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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: c914 on December 05, 2004, 02:33:02 pm

Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 05, 2004, 02:33:02 pm
hard to say whati is it..light cruiser or maby hevy bomber. It look this:
(http://c914.w.interia.pl/ob/gthb01.jpg)
(http://c914.w.interia.pl/ob/gthb02.jpg)
(http://c914.w.interia.pl/ob/gthb03.jpg)

and it will be armed with two beams ( one had half power of SGeen ) two torp lunchers that can cary 16 helios is one bank, one missel luncher for trebs ( 36 ) or pirahas ( 30 ). Ship also posses 4 turrets and hasn't got pirmary af gun.

Some size comparision:
(http://c914.w.interia.pl/ob/gthb04.jpg)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: DaBrain on December 05, 2004, 02:45:20 pm
Hmm, looks nice.  
It does look very much like the Star Trek Defiant.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: karajorma on December 05, 2004, 03:01:59 pm
Actually I'd say it's a lost Patcom from I-War II.

Looks great though C914. :yes:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Roanoke on December 05, 2004, 04:07:46 pm
might benefit from the TBP's gunboat AI, if they ever get it.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Corsair on December 05, 2004, 04:25:18 pm
Good lord, that first picture is taking forever to load. Anyway, it looks cool. It vaguely reminds me of that bigass bomber Bobboau made for BWO...
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: FireCrack on December 05, 2004, 04:35:46 pm
This thing has gargantuan amounts of firepower for it's size.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 05, 2004, 05:21:51 pm
The Defiant inspiration is quite obvious, but because of the smoothness, I think that this should be a Vasudan gunship or heavy bomber rather than a Terran design.  My imediate impression when I saw the first image, was the similarities to the GVD Asarte from Inferno.  For additional size comparrisons, could you post an image of it next to Aten, Seraphim, and Osiris?

[Edit]
Are those rear-mounted turrets on either side of the main engines?
[/Edit]
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Roanoke on December 05, 2004, 05:31:06 pm
the nose reminds me of Kushan Heavy Corvettes.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Krackers87 on December 05, 2004, 05:32:27 pm
Pretty sweet ship. :D
Title: excellent!
Post by: Getter Robo G on December 05, 2004, 05:35:24 pm
It looks like a lovechild of the Patcom & the Defiant !!! I love it!
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on December 05, 2004, 05:38:57 pm
Red X shaped ships are pretty cool...
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: SadisticSid on December 05, 2004, 05:40:04 pm
Looks like you've hit your bandwidth limit dude. But I saw it earlier and it looks fantastic. Definitely reminds me of the I-War 2 corvette.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Eviscerator on December 05, 2004, 06:13:35 pm
That thing would be awesome as an attack corvette, and I mean an actual corvette, not what :V: calls a corvette. Terran? Can I get my hands on it? I have need of that very thing.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Bobboau on December 05, 2004, 06:50:03 pm
hmm that thing is about the same size as the Vanir, it also has the cockpit style of a BWO SOL ship
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on December 05, 2004, 07:51:01 pm
Those side mounted gunpoints are icky. No ship larger than a fighter or bomber should ever have those, IMO. Still, 'tis a very good model.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Carl on December 05, 2004, 08:03:46 pm
it looks like what a real corvette would be: between a fighter and a cap ship. most definitely a counterpart to I-war ships.


oh, and here's a new rule: every new model posted must have a polycount given as well :D
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Flipside on December 05, 2004, 08:08:25 pm
Give it turrets and make it an Convoy Escort ship ;) As Carl says, a real Corvette. Something like that with 6-7 AA turrets would be put most pirates off ;)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Rictor on December 05, 2004, 08:26:56 pm
It does look like the Defiant, but if you look at it as if it were a bigass bomber or Vasudan ship, it doesn't really matter.

I really like the design, good work.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: adwight on December 05, 2004, 10:03:16 pm
Looks to me like a Kushan Corvette from Homeworld 1.  I think it looks like a really bigass bomber, not a cruiser.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Grimloq on December 05, 2004, 10:25:41 pm
*approves* VERY nice! :)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Knight Templar on December 05, 2004, 10:45:10 pm
When a Pat-Com and a Defiant love each other..........
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Black Wolf on December 06, 2004, 01:37:18 am
I am impressed. :nod:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 06, 2004, 03:03:04 am
Quote
Are those rear-mounted turrets on either side of the main engines

:nod:

Quote
every new model posted must have a polycount given as well


umm..aa..alright here is pcout:D :
760 for basic model + 200 for turrets, tralinguate is about 2100 for all

Quote
Give it turrets and make it an Convoy Escort ship


That could be second version of ship with 2 aaaf beams, two piracha missle lunchers and 4  other turrets.  Convoy Escort ship could be farster than acap version.

My inspiration of it was drednought from I-War I. I just love dessing of that ship :)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 06, 2004, 03:38:17 am
here is another size comparrisons:
(http://c914.w.interia.pl/ob/gthb05.jpg)

i never realize that Seraphim os soo big. Here is second size comparrisons with bigger GTB Taurus or how should it be GTCv Taurus.
(http://c914.w.interia.pl/ob/gthb06.jpg)
what you thing it is good size or eariler was better?
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Ace on December 06, 2004, 03:55:48 am
Considering how screwed up the FS naming system is, it's definately not a corvette. Neither is it a frigate like the Iceni (between corvette and destroyer)

Gunship sounds lame... so... Monitor?

F- Fighter
B- Bomber
Mn- Monitor
C- Cruiser
Cv- Corvette
Fg- Frigate (NTF Iceni being an exception as 'NTF' is a flagship designation)
D- Destroyer
J- Juggernaut (GTVA Colossus being an exception as 'GTVA' is a flagship designation)

M- Medical
T- Transport
S- Support
Sg- Sentry Gun
Fr- Freighter
G- Gas Miner
I- Installation
Sc- Science Vessel
A- AWACs
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Annorax on December 06, 2004, 04:02:30 am
Gunship sounds better than Monitor, IMO. Although the name does sound good.

GTGs Monitor, anyone?
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 06, 2004, 06:48:50 am
Monitor..are this type of ships had very big fire power and they are slow, something like swiming big gun:doubt:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 06, 2004, 07:03:51 am
Battleship?  Battlecruiser?  Patrol ship? Cutter?

I like it, incidentally.  I've been meaning to toy around with the concept of largish flyable ships for a while (albeit heavily armed transports rather than dedicated warships)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: mitac on December 06, 2004, 07:46:29 am
The White Stars in B5 were classified as "Monitor", as I read several times. So it would fit.

Nice design, btw. I like it much better than your previous projects, C914. :yes:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 06, 2004, 08:30:26 am
i got one of theese
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/gallery/data/media/3/maelstrom.jpg)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Bobboau on December 06, 2004, 08:33:25 am
you and your gatling guns...
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 06, 2004, 08:35:03 am
those are 200mm gatling guns with a fire rate of 25rpm and this thing also carries meson torpedoes. :D
was stealth but that made them impossible to kill.
Title: Re: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 06, 2004, 02:12:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by c914
It will be armed with two beams ( one had half power of SGeen ) two torp lunchers that can cary 16 helios is one bank, one missel luncher for trebs ( 36 ) or pirahas ( 30 ). Ship also posses 4 turrets and hasn't got pirmary af gun.

Does this mean that the beams together add up to 1.5 SGreen in power, or does that mean that each beam is 1.5 SGreen?  Personally, I'd make 'em each about 2 or 3 times as powerful as an Ultra AAA.  Also, it might make it interesting if your beams on this don't pierce shields.

[Edit]
In answering your question, I prefer the larger configuration.
[/Edit]
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 06, 2004, 02:37:06 pm
beams together had power of one SGreen i think it is good.  

Quote
Also, it might make it interesting if your beams on this don't pierce shields.


I was thinking about this.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on December 06, 2004, 02:41:30 pm
I disagree with it's weaponsry. Giving a ship half the size of a Leviathan somewhat smaller versions of SGreens just seems too much, IMO.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Pnakotus on December 06, 2004, 05:40:53 pm
The design is nice, but the whole thing is as un-Freespace as you can get.  Its overgunned, its propbably far too fast and manuveurable (since it should be much worse than an Ursa) and its a big fat sitting target for trebs.

I guess it COULD work if you increased the engines and set the fire axis of the beams to be very narrow, so it had to fight like Defiant.  However, it would still get ****kicked by trebs, so I'm not sure what the role is here.  And how many hp can it possibly have?  Less than 8000, thats for sure.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: SadisticSid on December 06, 2004, 05:56:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by c914
beams together had power of one SGreen i think it is good.  



I was thinking about this.


Well if they don't, they can toast all fighters and bombers instantly. Give it a shield factor of something like 0.03 as well so using the beams against fighters isn't a good option... of course you'll have to technobabble your way out of explaining why beams that can rape capships can't shoot through shields when even SAAA-Weak can ;)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Knight Templar on December 06, 2004, 10:31:14 pm
I think it'd be l33t if you ditched the beams, made it a little smaller, and called it an uber bomber. But that's just me.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Grimloq on December 06, 2004, 10:44:07 pm
Super-Heavy-Assault Bomber (SB, HB, AB, respecitvly)

aldo:

battleship : self sustaining, similar to hecate, but never needs resupplying
battlecruiser : flexible, usually is outfitted for a specific task, but is easy to change that task
patrol ship : flak-monkey quick smaller-than-a-cruiser ship :)

then again, those are the rules that _I_ go by.

[edit] w00t! im a bahka now! :)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Beowulf on December 06, 2004, 11:07:51 pm
Very cool. :yes: :yes:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: pyro-manic on December 06, 2004, 11:11:55 pm
Battleship: very large, heavily armed and armoured. Principal fleet capital ship up until about 1943. Very powerful against other warships, but vulnerable to bomb/torpedo attack from multiple attack craft. Basically a FS destroyer like a Hecate. Shouldn't really have a fighterbay, but that would cause problems...

A battlecruiser is like a battleship, but faster and more lightly armoured. E.g. HMS Hood: Biggest ship in the world until the yanks built the Iowas, 15-inch guns, very fast, light armour. So it'd be like a Hecate with ~30% less hitpoints and 25 speed.

Monitors were heavy support vessels. Example: the HMS Roberts was about 100m long, could do about 15kts, and had a pair of 15-inch battleship guns. Was used for bombarding shore targets at the Normandy landings. I suppose the FS equivalent would be to arm an Aeolus with a BGreen beam and not much else.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Carl on December 06, 2004, 11:13:08 pm
Quote
Originally posted by c914
i never realize that Seraphim os soo big.


yeah, it's ginormous, but it's so slow it's easy to shoot down. they might as well have made it a cruiser.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Knight Templar on December 07, 2004, 12:49:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grimloq
battleship : self sustaining, similar to hecate, but never needs resupplying


:wtf: It grows it's own fuel and munitions? Somehow I don't see cornstarch as the unlimited powersource of the future. :wtf:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: TrashMan on December 07, 2004, 01:01:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
i got one of theese
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/gallery/data/media/3/maelstrom.jpg)


Uuuu...sleek!:D

I like Gatling guns;7
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 07, 2004, 02:14:32 am
about beams. I was thinking that two beams on Taurus has same power as Fenris main cannon. I forgot that this cruiser posses LTerSlash not SGreen.
hmm.. i  will try to do those beams as only aginst cap ships soo they shouldnt fire to bombers and fighters, ofcourse they will be as pirmarys....i need to do some test with those and cheek if it works:doubt:

Quote

yeah, it's ginormous, but it's so slow it's easy to shoot down. they might as well have made it a cruiser


for cruiser it's too smal if  :V:  had add to it 2 more turrets with something more powerful than shival light laser Seraphim could be gunship
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 07, 2004, 02:50:56 am
the maelstrom there had beams originally but i removed them in favor of the gatling guns. i consider it in the same class as a wwii torpedo boat or an a-10 warthog. it has full turret coverage so its protected against all but the heavyest fighters and bombers. it is quite effective against criusers and corvettes, but can attack everything up to a juggernaught (the gatling guns are quite effective in bearbaiting). its handeling is halfway between a cain and an ursa. the extended cockpet was designed for 4 man crew (pilot, two guners and a payload officer). its got 3 missile bays but i want 4. it was designed pre-htl so i might curve it up abit more.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Turnsky on December 07, 2004, 03:33:42 am
i'd say frigate.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 07, 2004, 12:38:06 pm
Um, its already established that the Iceini was a frigate, so that one won't work.  It would appear that no pre-existing FS2 ship class can adequately describe this warship.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Grimloq on December 07, 2004, 02:59:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
:wtf: It grows it's own fuel and munitions? Somehow I don't see cornstarch as the unlimited powersource of the future. :wtf:


...

you never know :p

(i meant like, it can harvest its own fuel, grow its own food, etc. it doesnt need a supply ship to resupply, it does so on its own. ;) )
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 07, 2004, 05:06:16 pm
the class is gunboat, longer range than a fighter but shorter than a criuser.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: StratComm on December 07, 2004, 05:25:53 pm
Gunboat, definitely.  And the Iceni is officially a Corvette, though it is occaisonally refered to as a Frigate.  If you want a canonical reference as to what a freespace frigate is, look no farther than the Hippocrates.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 08, 2004, 12:54:59 am
"The Iceni is the NTF command frigate"...? "Bosch and his frigate have jumped!"...?

All in-game references to the Iceni are as if it were a frigate. Only the shortname that shows up in FRED is different. I therefore conclude the Iceni is, canonically, a frigate, and the shortname is a leftover bit from before they decided it was a frigate.

I know the model name says corvette too, but you wouldn't know that unless you were poking around in the dark corners of the tables.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Grimloq on December 08, 2004, 12:58:00 am
the hippocrates is a MEDICAL frigate. theres a HUGE difference.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: StratComm on December 08, 2004, 04:24:52 am
"Command we're 5 clicks from that corvette!"  ~Alpha 2

The game is contradictory on itself throughout.  Especially when you consider that the specific differences between the Iceni and a Deimos are at best minor, it's pretty clear that both are of the same class.  If anything the two class names are used interchangably.  Grimloq, "Medical Frigate" sounds like it's special because it was in Star Wars.  There's no historical precident for that distinction.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: karajorma on December 08, 2004, 06:19:57 am
I think the explaination for the contradictions that makes the most sense to me is that there isn't an official frigate classification in the GTVA now but that there used to be one. As such some people use the word for something bigger than a corvette while others use the official designation of corvette.

Of course if you're making your own mods you can then say that Command have decided to make Frigate an official class again.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 08, 2004, 06:24:29 am
Isn't the ship that looks alot llike the Hippocrates in Return of the Jedi  also the one that is  referred to as a medical frigate?

Um, I liked the idea Venom(?) had for a frigate; namely that it's simply a warship designed for some specific special purpose - like the Shivan frigate in OtT was designed to ram ships, and the Vasudan one would be (for example, I can't remember what it really did) an artillery frigate; that sort of thing.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 08, 2004, 11:44:27 am
in rotj it was a medical freighter. im thinking that in freespace the term 'frigate' implies that it is a special purpose ship. bosh could have commanded a destroyer but the smaller faster icene was used instead. did it not also double as a research vessel?
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Janos on December 08, 2004, 12:23:59 pm
"They're heading for the medical fregate". Nebulon-B.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 08, 2004, 01:02:48 pm
I always figured that a frigate was, essentially, a pocket destroyer, shrunk down because it is missing the fighterbay. The Iceni, after all, can go one-on-one with an Orion and stand a reasonable chance of winning.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 08, 2004, 01:06:51 pm
That could do Deimos with Hecate:p
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: pecenipicek on December 08, 2004, 01:19:20 pm
2 deimos >>> 1 orion
simply more flexible.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 08, 2004, 02:00:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by pecenipicek
2 deimos >>> 1 orion
simply more flexible.


Fighters.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 08, 2004, 04:26:44 pm
The Hecate's so short on anti-cap firepower I don't think it deserves to be called a destroyer. It's just a glorified fighter transport.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Swamp_Thing on December 09, 2004, 04:00:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


Uuuu...sleek!:D

I like Gatling guns;7


If you like miniguns, you are gonna love this:

http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm (http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm)
;7 ;7
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 09, 2004, 04:58:52 am
I whish to fire one of those some day:D
http://www.montysminiguns.com/trimount.jpg
this one is:eek2: ..wow
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: TrashMan on December 09, 2004, 06:12:32 am
PEACE TROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER!
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 09, 2004, 10:57:46 am
Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing


If you like miniguns, you are gonna love this:

http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm (http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm)
;7 ;7


i think im in love
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Eviscerator on December 09, 2004, 08:37:35 pm
Let us face facts: :V: totally screwed up its classification system  for their ships and we all know.

I could care less what they called them as they obviously did not know what they were doing, so I reclassified them in the table.

IMO, using Star Wars as a comparision does not wash, as Star Wars takes place in an entirely different galaxy and culture. It would make perfect sense that they would use a different system.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Black Wolf on December 09, 2004, 10:50:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
Let us face facts: :V: totally screwed up its classification system  for their ships and we all know.

I could care less what they called them as they obviously did not know what they were doing, so I reclassified them in the table.


[V] knew exactly what they were doing - they chose their classifications specifically, for a reason they've simply not deigned to tell us (apparently because they forgot).
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Carl on December 09, 2004, 11:04:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
The game is contradictory on itself throughout.


no. all frigates are corvettes, but not all corvettes are frigates.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 10, 2004, 12:41:05 am
I think I explained how FS classification system got how it was once before...

They called cruisers that because they were of similar size and function. Then someone made a ship meant to waltz in a blow your cruiser group to Kingdom Come, and called it a "cruiser destroyer". This was eventually shortened to "destroyer". (Which is a lot like how the modern destroyer ended up named what it was, actually. They used to be "torpedo-boat destroyers" or "battleship destroyers".)

Needing designations for their new overgrown cruisers and pocket destroyers, they turned to classic naval designations, and basing them from destroyer scale, they chose to call the new pocket destroyers "frigates", as frigates are the next ship down from classic destroyers. Corvettes are generally considered to be just below that, so that's what the overgrown cruisers were called.

See? It all makes sense.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Eviscerator on December 10, 2004, 01:17:22 am
Black Wolf: Whatever. :rolleyes:

ngtm1r: Yeah. I makes perfect sense. That whole thing reminds of how you take a new Rubbiks Cube out of its box, close your eyes, mix it up, and them open your eyes to see what kinda mess you have.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Black Wolf on December 10, 2004, 03:07:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
Black Wolf: Whatever. :rolleyes:


If I could be bothered proving it to you, I'd find the [V] quote where they said what I described, but, well, I'm not interested enough. If you want to believe your version, fine. You're wrong, but I guess that's not much of a factor.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Flipside on December 10, 2004, 03:48:57 am
Are ships alloted titles by the roles they play or by their tonnage displacement?

I seem to recall it's the former?
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 10, 2004, 03:54:55 am
Destroyer sounds cooler than cruiser.  Corvette sounds cooler than cruiser.  Juggernaut sounds bigger than all.

There's your designation system right there.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 10, 2004, 05:10:14 am
Alright peapol hrere what i see:
Taurus gona be a frigate becouse like Aldo says:
 
Quote
Destroyer sounds cooler than cruiser. Corvette sounds cooler than cruiser. Juggernaut sounds bigger than all

for me frigate is something smaller than crusier but very anoing:nod:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Roanoke on December 10, 2004, 10:48:20 am
looks too fighter/bomber shaped to be a frigate.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: c914 on December 10, 2004, 12:52:46 pm
shape yes, and mayby shileds to:D   but not abbilities and fire power.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: FireCrack on December 10, 2004, 05:50:43 pm
frigate sounds good, or battlecruiser mabye
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Eviscerator on December 10, 2004, 10:54:24 pm
Battlecruiser???

Black Wolf: Lad, I did NOT doubt your word for even a second. I know better. My "whatever" was aimed at what was obviously a weak :V: excuse for not being able to realistically explain why they did something, just like the many MANY weak excuses I have heard before. I used to have a list of them that I drew up after FS1. It had 37 entries IIRC.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: FireCrack on December 11, 2004, 03:03:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
Battlecruiser???


well a battlecruiser is a smaller faster lighter cruiser.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Zarax on December 11, 2004, 03:10:19 pm
Not really.
A battlecruiser is essentially (in real world terms) an heavy cruiser that sacrifices armor in order to get extra speed and heavier weaponry.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 11, 2004, 03:52:59 pm
A battlecruiser is a ship with heavy cruiser speed, size, and armor, and battleship armament. Ideally, anyways. More often it's a ship with heavy cruiser speed, heavy cruiser size, light cruiser armor, and battleship armament.

But yeah. They were meant to get the big guns around faster then a battleship. They don't last long against a true battleship, but they're death on anything light cruiser-sized or smaller. Heavy cruisers can sometimes stand up to them successfully, sometimes not.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Grimloq on December 11, 2004, 05:36:02 pm
i thought designations were based on size, firepower, and function mostly.. meh, whatever.

the iceni was custom built and designed by bosch. it HAS no designation. thats why its called 'NTF Iceni'. pilots call it whatever they want, though command seems to stick to 'frigate' mostly. it really doesnt matter on that matter. its a 'command ship'. lets leave it at that.

for those of you who care (not many...) this is the designation system *I* go by (it works...)

**F fighter, small strikecraft.  the mainstay of FS warfare
**B bomber, large strikecraft. designed to take out larger vessels with their heavier armor and large payloads of heavy missiles
**S support ship, rearms fighters. can carry boarding parties and carry small cargoes
**R recovery ship, (~200-300m long) used to recover escape pods and small groups of strikecraft (2-3 wings at a time)
**C cruiser, smallish ship ~300m long usually. designed to support larger ships, and fight fighters. fairly multipurpose, fairly fast
**Cv corvette. larger than cruisers. designed to take the place of destroyers, so they can be more along the lines of command vessles than warships. corvettes can take down most anything. VERY multipurpose
**Fr freighter. used to carry cargo to and from systems
**T transport. carries personell or cargo directly on board. can be used as boarding craft or shuttles.
**M medical ship. specifically designed to transport medical personell/medical patients around. medical ships are protected under the beta aquilae convention, even if under military control.
**Fg frigate. slightly larger than corvettes, frigates generally have longer-ranged weapons than most ships. they generally accompany larger ships in escort roles.
**Sc science vessel. used for R&D and other scientific work. science vessels are generally protected under BETAC, as they are usually run by civillians
**D destroyer. ~2km long usually. designed to take out anything smaller than itself. generally carrry fighters. a single destroyer can work by itself for great periods of time.
**SD superdestroyer. anywehre from 2-4km long, usually. designed to be versital, if slow and difficult to deplot. they make one hell of a blockade ship, though...
**Dn dreadnought. dreadnoughts carry at least one main forward cannon. often used for planetary bombardments, and can do tremendous damage in short order to ships.
**Bs battleship. battleships are fully self-sustaining, as they can provide/harvest to their own needs. they are usually slightly larger than destroyers, and serve as remote supply bases/forward bases. they often carry a large contingent of fighters, and are fairly weakly armed.
**Bc battlecruiser. spanning ~3km long usually, they are designed to be geared towards a specific goal. however, they are easily modified to suit other goals. they sometimes carry a small fighter contingent
**Ca carrier. specifically designed to carry and move fighters from place to place. although destroyers can also do this, carriers can carry more fighters, and free up destroyers from ferrying ships around.
**CS command ship. any size, these are usually slow and underarmed. they can, however, deploy hundreds of fighters.
**J juggernought. juggernoughts can easily take on any other ship. spanning about 5 or 6 km, they are the largest spacefaring vessels built by the GTVA
**SJ superjuggernought. superjuggernoughts can span 25km, and the only one ever seen was the SSJ Gigas, a shivan ship. the shivans are the only ones who could feasably build such a large ship.

SSSSSJ Stupid: a 5000km long ship designed by a n00b. it is armed with 7000 heavy beam cannons, and has 999999999999999999999999 hitpoints. :D if the SSSSSJ Stupid is not dealt with soon, it may spell the doom for the GTVA ;) *snicker*


thats the list i go by. it works well enough for models. armaments and stats are always easy to tweak :)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: WeatherOp on December 11, 2004, 05:57:56 pm
Well said, hey is anyone gonna make the Ultra-Juggernuat, that is 10,000 km long?:p
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: boewolf on December 11, 2004, 05:58:41 pm
Would that fit into the game peramiters?
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: WeatherOp on December 11, 2004, 05:59:59 pm
Don't know,:confused: anyone wanna try.:lol:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Grimloq on December 11, 2004, 06:01:58 pm
im game ;) lol.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: boewolf on December 11, 2004, 06:03:59 pm
could you imagine the amount of turrets needed to protect a thing like that...
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: WeatherOp on December 11, 2004, 06:07:39 pm
Yeah, close to 30,001.:D  11,000 heavy beam weapons, 11,000 flak, 8,000 anti-fighter beam. And one beam more powerful than the Death Star's. Evoprates whole Galaxys.:lol:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: TrashMan on December 11, 2004, 07:07:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grimloq

**Bs battleship. battleships are fully self-sustaining, as they can provide/harvest to their own needs. they are usually slightly larger than destroyers, and serve as remote supply bases/forward bases. they often carry a large contingent of fighters, and are fairly weakly armed.
 
:wtf: :wtf:

Battleships shouldn't carry a large contingent of fighters.
Battleship = armor & weapons + more armor & weapons + even more armor & weapons. No fighters....

my two cents...
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Eviscerator on December 11, 2004, 07:18:53 pm
Gents, the term "Battlecruiser" was employed strictly to replace the term "Dreadnaught" when that term fell out of favor.

A Dreadnaught was the precursor to the true Battleship, starting with the HMS Dreadnaught that started it all. The ship was larger and more heavily armed than a Heavy Cruiser.

When true Battleships entered service, "Dreadnaught" was replaced by "Battlecruiser" and describes a ship that is larger, more heavily armed and armored than a Heavy Cruiser, but less so than a Battleship. Currently, the only active Battlecruiser is the Kirov Class operated by the Russian Navy, Northern Fleet. That is, if they can even afford to operate at all. Those Battlecruisers that were less armored than Heavy Cruisers were so because they were originally old Dreadnaughts, like the HMS Hood, and were no longer up to the armor standards being employed by more advanced Heavy Cruisers.

In most Sci-Fi works that include warships, a Dreadnaught describes a massive ship that fullfills both the role of Battleship and Carrier.

I use this, skipping the small craft:

CR: Corvette. Corvette's have always been small and speedy patrol vessels larger than PT Boats, but smaller than Frigates. They are primarily used by the Italian, Argentinian, Norweigian, French navies to patrol coast lines, hunt subsmarines, provide AAA support to larger ships, or in a pinch attack larger vessels. The US and Royal Navies refer to this class of ship as a Cutter. I feel that the ship higlighted in this thread is a good example of a Corvette. The Shivan Vindhychal is another good example, IMO

FG: Frigate. Frigates are small vessels smaller and more agile than Destroyers. They are primarily used to hunt subs and provide AAA support to a Battle Group. They also make excellant escorts, and shipping lane control craft. I added two turrets to a Satis once to make a Frigate. A good example. I also think that Aldo's Piranah and Njord are good examples of Frigates, despite being a little large for the class.

DD: Destroyer. Destroyers were first dreamed up to take advantage of new torpedo technology after Naval treaties limited tjhe number of Battleships and Battle and Heavy Cruisers that a nation could possess. All naval thinking at the time revolved around what was called "The Grand Battle" where it was thought that two massive opposing fleets would meet and slug it out with guns. This is before the airplane and the Carrier figured prominently in their thinking. The treaty did not limit the number of smaller vessels a nation could have since it was thought that such small vessels would have no or little value in "The Grand Battle". Nations used the new torpedo technology mounted on smaller vessels to exploit this loophole. A torpedo cares not the size or grandeur of a ship, and made great Battleship killers. They small vessels were thus originally called "Battleship-Destroyers" but the name was later shortened to just Destroyer. This meaning have generally been lost to time, however, as the Destroyer's role has changed immensely. They now act as escorts, ASW and AA vessels, but can still attack larger ships with missiles and torpedos. The name now describes a class of small multi-task vessels and for that reason I see no logic in calling an Orion or Hectate a Destroyer just because it was allegedly designed to take out Cruisers. The Fenris is a perfect example of a Destroyer, especially if you arm its main turret with torpedos. :D Slightly larger and more powerful vessels called Destroyer Leaders or Heavy Destroyers were also designed. You *could* conceivably refer to the Aeolus or Leviathan as such, altough I personally prefer to lump them in the next class. The Cain and the Lilith would fit here too.

CL: Light Cruiser. Pretty self explanatory. Some would say that these are the first class of the "ships of the line", others disagree. In wars past, many of these served support roles like dedicated escort or AAA duty. Some were just enlarged and rearmed Heavy Destroyers, and thus had little armor protection. Still others were designed to fight it out on the line with Heavy Cruisers. I would say that the Mentu, Aeolus, Rakasha, and Leviathan are good examples, but my fav example is Hamano's Ticonderoga.

CLM or CAM: Missile or Torpedo Cruiser: Missile or Guided Missile Cruisers are usually built to provide Air Defense for the fleet, but in most Sci FI circles, are a light or heavy cruiser that is armed with missiles or torpedos instead of guns. Stratcomm has come up with good examples of these IIRC.

CA: Heavy Cruiser. The first true "Ships of the Line" Heavy Cruisers serve only one purpose: To pound opposing vessels into so much scrap. The Deimos and Sobek are perfect examples.

CS: Strike Cruiser. A designation in Sci Fi circles used to describe a heavy cruiser that carries a small number of strike craft like fighters or bombers. The Moloch fits here.

CC: Command Cruiser. Class I added to describe several of the AWACS capable cruisers that the community has come up with.

CB: Battlecruiser. The fall in between the Heavy Cruiser and the Battleship, Battlecruisers were the first battlewagons built. Originally refered to as Dreadnaughts. Soem would say that the Iceni fits here, but I would usually disagree. The Phobos and the Nike fit here very well.

BB: Battleship. We all know what a Battleship is. In the real world BB's carried a couple planes, or none at all. In Sci Fi, they may carry a defense squadron or two, but usually none at all. I would put the Iceni here, as a smaller, fast BB. Anybody remember the PVD Cobra? I would call that a Battleship ( we are re-doing it, btw ). There have been some other good examples around the community too.

CV: Carrier. We all know what a carrier does. Carries strike craft to the battle area and has few anti-ship weapons except those for defense. The designation by the US is CV for fixed wing, or CH for rotary wing carriers. An N is added for nuclear. I have dropped those for obvious reasons. There are lots of different kinds of carriers. Small Carrier Escorts (CVE), whose job is to provide defense squadrons for convoys and larger warships that lack such support of their own (Aldos Gryphon is a good example, I think); Light Carriers (CVL) that are smaller than the larger carriers but provide the same sort of capabilities but on a smaller scale; Strike Carriers (CVS), like the Orion, Typhon, and Demon that provide large numbers of bombers and fighters to any offensive and defensive effort, and can also fight if needed; and the massive Fleet Carriers (CVF), like Aldo's Warlock, that form the nucleus of any Fleet.

DN: Dreadnaught. In contemporary Sci Fi, this describes a massive vessel that performs the duties of both carrier and battleship, although differing definitions exist. Hectate and Ravana are perfect examples.

SD. Super Dreadnaught. We all know what this is. Lucifer and Hades would be good examples.

JN: Juggeranaught. Same as above. Colossus, Sath good examples.

SJ: Super Juggernaught. Describes the massive 10+ kilometer vessels that the community has come up with.

CS: Command Ship. Same as above, but those vessels designed to be flagships more than frontline vessels.

I have also considered a "Planet Killer" class to describe these types of vessels that myself and several others have made.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Grimloq on December 11, 2004, 08:21:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
CS: Command Ship. Same as above, but those vessels designed to be flagships more than frontline vessels.


didnt i SAY that they werent? :wtf: oops :)

Quote
Battleships shouldn't carry a large contingent of fighters.
Battleship = armor & weapons + more armor & weapons + even more armor & weapons. No fighters....


i SAID thats what I go by :p the future hasnt happened yet. for all we know, battlecruisers might become fighters... i dunno.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: WeatherOp on December 11, 2004, 09:49:13 pm
Did the term Juggernaut come from the Navy like Cruiser, and Dreadnought? or was it just made up.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Grimloq on December 11, 2004, 10:11:10 pm
a 'juggernought' is a noun. its defined as 'something of great power' or something like that.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 11, 2004, 11:04:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
Gents, the term "Battlecruiser" was employed strictly to replace the term "Dreadnaught" when that term fell out of favor.

A Dreadnaught was the precursor to the true Battleship, starting with the HMS Dreadnaught that started it all. The ship was larger and more heavily armed than a Heavy Cruiser.

When true Battleships entered service, "Dreadnaught" was replaced by "Battlecruiser" and describes a ship that is larger, more heavily armed and armored than a Heavy Cruiser, but less so than a Battleship. Currently, the only active Battlecruiser is the Kirov Class operated by the Russian Navy, Northern Fleet. That is, if they can even afford to operate at all. Those Battlecruisers that were less armored than Heavy Cruisers were so because they were originally old Dreadnaughts, like the HMS Hood, and were no longer up to the armor standards being employed by more advanced Heavy Cruisers.


That would be a no. The battlecruiser was one of many experimental cruiser types. Originally there was only one cruiser type. Sometime before WWI, people began experimenting, creating the heavy, light, armored, and battle cruisers. The armored cruiser is something of the reverse of a battlecruiser: it is a ship with heavy cruiser speed, size, and armament, but battleship armor. It, and the battlecruiser, were mostly extinct by World War II. The Hood was built for WWI, but completed too late to participate.

Battlecruisers fought at Jutland, which was the battle of the Dreadnaught-type ships, so the class existed before you seem to believe.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 11, 2004, 11:22:36 pm
i perfer to use the freespace system. though we need 3 new classes.

a class midrange between criuser and 'vette (battlecriuser?)
midrange between 'vette and destroyer (frigate?)
carriers (any size)

destroyer and juggernaught could ues the prefix super if using a size bigger than normal.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Eviscerator on December 12, 2004, 04:36:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r


That would be a no. The battlecruiser was one of many experimental cruiser types. Originally there was only one cruiser type. Sometime before WWI, people began experimenting, creating the heavy, light, armored, and battle cruisers. The armored cruiser is something of the reverse of a battlecruiser: it is a ship with heavy cruiser speed, size, and armament, but battleship armor. It, and the battlecruiser, were mostly extinct by World War II. The Hood was built for WWI, but completed too late to participate.

Battlecruisers fought at Jutland, which was the battle of the Dreadnaught-type ships, so the class existed before you seem to believe.


Sorry, that would be a yes. The experimental types you are refering to did indeed birth the Dreadnaught class first pioneered by the designers of the HMS Dreadnaught. These vessels did indeed originate before WWI, and did participate in combat before the Great War. The bulk of the ships of the line of the US White Fleet, that engaged the Spanish Navy during the Spanish-American War, were of this type of vessel.

Historians often refer to Dreadnaughts as Battlecruiser because just as I said the term "Dreadnaught" was replaced by the term "Battlecruiser".  

Historians love to refer to the USS Maine as a Battleship too, although the Battleship class did not exist at the time.

The Hood was indeed a Dreadnaught, later reclassed Battlecruiser, completed to late for WWI. I do not see what her combat record has to do with anything. Does it matter that she was sunk by the Bismark in less than 2 minutes?

Anyway, among my educational accolades is a BS in Military History, Virgina Military Institute, Class of '94. I am pretty darn sure that I know what I am talking about.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Raptor on December 12, 2004, 05:01:09 am
Hmmm, bits of a Kushan heavy corvette, the Defiant, and even a tiny hint of the Millenium Falcon.  I like:nod::yes:

Not sure about the tail, and the vertical engines, but over all very good.  The two prongs from the side could do with being toned down a little though.

I've got to get to work on that Defiant/Falcon craft design I've got kicking around....

And I'd go with either Gunboat (GTGb) or Gunship (GTGs) for something that size.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 12, 2004, 12:09:21 pm
id only opt for the term gunboat/ship if the vessel has massive primary firepower. a ship of similar size with the firepower of any other bomber is still just an oversized bomber. the 200mm gatling guns on my ship, can slice a cain in half in just a few seconds. :D
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: WeatherOp on December 12, 2004, 03:03:57 pm
I guess the only WWII Battleships worth calling Juggernuats were the Tirpitz and the Bismark.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Zarax on December 12, 2004, 03:05:40 pm
Err.. You forgot the biggest of them all, the Yamato class!
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 12, 2004, 03:52:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator


Sorry, that would be a yes. The experimental types you are refering to did indeed birth the Dreadnaught class first pioneered by the designers of the HMS Dreadnaught. These vessels did indeed originate before WWI, and did participate in combat before the Great War. The bulk of the ships of the line of the US White Fleet, that engaged the Spanish Navy during the Spanish-American War, were of this type of vessel.

Historians often refer to Dreadnaughts as Battlecruiser because just as I said the term "Dreadnaught" was replaced by the term "Battlecruiser".  

Historians love to refer to the USS Maine as a Battleship too, although the Battleship class did not exist at the time.

The Hood was indeed a Dreadnaught, later reclassed Battlecruiser, completed to late for WWI. I do not see what her combat record has to do with anything. Does it matter that she was sunk by the Bismark in less than 2 minutes?

Anyway, among my educational accolades is a BS in Military History, Virgina Military Institute, Class of '94. I am pretty darn sure that I know what I am talking about.


Then I'm going to have to talk to your teachers. And since VMI is, after all, an army school, I'm pretty darn sure they didn't. The battlecruiser is a seperate class. That's basic. A given. Battleships are the descendants of the HMS Dreadnaught, not battlecruisers. That's also basic. The Dreadnaught itself was and is classed a battleship, not a battlecruiser.

I note you also fail to refute my point that Jutland, the greatest battle ever fought between dreadnaught-type ships, included both battleships and battlecruisers. The two are seperate classes at that point in time. The battleships that engaged at Jutland were dreadnaught-type ships. The more advanced battleship that you speak of did not emerge until the 1920s. Perhaps what you say of the Hood is true. But that does not apply to battlecruisers that fought in WWI.

@WeatherOp/Zarax: The Sathanas can't be compared to any naval vessel, past or current. It's just too powerful. Even a Yamato probably couldn't kill an opposing battleship with a single salvo.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: WeatherOp on December 12, 2004, 04:01:27 pm
Whats a Yamato? A real ship or is it just made up.
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Post by: FireCrack on December 12, 2004, 04:13:27 pm
Yamato isn't a class, it's the name of a ship

Just as Hood, prince of whales, and bismark arent classes.
Title: OMG!!!
Post by: Getter Robo G on December 12, 2004, 05:45:04 pm
You NEVER heard of Yamato? What ARE they teaching these kids today??? :confused:

Yamato was like Japan's most kick a$$ battleship!

Also my personal favorite was an anime in the mid 70's called Star Blazers, where they used the remains of the Yamato (in their version it was MUCH more intact) and built a "Space Battleship", in fact coining the phrase. They used it to travel 186,000 light years to the planet Iscandar and back in 1 year time to reverse cosmic radiation damage Earth suffered from constant radiological attack by the planet Gamilon.

you can see the mod progress HERE (shameless pimp)
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27330.0.html

I don't care what class a ship is, as long as it is cool looking and kicks a$$ ! (oh yeah and weather or not it is firing on me!) :nervous:
INCOMMING!!!  :shaking:
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Zarax on December 12, 2004, 06:24:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by FireCrack
Yamato isn't a class, it's the name of a ship

Just as Hood, prince of whales, and bismark arent classes.


Yamato is indeed the class name, and it comprised two ships (four were planned): Yamato and Musashi.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 12, 2004, 07:28:42 pm
But the Yamato was the larger of the two, so they very well can't be of the same Class (unless they took the term "class" to be fore flexible than we do).  The Musashi was a large battleship without doubt, but it wasn't identical to the Yamato.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: FireCrack on December 12, 2004, 08:16:54 pm
Wel, yamato isn't a class in this context. just as ticonderoga isn't

We are talking about classes as in major ship types.

EX, the diference between destroyer class and orion class.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: WeatherOp on December 12, 2004, 10:07:58 pm
Sorry don't know that much about Japanese stuff.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 13, 2004, 01:23:49 am
as far as i know the yamato was a one of a kind battleship, much like the colossus. too big and too expensive to build more than one. wwii taught us that warefare between such large ships was inneffietient. bismark and yamato didtn live very long. though hood was an older ship, but couldnt survive bismark's more modern fire control systems (and dumb luck). peral harbor and the death of the bismark proved that the aircraft carrier was a supirior engine of war.  smaller vessels seem to be the way everyones going. they have better fire coverage, and the ability to move about the battle field. look at the sathanas and the collossus, they can barely shoot at a target at one ship length away. its far easyer to hit an orion with a helios than it is to bomb an aeolas.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2004, 03:07:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
as far as i know the yamato was a one of a kind battleship, much like the colossus. too big and too expensive to build more than one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_class_battleship

The Yamato and Mushashi were both completed, the Shinano was converted to an aircraft carrier and a 4th was scrapped at ~30% complete.
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: TrashMan on December 13, 2004, 04:13:26 am
I would personally call FS2 Destroyers Dreadnoughts.

Other than that, normal Naval type naming...(with carriers and battleship being biger than a dreadnought)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Challenger on December 18, 2004, 02:36:28 pm
I'd define Corvettes as 'outrun what you can't outgun'. just my 2 cents, though ;)
Title: something aginst capsips...WIP
Post by: Nuke on December 18, 2004, 02:55:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_class_battleship

The Yamato and Mushashi were both completed, the Shinano was converted to an aircraft carrier and a 4th was scrapped at ~30% complete.


i need to pay better attention to the history chanel