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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on December 05, 2004, 11:04:12 am

Title: Is it just me...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 05, 2004, 11:04:12 am
But wouldn't bombers make a lot more 'sense' scale wise if they were 2-man?  Because  if you scale even a fairly large person to 'em', there's still a lot of room in the cockpit.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: pyro-manic on December 05, 2004, 11:10:57 am
I dunno. All FS ships have cockpits that seem way too big. Look at something like a Tornado, which is a similar size to some FS fighters, and compare the canopy sizes. FS ships are incredibly massive, so I think they'd probably look a bit odd if they had canopies similar to current aircraft. You could probably fit 3 or 4 people in the bigger bombers - the Ursa is IIRC 40+ metres long. That's pushing airliner size, so you could have a large crew in them easily....
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: karajorma on December 05, 2004, 11:14:23 am
Who says they aren't? Maybe the second in the players bomber is just under the same radio silence orders that Alpha 1 has :D
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 05, 2004, 11:21:49 am
No, the fighters are more or less ok.  Roomy, admittedly, but ok.  But the bombers are sodding huge, I've discovered.... if you don't have 2 pilots then you end up with either a stupidly tiny looking cockpit or a near-empty one.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Marauder on December 05, 2004, 11:38:23 am
I remember reading in the FS Reference bible about how Lt. Ash was in a two man bomber...and he died..heh...I agree, it would make more sense scale wise...notice while flying along an Orion you can do it pretty damn quickly! :D
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: phatosealpha on December 05, 2004, 10:11:28 pm
Perhaps the cockpits are so large because they need extra equipment in them to keep the pilot at full awareness/conscious/alive when jumping into subspace or doing things like 40 G turns with afterburners full attempting to avoid the impending shockwave of a detonating destroyer?

Personally, I'd like to imagine that they're roomy so they can function as escape pods, but that's primarily to ease my conscience about losing every single wingman I've ever been assigned.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: FireCrack on December 05, 2004, 11:55:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by phatosealpha
Perhaps the cockpits are so large because they need extra equipment in them to keep the pilot at full awareness/conscious/alive when jumping into subspace or doing things like 40 G turns with afterburners


In a bomber but not a fighter?
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Carl on December 06, 2004, 01:15:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by phatosealpha
Perhaps the cockpits are so large because they need extra equipment in them to keep the pilot at full awareness/conscious/alive when jumping into subspace or doing things like 40 G turns with afterburners full attempting to avoid the impending shockwave of a detonating destroyer?


Freespace fighters are slower than WWII fighters. i doubt one could ever come close to 40 G's.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Liberator on December 06, 2004, 01:21:23 am
And like WW2 aircraft, they need frelling huge canopies to keep track of the enemy.  It's also quite possible that there are co-pilots in the bombers, but AFAIK, it's SOP for the pilot to handle all official radio communication with the CIC/TIC/Air Boss.  The rio just watches the guages, watches for enemies, and help keeps the pilot focused during combat.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Mongoose on December 06, 2004, 01:43:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Marauder
I remember reading in the FS Reference bible about how Lt. Ash was in a two man bomber...and he died..heh...I agree, it would make more sense scale wise...notice while flying along an Orion you can do it pretty damn quickly! :D

Was Ash's ship a bomber?  I seem to remember that it looked almost identical to an Apollo, if it actually wasn't; it certainly wasn't any of the bombers in the game.  If it was an Apollo, and not a bomber, that might lend some credence to the copilot theory.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Andreas on December 06, 2004, 05:52:11 am
Check the FS1 intro, Lt.Ash has a co-pilot in his Apollo, on the back, but he's dead. There are also some renderings of the Apollo cockpit done, which clearly show that there indeed is a place for a co-pilot. Maybe he handles the communications or somesuch.

http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cockpit/cok06.jpg

This one is definately from the backseat:
http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cockpit/cok13.jpg

I could post more, but check the page yourself.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 06, 2004, 05:59:42 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose

Was Ash's ship a bomber?  I seem to remember that it looked almost identical to an Apollo, if it actually wasn't; it certainly wasn't any of the bombers in the game.  If it was an Apollo, and not a bomber, that might lend some credence to the copilot theory.


The ref bible states Ash is "in one of the two-man bombers"; it's never referred to there as being an Apollo (despite the obvious similarity; it's virtually identical).  Either the concept for the Apollo class/role wasn't finalised when the cutscene was written, or it is supposed to be some form of variant.

Albeit I don't really understand why you'd send a bomber wing on a routine patrol, rather than interceptors or scout fighters.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Striker on December 06, 2004, 08:29:43 am
I think they probably just changed it from bomber to fighter. The GT(V)A rarely does variants; the only one we've seen IIRC is Artemis DH and it stayed a bomber.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 06, 2004, 09:06:47 am
True, but we also know the Fs games don't - can't - show every ship in operation by the GTVA.  The Angel scout, for example.  So i think it's possible an Apollo varient could have been used alongside the 'heavy' Athena during the 14-year war.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 06, 2004, 01:35:19 pm
I suspect a big bit of it is pilot comfort, making those long pointless patrols more bearable.

And maybe they were nice enough to actually give the bomber pilots a toilet, instead of some "relief tube" rig.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: karajorma on December 06, 2004, 02:19:36 pm
Considering that Kappa 3 survived in the nebula for weeks they probably have a kitchen and sleeping area in the back of the fighters :D
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Striker on December 06, 2004, 06:11:25 pm
Yeah what was up with him living through that? How did he not run out of supplies/get blown to hell by Shivans?
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 06, 2004, 06:18:58 pm
Hibernation.  They cross-breed humans with hamster genes for longevity; it's in the ref bible, page 40.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: FireCrack on December 06, 2004, 06:23:54 pm
kappa 3 probably had emergency rations or somthing. I'm preeety sure they stock the fighters with things like that in the case of getting lost/havinc a crash landing. Like the hercules in the intro.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Striker on December 06, 2004, 06:32:28 pm
And to think, that herc pilot's little hologram gizmo lasted for 35 years...
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: JR2000Z on December 06, 2004, 06:46:37 pm
I think we all know what they were really doing away from the patrol group :D
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Fergus on December 07, 2004, 12:10:05 pm
Yes, being constantly attacked by evil (sorry Carl) Shivans.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Roanoke on December 07, 2004, 03:21:58 pm
you'd think he'd get cramp from sitting a cockpit for days on end
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 07, 2004, 04:06:45 pm
If Kappa 3 survived constant attacks from Shivans for weeks, then he makes Alpha 1 look like somebody just entering flight school.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Flaser on December 07, 2004, 04:40:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Striker
And to think, that herc pilot's little hologram gizmo lasted for 35 years...


We can already do it.

Let's say it together: NUCLEAR POWER.

Actually the US Army just started to use it - Beta-isotope nuclear powersources. These only emit beta radiation - which is practically electricity since beta particles are electrons.

With such a powersource a mobile phone could function for 30-40 years without refueling. Of course it's low voltage, but it will still last a damn long time.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: FireCrack on December 07, 2004, 07:21:25 pm
Speaking of that little hologram, what the hell is the point of the image on it? it's liek a buisnessman and his wife.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Goober5000 on December 07, 2004, 07:26:11 pm
Maybe it's him and his wife.  Or his parents.  It looks like a wedding picture.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: FireCrack on December 07, 2004, 07:48:49 pm
yes it does, but who the hell takes a wedding picture with them on a fighter?
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Yogert on December 07, 2004, 08:01:40 pm
Why not? Think of it as a reminder of what he's fighting for, or merely the assurance that he has someone to go back to had he not been shot down.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: FireCrack on December 07, 2004, 08:04:09 pm
Why not in his quarters though? what the hell does he do with it in his fighter? turn it on in the midst of a dogfight? no wonder the wingmen suck.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Yogert on December 07, 2004, 08:11:14 pm
It's something to look at during long patrols or in subspace before a battle. Something to calm his nerves and whatnot.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Flipside on December 07, 2004, 08:28:11 pm
Might well be a good luck momento. Always chokes me up a bit to see that bit, I always thought it was the pilots spouse and that he died knowing he would never see her again or indeed know if she were alive.....

I suppose the real choker is if you think that hologram of his wife was the last thing he chose or wanted to see before he died.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Japong on December 07, 2004, 08:48:47 pm
At that stage of the war, I doubt anyone was really staying in any one place all that long. In WWII pilots often only owned what they had could carry with them, especially in Britain where airfields and airplanes were bombed regularly. A lot of people would probably keep a couple of small, treasured mementos on their person, like soldiers with letters to their families, things like that.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 08, 2004, 01:03:51 am
It's not hard to understand. People carry photos of their girlfriends or wives with them all the time. Pilots are no different.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on December 08, 2004, 02:13:18 am
I always assumed it was his parents, rather than him and his missus.
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 08, 2004, 03:37:10 am
I think it's more likely to be the missus, myself.  Otherwise why have a wedding 'photo'?
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Liberator on December 08, 2004, 08:23:22 am
Did you ever think it might be his parents?
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Flipside on December 08, 2004, 09:15:01 am
I did think about it, but it was around that point of the Monologue that Bosch mentions the lost generation. The photo has no kids in it. Seems strange, if you wanted a picture of your parents, you'd want one of you with them, I would have thought :)
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: Unknown Target on December 08, 2004, 10:15:23 am
I always thought it was him and his wife. And the monolouge that goes with that one scene is very compelling, methinks :)
Title: Is it just me...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 08, 2004, 01:16:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
Did you ever think it might be his parents?


Nope.  I don't have a piccy of my parents, but even if I did, it would be of some family event rather than their wedding.  Especially as 90% of the time the wedding is likely to be before you were born or at least old enough to remember it.