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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Striker on December 05, 2004, 11:40:42 pm

Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Striker on December 05, 2004, 11:40:42 pm: I'm not sure if this as been brought up, but IIRC sound doesnt travel through space because it works through vibrations of actual matter. How is it that in FS2 that we can heard explosions, beams, lasers, subspace, etc.? The only things that we could really hear in reality would be:
The vibrations of subspace travel
Our own weapons
Explosion SHOCKWAVES
Any impacts on our own hull

If anyone has an explanation of this, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise it'll go down (at least in my mind) along with the lack of intertia and other physics in FS2 in the don't ask category.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Flipside on December 05, 2004, 11:50:40 pm: Without air molecules their wouldn't even be shockwaves to hear. It has been mentioned before....

Personally, I think that just being able to hear the hum of your own in-cockpit system would be, whilst realistic, not really using the games technology available to us ;) I've never seen a spacegame yet that didn't allow this one little breach of the law of physics :D
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: FireCrack on December 05, 2004, 11:51:13 pm: Sound actualy does travel through space, it just has to be damn loud.

ofcourse nothing in freepsace would be this loud. Mabye you'l hear stuff in the denser nebulae.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: deep_eyes on December 05, 2004, 11:55:55 pm: hence the phrase.... FREESPACE PHYSICS....

(lmao!)

in some reality, u only hear explosions if your very, very close. being as how big ships u can here explode, even if its very low, u can hear it popping about 4000+meters away.(FS2 PHSYICS)
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Carl on December 06, 2004, 01:13:30 am: all the sounds are simulated by the onboard computer, so that the pilot is more aware of his surroundings.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Black Sheep on December 06, 2004, 01:20:16 am: Just think about it...how many people would buy FreeSpace, how many people would watch B5, how many people would watch Star Trek, if there were just a few cockpit beeps?

The Q in this Thread is completely useless... :rolleyes:
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Nuke on December 06, 2004, 01:42:02 am: you would hear shockwaves only if you are caught in it. from a ways away no. and if i were desining a space fighter id design them with a 3d audio system. besides playing the pilots .mp12 files you could use it as a 3d radar. each ship type will have a distinctive noise to them. not only can you tell where they are but also who they are. and with practis you can tell how far away by varying the volume or pitch of each noise. but nah i be listening to death metal :D
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Mongoose on December 06, 2004, 01:45:01 am: As my physics professor, who has a Ph.D. in astronomy, said one day in class, "What fun is sci-fi without explosions in space?" That's a good enough reason for me. :D
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: karajorma on December 06, 2004, 07:54:41 am: Quote
Originally posted by Carl
all the sounds are simulated by the onboard computer, so that the pilot is more aware of his surroundings.

Yep. That's exactly the explaination I've always used. Doesn't work for cutscenes but frankly who cares :D
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Striker on December 06, 2004, 08:19:18 am: Quote
Originally posted by Black Sheep
Just think about it...how many people would buy FreeSpace, how many people would watch B5, how many people would watch Star Trek, if there were just a few cockpit beeps?

The Q in this Thread is completely useless... :rolleyes:

I know it wouldn't be fun, I'm just wondering if there's a real explanation. I guess the 3D sound system would have to be the best bet for it.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 06, 2004, 01:38:37 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Carl
all the sounds are simulated by the onboard computer, so that the pilot is more aware of his surroundings.

The Wing Commander games actually used that explanation in their manuals, or at least WC II did.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Drew on December 06, 2004, 10:43:35 pm: speaking of sound, it would be really awesome if we got non-EAX 3D sound.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Grimloq on December 06, 2004, 11:00:39 pm: yeah, i agree with 'computer simulates sound'

in one of the battletech books (test of vengeance) -
Spoiler:
jake kabrinski (name right) notes that the concept of explosions are kinda lost without any sound when hes boarding the battleship in space, as hes used to land combat.

(twas only an example, nothing important)
so, it could keep the pilot occupied on battle and not on the weirdness of sound. kinda a psycological thing, like the sleeping hypnosis in starship troopers.

*reads alot* :p
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Knight Templar on December 07, 2004, 12:48:09 am: "There are no stupid questions Kyle, only stupid people."
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Swamp_Thing on December 07, 2004, 03:42:25 am: It´s not just sound, it´s the fire in space aswell. But just like a fire, sound can have the exacty same explanation:
Sound is nothing more than reverberations on particles of any given matter. Like water, gas, stone, etc. Each has it´s own tone and level of "noise". So, maybe we can´t hear anything in the middle of void empty space, but when we have a ship exploding, there is a whole lot of matter being jettisoned to space. Just like fire consumes the oxygen within the atmosphere held inside the ship, so do sound waves get to reverberate on that same flash of matter blasted on all directions. Technically, you SHOULD be able to hear them at a given distance, for the ammount of time those particles take to scatter into the vacuum of space.
When a missile explodes in space, assuming the warhead carries within itself the matter needed to provoke an explosion, it also spreads bits and pieces of matter of the missile itself. As long as the pilot keeps within the blast radius where the sound can travel to him, there should be no problem hearing it blow up. It wouldn´t sound as back here on Earth, but we would definitely hear something.
Let´s not forget that space isn´t all void, we have nebulae, asteroid fields, a whole bunch of places littered with particles of matter that can reverberate to produce sound.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Flipside on December 07, 2004, 12:52:45 pm: You'd have to be pretty damn close to stuff to be able to detect the impact of those melocules on your hull. Also, in the case of spacecraft, strictly speaking, they should implode first (Assuming they are pressurised).

The problem is that sound needs a medium to carry it, air molecules, water molecules etc. You would already have to be in some kind of medium to hear the sound, a ship exploding would not produce enough debris in the gulf of space to do so.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Kie99 on December 07, 2004, 01:02:38 pm: I remember posting a theory on this a few months ago, I'm still hurting from the flames...
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Carl on December 07, 2004, 01:15:39 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
It´s not just sound, it´s the fire in space aswell

oh, for the love of...

for the upteenth time: IT'S NOT FIRE!!!!

it's plasma or other superheated gas or materials. where in the game is it ever stated to be fire? and don't say "the .ani is called fireball.ani" or something. fireball is used in real life by astronomers to describe things that are't really fire, such as the fireballs created by shoemaker-levi 9.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: aldo_14 on December 07, 2004, 01:31:13 pm: In a sci-fi game, the most important word is 'game'. The second most important is 'fiction'. The science part is made up to fit the former 2.
Title: Re: Sound in space.
Post by: IceFire on December 07, 2004, 01:49:40 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Striker
I'm not sure if this as been brought up, but IIRC sound doesnt travel through space because it works through vibrations of actual matter. How is it that in FS2 that we can heard explosions, beams, lasers, subspace, etc.? The only things that we could really hear in reality would be:
The vibrations of subspace travel
Our own weapons
Explosion SHOCKWAVES
Any impacts on our own hull

If anyone has an explanation of this, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise it'll go down (at least in my mind) along with the lack of intertia and other physics in FS2 in the don't ask category.

We've heard it before...its a game and like many sci-fi movies...its downright boring without some kind of sound.
Title: Re: Sound in space.
Post by: Roanoke on December 07, 2004, 03:24:38 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Striker
If anyone has an explanation of this, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise it'll go down (at least in my mind) along with the lack of intertia and other physics in FS2 in the don't ask category.

try "don't care/heard it a thousand times" already category
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Striker on December 07, 2004, 03:31:48 pm: It seems like you guys took me as bashing FS for having sound. I didn't mean it that way. I'm just seeing if you guys have thought of reasons to explain why its like that. FS wouldnt be FS w/o the sound the way it is.

And on the fire topic, I'm pretty sure it WOULD be possible for a very short time. Air leaking from a hull that was just turned to plasma by a beam impact or bomb probably would catch fire. And the air (on a terran ship at least) would have a large amount of oxygen in it, therefore it could burn until the oxygen is run out.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: JR2000Z on December 07, 2004, 04:01:11 pm: My guess is that the GTVA/Shivans are using specialized engergy equipment (weapons, engine...) that deals sound waves in a different way. Just because we can't find stuff like that on Earth that works doesn't mean we won't find it elsewhere.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 07, 2004, 04:11:13 pm: I'm sticking with the computer providing audio cues to improve pilot situational awareness.

Realistically speaking, even in atmospheric combat you don't hear the other guy fire, only yourself.

I always figured the ani as either superheated air from a slow leak, or bits of armor from a hit that liquified some of it.

Oh, and the shockwaves: Yes, you do get those in space. Just not very well. But shockwaves from supernovae have a lot to do with the current theory of star formation. Considering the power of the weapons used in FS that produce shockwaves (The Harbinger would make any current atomic weapon look like a firecracker, and the Tsunami would too. Their successors even more so.), they seem reasonably sized and do reasonable amounts of damage.
Title: Sound in space.
Post by: Nuke on December 07, 2004, 04:53:59 pm: remember that fs2 fighters use fusion reactors, , when they loos containment they release the superheated plasma. this would no doubt mix with the air creating a brief plasma fire, but you wouldnt notice it through all the superheated plasma.