Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: Kie99 on December 18, 2004, 11:00:59 am
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Mine is that when ship are travelling in subspace they have to "Fly" to an exit point to get back into normal space. In Good Luck (the only canon subspace mission) the Lucifer doesn't move at all but just sits there waiting to escape subspace.
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Dozens. Misspellings, ridiculous use of the wave function, poor quality mission design etc. etc. But these are all big issues I guess - If we're talking little trivial things, I hate when the briefing is done poorly. I mean, is it really so hard to make sure you align your grids before saving the view? Or ensure all the ships are labelled correctly, and when you click on them, you get the right class of ship spinning in the little box? It's so simple to do well, yet people so often screw it up.
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I'm gonna have to go look again...but I could sworn the Lucy was cruisin' along at 15m/s
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Do what you said.
]It wasn't
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Directive text (see: lack of) sucks ass.
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Mission critical ships not appearing on the escort list.
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no Voice Acting or new music... i know its not trivial but hey :D
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Misspellings and bad grammar. :p It breaks up the flow of the mission because I have to stop for a moment, mentally correct the error and then continue on. If I have to do this a few times it really kills the immersion.
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Missing departure directive text gets on my tits. I'm looking at you Blaise Russel.
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I do departure directive texts. No idea what you're talking about.
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Every time I encounter briefings with repetitions over repetitions, I get the impression that the lots of talk is included to fix the lack of mission content. It's a mission briefing, straight to the point, nothing else.
Worst case scenario : repetetive briefing with spelling and grammar errors.
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being able to fly the mara. I hate it when people don't do proper team loadouts. hell it takes all of 8 seconds and is probably the most overlooked thing in existence.
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Total lack of directive text doesn't bother me so much...but when you only get directives for three or four of the wings that enter the mission, and there are ten or so...
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
I do departure directive texts. No idea what you're talking about.
Earlier missions in Homesick were missing directive text. I was only being half serious tho.
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'Systems' with 2 jump nodes convienently 3k away from each other, on a 2D plane and there is no other stellar traffic around (they would be a great place to tax if anything).
Oh yes, just the general whole 2D thing with many missions, I used to do it (probably still do-goes to check mission, and try to finish it).
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No. Having just checked them, they all have 'Depart' directives, generally in an event called 'DirDepart' - unless they're red-alerts, in which case they don't count. While severely flawed, directive omission is not one of Homesick's failings.
So apologise for your filthy act of libel, you dirty evil slanderer, you. :)
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Misspellings and bad grammar. :p...
You know, people can do something to fix bugs/add ships to escort list etc., but some of us can do almost nothing to make grammar/spelling correct. Easy for you to blame people for bad grammar and poor spelling.
People on this board tend to forget that English is not the native language of all human beings.
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I'm not singling anyone out. Some of the most egregious spelling and grammar mistakes are made by those who speak English.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Misspellings and bad grammar. :p It breaks up the flow of the mission because I have to stop for a moment, mentally correct the error and then continue on. If I have to do this a few times it really kills the immersion.
I'd have to second this. You can be playing a really great mission, and have to pause and go into the message log every time something new comes up, in order to decipher what is being said. Very annoying.
Also, newbie campaigns which manage to incorporate every possible FS cliche (OMG! Teh Shivans have joined up with HOL and Admiral Bosch to destroy us all!!!!111). They're a complete waste of time to play...
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Originally posted by Fergus
'Systems' with 2 jump nodes convienently 3k away from each other, on a 2D plane and there is no other stellar traffic around
*cough ExodusfromFS1providescanonicalevidenceforthis cough*
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Yeah, the mission designers in Exodus made a mistake. They could just have easily used waypoints. Unfortunately, it set the precedent for everyone else to make the same mistake. :p
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Not just Exodus in FS1 either. Take a close look at Clash of the Titans II in FS2. Both the Vega and Epsilon Pegasi nodes are visible (although further apart than in Exodus).
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Originally posted by karajorma
Not just Exodus in FS1 either. Take a close look at Clash of the Titans II in FS2. Both the Vega and Epsilon Pegasi nodes are visible (although further apart than in Exodus).
Oh yeah. And don't forget the scenery in High Noon, either. Or the third Knossos in Into the Lion's Den... :nervous:
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Since, so far as I can tell, there is no reason for a ship to come out of subspace because of interaction with natural objects like planets, or Terran/Vasudan/Shivan-made objects (at least, canonically there isn't and for all we know your intrasystem jump's path could take you straight through the system star if you want), they really couldn't do it with waypoints, since there would be no reason for the ships to be there.
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No background.
It makes the whole thing look so boring, nebulas and planets bring the whole thing alive. Even some of :V:'s missions fall pray to this... *coughEndgamecough*
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high noon only had one mistake (the lack of planets was supposed to emulate the 'everyone-goes-inside-sos-not-to-be-shot' thing in westerns, i think) and that was make it a showdown with JUGGERNOUGHTS. anything smaller than a destroyer would have been fine (and pretty cool...) but a juggernought just takes too long.
as for nodes... the nodes dont overlap eachother. and also, ships have to recharge engines (not much, methinks, though) and reset their coordinates (dont ask me what it means... i dunno...) before jumping again. you have to jump into a system to get to the other node, even if its only a few centimeters away. thats MY logic, and im done butchering it for now.
Some of the most egregious spelling and grammar mistakes are made by those who speak English.
*coughcoughAMERICANScough*
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Planets with black bits which are placed directly on top of nebula backgrounds, so you can see the bloody great black border. Or missions designed to only be played in a particular way, over a set sequence of actions.
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Originally posted by Axem
*coughEndgamecough*
It takes place in Gamma Draconis, which "has no planets and no viable resources." ;)
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Explain the nebulas in "A Lion at the Door" and "A Flaming Sword" then. :p
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the main fredder at [V] was drunk when making EndGame
its the worst mission of them all...
except those when you have to protect the aquitaine from the asteroids... or was it the Iceni?
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That's the Iceni.
[EDIT]I wrote something stupid, so it was best I fixed it.
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endgame? thats the one when the iceni escapes. the sath blows up in 'high noon'.
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^ The man above is right ^
Why do you think EndGame is bad? It is a good one!
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The mission was fine, I'm just bugged by the complete absence of any sort of background.
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My personal pet peeve for user-created campaigns is the "Tie Defender syndrome", where the player is out-fitted with every overpowered gadget available, and has to single-handidly save the day from the big galactic evil.
I prefer campaigns where the player is just a grunt in a war, who like everyone else has an important part to play.
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I agree. When you make your missions, make damn sure you have a good reason for giving the player the weapons and ships they have.
If they're not in an elite squadron, there is no damn way they're getting Kaysers, Maxims, Trebuchets, or Helios bombs. The Naval Procurement Office doesn't just give those things out the way they do with Subachs, Prom-R's and Rockeyes.
Speaking of which, a lot of people (mission designers in particular) tend to think that the Prom-S completely replaced the Prom-R the second it could be produced again. That is only partially true. Remember that the GTVA's argon supplies, post-FS1, depended solely on the nebula beyond Gamma Drac, and so they could only have produced Prom-S's for a limited period of time (maybe 6 months to a year, depending on how much argon they had collected during the GTVA's on-again-off-again control of the nebula). Hardly enough to match the numbers of the Prom-R, and definitely not the Subach.
Believe me when I say, in HFH you'll use the Prom-R and like it. :drevil:
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Speaking of which, a lot of people (mission designers in particular) tend to think that the Prom-S completely replaced the Prom-R the second it could be produced again. That is only partially true. Remember that the GTVA's argon supplies, post-FS1, depended solely on the nebula beyond Gamma Drac, and so they could only have produced Prom-S's for a limited period of time (maybe 6 months to a year, depending on how much argon they had collected during the GTVA's on-again-off-again control of the nebula). Hardly enough to match the numbers of the Prom-R, and definitely not the Subach.
Believe me when I say, in HFH you'll use the Prom-R and like it.
That's the same with my campaign, player will have Mekhus, Prom-Rs and Akhetons. With Rockeyes, Tempests and now Hornets for secondary loadouts. At least until they get to the point where the pilot becomes more important.
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Ehh...some weapons will likely become fairly widespread. There's nothing complicated about the Maxim or how it works, nothing to indicate it being expensive, and I would expect widespread deployment. The GTVA is in the process of a complete upgrade and replacement of their Hornet missiles with Tornados, so I'd expect those to become widespread too. The Tornado is only a modified Hornet, after all.
The Harpoon is standard-issue as well: the reason you didn't see it with the Hammerheads was because your Myrmidon can't carry it, so they didn't bother to authorize you to use it.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
Ehh...some weapons will likely become fairly widespread. There's nothing complicated about the Maxim or how it works, nothing to indicate it being expensive, and I would expect widespread deployment.
I disagree. Maxims are horrendously effective against capital ships. Just one wing of Maxim-equipped fighters going rogue, or one shipment of Maxims being stolen, could mean the destruction or disabling of a lot of very expensive hardware, and the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of Allied soldiers.
Case in point: The NTF caused enough damage with the (fairly basic) weaponry it had, and despite their technological and numerical deficiencies they held out against a vastly superior GTVA force for 18 months. Imagine what they could have done had they had Maxims. :shaking:
I'd expect the Navy would limit Maxims to those pilots who had served long enough and well enough to be deemed trustworthy.
The GTVA is in the process of a complete upgrade and replacement of their Hornet missiles with Tornados, so I'd expect those to become widespread too. The Tornado is only a modified Hornet, after all.
True, though I'd expect Hornets to still be used in some quantity until the Tornadoes could be produced enough to replace them.
The Harpoon is standard-issue as well: the reason you didn't see it with the Hammerheads was because your Myrmidon can't carry it, so they didn't bother to authorize you to use it.
Harpoons are pretty common, yeah, but not something they issue to newbie pilots. For instance I don't think a newbie wing piloting Herc 1's would get em.
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Yes, Harpoons are widespread. I think you get authorization to carry the Harpoon and pilot any other craft which can carry the Harpoon happens at the same time.
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i'll point out mine...
bugs.. like
A) ones that make FS2 freeze up
B) tiny little errors done in the freding stage where you have to escort a convoy of large vessels, and one of them is a GTF Ulysses.
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Bad story, and badly designed missions and then, suprise what peoples would not expect me to say is. Bad grammar and spelling in missions.
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You're right, we didn't expect that, nor do we expect every new campaing to have some new unexpected encounter with more Shivans..oh no, never suspect them.
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Backgrounds that are badly done. Nebulas should follow a pattern, a bright center with fainter nebulas around it, a band like the milkyway etc. some structure in them. I hate it when they are splattered wildly over the screen.
And...wrong lighting on the planets. It isn't that hard to set that up correctly, but some people seem to forget about that.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
B) tiny little errors done in the freding stage where you have to escort a convoy of large vessels, and one of them is a GTF Ulysses.
Er - that's not an error in the FREDding stage. That's an error on your end, because you have conflicts with the table files. ;)
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Well it can occassionally be due to the designer leaving a ship out of the VP :)
It's an easy mistake to make :)
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bad, fungus-like overgrown textures...
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Neither that is a FREDing error, unless you blame the FREDer for not having a good taste by putting in ugly-looking ships.
Invalidate this post if you were thinking about overscaled nebula images. I don't like that, too.
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Originally posted by Fergus
You're right, we didn't expect that, nor do we expect every new campaing to have some new unexpected encounter with more Shivans..oh no, never suspect them.
And of course, no one would ever suspect the NTF to somehow procure a fleet out of nowhere and make yet another comeback. :p
Ooh, and just to spice it up, let's have them team up with the HOL, despite being racist against Vasudans! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Mad Bomber
...Ooh, and just to spice it up, let's have them team up with the HOL, despite being racist against Vasudans! :rolleyes:
Download me (http://mods.moddb.com/2704) :thepimp:
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One other thing. Ship names, I hate when people use them badly, or blow up some ship that wasn't meant to blow up. Just bad use of cannon names (I remember seeing a GTC Bastion in a user campaign once...can't remeber which.)
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Well there was a Myrmidon in ST that was an Orion...
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Both TopAce... both
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Originally posted by Fergus
You're right, we didn't expect that, nor do we expect every new campaing to have some new unexpected encounter with more Shivans..oh no, never suspect them.
And of course, no one would ever suspect the NTF to somehow procure a fleet out of nowhere and make yet another comeback.
Mwhahahaha...horror of horrors, I seem to be planning something original.
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Pet peeve : missions where if you play it on "hard" all of your wingmates die about 1/5th of the way through, and you're stuck alone for the rest of it.
"Alpha, we need you to take down that Demon class cruiser!"
Gee thanks, I'm flying a Myrmidon with Hornet missiles and Prom-Rs, and now I have to spend the next hour chiseling away at this cruiser *by myself*.
SImilar problem: Missions with 20 minutes worth of "fluff" (oversee cargo transfer, blow up three herc 1s, escort a transport to way points that are 5 minutes away), and after the fluff, 20 ships jump in and blast the **** out of you. Now you get to play through the fluff all over again!
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
Bad grammar and spelling in missions.
This strikes me as an odd thing for you to post.:doubt:
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SImilar problem: Missions with 20 minutes worth of "fluff" (oversee cargo transfer, blow up three herc 1s, escort a transport to way points that are 5 minutes away), and after the fluff, 20 ships jump in and blast the **** out of you. Now you get to play through the fluff all over again!
Uh oh, if my campaign is ever finished that'll only be the first few missions, I swear! :)
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Originally posted by pecenipicek
Both TopAce... both
This, regarding to overscaled nebulae?
Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
SImilar problem: Missions with 20 minutes worth of "fluff" (oversee cargo transfer, blow up three herc 1s, escort a transport to way points that are 5 minutes away), and after the fluff, 20 ships jump in and blast the **** out of you. Now you get to play through the fluff all over again!
Uh oh, if my campaign is ever finished that'll only be the first few missions, I swear! :)
My point on this is that if I make missions that are long, I do not make them hard, at most I put the tough part at the beginning so you would not lose too much effort if you get blown up or you lose the mission. I confess, one of the JtEP missions is an exception to this, but that is only one example. Anyway that campaign is short, so I had to lengthen its duration with a trick of some sort. ;)
I am joking, that was no point.
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I hate it when there is loads of dialogue during battles and I'm too busy to read it.
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Play on FSO and turn the speech synthesis options on.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
is it really so hard to make sure...you get the right class of ship spinning in the little box? It's so simple to do well, yet people so often screw it up.
Even the main FS2 campaign did that once. cant remember where.
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In the Great Hunt(FS2), where a Cain was indicated as a Lilith.
If the mission name is unfamiliar, it is the mission where you encounter the Ravana first. It blows up the GTCv Lysander and sometimes the Actium as well.
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Originally posted by Fergus
'Systems' with 2 jump nodes convienently 3k away from each other, on a 2D plane
hold on there partner! if you have 3 jump nodes, then they always have to be on the same plane, because three points always make a flat triangle.
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They probably meant the XZ plane, not any old plane.
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I assume he means on a flat plane with everything else in the mission. :)
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You know, it would be pretty funny if a FREDder went out of his way to put all the ships on a single 2D plane... but the plane wasn't aligned on the XY, XZ, or YZ planes in FRED. :p
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aww... the logic... it hurts my head..
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How would anyone tell except by looking in FRED :D
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by sleeping
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You know, it would be pretty funny if a FREDder went out of his way to put all the ships on a single 2D plane... but the plane wasn't aligned on the XY, XZ, or YZ planes in FRED.
That wouldn't be hard, all he'd need to do is put everything on the standard plane, and then once everything was in place, selected it all and move and/or rotate it around. No big deal.
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Rushed over-confident n00b campaigns. Like that one guy with the wierd username made on the NTF awhile ago.
Every mission was near impossible, involving hundreds of fighters attacking Alpha 1, whose wingmen die instantly, leaving everything to him.
Furthermore, grammar was bad, systems were messed up (wrong jump nodes and such), spelling was terrible, and it was generally as if it had never been tested.
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Or possibly he was a massively more skilled player then you (or me) and could beat that many fighters with ease.
Goober: You've inspired me. I'm going to do that.
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Originally posted by pecenipicek
by sleeping
Quit making pointless posts. It's called spamming, and it's annoying.
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i responded to karajorma's inquiry
(i wonder did i spell that right?)
and i know that i sometimes SPAM but its rather rare...
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I think you need to explain it to us then. Cause I didn't understand how it could possibly be a sensible answer to my comment and by the looks of it neither did anyone else.
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I guess he wanted to be witty...
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Stupid [glow=orange][/glow]
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Well, as I've said before, the Fredders here have had a hell of a lot more time to work out how to use Fred than [V] had. So a lot of people here could easily write missions that surpassed the [V] originals.
As for what I don't like in a mission, silly oversights, like in Op. Templar when you chase after the transports like mad, disable the engines, only to watch helplessly as your AI wingman obliterate the target you were supposed to capture.
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That's actually a pretty good point Flip. I've probably spent more time in FRED than any of the [V] Designers ever did. And that doesn't include all the stuff I've learnt from bouncing about ideas on here :)
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man i hated that... in FS1 when you have to capture the vasudan Isis Rasputin when you were barely disable it your wingmen blow it up..
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Overconfident n00bs *glares at pec*
And I hate where the mission designer forgets to remove the Dogfight weaponry from the weapon selection list.
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Originally posted by pecenipicek
man i hated that... in FS1 when you have to capture the vasudan Isis Rasputin when you were barely disable it your wingmen blow it up..
Try using the IGNORE MY TARGET command. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately you can't do that in renegade resurgence :hopping:
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What is exactly the problem with RR? Do you have problems with the mission you have to catch an HoL spy? I have never had any problems with capture operations either in the main FS1 campaign or while testing RR.
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Originally posted by Flipside
As for what I don't like in a mission, silly oversights, like in Op. Templar when you chase after the transports like mad, disable the engines, only to watch helplessly as your AI wingman obliterate the target you were supposed to capture.
Ooh, yes, this is a very good point. It's amusing and incredibly annoying at the same time. Sometimes you're left to fend off both the enemy and your own wingmen from destroying the ship you're meant to capture. :lol:
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1. Large freindly ships you're suposed to escort jumping out without alerting you first or with enough time, for example
The bastion in 2n'd last mission
The aquitane when you get it out of the nebula
Overly good grammar (ok probably not the exact right word) in stressfull infromation
ex
A shivan destroyer, the SD Beezlbub, has jumped in 200 meteres from my position.
vs
A destroyer just jumped in, the Beezlebub!
Unless ofcourse the message broadcaster is vasudan. ;)
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That could be part of the character, though...assuming they actually thought that out.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Overconfident n00bs *glares at pec*
why thank you... im a newb. not a n00b.
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I thought these terms meant the same...
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check out the new theory by Laird on SB.com (kier.3dfrontier.com) and youll se why...
a newb is differntiated from a n00b in his language.
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This may seem a tad nasty (no, very nasty), but to be honest, apart from the really good user-made campaigns (Aeos Affair, Derelict, Warzone etc.) I can never remeber the other ones. They just seem like gap-fillers. So maybe it's that only the most fantastic FREDers should make missions, everyone else 'go home'.
Yup, tad nasty, but aint it the truth?
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no. what happens when when the most fantastic FREDers stop FREDding? we have a big shiny hole here...
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Originally posted by Fergus
This may seem a tad nasty (no, very nasty), but to be honest, apart from the really good user-made campaigns (Aeos Affair, Derelict, Warzone etc.) I can never remeber the other ones. They just seem like gap-fillers. So maybe it's that only the most fantastic FREDers should make missions, everyone else 'go home'.
Yup, tad nasty, but aint it the truth?
No.
Evidently, you are not a FREDder.
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I wouldn't dream of telling any FREDder not to work on campaigns just cause of a lack of skill. You learn only by doing.
What I may do is point them at the FA so they don't have to worry about plot as much while they improve their skills.
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Originally posted by pecenipicek
check out the new theory by Laird on SB.com (kier.3dfrontier.com) and youll se why...
a newb is differntiated from a n00b in his language.
A n00b is impolite, lacks English or other relivant langauge skills, and is annoying in general.
A newbie is someone who is new to the forum/Internet, but in general attempts to be a polite, grammatically correct, and contributing/upstanding forumite/neitizen.
You, sir, are a n00b.
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I thought these terms meant the same...
The word you're looking for is synonymous
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I could have made it shorter using that word, right, but it did not come to mind then. :)
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Originally posted by TopAce
What is exactly the problem with RR? Do you have problems with the mission you have to catch an HoL spy? I have never had any problems with capture operations either in the main FS1 campaign or while testing RR.
THat's the mission, even the transport that's meant to be capturing it fires at it.:sigh:
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That problem has never occured to me, nor did I receive feedback saying it.
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Maybe its just me then...
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Feel free to use cheats without a pang of conscience. Make the transport invulnerable and you have fixed the problem....
I could do the same for you by giving you a version that makes the transport invulnerable after it was disabled. That would make no sense if I did it, since you can do it yourself using cheats.
I am sorry you have the problem, but I do not know how to do anything about it save what I wrote above.
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Just change the transport's IFF to Friendly after it's disabled. Or turret-lock-all on the docking ship.
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It takes more time than simply making the ship invulnerable and the effect is the same. Needless to say that making an additional event with the IFF change SEXP would make some confusion. I do not know what kind of confusion, nothing is predictable in FreeSpace missions.
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:wtf:
Making the ship invulnerable makes even less sense. The only thing dumber than having a docker firing on its dockee is the dockee being invulnerable at the same time.
All three options take the same amount of time, since all three use a single sexp..
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Good thread.. Helps me with my newbie B-campaign :lol:
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That's great to hear. :) Read and learn. :yes:
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Don't know if this has been mentioned yet...
...but misnaming ships. And I don't just mean bad names, but I mean missions involving the escort of the GTD Orion 23 or GTC Leviathan 12.
Or when people name a Leviathan the GTC Piranha. That's just stupid.
Not that anyone does it.
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Or when people name a Leviathan the GTC Pirahna. That's just stupid.
Agreed, and I for one am not going to stand for it. It's Piranha, and anyone who misspells it in the future will have a whole horde of the little fish dumped on them so they won't forget next time. ;)
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Agreed, and I for one am not going to stand for it. It's Piranha, and anyone who misspells it in the future will have a whole horde of the little fish dumped on them so they won't forget next time. ;)
Oops. ;)
Er....
*EDITS*
I don't know what you're talking about. ;)
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It probably would have been better to assume you did...
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Yes, it wqould. :P
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Agreed, and I for one am not going to stand for it. It's Would, and anyone who misspells it in the future will have a whole... forest of... trees dumped on them so they won't forget next time. ;)
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A note on misspellings: I think misspelling the word 'Shivan' to 'Sheevan' is quite forgiveable. Simulated Speech can only correctly pronounce it if it is written with double E instead of a single I.
The way SP pronounces Vasudan is also strange, I haven't tried to find a spelling which pronounces Vasudan correctly.
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Well, considering how every single reference on the web/canon/user-made campaign spells it "Shivan", SP shouldn't have any say in it.
But, whatever.
Biggest peeve: Absence of directives. Especially "Destroy " directives. Gets annoying.
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i don't have the API 5.1 speech thingy in my PC...somebody knows where can i download it??? please...
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Originally posted by willy_principal
i don't have the API 5.1 speech thingy in my PC...somebody knows where can i download it??? please...
Micro$oft.com
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Originally posted by willy_principal
i don't have the API 5.1 speech thingy in my PC...somebody knows where can i download it??? please...
Doesn't clicking the Get Additional Voices button take you to a webpage with the info on it?