Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: WMCoolmon on December 22, 2004, 02:59:46 am
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Are there any campaigns that would benefit from HUD improvements and, if so, what are they?
Don't be shy, but don't ask for something you're not going to use, and don't hesitate to speak up if you want something that another person has asked for. I'm trying to get a good idea of how much interest there is for what - I'm probably going to be poking through the HUD code soon, so if I'm going to add anything I might as well do it then.
Right now, probably the most useful things that should be in the current builds are the ability to define custom HUD gauges in hud_gauges.tbl (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/fsdoc/index.php?pagename=hud_gauges.tbl) and set images/text for them using the hud-set SEXPs. (Defining custom gauges will likely cause FS2 to get caught in an infinite loop, thus the reason for this look-see.)
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"but don't ask for something you're going to use"
not your week for saying what you mean is it :D
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Merrhhhh. :p
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What sort of HUD ? :D
A full integrate HUD into a cockpit will be great, like the X wing Alliance did.
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Anything 2D or maybe something like the targeting computer display.
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do you think you could add the code for the thris promary and fourth secondary bay?
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Oh yah a third primary bay would be great please do it.
(http://x-zoo.narod.ru/images/red_cat.jpg)
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id like a new targeting system thats not as powerfull as the gtva system but more powerfull than primitive sensors. it doesnt allow target selection. id like a self tracking gunsight that automaticly tagrets the closest ship in a 30 degree cone and outputs to a moving reticle (not a convntional lead indicator). wireframe only target info box (scans target tracked by gunsight) only showing wareframe model and hull integrity (no subsystem or turret selection). uses normal radar gauge.
also id like to be able to make the weapon energy gauge display ammo for ballistics weapons, maybey split the gauge so it can display both ammo and energy
implement hud changes required for 3rd primary bank and 4th missile banks possible.
thats all i want
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Missile camera :D
Yeah, I know; complete waste of time and effort and doubtless a massive pain in the arse too......
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What gauges are currently moveable?
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i'd like it if the guns would automatically lock onto and follow the lead indicator if the ship is in a certain cone (specified in TBLs)
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Originally posted by Nuke
also id like to be able to make the weapon energy gauge display ammo for ballistics weapons, maybey split the gauge so it can display both ammo and energy
This would be cool, but there's a potential problem if someone impliments the third primary. Primaries can have their own independent ammo supply (in fact they will in all cases) so the gauge needs to be able to display any combination of energy and ammo weapons that the player can possibly come up with. (One energy (duh), one ammo, one energy and one ammo, two ammo, [two ammo and one energy, and three ammo; if 3 primaries get supported]) Theoretically the energy gauge could always be on the inside and so wouldn't have to move, but the other two slots and potentially the energy slot could be filled with ammo information when ammo weapons are present. It's not impossible, and I have an idea as to how to graphically impliment it, but it's too complicated to post here.
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thats overcomplicating it. its simple, if you have only ammo only or energy only weapons selected its a single gauge and displays the respoective consumeable, if you hav a combination of evergy, ammo, or energy/ammo weapons selected you get the split gauge, one side showing energy, an the other showing ammo. the ammo guages show the average percentage of unconsumed ammo in all selected ammo banks
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But then how do you know if one bank is empty?
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It's probably not easily doable, but I'd like to be able to insert anis with a 256 color palette instead of the standard one with only a few greyscales, and a way to have gauges without transparency.
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Tertiary systems.
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Originally posted by StratComm
But then how do you know if one bank is empty?
by looking at yor ammo counters :D
that is iff you didnt notice that one of your guns stopped working.
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probably a *true* 3D radar as seen in Battlezone, X-Beyond the Frontier, Aquanox, and co :)
Really just more of eyecandy work, but I like the style way better than the regular Freespace style radar.. for some reason I can see quicker where something is :)
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3d radars are already implemented.
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Originally posted by Nuke
also id like to be able to make the weapon energy gauge display ammo for ballistics weapons, maybey split the gauge so it can display both ammo and energy
Pending some testing and likely a bit more recoding, I think I have a solution for this.
It's also compatible with as many primaries as you like :drevil:
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Originally posted by Lynx
What gauges are currently moveable?
The shield display for the player, the shield display for target, the target shield gauge in the center of the screen, player afterburner energy, player weapon energy, and the escort list.
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I'd need at least the comm menue/window, speed gauge and 3d targeting view too, if possible.
And another question: You can set it up in the otions menue to be toggleable(i.e. they show only up when needed). If you set up more gauges that way does the gauge you used previously dissappear as soon as you use press a key for another gauge?I can't confirm it since my install of FS currently doesn't work, and I'd like to set aup an MFD like system for the less important gauges, puttung them all at the same space of the screen, and make only that gauge that you use currently show. If the gauges remains visible for a short period even if you work now with another one currently, they'll then be overlaid.
Oh and is it possible to make the engine create a save file for the HUD color configuration brecause for WCS I'd like to create a WCish color sheme for the HUD and iclude it for the release so that those who want a WCish HUD don't have to set it up all for themselves but can shoose that instead.
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Solution for nuke; I only used primaries in these screenies but they'll work for secondaries as well.
Which do y'all like better? (Note the currently selected weapon is highlighted.)
I'll look into making the comm menu as movable as well.
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Minor question: would it be possible to have a graphic instead of text for the weapons?
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Hmm, you'd have to
- add an entry to weapons.tbl
- add a variable to hold the filename
- modify the listing code to show the image instead of the weapon name
So yes. Is that how you want it to work?
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Here's a graphic to illustrate:
(http://www.starman.ag5.de/pics/hellcat_weapon.jpg)
Ignore the text written there. I'd like to have a basic sheme of the fighter you are currently flying and the graphics for the guns overlayed over it and depending on which gun you have selected the corredponding graphic is highlighted.
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Originally posted by Lynx
3d radars are already implemented.
I'm aware of that spheroid thingy (that doesn't work properly for me) that's available.. don't get me wrong, it's awesome that anyone at all cares to program something like this, it's just not.. like the ones I'm used to (or rather the ones I like) :nod:
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The feature is already implemented, the spheroid thingy is only a placeholder until some modeller decides to model a better looking one. It's not a coding issue, but an artistic one.
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Ah...well, it's possible, but I'd have to convert the entire weapons list to work with hud_gauges.tbl
New feature
At any rate, you can use +HUD Image: (Goes right above $Model file: ) to override the text display of the weapon name in the weapon list with an image.
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I thin that'd be enough already, thanks.
But is there a way to implement HUD graphics that aren't semi transparent like now? I'd like to have a really blue HUD, but with the semi-transparency thing the black space always shines through and I can't see ****.
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Would it be possible to implement the HUD into a full 3D Cockpit, like this screen from the TBP (i find it in this forums (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,23108.0.html))
(http://b5.madaboutgames.com/cockpit1.jpg)
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Careful, some people here **** bricks whenever 3d cockpits come up for wgatever reason.
IIRC PHreak worked on it a while ago. I'd really like that too.
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Personnaly, it will give to Fs2 or to mods more immersion into the universe.
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becase weve said four thosand times that nobody wants to do it.
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AFAIK there's already been worked on but there were issiues with z-buffering alowing things to pass trough the mesh.
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Bobb --> sorry, i didn't know that.
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I had an idea...a really, really, optimistic one perhaps, but...what about using the same function used for the targeting computer to render the cockpit?
Only problem I can think of is if when the model is rendered it doesn't have a transparent bg.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I had an idea...a really, really, optimistic one perhaps, but...what about using the same function used for the targeting computer to render the cockpit?
Only problem I can think of is if when the model is rendered it doesn't have a transparent bg.
Back before I realised I didn't have a compiler for the code, that's what I meant to investigate...........
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Solution for nuke; I only used primaries in these screenies but they'll work for secondaries as well.
Which do y'all like better? (Note the currently selected weapon is highlighted.)
I'll look into making the comm menu as movable as well.
i kinda wanted something consistant with the existing hud but this system is nice, i think the first one would look good on ammo weapons. and the third on energy weapons.
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I thought about that but it seemed to me like it would be more confusing and take up more space.
I 'spose I could add the first set of gauges to the usual energy bar config for ammo weapons. The problem then is if someone tries to use 640x480, there won't be enough room to place the gauges.
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Place them by % of screen instead of by pixel? (if that's what you're doing now?) or scale them?
I still play in lo-res...I enjoy slightly higher framerates.:)
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Fix the problem where the target data displayed next to the target (that thing activated by the -targetinfo flag or whatever it is), where it will override the alternate name and display the table designated name regardless.
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Fix the problem where the target data displayed next to the target (that thing activated by the -targetinfo flag or whatever it is), where it will override the alternate name and display the table designated name regardless.
I think it's fixed. Are you using 3.6.5?
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HUD code has always confused me, so you may have already answered this but can we define new HUD guages and insert strings into them with sexps yet?
My ideal example is a very simple one - an altimeter.
every-time
- Return-HUD-Guage
- - Altimeter
- get position y
- - Alpha 1
Or whatever.
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If everything works right, once a Custom HUD item is defined in hud_gauges.tbl, you'd use something like this:
every-time
- hud-set-gauge
-- "Altimeter"
-- get-position-y
----Alpha 1
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3d cockpit or not, it'd be cool if there were different "styles" of Hud that differed from ship to ship according to either ship class, age, or current tech research levels.. like, well
FS1 era: solid single-color huds
FS2 era: multicolored Hud
beyond: Holography glowy HUD
you get my point anyway.
pity we can't also have a HUD startup sequence, as if you've just switched on main power and the ship's systems are booting up.
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Or a hud flicker-on-hit.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Or a hud flicker-on-hit.
that's sorta already there, the EMP effect. but yeah, a slight HUD flicker when the ship takes a hit would be a tad more useful than a red screen on hit.
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Mmh, I still think it would be cool to have the HUD trail like in Iwar, makes dogfights easier, since you can follow your target and know what it's doing ( about ) even if it goes out of the screen, which counterbalances the fact you don't have padlock to actually follow it with your eyes.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Solution for nuke; I only used primaries in these screenies but they'll work for secondaries as well.
Oooh...neato.
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i still want my k-12 style gunsight.
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I like those new ammo gauges, but I think they'd look better if they looked like the original energy bar, ie. the curved one that follows the reticle edges. Looking very cool, though. :yes:
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Yeah, as it is they unballance the center of the HUD too much. And I'm not opposed to having the name where it's always been, just place the ammo reserves in the same place as the energy bar.
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Tey're good as they are, keep them that way.
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Originally posted by Nico
Mmh, I still think it would be cool to have the HUD trail like in Iwar, makes dogfights easier, since you can follow your target and know what it's doing ( about ) even if it goes out of the screen, which counterbalances the fact you don't have padlock to actually follow it with your eyes.
well i already did the orb, which is about 1/3 the awesome IW2 targeting code. another hot thing in space games is a target list ala IW2 and FL
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yeah, definitively. And the possibility to switch on/off names directly on screen ( when turned on, all the stuff on screen is like targeted, with its name next to it. Would be very handy, no need to go through the whole target list to find which cargo is C-27, you know, the one you have to scan :p ).
Pah, all that really makes me wanna play again, but I have a radeon, and I want specular to work first, so voila :p
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cat 4.4 :p
Unless it's a radeon 9200, in which case, you're boned :p
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it's a 9700 :P
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Do you still take suggestions?
If so, would it be possible to make HUD gauges use a standard 256 color palette with black as transparency color?
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Originally posted by Raa
Unless it's a radeon 9200, in which case, you're boned :p
Or an X800, because the 4.4 drivers don't support them.
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Originally posted by Lynx
Do you still take suggestions?
If so, would it be possible to make HUD gauges use a standard 256 color palette with black as transparency color?
I'm not sure. It's possible, but whether I can figure out enough of the low-level code to integrate it is another matter.
i still want my k-12 style gunsight.
Screenie? A different reticule for different weapons, settable via weapons.tbl...that's definitely possible.
I like those new ammo gauges, but I think they'd look better if they looked like the original energy bar, ie. the curved one that follows the reticle edges. Looking very cool, though.
The curved one is an image, and I didn't want to add another image - it would also unbalance the HUD. I thought about putting 'em in the center, but that seemed like a bad idea since it could obscure items of interest. And putting them on the left side would make no sense at all.
You can still set their position with hud_gauges.tbl; they show up about 10 pixels to the right of where the normal weapons energy gauge would appear. (Do a search for hud_gauges.tbl if you're interested, or "Shield Mini" perhaps, there's definitely a list of valid gauges somewhere.)
Edit: Also a note, when I said "primaries but work for secondaries as well", I meant energy and ballistic primaries. Secondaries, you still have to check the numbers in the weapons list.
But it'd be a piece of cake to add bars for secondaries. Except in 640x480. :p
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Back before I realised I didn't have a compiler for the code, that's what I meant to investigate...........
Incidentally, aldo, have you checked out the 'Free compiler for FSSCP' thread?
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Shouldn't be too hard
Everything on the HUD is thinly outlined in black. I hate it when I'm in really bright nebulas and messages are being sent. Then I have to go into options and change the HUD so its really dark, then when I go into normal space I can't read any messages because the HUD is too dark. Pressing L is completely inadequate.
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Would it be possible to make an option where the speed readout is a simple number instead of an animation going up and down? For the HUD I'm planning I'd need to completely get rid of the ring thing around the reticle with all the useless stuff there(the speed gauge is the only viable thing there) and have it displayed at the top middle of the screen.
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i dont want individule reticles for each weapon (thou i think some would find a use for it). what i want is a new style of lead indicator which reduses screen clutter. probibly entering it as an optional gauge in the hudgauges.tbl
to show what i mean i made dhis example
(http://server3.uploadit.org/files/nukebomb-k12lead.jpg)
the reticle is no longer fixed point and is free to move across the hud. instead of ligning up two gauges you are instead ligning one gauge with the ship. the distance from the new gauge to the hud center is equal to the distance between the lead indicator and the ship (assuming the ship was in a position to be hit). placing the circle over the ship would be about the same as ligning up the fixed reticle to a lead indicator. another idea is to vary the size of the circle to indicate hit probibility or scatter effect of weapons.
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:wtf: If the red reticle is always moving, how do oyu know where to fire?
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I'm confused...would the recticule be controlled by the mouse then?
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like
$tracking
in that weapon flags thread ???
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No, even a silly duck like me understood what he meant :p
on that right pic, the circle is not a targeting bracket, it's a conbination of both the reticle and the lead indicator. That circle moves according to your aiming, to the ship position and speed, so you have to move your ship in a way that circle goes above your target. When it does, you'll hit.
That said, I think it's really awkward, and gives the pilot even less situation awareness.
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no the reticles position is calculated so that putting the ship in the circle will cause a probible hit. its very similar to the way early radar gunsights operated.
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Isn't that what I said?
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Might be useful for something like the TVWP, or an other pre-fs1 campain. Heck, even for a pirate-using-outdated-technology-campaign.
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Originally posted by Nico
Isn't that what I said?
yes, but notice howi used fewer words :D
i basicly want it for use on pirate ships in nukemod r3 (wich should be out sometime in the next year) :D
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Yes, it's very good and well that when the circle is over the ship you hit it, but where is it supposed to appear? :p
Is it supposed to appear where your shots will end up when they reach the distance that the targeted ship is at?
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the reticle will apear the same distance from the center of the ship as the normal reticle would the lead indicator, but in reverse.
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So if you were to move both the lead indicator and the normal recticule at the same time, the lead indicator would end up at the center of the ship and become invisible, and the normal recticule would become a large circle? That's how it works? (Probably not how I'll do it, but whatever.)
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What it is is that, instead of the lead reticle being where you have to put the crosshair to hit your target, it becomes that the crosshairs move around apropriate to your targets distance, orientation, and speed and one your crosshair is over the target, boom.
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exactly
and all ya have to do is change around some vector maths add a new graphic and boom, ya managed to make me shut of for 3 minutes :D
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:blah:
I'm like Khan...I don't think well in 3D. Or even in 2D sometimes, for that matter. :p
Right now, if I understood the hud stuffs correctly, it finds the point in space where teh ship will be when your weapons are at the same distance as it and then maps it onto the 2D HUD.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Incidentally, aldo, have you checked out the 'Free compiler for FSSCP' thread?
(woo...late reply!)
Yeah, but I'm working nowadays (at least for the next 7 weeks.....)
There's not the same motivation for programming in my spare time when I'm spending 9 hours a day doing it already.
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Meh, too bad.
I'll be poking around with that code sometime soon...does anyone have a 3D cockpit model? (In POF format, so I can't fudge something up in the conversion process. :p)
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Meh, too bad.
I'll be poking around with that code sometime soon...does anyone have a 3D cockpit model? (In POF format, so I can't fudge something up in the conversion process. :p)
Depends what you need. I have some fairly hi-poly (relative terms) cockpits done for models which I can adapt. Unless you wanted to try loading the actual entire ship pof itself (i.e. being able to see exterior details and all.... it's be messy in terms of design and polycount, but a sensible modeller would be able to work with that and scrap the unecessary details such as undersides...)
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Just a cockpit, specifically, the part you'd want to see with the front view. I don't think an entire cockpit would work with the code used for the targeting computer.
Anything further than that will have to wait, unless I want a break from my current SCP project :nervous:.
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Well, Nukes HUD would reduce screen clutter as he puts it, BUT you would to move your focus away from the axis, which to my believe leads to worse oversight in dogfights: to follow your primaries you'd still look straight ahead then back to the target then watch the hit (or miss) then look for the next target off center, to controll your course agein straight ahead and so on I would call such REM...
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Just a cockpit, specifically, the part you'd want to see with the front view. I don't think an entire cockpit would work with the code used for the targeting computer.
Anything further than that will have to wait, unless I want a break from my current SCP project :nervous:.
Any idea of the size required?
I'll jiffy up a very crude concept model tonight. Most of the cockpits I've made (or rather, those one the models) are designed to have a big clear glass view, natch.
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Originally posted by quadrophoeniX
Well, Nukes HUD would reduce screen clutter as he puts it, BUT you would to move your focus away from the axis, which to my believe leads to worse oversight in dogfights: to follow your primaries you'd still look straight ahead then back to the target then watch the hit (or miss) then look for the next target off center, to controll your course agein straight ahead and so on I would call such REM...
mind you this is the same kinda lead incicator you find on fighterplanes today. any combat flight manual will tell you that its not a good idea to lock your eyes on a single point on the hud. this lead indicator would of course be optional via the hud_gauges.tbl so that it doesnt screw with cannon.
a cool feature of the virtual cockpit would be to map the hud out onto actual geometry, so that you could model a working hud into the virtual cockpit. generally speaking cockpits without working gauges or moving parts tend to be very boring. also you could use the hud_gauges.tbl to map out non-hud gauges for the ships control panel. you would need some sort of alpha blending to make it work. the problem is makeing things like lead indicators and aspect lock lign up the where they are supposed to be. the best bet would be to make the view angle square with the hud model and from a set distance, so that gauge positions could be properly calculated.
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To-scale, ie 'life'-size in Freespace scale.
Nuke, one feature at a time :p (Mapping gauges onto a texture, which AFAIK simply can't be done without lower-level graphics work.)
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i just get excited when stuff i want gets implemented :D
really vcs arent that high on my wish list cause id have to make them for all 12 of my new fighters.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
To-scale, ie 'life'-size in Freespace scale.
Nuke, one feature at a time :p (Mapping gauges onto a texture, which AFAIK simply can't be done without lower-level graphics work.)
This is a bit of rush chop-socky job off of a bomber, so it isn't pretty - it's literally cut out of the model. It is at least properly scaled, tho. There's no pof data added.
(http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/temp/cp_testView.jpg)
(suggested rough view. Could use this if you wanted to test 2d cockpits, i guess)
pof + maps; http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/temp/cpTest.zip
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Excapt that ~50% of the view is obstructed. :blah:
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Originally posted by Raa
Excapt that ~50% of the view is obstructed. :blah:
Originally posted by aldo_14
This is a bit of rush chop-socky job off of a bomber, so it isn't pretty - it's literally cut out of the model.
Just be glad I deleted the HUD; this was built for eye level of the pilot model, not player use.
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Can also use my cockpit, just remove the useless bits ( pilot, sides, etc ). I believe the map s higher res than Aldo's one :D ( and it's the actual FS cockpit too :p )
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That's a freaking good idea actually...then once (IF) the SCP ever has real dynamic lighting the HUD area can be lit by the actual lighting if any shine near the windows...man, imagine flying past an Orion and having its running lights illuminate your cockpit like the lamp lights on the interstate...or having the binary stars of a system shine double shadows of two colors on your cockpit's side panels...
mmmmmmmmmm.......
I say why not? BRING ON THE EYECANDY! and if some dont want it, then bring on the commandline toggler switches!
*waits with great anticipation for the possibility of a universal HTL cockpit model made with the FS2 cockpit*
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To differentiate between different ships that have the same cockpit by the way, why not add a new feature:
allow people to see the exterior of their ship from inside the cockpit if they want to? Certain vessels have their parts extend juuuust enough that one should in theory be able to see their own ship's wings or nose from the safety of their own cockpit. Would aid in judging distance from a vessel before your bomber smacks into it trying to do a torp run.
As of yet, I know of VERY few space games I've played where you can peek out the front and actually see your ship's real exterior (the actual model others see) from its cockpit.
on the downside of course, this means that pilots of the GTF Ulysses will have their view slightly obstructed on both sides by the two wings on the side. But an addition like I've proposed would GREATLY add to the funfactor and "you're there" feeling...
GOAL: To be flying a SF Manticore (Terrans) and see the two spiky Shivan columns that extend on both sides from its cockpit VISIBLE on both sides, unleashing their red lasers of death on those I attack.
If this concept is implemented it will pave the way for potential future endeavors like capital ship piloting where you are on the bridge of an orion and can actually see the rest of your ship from its bridge windows...
Think about it :)
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For the record, I did work on the 3D HUD model today for a bit. With my virtually nonexistent 3D object manipulation skills, I put together this:
//Do 3D cockpit model
vector camera_eye = {0.0f,0.0f,0.0f};
vector orient_vec = {0.0f,0.0f,0.0f};
vector obj_pos = {0.0f,0.0f,0.0f};
vector up_vector = {0.0f,0.0f,0.0f};
matrix camera_orient = IDENTITY_MATRIX;
float factor = 2;
float Hud_target_object_factor = 2.2f;
//I know this is wrong.
int cp_model = -1;
cp_model = model_load("cockpitTest.pof", 0, NULL, 0);
vm_vec_normalize(&orient_vec);
vm_vector_2_matrix(&camera_orient,&orient_vec,&up_vector,NULL);
vm_vec_copy_scale(&obj_pos,&orient_vec,factor);
// hud_render_target_setup(&camera_eye, &camera_orient, 0.5f * Hud_target_object_factor);
model_clear_instance(cp_model);
model_render( cp_model, &camera_orient, &obj_pos, MR_NO_LIGHTING | MR_LOCK_DETAIL | MR_AUTOCENTER);
// hud_render_target_close();
//End 3d model
...which did absolutely nothing, except maybe cause a noticeable drop in FPS. :p
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what coordinate space are you in?
try rendering at View_position with View_matrix
get rid of model_clear_instance, it dosen't do what you think it does
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Originally posted by Raa
Excapt that ~50% of the view is obstructed. :blah:
thats why people invented bubble cockpits
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'nother idea: Would it be possible to add a "mirror" to the HUD, a window, let's say of the size of the VDU that shows you what's going on behind you without forcing you to turn around to the rear view?
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You'd have to ask Bobboau, that's FAR beyond HUD code and well into the 3D engine specifics.
I suspect the answer is no though, because FS2 was designed with the idea of one camera being in one place at any one time.
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Is it possible to have a custom shield counter for the player ship?(for example, I target a ship of the same type as the player ship, but you see a different shield counter for the player ship instead of the standard one displayed for that type of ship)