Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: pyro-manic on December 03, 2004, 06:49:24 am
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OK, I dunno how interested you'll be in this, but here's an email I had today:
PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY, POST TO LISTS AND DISCUSSIONS, AND LINK TO WEBSITES
***EMERGENCY APPEAL FROM NAOMI KLEIN TO SUPPORT THE ZANON WORKERS IN PATAGONIA***
(Para versión en español ver abajo)
(La traduzione in italiana si trova giù)
Dear Friends,
We’re writing to ask your help in defending an inspiring and courageous
workers’ struggle in Argentina.
The Zanon ceramic tile factory, a democratic, worker-run factory in Patagonia,
is facing a serious threat of eviction, and the workers have asked us to
gather international support for their struggle.
To sign the petition, please click here:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/zanon/petition.html
And for more information, read on...
For those of you who have seen our documentary, The Take, the Zanon factory,
and Argentina’s wider movement of worker-run companies will be very familiar.
For those of you who haven’t, this new movement of some 15,000 workers
in almost 200 democratic workplaces is building hope and a concrete economic
alternative in the rubble of Argentina’s disastrous experiment with orthodox
neoliberalism in the 1990s.
Recovered companies are run by assembly: one worker, one vote. In most
of them, workers have decided that everyone should receive the same salary.
They are proving the viability of an economy run on an entirely different
value system, and they are growing.
In the past year, Zanon has increased its workforce from 300 to 450: a
50% increase. What multinational corporation or national government could
boast of such a dramatic rise in decent-paying employment in the middle
of an economic crisis?
And Zanon has cultivated a deep and mutual relationship with the surrounding
community. For 20 years, the poor neighbourhood of Nueva España, across
the highway from the factory, has been asking the provincial government
for a health clinic. Zanon workers took a vote earlier this year, and in
3 months built and opened a brand new community health facility.
But now the provincial government is threatening to send in the Gendarmeria
to remove Zanon’s precious machines. This is an illegal order, since this
force is Federal, intended to police Argentina’s borders. On a second front,
the Federal judge presiding over the bankruptcy of the former owner is
refusing to recognize the Zanon workers’ co-operative (called FaSinPat
– short for ‘Fabricas Sin Patrones’, Factories Without Bosses.)
The former owner received millions in public subsidies, and still amassed
a huge debt and bankruptcy: he has since been removed from his own board
of directors for “accounting irregularities”. The workers’ co-operative,
on the other hand, is a major success: it is now producing 380,000 square
meters of ceramic tiles a month – a level of production higher than when
the former owner closed the factory - and the workers do it without the
huge public subsidies (300,000 pesos per month) that he used to receive.
The Zanon workers have told us that a massive international petition in
support of their struggle could make a key difference with the various
levels of courts and governments.
Zanon’s highly successful combination of direct action and direct democracy
is a precious example of that other world that is possible, that is growing
before our very eyes.
We urge you to sign the petition
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/zanon/petition.html
and do everything you can to encourage others to do the same.
Thank you for your time and support!
Avi Lewis and Naomi Klein
I think this is an excellent example of the way businesses should be run, and is very deserving of support. If you want to, then sign the petition at the link and tell people you know about it. Also feel free to post your thoughts. Should make a change from the usual rants we get into over serious issues.
Cheers!
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Don't they (Naomi Klein and Avi Lewis) have a new movie about this? I was going to go when it was showing in Toronto, but I read it was **** despite the subject matter.
the uhm, The Take
here http://www.nfb.ca/thetake/
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Yeah, that's the one. Hadn't heard anything about it, but it'll probably never show near me anyway....
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****ing commies.
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ROTFLMAO! :lol:
Anyone read Ayn Rand?
BTW-Scam? Could likely be [or NO].
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Originally posted by an0n
****ing commies.
Yup.
Beowulf: It's just a petition. They're asking for support, not money.
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They're asking for support now.
In a few months they'll be asking for money, what with them becoming a high-profile case and all.
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They don't need money. They want to tell the government to **** off and stop trying to take away their equipment for no good reason. They're making a load of money on their own.
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That's not communism; that's democracy in action and in its purest form. Best of luck to these guys.
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Communism == sucky, pie-in-the-sky Economic system
Democracy == an imperfect, but still the best realistic choice for government
Communism usually accompanies some form of dictatorship and Democracy can only function with a capitalistic economic model.
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That's just wrong.
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Although one could argue that democracy is also pie-in-the-sky, since on a large scale a true democracy is useless.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Communism == sucky, pie-in-the-sky Economic system
Democracy == an imperfect, but still the best realistic choice for government
Communism usually accompanies some form of dictatorship and Democracy can only function with a capitalistic economic model.
Dictatorship is the inverse of communism; that's what happens when the idea is corrupted. Really, communism should be the ultimate form of democracy - but since it relies upon an equality not present (some people will always be smarter, harder working, etc), it's never really worked as a governmental system.
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Now there I must disagree. Capitalism, for all its flaws, is the economic system most conducive to freedom. As long as someone can tell me what to do with my money/time, I'm not free.
Yeah, communism might in theory produce equality, but at the price of individual freedom. And it has yet to produce even equality.
The way I see it, capitalism allows for any group of people to pursue any economic system, as long as they force it on no one else. Voluntary association, and the free exchange of goods between consenting individuals.
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Well, I did say should. If it actually worked we'd all be doing it.
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It's a elegant, if ultimately flawed, concept that has only worked on a small scale. Incidentally, the same is true for democracy.
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Democracies worked?! :eek:
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Benign dictatorship is the way forward. One man, one vote - the dictator is the man, and he gets the vote. Of course, leadership change is determined by stabbing, but it's as good a system as I can come up with in 30 seconds.....
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Yes, democracy worked quite well on Ancient Greece, especially on Athens...
The happiest countries so far are those that managed to apply well socialdemocracy and keynesian theories.
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Yeah, democracy "worked" in Athens, it worked splendidly for the 1/3 of the population who weren't slaves. I'm not so sure the rest of the population thought so highly of it.
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I agree, but yet it was the best thing humanity got until the french revolution...
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I think every year, a countries leader should be suspended over a vat of Sulphuric Acid. People can vote whether to let him go or not. It means that they are more concerned about the public, and that Politics is only for those the really mean it ;)
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I was really thinking more along the lines of the random small communities founded throughout history designed to use communism and/or democracy, without much thought to the outside world.
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How many good people with less than excellent speaking skills would that kill?
You forget about populism...
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Indeed, I also forgot that most governmental decisions are not made by one man alone ;)
To be honest, I don't actually want to suspend members of government over vats of Sulphuric acid..... well.... not all of them ;)
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A more effective mean would be a system where they would be rewarded or punished proportionally to the results they get...
If they do bad then they'll start loosing their own assets...
That should give a boost to do the right thing...
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The Aztecs and Incas did perfectly fine with a dictatorial theocracy for thousands of years.
Infact, if it weren't for smallpox, democracy probably wouldn't have become so widespread.
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The way I see it, capitalism allows for any group of people to pursue any economic system, as long as they force it on no one else. Voluntary association, and the free exchange of goods between consenting individuals.
But groups of people don't function in isolated economic microcosms. Everybody is part of the same system. And while I think a free market is the best setup, there are major dangers for which I don't think America has succeeded in compensating. Some people get royally screwed with no way out. Plus, businesses will glob together to form forces so powerful they might as well be their own nations, and the government, which is supposed to be working for the general population, becomes the ***** of rich people.