to know all the options availiable to them, and restricting recruiters because you[universities] don't like their policies is idiotic. Additionally, I am willing to bet they still would let them on campuses even if the military changed their minds about homosexuals.
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in otherwords once again it's Redmenace "i don't give a rats ass about individuals/institutions rights" the fascist in denial
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:lol:
Honestly that comment isn't worth my time.
But additionally, about the law schools, well educated JAG officers are also a must.
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well redmenace - those schools still have their rights to say "your organization violates our antidescrimination policies and therefore you're not welcome on our property"
SINCE IT IS PRIVATE FREAKING PROPERTY - or is there no such thing as private property anymore if it's "in the interest of national security"
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redmenace: at career fairs and the like, sure. But giving them a permanent presence on campus or allowing them greater rights than any other recruiter is playing favourites and promoting the military above other career choices.
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well fine don't allow them the ability to have offices on campus. probably more efficient for the military in that regaurd to have offices off campus anyway. But they should be allow to come to career fairs and setup a booth where that is permitted. But they should not be shut out.
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Finally - those fu[color=23123][/color]cking fags and queers did something good for a change!
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the government give monie to the schools under some conditions one of these is that the military can come in and recruit, the school can choose to ban the military from there campuses for whatever reason they like but they can't turn around and ***** when the government cuts funding, becase 'the government'~= 'the military'. it's like haveing some evangelist groupe paying to prostolatise in the halls, and then you kick them out becase there anoying, but you demand that they keep paying you anyway.
now as for the military not belonging in these schools to begin with/recruiting stuff other bull, in my school we have a recruiting booth set up every other week if you'r stupid enough to get talked into joining the military then you probly don't belong in collage to begin with. comeon, we're not talking childeren here, they are adults, they can manage to say no, or they should be able to anyway.
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I don't think there is an ounce of, well, morality in effectively bribing schools to allow military recruiters in....
From what I can tell, it's not even bribery but punishment; it only refers to the withdrawal of funds if the school refuses to allow recruiters in.
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up till now nobody has thought to do it, so it hasn't been an issue.
I don't see what the problem is, what's more important to you, the gay rights issue, or public funding, I honestly don't see how gay rights is going to be taken seriusly if every time the establishment does something the activists start crying like this. if that's the issue than you just had a victory, you kicked them out, now it just a matter of a battle of wills, but no you've gota *****.
crap I'm incoherant tonight.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
up till now nobody has thought to do it, so it hasn't been an issue.
I don't see what the problem is, what's more important to you, the gay rights issue, or public funding, I honestly don't see how gay rights is going to be taken seriusly if every time the establishment does something the activists start crying like this. if that's the issue than you just had a victory, you kicked them out, now it just a matter of a battle of wills, but no you've gota *****.
crap I'm incoherant tonight.
It's not the whole gay rights thing that affects my opinion in this, I just don't like the principle of allowing the military such access to schools.... can I ask, is there any parallel arrangement to allow other state funded 'employers' such as the police, fire service, etc recruitng access to schools?
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Hmmmmmmmmm... I seem to recall a thread not too long ago about how detatching funding from the Scouts was right because they refused to stop swearing alleigance to God. Which was the right thing to do.
I suppose this is one of those horrid horrid situations that, for want of a better word 'liberals' (and I include myself in that bracket) absolutely dread. We have to allow for freedom of view, even if that view if that view is totally negative to our own beliefs.
If you cannot be a soldier because you are gay, that is not the fault of those who are at school with you, are not gay, and who wish to join the army. The danger to civil rights lay in the Power not in People.
While I can understand this as a protest against those very rules, It seems to me that restructing options to those who would choose it, even as a kind of Academic 'Natural Selection' is not promoting freedom of expression or choice, it's just a kickback.
I suppose the Righteous thing to do is exactly what has been done, but I find myself wondering what the Right thing to do would be?
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Originally posted by Flipside
Hmmmmmmmmm... I seem to recall a thread not too long ago about how detatching funding from the Scouts was right because they refused to stop swearing alleigance to God. Which was the right thing to do.
I suppose this is one of those horrid horrid situations that, for want of a better word 'liberals' (and I include myself in that bracket) absolutely dread. We have to allow for freedom of view, even if that view if that view is totally negative to our own beliefs.
If you cannot be a soldier because you are gay, that is not the fault of those who are at school with you, are not gay, and who wish to join the army. The danger to civil rights lay in the Power not in People.
While I can understand this as a protest against those very rules, It seems to me that restructing options to those who would choose it, even as a kind of Academic 'Natural Selection' is not promoting freedom of expression or choice, it's just a kickback.
I suppose the Righteous thing to do is exactly what has been done, but I find myself wondering what the Right thing to do would be?
The right thing? Probably not to cut any funding, and restrict the military to recruiting (in school) at the same time as other organisations do. If the US government feels schools have to be used for some sort of federal recruiting tank, then at least make sure the military isn't the only public body recruiting. As it stands it looks almost like a shoddy attempt to emotionally press-gang students.
From what I can tell, the 'military' is not giving extra funding, etc, to be allowed into schools; funding is being removed if the military is now allowed in. i.e. 'let the military in or you lose your funding'.
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True enough, I do understand it as a protest vote. If the government is working against discrimination for race and religion they should be working equally hard for all civil liberties.
However, I still don't see any of the people who are responsible for this state of affairs suffering in any way from losing what applicants they would gain from a liberal Law school. It is a very proud and noble thing to do, and speaks volumes of the nobleness of human spirit et al, but it achieves bugger all.
The right thing to do would have been to continue to allow these people the right to recruit, whilst equally exercising your right not to volunteer. You could even make an issue of the fact that you are doing so in the name of Liberalism and make yourself a martyr. Same press, more funding ;)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
is there any parallel arrangement to allow other state funded 'employers' such as the police, fire service, etc recruitng access to schools?
I think there is, I seem to recal something like this, but the little booths out in the hall are easily ignored.
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EDIT; never mind
I think this whole US education system thing is just to bizarre for me to even try to understand.
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I always try and help the police by beating myself up, and throwing myself down flights of stairs etc....
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well I don't think there is a) any objection to it b) much demand, so I'm not sure 'force' would be the right word. I think I've seen police and fire department booths a couple of times. though honestly I'm not sure. I would imagine they have a similar araingment. (I know for a fact that there were DNC and RNC booths around the time of the election)
prety much anyone who wants to get a thing for recruiting people can (other schools use this more than anything else), sence the government is paying these schools (federal funding) it seems only fair that they be given one or two as well.
anyway, the millitary booths are always a good place to find some school suplies if your out :)
"you ready to be all you can be?"
"no, I just need a pencil" /*yanks complmentery pencil from baskit*/
my experience with military recrutment was them bothering me for about a week, me going down to there building makeing it clear that I didn't want to join and never hearing from them again.
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Well, not everyone has the willpower/intelligence to keep fending them off.
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The military doesn't exert much effort in areas like mine. They know that people living in affluent suburbs are going to go to college because it's an option we can afford. The ranks of the military are largely filled with people who have been totally screwed on the socioeconomic scale. I'm actually a little surprised that they were trying that hard to get recruits in law schools to begin with.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
well I don't think there is a) any objection to it b) much demand, so I'm not sure 'force' would be the right word. I think I've seen police and fire department booths a couple of times. though honestly I'm not sure. I would imagine they have a similar araingment. (I know for a fact that there were DNC and RNC booths around the time of the election)
prety much anyone who wants to get a thing for recruiting people can (other schools use this more than anything else), sence the government is paying these schools (federal funding) it seems only fair that they be given one or two as well.
anyway, the millitary booths are always a good place to find some school suplies if your out :)
"you ready to be all you can be?"
"no, I just need a pencil" /*yanks complmentery pencil from baskit*/
my experience with military recrutment was them bothering me for about a week, me going down to there building makeing it clear that I didn't want to join and never hearing from them again.
They're allowed to approach you directly?
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'Are you ready to be all you can be?'
The correct answer is to say 'Yes, watch....' and then walk off.
It'll take 'em ages to figure it out ;)
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Charity bucketeers are the best:
Charity Bucket Guy: Got any change?
an0n: Yeah - loads - and yer gettin' none of it.
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That show the differnce between American culture and European culture. Most Americans can't walk by a Bell Ringer or equivalent without donating, and if they don't they usually feel guilty. Target sucks, BTW.
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Yeah, but America has more to feel guilty about.
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STFU u n00b!
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Rather than comment on the staggering intellect displayed by Liberator's post, I'll instead ask a question:
Why, precisely, are they trying to recruit in a college? The logical time to recruit would be as a junior or senior in high school. As the students in that age group have not yet payed large amounts of money to colleges that would be wasted by enlisting, and they have the options of ROTC or the academies, which are the only ways to become officers other than being promoted from an NCO, which is relevant the Judge Advocate General's office is mainly composed of officers.
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That's what I was wondering, too. How many law students are going to see the recruiters and say "OMFG law sux0rz I wanna blow **** up!!!!11111"
That show the differnce between American culture and European culture. Most Americans can't walk by a Bell Ringer or equivalent without donating, and if they don't they usually feel guilty.
Ummmm, okay. :wtf:
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Originally posted by Liberator
That show the differnce between American culture and European culture. Most Americans can't walk by a Bell Ringer or equivalent without donating, and if they don't they usually feel guilty. Target sucks, BTW.
I'm guessing you've not been to europe, then?
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Originally posted by Liberator
That show the differnce between American culture and European culture. Most Americans can't walk by a Bell Ringer or equivalent without donating, and if they don't they usually feel guilty. Target sucks, BTW.
liberator yet again demonstrating the vast knowledge the average american has of other cultures!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I know that most of European culture is collasping under it own PC worthlessness.
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And you must also know that we could go back and forth with that forever as soon as I say that American culture is collapsing under its own yahooistic, chest-beating "I-dun-need-no-intelekshhooal" worthlessness.
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Put simply: America will be no better than Russia in a few years and Europe will be a solid mass of states dedicated to making my life even more opulent while you rot in the gutter.
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*offers round popcorn*
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NO UNITED STATESIAN SNACK FOODS!
You are to eat CRISPS and battered Mars bars.
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Originally posted by Liberator
I know that most of European culture is collasping under it own PC worthlessness.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Originally posted by aldo_14
They're allowed to approach you directly?
not sure what you mean exactly, if you make eye contact with them they'll start there sales pitch, but if they wen't chaiseing after anybody who wen't be they wouldn't get a whole lot done (it's three people sitting at a table with a bunch of pamflets and papers and pencils and key chains and crap), generaly they just sit there talking to each other. today was a busy day for the recruitment booths, there were about seven of them set up around the cafeteria, and there were two military booths (this is fairly unusual) one was marines the other was, army, I think... the rest of them were schools and job offers.
now, when I say booth, maybe I'm drawing the wrong picture, its a 2X8 foot table maybe with a cloth over top/front of it with a logo or something on the front of it with one to four people sitting behind it. no one has ever been a problem, though there was once a christian group that had one, and it got anoying haveing to say no to them every time I walked by and they offered a bible.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
though there was once a christian group that had one, and it got anoying haveing to say no to them every time I walked by and they offered a bible.
take one and light it on fire. i would have a few times if i had a lighter on me.
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no lighter, though I guess I could have touched it to my physics book.
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that would be like a matter/am reaction
damn... that was nerdy
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Originally posted by Bobboau
no lighter, though I guess I could have touched it to my physics book.
And this is a problem why? :p
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I always feel guilty and take their Bible/pamphlet/revolutionary new window cleaning product.
For some reason, you can guilt-trip me into listeniing to you if you only sound desperate enough. Telemarketers and homeless people needless to say love this.
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All this is, is an attack on the military.
That is one of the biggest loads of crap I have ever heard from you. The military descriminates against people for WHAT they are, and many people have problems with that. Open your eyes, and free your mind.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
not sure what you mean exactly, if you make eye contact with them they'll start there sales pitch, but if they wen't chaiseing after anybody who wen't be they wouldn't get a whole lot done (it's three people sitting at a table with a bunch of pamflets and papers and pencils and key chains and crap), generaly they just sit there talking to each other. today was a busy day for the recruitment booths, there were about seven of them set up around the cafeteria, and there were two military booths (this is fairly unusual) one was marines the other was, army, I think... the rest of them were schools and job offers.
now, when I say booth, maybe I'm drawing the wrong picture, its a 2X8 foot table maybe with a cloth over top/front of it with a logo or something on the front of it with one to four people sitting behind it. no one has ever been a problem, though there was once a christian group that had one, and it got anoying haveing to say no to them every time I walked by and they offered a bible.
Ah, yes. Sometimes have both of those (when I was) at uni, usually they were only allowed out in the open on the first day of term and their only other opportunities were in an defined space for careers fair,etc.
Originally posted by Liberator
I know that most of European culture is collasping under it own PC worthlessness.
What in the name of **** are you on about? Or is this more rubbish being spouted on the basis that because a particular continent doesn't share your particular little moral code (you presume....), it must be 'collapsing'?
I mean, the monumental idiocy of that statement is just astonishing.
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aldo: your question about the basis of liberator's comment
Yes