Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on December 06, 2004, 03:51:14 pm
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More power to 'em
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4072887.stm
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Shame Khatami hasn't done what he said he'd do. I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised - there are some really hardcore clerics in the government that seem to be pulling all the strings. At least there are demonstrations happening now though - that's a step in the right direction. :yes:
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I hope that we don't see another Tianemen Square incident :(
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The man sat and took abuse of students and no-one was even arrested yet you think theres going to be some sort of massacre? :rolleyes:
Read Khatamis statement:
"There is no Third World country where the students can talk to their president and criticise the government as you do now.
now read this:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/04/27/artwork.investigated.ap/
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Just as an aside, there are actually pitifully few 'First World' countries that would allow that sort of thing. Certainly, in the US there would have been arrests etc had a group of students started accusing GW of letting them down, and even in the UK this would be hard to get away with.
In a way this is a demonstration of freedom beyond that which many more 'civilised' countries are capable of.
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Wow......
Regime change the way it's SUPPOSED to be done.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Just as an aside, there are actually pitifully few 'First World' countries that would allow that sort of thing. Certainly, in the US there would have been arrests etc had a group of students started accusing GW of letting them down, and even in the UK this would be hard to get away with.
In a way this is a demonstration of freedom beyond that which many more 'civilised' countries are capable of.
People protest here in America like that. You should have seen some of the election areas around Nov. 2nd. As long as there isn't any violence. There were alot of "F' Bush" signs being waved by people. And yes they literally said F' em.
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Some of us who went to see Michael Moore when he came to Arizona got assaulted (physically) by Bush supporters.
Advice: NEVER lip off to a crowd of people who want to kill you. That sucked.
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Originally posted by ionia23
Wow......
Regime change the way it's SUPPOSED to be done.
That's exactly the thought that occured to me.............
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Originally posted by Thrilla
People protest here in America like that. You should have seen some of the election areas around Nov. 2nd. As long as there isn't any violence. There were alot of "F' Bush" signs being waved by people. And yes they literally said F' em.
Oh the spirit is still alive, but were these banners being waved in 'Free Speech zones' or were people actually in front of Big Bad George making their feelings felt within his hearing?
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http://republican-news.org/archive/2003/May22/22usio.html
Source aint the best but it was the only site a quick search turned up.
Thrilla, this wasnt a protest, it was a conference. They were in the room with the guy. Your president rarely even meets the press face to face.
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Yes, Ireland's political system works much like Australias, i.e. theres still some fire left in it, alas I fear much of England and Scotland has had the spirit beaten out of it, and what's left is being squashed by anti-terrorism laws :(
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Not really, we got one main party which is basically the ideological equivelent of new labour, the main opposition who are Irelands answer to the tories and one or two others rough equivelents of the lib dems. Apart from the anti-terrorism stuff we're pretty much in the same boat, though Bertie is a bit more palatable than Tony Bush. We let the terrorists take part in elections, would be a bit unfair not to as pratically every political party in the country was formed by the IRA at one point or another.
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So your main and opposition party are essentially identical then? :D
With Scotland.... i'm not sure if we have the same freedom or will to complain, but we do still get people elected to the devolved Parliament who wouldn't get elected in many other countries or in England; Scottish Socialists (I'm still not sure this is good, natch), the Greens, one MP from the OAPs Alliance or whatever it is and a doctor standing on a single issue; to stop them closing Stobhill hospital (which is important to me as my dad needed to go there for..um...stuff).
Partly due to the fact we have 4 parties (SNP, albeit the tories are now so out of it their next UK election manifesto basically targets big voting & money allocation cuts for Scotland), but there have also been a few 'common sense' victories, too. Such as stopping a few hospital closure such as the Queen Marys in Glasgow (notable as a hospital situated next to a specialist childcare unit, the aim of the 'government' seems to be to close every hospital service and have one gigantic one in the middle of sodding nowhere). Also helps that it's a Lib-Lab coalition that's in power and the SNP opposition are close enough that the Lib Dems could switch to them and form a different coalition government). Also in arranging it so I & other Scots don't have to pay tuition fees for Scottish unis :D.
Scottish parliament...works in places. It's subject to the usual problems (it's run by politicians), but at least there's some freedom to do stuff better in certain areas. Unfortunately, I think ID cards are out its jurisdiction.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Oh the spirit is still alive, but were these banners being waved in 'Free Speech zones' or were people actually in front of Big Bad George making their feelings felt within his hearing?
People do it all the time, they just don't point cameras at the crowd. :)
There is a reason he doesn't have conferences with the public.
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There are some people from Iran that believe that things are going to hit a critical mass. Something like, 98% have had it with the idiocy in thier gov't.
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Good...That means they won't send me to Iran after I go to Iraq!
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Originally posted by Flipside
Yes, Ireland's political system works much like Australias, i.e. theres still some fire left in it, alas I fear much of England and Scotland has had the spirit beaten out of it, and what's left is being squashed by anti-terrorism laws :(
Ahem????
Originally posted by thrilla
There is a reason he doesn't have conferences with the public.
Yeah. He'd be covered in **** inside 30 seconds. Or on the floor with his "brains" up the wall behind him....
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ahem? Care to elaborate? ;)
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You're forgetting a nation....
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LOL Oh, I see, actually, to be honest, I didn't include Wales because I'm ashamed to say I'm not sure what the political situation is there :(
The BBC seems to have a blind spot East of the River Severn :( No doubt you are under the yoke as heavily as the rest of the UK :(
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I believe I heard somewhere that the Isle of Man has a very corrupt government.....
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Heh, don't worry Flipside - it's not that exciting. Usual crap - bickering over stupid things, under Blunkett's thumb with the ID cards etc., we want a full parliament (yeah, an "assembly" - woohoo! :rolleyes: ) so we can actually make some laws. Some cretins at the EU even managed to leave us off the map entirely!
Political map is broadly Labour, but they took a beating at the last elections, and lost a load of councils to the Lib Dems, nationalists (Plaid Cymru) and a few Greens got in as well IIRC. Usual infighting and bickering, nothing special. The new Assembly building is costing silly money (over £40m last I heard, up from £10m originally),
Big issues here are employment - since the mining collapse, and the subsequent loss of the oil refineries in Pembrokeshire, the steelworks closures and basically all heavy industry disappearing, there's massive unemployment in the Valleys, which is now (IIRC) the poorest area in the country, and one of the poorest in Europe (we get a massive portion of the UK's Objective One money). Education is on the down, crime (particularly drugs) is on the up, etc. Health is also very poor (IIRC 23% of working-age men say they have a long-term health problem), which also affects employment, and stretches the NHS even further. The Valleys are a huge, throbbing, stinking mess. Lucky I don't live there :D
Anything else?
Oh yeah, there's a fuss over a toll relief road for the M4 past Newport (a bit past the Severn Bridge), and locally to me, there are plans to build a big offshore windfarm about 4 miles off the coast. I fully support it, but the locals are going ape****, saying "it'll spoil the view and kill our tourist industry!" even though the tourists are all local anyway, and they won't even be visible from the beach!
Foot and Mouth ****ed things up royally a few years back - farming's a mess, some people are going ape**** about the hunting ban, chronic shortage of NHS dentists, the Burns Unit at Morriston Hospital in Swansea is closing (one of the leading places in the UK), etc. etc.
Any questions, I'll try to answer. Any foreigners go "hey, I know Wales - that's in England, isn't it?", I'll come round your house and beat you to death with a large fish..... :mad2: ;)
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Yeah, I'd heard about the assembly, Wales has been wanting that about as long as Ireland and Scotland did...
No offence to the Irish or Scottish members of this board, but for all the 'Terrorism cannot work' gibberish of Blairs, the only country in the British Isles that our government won't talk to about an assembly is the one that used the least 'Terrorism' to achieve it? Admittedly, Scotland stopped years and years ago, but I think there were some groups?
I like the Windfarms in Wales, it's always been a bit forward thinking about energy, theres a Water Power station in North Wales, in the Gwyneth Valley, but you can't tell, since it's completely invisible from above ground.
Yeah, I think Labour had better brace itself for next year, I think more than a bit of a slap in the face is coming with any luck. Problem is for England, that we don't have a 'National Party' as such, well, we have something called the British National Party, but the government made sure that was stamped as an abode for racists and thugs etc, and thus it became such. We can't even fly the George Cross again, they let us do it while the world cup was on, but there stamping it out again :(
I don't really care as such, it's just a bit of cloth, but I'm younger than most politicians and still realise the trouble singling out our flag could cause. Had it not been mentioned, they'd probably have vanished of their own accord anyway, just without the attention.
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Actually, there was a "terrorist" group back in the 60s and 70s - Welsh Liberation Army or something daft like that. There was a big fuss about them when prince Charles was going to be officially made Prince of Wales at Caernarvon Castle (whenever that was) - apparently the WLA was going to do something to him - blow him up, shoot him, cover him in paint, I dunno.
As for the assembly, it's working fine so far, it just doesn't have any real power in terms of setting taxes or making laws....
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Originally posted by Flipside
Yeah, I'd heard about the assembly, Wales has been wanting that about as long as Ireland and Scotland did...
No offence to the Irish or Scottish members of this board, but for all the 'Terrorism cannot work' gibberish of Blairs, the only country in the British Isles that our government won't talk to about an assembly is the one that used the least 'Terrorism' to achieve it? Admittedly, Scotland stopped years and years ago, but I think there were some groups?
Not really.... there was the SLA (who sent about 5 non-functioning letterbombs, 1 small vial of poison in the mail to Prince william and nicked some guns from TA bases in the 80s or so - i.e. done **** all) and a bunch of students who nicked the Stone of Destiny. That's about it.
EDIT; of course, Scotland has a large set of Labour voters and sod-all Tory voters.... I wonder if that was a factor?
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Ah... must have got my sources confused, to be honest, I've got a horrible suspicion it was the WLA I was thinking of, I grew up in the 70's so chances are they were more prominent around that time.
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Then, Scotland is the only one without a serious terrorist group and also the only one with functional devolution.
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Yep, so I made a prime time pigs ear of that little comment....
:nervous:
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There's only about seven people in Scotland anyway.... :nod: :p
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:p I'llhave you know it's at least 8.