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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazan on December 11, 2004, 09:35:35 am

Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Kazan on December 11, 2004, 09:35:35 am
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20041211/ap_on_re_eu/yushchenko_health


it was rather obvious


Before:

(http://president2004.com.ua/foto/yushchenko.jpg)

After

(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041210/capt.xkiv10112100917.ukraine_election_xkiv101.jpg)
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Knight Templar on December 11, 2004, 02:21:59 pm
Indeed.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on December 11, 2004, 02:26:28 pm
Well, now we know what the poison was...
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 11, 2004, 02:35:09 pm
Wow... that really sucks to be him.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: kode on December 11, 2004, 02:45:01 pm
so, he gets poisoned and suddenly looks like actor/director Peter Dalle

(http://www.exeforyou.nu/nejtillemu/41.jpg)
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: redmenace on December 11, 2004, 03:18:03 pm
Old news, but tragic. it looks like he has an alergic reaction.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 11, 2004, 05:43:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by redmenace
Old news, but tragic. it looks like he has an alergic reaction.


The hospital announced it was diagnosed as the result of dioxin poisoning.  So unless you're working in the Rudolfinerhaus clinic, I'd say you're wrong.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Rictor on December 11, 2004, 05:57:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kode
so, he gets poisoned and suddenly looks like actor/director Peter Dalle

(http://www.exeforyou.nu/nejtillemu/41.jpg)


wow, the resembelance is uncanny.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: kode on December 11, 2004, 06:52:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


The hospital announced it was diagnosed as the result of dioxin poisoning.  So unless you're working in the Rudolfinerhaus clinic, I'd say you're wrong.


poisoning and allergic reactions are pretty much the same. allergens are like poison to allergics
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 11, 2004, 06:58:35 pm
Reactions, yes.  But an allergic reaction happens in susceptible people in response to some normal stimulus, poisoning happens when any person ingests a substance which causes harm.  

Besides which, the announcement stated he had something like 1000 times the normal level of dioxin (a known carcinogen, one of the first actions of which is chloroacne, hence the skin damage); and that it was a single large dose.
Title: Re: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Carl on December 11, 2004, 08:18:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041210/capt.xkiv10112100917.ukraine_election_xkiv101.jpg)


wow. that looks pretty bad. now that they know what it is, will that help them figure out what to do about it?
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Rictor on December 11, 2004, 09:43:40 pm
Well, alright, poor guy. I do sympathise. But being poisoned does not make him any better or worse a candidate for the presidency, it only makes the other guy a total prick. Specifically, I he think he would make a better Prez, though not the white knight that the media makes him out to be.

Remember, he too in an oligarch (some would argue ex-oligarch), and his support (I don't mean the populist take to the streets kind of support, I mean the kind that matters - financial support) comes from energy giants and neo-libs who pillaged state assets after the fall of communism.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 11, 2004, 09:52:58 pm
Is that damage permanent?
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: ChronoReverse on December 11, 2004, 11:49:41 pm
Fairly, it takes a long time to for the body to break down and get rid of dioxin.  Futhermore, it's a carcinogen so it's not good that he had over 1000X the normal amount in his system.  I hear he's been undergoing blood transfusions, but his organs are still swollen (whatever that means).
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Carl on December 12, 2004, 12:05:37 am
it means they're big and puffy and red.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 12, 2004, 09:23:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Is that damage permanent?


IIRC they say it'll take around 2 years for the chloroacne to clear up on the bbc news article.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: karajorma on December 12, 2004, 09:29:43 am
Not to mention the fact that it's almost certain he'll die of cancer (unless something else gets him fairly quickly).

Dioxin is the chemical responsible for the birth defects and cancer clusters associated with the US's use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Corsair on December 12, 2004, 11:07:59 am
Yeah, Aldo's right. The BBC says it'll take two years for his skin to return to normal. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4089905.stm
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: redmenace on December 12, 2004, 12:25:53 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=322922
If the KGB wanted to kill him I think they would have been a little more successful. What do you think?
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Gank on December 12, 2004, 02:18:35 pm
The KGB/FSB is notorious for poison, you'd think they'd pick one that would actually kill the man though.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Flipside on December 12, 2004, 03:31:52 pm
'Rybachuk said the agents told Yushchenko the goal would not be to kill him but to make him an "invalid" in order to knock him out of the campaign.'

Not meaning to be funny, but since when has the KGB been interested in making 'invalids' out of possible threats?
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 12, 2004, 03:38:57 pm
Since when does the KGB exist anymore?
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Gank on December 12, 2004, 04:12:52 pm
Its called the FSB now, obviously the Ukranians havent been informed of the name change, else they feel KGB sounds worse.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 12, 2004, 04:23:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by redmenace
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=322922
If the KGB wanted to kill him I think they would have been a little more successful. What do you think?


It's probably more politically expedient to blame the KGB / Russians than it is to blame the Ukranian secret service - apparently he was having dinner with the chief of the Ukranian secret service the day before he was taken ill..... doesn't take a genius to draw an insinuation from that.

Of course, it'd probably more valuable to disfigure and disable him than outright kill him; a bitter, ugly (lets be honest here, he does look a mess and image counts in politics...) politician is a far less dangerous enemy than a martyred one.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Flipside on December 12, 2004, 04:30:52 pm
Possibly so, but why use something that would be so obvious to everyone? It practically screams the fact that he has been poisoned, and therefore fingers get pointed.

If you wanted to incapacitate someone like that, it seems odd to be doing it in such a deliberate and obvious way.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Gank on December 12, 2004, 05:33:45 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041212/ap_on_re_eu/romania_election_5
Another coup in the making.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 12, 2004, 05:56:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
Possibly so, but why use something that would be so obvious to everyone? It practically screams the fact that he has been poisoned, and therefore fingers get pointed.

If you wanted to incapacitate someone like that, it seems odd to be doing it in such a deliberate and obvious way.


Well, there's always the possibility it was a ****-up....

Of course, they only got the results now; after the elections.  They probably never anticipated a 'velvet revolution'.  Or maybe they thought he'd pull out due to the illness.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Bobboau on December 12, 2004, 06:04:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14

Of course, it'd probably more valuable to disfigure and disable him than outright kill him; a bitter, ugly (lets be honest here, he does look a mess and image counts in politics...) politician is a far less dangerous enemy than a martyred one.


yeah it's good to have a reminder that somone tryed to kill him every time he is seen.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Gank on December 12, 2004, 06:22:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Of course, they only got the results now; after the elections.  They probably never anticipated a 'velvet revolution'.  Or maybe they thought he'd pull out due to the illness.

The tests only took 24 hours, why wait till now right before the re-election before you run them.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 12, 2004, 06:40:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Gank

The tests only took 24 hours, why wait till now right before the re-election before you run them.


IIRC they didn't announce the results until they had contacted other experts in the field (and sent them off blood, etc, samples), and this was the first time they took a biopsy.

Of course, why wait until now to release this, as opposed to during the election or the post-election period?
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 12, 2004, 10:39:15 pm
At least he isnt stuck that way for the rest of his life, and only 2 years.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: Flipside on December 12, 2004, 10:44:15 pm
Yes, but the odds of him dying of cancer have gone through the roof, iirc Dioxin is the Carcinogenic component of Agent Orange. So he has, most likely, got a short and painful life ahead of him :(
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2004, 02:44:19 am
Not to mention he's now a case study for large-quantity dioxin poisoning; IIRC no-one has ever had that large a single dose before, so they don't know exactly what will happen.  

Reportedly he has a catheter inserted into the back of his spine for injecting painkillers, and his internal organs are covered in tumours.
Title: Yushchenko was poisoned - AP
Post by: karajorma on December 13, 2004, 01:02:43 pm
IIRC Dioxin is one of the most carcinogenic compounds known to man.