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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Sinsearach on December 12, 2004, 12:25:30 pm

Title: (edit:) I'M LAZY --> sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Sinsearach on December 12, 2004, 12:25:30 pm
For space being a vacuum, we sure can hear alot in Freespace 1 and ESPECIALLY in Freespace 2! Would it really kill simulations like these to limit sounds to:

a. music

b. sounds inside the cockpit (gears, levers, buttons beeps, comp nitifications (heart beat/breathing?(to follow the tension/danger of any situation)) etc)

c. transmissions

d. weapons' impacts/collisions/any damage to ship

f. weapons fire (YOUR weapons fire), as it would sound from inside

and NOTHING ELSE. Space is a vacuum after all.

-Laters
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: karajorma on December 12, 2004, 12:30:30 pm
We just had this conversation. Run a search and you'll see what people think of it.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: kode on December 12, 2004, 12:31:55 pm
what is these simulations you're all whining about? fs is not, and has never been, to my knowledge, a simulation.

oh, and what karajorma say
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Overlord on December 12, 2004, 01:31:32 pm
So why got fs2 so many simulation awards?
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: grilox on December 12, 2004, 02:10:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kode
what is these simulations you're all whining about? fs is not, and has never been, to my knowledge, a simulation.

oh, and what karajorma say


Simulation=Simulates something

FS Simulates space travel, therefore it is a simulator.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Ransom on December 12, 2004, 02:41:29 pm
Because that would be bloody boring. Realism is teh lame, especially in a space simulator.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 12, 2004, 03:25:20 pm
The ship's computer provides audio cues to increase the situational awareness of the pilot.

The music is calming, which helps the pilot stay focused.

Problem solved.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Roanoke on December 12, 2004, 03:43:18 pm
deja vu amyone ?
Title: Re: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 12, 2004, 04:43:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sinsearach
For space being a vacuum, we sure can hear alot in Freespace 1 and ESPECIALLY in Freespace 2! Would it really kill simulations like these to limit sounds to:

a. music

b. sounds inside the cockpit (gears, levers, buttons beeps, comp nitifications (heart beat/breathing?(to follow the tension/danger of any situation)) etc)

c. transmissions

d. weapons' impacts/collisions/any damage to ship

f. weapons fire (YOUR weapons fire), as it would sound from inside

and NOTHING ELSE. Space is a vacuum after all.

-Laters


Not kill simulation. Will kill game.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: FireCrack on December 12, 2004, 04:58:15 pm
FFS the other thread about this is till on the first page!!!!
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: kode on December 12, 2004, 05:43:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Overlord
So why got fs2 so many simulation awards?


why does britney spears albums sell?
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Nuke on December 12, 2004, 06:07:29 pm
simulators do not suck. atmosphereic flight has to be realisticly simulated to be fun for me. spaceflight on the other hand, is no fun with full on physics.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Sinsearach on December 13, 2004, 07:05:13 am
Realism kills them? Riiiiight...well you have to draw the line somewhere. Specifically: we're in space, correct? I don't want to hear another ship zipping past with a *WOOSH* like I passed some car on the freeway where there is plenty of AIR; OR and explosion thats a mile away assuming the same damn thing! *sigh* lets just add some spells and elves...

BTW, it may be in the FUTURE, but it's still more simulation than anything, no discussion.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2004, 07:10:14 am
I would say that FS2 is as much of a simulation as R-type or Gradius are/were.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Ransom on December 13, 2004, 07:25:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sinsearach
Realism kills them? Riiiiight...well you have to draw the line somewhere.

It would be boring. I don't care if it's realistic or not, but it wouldn't be half as exciting without all those sounds. It's like watching an action film but only hearing the voices. No impact.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: TrashMan on December 13, 2004, 08:00:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r
The ship's computer provides audio cues to increase the situational awareness of the pilot.

The music is calming, which helps the pilot stay focused.

Problem solved.


What he said. The army (air force) is allready experimenting with audio simulation helmets...
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: kode on December 13, 2004, 08:35:48 am
if you don't want the sounds, effin edit the effin .vps.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2004, 08:57:57 am
NB: What does FS2 actually simulate, anyways?
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Overlord on December 13, 2004, 09:27:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by grilox


Simulation=Simulates something

FS Simulates space travel, therefore it is a simulator.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Zarax on December 13, 2004, 09:30:32 am
err...
I hope you aren't serious guys...
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2004, 09:33:41 am
but, y'see it doesn't simulate space travel; there's no modelling of physics, engine thrust / fuel, oxygen / co2 supply devices, reactor system dynamics, local-level damage.......etc.

All it simulates is linear translation along an axis+some rotation/speed stuff.  It's as much a space simulation as Half Life 2 is a walking simulation.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Japong on December 13, 2004, 09:36:21 am
If you're going to simulate that,  then you're going to have to deal with at least Newtonian physics as well... you know, inertia, in space, and the fact that all of ships fly like they're WWII fighter planes, pitching and yaw-ing in space.  

This is always something that astounds me on these boards.  People will always carry on  and on about canon and "that's not the way things work in the FS universe" but jesus, the FS universe is physics and reality-light at best. No one would ever mistake this game for an actual space flight simulator (read : NASA).  

The game is designed to be fun. Complaining about being able to hear sound in space is like complaining about being able to rocket jump in Quake deathmatch - "YOU'D BLOW YOUR LEGS CLEAN OFF! You should have to take time out to bandage yourself instead of running over a health pack!" Sure man. You mod the game so it plays like that, the rest of us will be over here having a good time.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2004, 10:14:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Japong
If you're going to simulate that,  then you're going to have to deal with at least Newtonian physics as well... you know, inertia, in space, and the fact that all of ships fly like they're WWII fighter planes, pitching and yaw-ing in space.  

This is always something that astounds me on these boards.  People will always carry on  and on about canon and "that's not the way things work in the FS universe" but jesus, the FS universe is physics and reality-light at best. No one would ever mistake this game for an actual space flight simulator (read : NASA).  


To be fair, that bit is really about consistency with the game series rather than factual reality.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Nuke on December 14, 2004, 02:15:39 am
ships in fs2 fly nothing like WWII fighter planes. aerodynamic flight involves the balencing of the 4 forces of flight (weight, lift, drag and thrust), while spaceflight is more about controling a natural drift. in both cases, great care is taken to keep craft under control. freespace does not require this, so the player can focus on combat. theres no way to loose control of your ship in this game, while in cfs3, theres always the possility of smashing your plane belly first into the ground because of a wing stall. this would not be acceptable for most people who play freespace.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 14, 2004, 02:38:43 am
We never said FS was an accurate simulator.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Carl on December 14, 2004, 04:13:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by kode
if you don't want the sounds, effin edit the effin .vps.


or better yet, unplug your speakers.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Overlord on December 14, 2004, 07:32:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
All it simulates is linear translation along an axis+some rotation/speed stuff.

Meaning it's still a simulation.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2004, 07:35:26 am
In which case every game ever made is a simulation, so the term 'simulation' is completely useless as a descriptive or distinguishing term.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Japong on December 14, 2004, 09:16:12 am
Nuke : I'm saying the fighters in FS fly far more like a WWII dog fight than "actual" space combat - if that were ever to happen.

The FS fighters turn and roll after each other, trying to get on each others tails, and fire guns -you get a wide array of airplane maneuvers that really shouldn't work in space happening as well.  This is the kind of behaviour that would never ever work in space using any kind of traditional propulsion system.  Real space travel (and space fight, if you must) would be a lot more like 2001: A Space Odyssey than Star Wars.

There would definetly be no guns,  if there were any they would aim independently of the nose of your ship at the very least. You'd be moving so incredibly quickly it would be near-impossible to see your opponent until they went rushing by you, which of course you wouldn't hear, and everything would be quite dark (I think, I'm not really sure though... the colourful nebulae backgrounds are usually a no-go though).  Combat would be done almost exclusively with missiles, and be like air combat circa 2004: you'd get a radar blip from WAY beyond visual range, launch your missile,  see it streak off out of eye shot, and 20 minutes later find out it hit. Either that or you never detected the guy, and he blows you up, which would simply happen out of the blue.

Of course, this lack of realism makes the game far more fun,  as spending as much time slowing down your ship via having to turn around and produce thrust in the opposite direction, or firiing retro-rockets, would be a headache, and make guns useless, as all the ships would be able to strafe in any direction. The "space" part is modeled by removing gravity from the airplane physics - so yes, no stalls, spin outs, smashing into the ground...
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Flipside on December 14, 2004, 06:32:06 pm
It's a frigging game FFS!

It's not a simulator, if you want to play a space simulator, buy Space Shuttle for the Spectrum and spend many happy hours pressing buttons to transfer air/fuel all over your ship and burn up in re-entry. Or Frontier where you joust with enemy ships at 300km/s and take 15 minutes to turn round for the next run.

All FS is is a FPS set in Space rather than in a building, it never pretended to be anything else.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: kode on December 14, 2004, 06:47:31 pm
FPS = Fist Person Simulator
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Flipside on December 14, 2004, 06:48:16 pm
First Person Shooter, at least as far as I was aware.

Look, it's like the Sims 2, it's advertised as a 'Life Simulator' but it isn't, that's sales talk. If it were a life simulator then there would be murders and gangs and drug dealers etc, but there isn't, why? Because it would reduce the accessability of the game.
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Carl on December 14, 2004, 07:50:35 pm
well...maybe in an expansion pack...:nervous:
Title: sound in a vacuum...
Post by: Flipside on December 14, 2004, 07:55:37 pm
hehehehe I look on the Sims site sometimes, the current favourite still seems to be 'I want my Sims to have horrible accidents and be disabled so that they can roll around in wheelchairs, and it would sooooooo funny if one fell down the stairs....' :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: