Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Andreas on December 25, 2004, 05:28:13 am
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How old do you think Vasudans can live? Never mentioned in canon, I'm sure, but giving their seemingly hard 'structure', like turtles ;), I would expect them to be quite more long-lived than their Terran counterparts, something like, say 150 years? And yes, I'm taking the assumption that not many terrans live much more longer than people do today, with only a "few" living over 100 years old.
This also leads to my other question. Was the Vasudan emperor, Khonsu II already in throne during the T-V war and the Great War? Considering if they live longer than humans, then isn't that a great possibility?
EDIT: Typos
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No Khonsu II wasn't in power during the T-V War Hence PARLIMENTARY Vasudan Navy.
Can't find the exact date he (or She) came to power though
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
No Khonsu II wasn't in power during the T-V War Hence PARLIMENTARY Vasudan Navy.
Can't find the exact date he (or She) came to power though
actually he, or his predecessor, was in power during the Terran-Vasudan War.
Parliamentary Vasudan EMPIRE remember. It was just that during that period the Imperial Court was sidelined by the Parliament and the Emperor little more than a ceremonial figurehead.
Only after the Shivan Incursion was the Parliament weak enough to be overthrown.
iirc.
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FS:UP
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Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
actually he, or his predecessor, was in power during the Terran-Vasudan War.
Parliamentary Vasudan EMPIRE remember. It was just that during that period the Imperial Court was sidelined by the Parliament and the Emperor little more than a ceremonial figurehead.
Only after the Shivan Incursion was the Parliament weak enough to be overthrown.
iirc.
I stand corrected
Always wondered what the E in VPE standed for.
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Two-hundred years. Like Vulcans.
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how?
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You expect us to know that?
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all these threads are nice n all, good debatable topics, but its all really speculation, we have no sure way of knowing anything unless DaveB or Adam Pletcher pop up and answer our questions
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Two-hundred years. Like Vulcans.
How do you know?
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Here's something interesting:
http://www.indiavilas.com/indiainfo/babynames.asp?CurPageNo=10&vSearch=v&vType=&vGender=
Terra means the same thing, so could that mean. . .?
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Name Meaning Gender
Vasuda Earth Girls
Freaky
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Originally posted by Eishtmo
Here's something interesting:
http://www.indiavilas.com/indiainfo/babynames.asp?CurPageNo=10&vSearch=v&vType=&vGender=
Terra means the same thing, so could that mean. . .?
Cousin! :D
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:lol:
"If it's a boy, let's name him Adam. If it's a girl, let's name her Vasuda."
"But I wanted to name the baby after you, Carl..."
"Fine. But ONLY the middle name."
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Err. Just because he's the second member of his family in a row to be named Khonsu doesn't mean they live for 5,000 years. There could have been countless Ptomelies, Psamtus and Raas for all we know.
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All hail emporor Raa
*bgets on knees and bows*
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Originally posted by High Max
I remember it saying something about emperor Khonsu II, dynasty of 10000 years. Does dynasty mean that his family has been in existence for 10000 years? If that is what it means, considering that he is only the II in a family 10000 years, maybe a Vasudan can live 1000's of years. Maybe Khonsu I lived 6000 years and Khonsu II is 4000 years old. However, I have no idea what it means by "dynasty of 10000 years", just guessing.
...It's just a figure of speech; it's not supposed to be taken literally. The Vasudans most likely had their fair share of Raa XII's for all we know ;)
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I would assume that with body construction that they[we] have, they[we] don't live all that long at all. Possibly ~150 at the very very most, but more average around 60-70 yrs.
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On a side note, has anyone noticed how vasudans are uncannily alike to the Starcraft´s Protoss? Like they are cousins?
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Generic aliens...
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Snide, Off-Topic Answer[/i]
Well, they could live long enough to reproduce. And how do they do this? ;)
[/off-topic answer]
Well-thought-out answer[/i]
I'll agree with at the max 100 years, average of 70-80. Then again, because of their separate development on Vasuda Prime, a mostly desert planet, this factor may have different effects on lifespans than on Terrans. In any case, they could live up to 200, or as little as 70.
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I'm willing to bet that Vasudans don't reproduce as fast as them Terrans though...;7
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humans are capable of living to about 120 max. medicine cannot make them live longer no matter how adanced it is. so in 2367 we'll say that medicine is good enough to let the average human live to be 120 years old. how much of this medicine can be applied to vasudans? probably not a lot, but they have their own. all of this is of course irrelevant because we just don't know unless Adam Pletcher shows up and tells us himself.
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I could go into all this stuff about talemers but that probably would require every human to be a clone, a high impossibility.
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How long do Vasudans live?
Too long.
[/ntf]
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Originally posted by High Max
Maybe someone could email a staff member at Volition to find out the life spans of the terrans, Vasudans, and Shivans.
I'd love to see his reaction if he received an email about that........odds on the response would be 3 random numbers.
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Yes, email V. Id like to see what they have to say. But, would they have this all on documents about the developeing of the game, or would they still remember it.. or...?
LOL Ntf.
No one reproduses longer then the terrians.
In one of the cutseens iv seen recently, or some picture, it seems the Shivans are in some sort of rebotic body. Cause' of the eye area (Wasent Hallfight, were you can see the eye clearly) was some sort of hud, like the glass part above a pilots ship. Thus.. we dotn know what they look like, or they could live for a very very long time. Could be like 'Raa, in SG-1, who had this tomb that kept him alive and revitalized him.
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The Shivans aren't in a spacesuit, or exoskeleton, or anything; the Shivans in Hallfight are their true form; so we do know what they look like.
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Eh, ya got me there.
But they seem to be a exoskeleton species. Hard outside, gushy inside. But if they are, tis still their true form, right?
And whats up with the eyebeam.
Only idea iv herd recently is that its a:
1) Weapon
2) (a silly comment someone made in another thread) a mateing.. thingy...
How would the eyebeam work, if their Eye is a weapon, a natural weapon. Wouldent it inture the being that just shot the beam weapon? THe particles are like a foot away form its body, its skin, wouldent it injure it in any way?
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Eh, ya got me there.
But they seem to be a exoskeleton species. Hard outside, gushy inside. But if they are, tis still their true form, right?
Cybernetic exoskeleton, by the looks of it. But you wouldn't characterise your brain as your true form ahead of your body, so you can't really say the biological parts of the Shivans are either.
Originally posted by Charismatic
And whats up with the eyebeam.
Only idea iv herd recently is that its a:
1) Weapon
2) (a silly comment someone made in another thread) a mateing.. thingy...
How would the eyebeam work, if their Eye is a weapon, a natural weapon. Wouldent it inture the being that just shot the beam weapon? THe particles are like a foot away form its body, its skin, wouldent it injure it in any way?
Shivans seems to focus highly on integration of biology and technology; shooting a plasma beam (the techroom suggests it could be a natural focusing point for their biological energy or the result of some process of 'organic fusion') is probably as natural and painless as it is for us to spit; after all, saliva doesn't hurt us.
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Oh god... He's back... :shaking:
GET TO THE BOMB SHELTERS!!!
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Saliva isnt a beam partical weapon. But i see what you mean. If the shivnas did fuse technology with their species.. they would have research plants, which were never found or mentioned in FS, and what other gagets would they have?
Also how much stronger are they compared to T. and V.'s? He just shoved one of our guys on a spike in Hallfight.
Quote from Aldu_14:
Cybernetic exoskeleton, by the looks of it. But you wouldn't characterise your brain as your true form ahead of your body, so you can't really say the biological parts of the Shivans are either.
..........................
Cybernetic Exoskeleton?
Also, i meant the outside exo. that you saw, was their true form, not their .. um insides. (Just to clarify)
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Maybe Shivans evolved in an enviroment with a metallic gas, which they "Breathed" in which became a part of their bodies. Like trees "Breathe" in carbon Dioxide which then becomes a part of them.
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Cybernetic exoskeleton / carapace being the external technology which is attached to the biological parts of the Shivans. In my rough analogy, the carapace can be considered akin to the human body - skin, bones, blood, etc - and the biological parts of the Shivans can be considered akin to the brain, organs, etc. i.e. a Shivan is composed of both, in the same way we are composed of both organs, skin, bone, muscle and soforth. So the true for of the Shivans is the combination of both.
Without knowing how (if?) Shivans reproduce, it's impossible to determine which comes first; is the technology first with biologically engineered components grown within, are shivans birthed somehow and then implanted, or are both 'grown' together in, for example, vats or some assembly line like process.
It's probably unlikely the Shivans actively experiment upon themselves; they don't seem to have a need for that, given that they rely upon space combat using ships (ships which are engineered to integreate with the Shivan pilots).
The Shivan strength... seems significant' Hallfight is possibly a bad example, as it's in Shivan territory - they know the layout, the gravity, the atmosphere, and the marines may be hamepered by either the low-G or their gravity boots. But there is an ani of a Shivan ripping apart a Vasudan fighter in space, so they are bloody strong (but not invincible; the crew of the Iceni took out a few of them after all).
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Concernign the above post:
If that were true, holy S*** are we in a jam now. Just Think of the power of these dudes. Yet.. also if true, why not crush us? Unless we are starteing to compair to them...
Quote: Without knowing how (if?) Shivans reproduce, it's impossible to determine which comes first; is the technology first with biologically engineered components grown within, are shivans birthed somehow and then implanted, or are both 'grown' together in, for example, vats or some assembly line like process.
...................................
Heres the Real question.
What came first.. The Shivan or the EGG? (Supposting shivans hatch.)
(Just a joke if you didnt notice)
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Originally posted by High Max
Shivans don't reproduce, they are built.:nod:
The Shivans are an artifical species built by another entity and maintained like you would maintain a robot, and we all know that robots can last a very long time when it comes to life span. As far as the organic material goes, it's possible that they can use the DNA from living Shivans and use it to build new Shivans, then add the cybernetic enhancements.
Considering how my post was linked to the Vasudans, it's interesting how you drew a conclusion that my post was intended to discuss the Shivans. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Concernign the above post:
If that were true, holy S*** are we in a jam now. Just Think of the power of these dudes. Yet.. also if true, why not crush us? Unless we are starteing to compair to them...
the Shivans obviously have more important goals.
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Anyone know what they are... or care to speculate?
From what i know- makeing more nebulas, to reproduse in. Truning the galxies into giant nebs'. That would be pointless. How do the S. eat and all? If they were to make galixys (all fo them) into neb's, they would be too great and die, for lak of food.
We ever destroy S. cargo depot area b4, with command mentioning S. food supplys shortened?
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Err... there used to be a thread on the VWBB (Where I was trolling at the time) on this very subject... Good thing it's lost now, I reckon...
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Originally posted by High Max
Shivans don't reproduce, they are built.:nod:
no, they are cybernetically enhanced, and are still organic living creatures. it says so in the tech database.
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Well, did command ever catch one alive? Did they ever actually find out? Our bording party got their asses kicked in hallfight.
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look in the tech database in FS2. shivans have been captured.
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Given the scarcity of food, Desert creatures tend to have a slow metabolism, and therefore a longer lifespan.
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Btw: Personal oppinion on Terra/Vasuda:
Most likely one of those stereotypical anime things...
"OMG THESE ALIENS....! THEY'RE JUST LIKE US!"
And....conveniantly, they become allies.
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Yeah, if you rule out the whole 14 year war and the great war...
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Since when were those two different wars?
And uhm...I don't understand where you're coming from;
Since they said it was a break down in communication that caused it.
Something about improper customers and maner on our part.
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Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Btw: Personal oppinion on Terra/Vasuda:
Most likely one of those stereotypical anime things...
"OMG THESE ALIENS....! THEY'RE JUST LIKE US!"
And....conveniantly, they become allies.
Eishtomo pointed this out somewhere; Vasuda is also girls name which means 'Earth'.......
I think the specific cause of the TV War is left unstated; it's kept deliberately blurry (in case V ever did a prequel EP), and possibly - like World War 1 - there's just not a clear single reason for it.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
There is an ani of a Shivan ripping apart a Vasudan fighter in space, so they are bloody strong (but not invincible; the crew of the Iceni took out a few of them after all).
Where is this ani?
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
Where is this ani?
Silent Threat, I think (in a secrets directory)... there's a still from it in the FS1 credit art IIRC.
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Ahh that explains it, I haven't got silent threat
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That isn't nescessarily a bad thing ;) ...
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I am the only one on this board that likes Silent Threat, aren't I?
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No. I like ST as well :D
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Silent Threat was...
...lackluster, IMHO. The Loki was pretty cool, at first, then I just got sick of them by the end of the last mission. The missions were all just a whole lot of separate missions with their own plot, not one flowing into the other (exception being the Einsetin-->Myrmidon mission).
Fortunately, ST: Reborn will fix all of that.
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even when you had to put the rubber band around your joystick to keep the fire button down while hiding in the Hades' blind spot?
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I kept my wingmen (and the Orff too) alive, and we Harbingered it to death. It helps to hit the weapons subsystem with a Harbinger and then go after the turrets.
Four, five minutes tops.
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Originally posted by ngtm1r
I kept my wingmen (and the Orff too) alive, and we Harbingered it to death. It helps to hit the weapons subsystem with a Harbinger and then go after the turrets.
Four, five minutes tops.
Har Har! I used the port and shot the time compression up to X64, took less than half a minute!
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The hades aperently had a production line on it i read somwhere.
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The Lokis are apparently endless, though I might tear the mission out of the Port VP and take a look.
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they are indeed endless. the sexps command it! their words are truth!
*hails sexps*
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Well, 99 waves, at least.
*does the math*
99x4=396 annoying, little, quick, nimble, low-profile maniacs that must be destroyed along with the single Terran ship with more hit points in all of Silent Threat and Freespace 1.
Wow. I never realized how stupid that mission was until now.
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If you kill all the Lokis, you'd probably get Triple Ace as well ;)
It would only say the 'ace' which you are currently receiving; i.e: if you received Ace and Double Ace in one mission, the debrief would only mention Double.
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Actually thanks to modern science, humans will be able to live to 1000 in the next 20 years, or it has been predicteed so.
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that's bullcrap. even in a perfectly sterile environment your biology limits your lifespan. the only way to get above approx. 120 years old is genetic engineering.
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Originally posted by Krackers87
Actually thanks to modern science, humans will be able to live to 1000 in the next 20 years, or it has been predicteed so.
:wtf: Even 120-150 years would already be damn near impossible to achieve, but a 1000 years? That is just utter bs. Not to mention that you would propably turn insane in that time.
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Actually, it's not BS exactly, a scientist did predict this, using Genetic Engineering, but personally, I think he's waaay jumping the gun and attention grabbing, we are realising we don't know nearly as much about Genetics as we thought we did 2 years ago.
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Genetic repair, was it not? Replacing cells at the same rate they 'die off' or summat......
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There was an experiment where they Trebled the lifespan of worms, don't know if that would work on humans though.
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It's not a stupid reason really. If people double their lifespan but still have kids at the same age we're going to have population problems pretty quickly.
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Originally posted by karajorma
It's not a stupid reason really. If people double their lifespan but still have kids at the same age we're going to have population problems pretty quickly.
My thoughts exactly :yes:
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Thing is, people are convinced that DNA is the be-all and end all of genetics. Some kind of 'recipe' for making biological life.
That's not strictly the truth, it's more like a recipe without values, it doesn't tell you how much of things are needed, or how long or in what conditions the egg should remain in the womb etc, none of that information is in DNA.
There is also stuff called 'Junk DNA', a rather poorly named collection of data that we aren't quite sure what it does. Giving it the name 'Junk' has scary implications, since no-one is actually sure whether they are junk or not.
Another good example is Yeast. It cannot reproduce without external genes to nudge proteins into the correct place, same with humans, the entire DNA string does not contain enough information to even map 1 millionth of the neural pathways of a newborn child, external forces play a huge role in matters.
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Originally posted by High Max
It would be nice to live on this planet for 100's of years. I'm pretty healthy and active and I never smoked and that alone can cause you to live a while. I think that in my lifetime, we will be able to achieve living at least 200 years.
You see, it's not that we break down over time. It's that we are programmed to die after a certain amount of time. It's called "the aging gene" and this gene makes it so after a certain length of time, our body slows the process of creating new and healthy cells to replace the old dying ones. Eventally, our body's cells die faster than our body is able to produce new ones. Thus when we get old, we appear ugly and weak, almost like a walking corpse.
We have to modify that aging gene. However, I heard that it can be a dangerous process. Best to wait until science has made this procedure more perfected before deciding to go through with the operation. I have heard that last year, scientists have mapped and found all the genes in the human body. If we do make it so people can live a very long time, would the government interfere and make it illegal for some stupid reason? I hope not.:(
DNA cannot be responsible for aging, since statistically speaking there would have to be at least one being whose DNA mutated not to have it by now. Such a thing has been dismissed for a long time now...
Now about the topic, I'd assume that vasudans lived about 120 years average... all that fish and headz must do some good :nervous:
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What about running out of space in your brain to remember everything. Do people remember everything, and if so, what happens when they try to remember more than their brain can hold?
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The Genome Project is pretty much the potential for a LOT, but we have no idea how to utilise it... And simplicity is key here, the more complex we are to other animals, the more likely we are to fail... I agree with Carl, that there won't be anyone living extrordinary amounts of time...
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Originally posted by High Max
Then what determines lifespan? I heard it has to do with the nervous system. Can someone tell me what factor determines the average lifespan of a species. For example, we live a lot longer than cats and dogs, why? The human body has the most complex nervous system of all life on Earth but for some odd reason, turtles, parrots, and trees can out-live us.:confused:
From what I know "natural" death has to do with the weakening of the DNA structure making it harder for it to "multiply", and not with the DNA itself.
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
What about running out of space in your brain to remember everything. Do people remember everything, and if so, what happens when they try to remember more than their brain can hold?
The brain has an incredibly high "memory space", but it has a mechanism that makes it "forget" stuff you don't use very often, that knowledge becomes lost, permanently if you never use it again. One's conscience cannot remember more than even a mere 10% than what it can hold, but even if it could, it would be very hard to try to remember diferent stuff at a rate faster than the brain could forget, beyond that, I have no idea.
The Genome Project is entering the it's second stage IIRC, this was just the beggining, the easy part if you wish. In this first stage, the DNA has only been "recorded", not seen it's function. In the future...
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The brain can hold something like 3 Terahurtz (urgh, I'm better off googling this)
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Terahertz is a measure of frequency ;)
Anyways, one theory for the "aging gene" is that we have a whole codswolop of junk DNA on the ends of the DNA strands. Due to inificiencies in the process 3 nucleotides are shaved off one end of the DNA in the process of cell replication, eventualy so many nucleotides are "shaved off" that it cuts into the usefull DNA and we start aging.
In younc children an ensyme replaces the lost nucleotides natruraly but as we grow older we lose this ensyme.
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/me hunts down a small child and steals his talemerase
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I think he meant telomerase. Or telomeres, can never tell nowadays. It's some sorta enzyme responsible for the upkeep of nucleic acids. Or something.
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Yeah, telemorase, speleed it wrong.
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I think the telemorase have something to do with how your dna "proofreads" itself before it replicates. It helps to make sure that the right nucleotide pairs are assigned to each other. I think that as you get older it gets sloppy and your cells won't replicate themselves properly or not at all.
Of course, I've only taken high school biology so I could be wrong....
If everyone lived to be many hundreds of years the planet couldn't support us.
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Just a quick religion blip mixed in with supposed science, warning!!!:
From what understand in the bible, in the early days of Earth, people lived up to 900 years, close to 1000. Others 700 and such. A long ass time. I hear there was a water zone, being a buffer between the atmosphere and space, reflecting radiation. Radiation is alot highter now cauze the water barrier is gone, IE. "The Flood"- when God cauzed it to crash down.
I hear thaz why 'dinasuors' were big, and now extinct, things grew alot bigger back then, cauze of the way low radiation, cauze of the barrier water thing.
Also why the bible records "Giants", big men that lived, and died off eventually.
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I like that idea. Kind of explains the junk dna in a way too.
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id prefer death then to see my world go to ****
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I agree with Drew, and i agree that they lived actually hundreds of years.
-How dose it explain the Junk DNA, in a way?
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...
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?
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In Genesis it says that God limited lifespans to the 120 year rage, or at least, it eludes that being the case.
edit: 120 range, not rage.
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Pre-Flood, Genesis, Atmosphere (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Pre-Flood%2C+Genesis%2C+Atmosphere&btnG=Search)
Googlized.............
*vanishes*
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Originally posted by Charismatic
?
I just think it's wonderful how a bunch of gamers on some misbegotten forum can resolve conflicts between science and religion that have baffled scientists, philosophers and theologians for decades.
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Originally posted by Carl
In Genesis it says that God limited lifespans to the 120 year rage, or at least, it eludes that being the case.
But people have already lived to Age 123
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
But people have already lived to Age 123
120 range
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Heheh.
Yes. Im glad about the confilct solving thing too.
Its cause Most scientists are secular, and do not even conciter the biblical apporatch. But sorry, this comment is not on track with the topic.
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At any rate, Vasuda definitely does not have a layer of water in it's atmosphere, as it is a dry desert world. and even if it did before, it certainly did not after the lucy fleet got done with her.
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Originally posted by Carl
120 range
But people have died before reaching the age of 3
:ha:
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read the whole post.
In Genesis it says that God limited lifespans to the 120 year range, or at least, it eludes that being the case.
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How old do Vasudans live?
10 years and then Shivans eat them
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I@m obviously missing something here so I'll just shut up.
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
10 years and then Shivans eat them
HA! I agree. Btw that is funny. Heh. *Laughs*
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It's obvious.
Imagine eating fish and chips...
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*eats a vasudan* tastes like chicken :nervous:
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tastes like chicken, looks like fish.
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Anyone wonder if the NTF served "Fried" and "Deep-Fried" Vasudans?
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Originally posted by Carl
tastes like chicken, looks like fish.
As mouse said in the matrix:
Chicken tastes like everything
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Why did the NTF hate vasudans?
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They were jealous because the Vasudan's had a brilliant recovery from the Great War and the Terran economy had virtually collapsed. (Though how the Vasudans did anything is beyond me since their home planet was annihilated)
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
They were jealous because the Vasudan's had a brilliant recovery from the Great War and the Terran economy had virtually collapsed. (Though how the Vasudans did anything is beyond me since their home planet was annihilated)
well, sol was as good as anhialted for the terran economy. And konshu II preety much was awesome.
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Originally posted by High Max
They probably taste like reptile. Personally, I wouldn't know what reptiles taste like however.
I ate fried alligator onece, and it tasted like chicken.
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ANyways. Wut dose a vasudan city look like what is their culture? It is like orus but... in what ways?
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There is a CBAni where a Vasudan City is blasted by the lucy IIRC. It has a few skyscrapers but you can't see that much before it is destroyed.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
ANyways. Wut dose a vasudan city look like what is their culture? It is like orus but... in what ways?
I believe there is a concept art piece showing a Vasudan city floating around (you'll have to look). I remember there being lots of Vasudan faces (the Emperor) in the picture. I could be wrong.