Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: xenthorious on December 26, 2004, 12:00:18 pm

Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on December 26, 2004, 12:00:18 pm
This one isn't complete but I thought I should try something different. Here's several images, give me some feed back, improvements, sugestions, etc.

http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class01.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class02.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class03.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class04.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class05.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class06.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class07.jpg
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Taristin on December 26, 2004, 12:05:54 pm
...what is it?  

It could become something cool with more definition, and less smoothshading... but as it is, I can't make anything out.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Carl on December 26, 2004, 12:12:14 pm
you might want to give it more shape. at this point it's pretty much just a cone.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Nuke on December 26, 2004, 12:21:52 pm
looks like a sex toy
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Primus on December 26, 2004, 12:33:12 pm
Looks like a big missile to me... Or a small cruiser...
...What Carl said...
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: c914 on December 26, 2004, 12:37:21 pm
without all smoothing could be civil liner
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Night Hammer on December 26, 2004, 01:01:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
you might want to give it more shape. at this point it's pretty much just a cone.



yeah...:thepimp:
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on December 26, 2004, 01:27:35 pm
LOL Nuke...

Fair enough...  Before I alter model, look at it with textures and backgrounds and tell me what you think then...

http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class08.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class09.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class10.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class11.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class12.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class13.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class14.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class15.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class16.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class17.jpg

I'm not great with textures, but asuming this object was going to get a texture overhaul by someone more experienced; this would be the basic subsystems.

http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class18.jpg

Again more feedback plz.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Primus on December 26, 2004, 01:30:12 pm
It does look better with textures.. But it's too smooth...
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Taristin on December 26, 2004, 02:10:18 pm
Not enough detail.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Knight Templar on December 26, 2004, 02:10:36 pm
I think it's stupid because you said "turrents".

That is all.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 26, 2004, 02:25:32 pm
I think it is somewhat plain, yep.  You either need to alter the shape somewhat, or add detailing to the hull, I think.  At the moment it's very plain.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on December 27, 2004, 03:40:06 am
Okay, thanks for feedback.  Will work more on it's design.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Goober5000 on December 27, 2004, 11:09:19 am
*smacks xenthorious*

[strong bad]
If you want it to be possessive it's just I-T-S, but if it's supposed to be a contraction then it's I-T-apostrophe-S.  Scalawag (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail89.html).
[/strong bad]
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 27, 2004, 11:12:42 am
Gramar Inquiziton indedd............

u con edite peeples poists to corect there gramarr noo onyways, cant u?
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Goober5000 on December 27, 2004, 11:15:00 am
Yes.  But I prefer it when people learn it themselves.  The whole "give a man a fish" philosophy. :p
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 27, 2004, 11:15:44 am
u doo' doo u?
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Martinus on December 27, 2004, 12:16:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
Yes.  But I prefer it when people learn it themselves.  The whole "give a man a fish" philosophy. :p

[color=66ff00]And ask him to cut down the largest tree in the forest with it?


BTW good work xenthorious, is this exactly what you want or is it just what you settled for given your abilities? If it's exactly what you want then I'd do some serious texture detailing, if it's your abilities then keep practicing. :nod:

The mesh looks pretty good as far as build goes, no intersecting objects and the like.
[/color]
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: SadisticSid on December 27, 2004, 01:46:19 pm
It looks like a candle that somehow found its way into space.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Nuke on December 27, 2004, 01:52:04 pm
i remember my early models
*pukes*
thats better :D
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Grimloq on December 27, 2004, 02:52:50 pm
actually, as a first model its not bad...
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on December 27, 2004, 04:25:32 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor

[color=66ff00]And ask him to cut down the largest tree in the forest with it?


BTW good work xenthorious, is this exactly what you want or is it just what you settled for given your abilities? If it's exactly what you want then I'd do some serious texture detailing, if it's your abilities then keep practicing. :nod:

The mesh looks pretty good as far as build goes, no intersecting objects and the like.
[/color]


Not at all.  My last three ships seemed to be more or so a copy from this model.  I didn't like the repetition so I wanted to do something different.  I felt I needed some extra feedback to help me target what was absolutely nessasary.  The size of this ship should be viewed as something at least three times the size of the Orion from FS1.  It's a carrier class, which will not have many turrets.  Here's a breakdown of everything I have as of now:

Hurashima Intridictor Class:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_hurashima_class.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_hurashima_class02.jpg

Boston Heavy Cruiser Class:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_boston_class01.jpg

England Heavy Cruiser Class:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_England_class01.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_England_class02.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_England_class03.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_England_class04.jpg

New York Carrier Class:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class01.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class02.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class03.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class04.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class05.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class06.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class07.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class08.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class09.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class10.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class11.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class12.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class13.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class14.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class15.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class16.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class17.jpg

As you can see, though some of these ships may look good, they all seem the same.  That's what I'm trying to step away from.

P.S.
I absolutely suck at texturing, so if someone else wants to take my models and work with them, I'm cool with that.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Woolie Wool on December 27, 2004, 04:33:43 pm
The ship is incredibly indistinct. It doesn't actually look like anything. Or maybe it looks like everything. It's kind of vapid and characterless.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on December 27, 2004, 04:35:56 pm
Hey, I have a question.  How do I take one object, and merge it with another?  

Also, I have a problem with lighting...

After I recreate a polygon on an object, the lighting for that polygon is different from the rest of the polygons on the object.

Finally, how the hell do I get an acurate polygon count suitable for FS2_SCP?  

faces x 2 = polygon?
faces / 2 = polygon?
faces = polygon?

I keep thinking the polygon count on most of my ships are two high, but now I'm not so sure.

Thanks again.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on December 27, 2004, 04:37:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
The ship is incredibly indistinct. It doesn't actually look like anything. Or maybe it looks like everything. It's kind of vapid and characterless.


More or so like a civil liner.  Gotcha ya, thanks.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Grimloq on December 27, 2004, 06:45:27 pm
DONT make it that BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: WeatherOp on December 27, 2004, 06:58:51 pm
Why, you guys calling my Mega Jug idea that is 5,000 km long stupid?
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 27, 2004, 07:04:51 pm
I'm assuming you're still talking about max.....

Quote
Originally posted by xenthorious
Hey, I have a question.  How do I take one object, and merge it with another?  


Right click on it, select 'attach', select the next object.  you may need to delete faces / weld vertices, etc as well; it's not a boolean add.

(i.e. if you have 2 'halves' and attach them, you still need to collapse the vertices along the middle 'spline', i.e. where the models join)

Quote
Originally posted by xenthorious
Also, I have a problem with lighting...

After I recreate a polygon on an object, the lighting for that polygon is different from the rest of the polygons on the object.


Firstly, check the vertexes of that polygon are collapsed with the model (i.e. it shares vertexes with the surrounding faces).  Usual way is to select each corner, and collapse it if >1 vertice is selected (NB: make sure to check that you're not selecting other vertices below the face, etc; you're looking for pairs of vertices in mode or less the exact same position.  Somtimes with creating faces, you miss clicking on an existing vertice and get a new one created instead)

Secondly; and this is more likely; click on element, select the entire object, go down to the autosmooth button (I forget the ecxact name, IIRc it has 45 by default and is above the bunch of numerical buttons for the groups) and click it.

What this does, is apply smoothing settings to the selected faces; in this case it should be the entire object.  Smoothing settings determine how each poly is lit with regards to the next poly...i.e. how they shade into each other.  New polygons are usually set at 0 smoothing - faceted - so the edges are pronounced.  

45 is a decent setting for most models, you can also create smoothgroups with different levels of smoothing (i.e. in a cockpit you can have the seat cushion faces with 90 degree smoothing, and the meral work at 45, etc) simply by selecting faces and then the smooth button.  Best to leave this till later, though.

Quote
Originally posted by xenthorious
Finally, how the hell do I get an acurate polygon count suitable for FS2_SCP?  

faces x 2 = polygon?
faces / 2 = polygon?
faces = polygon?


(NB: a polygon is a shape with 3+ points - squares, hexagons, etc.  A face is a shape with 3 points; i.e. a triangle.  You get this when triangulating - the advantage of / reason for triangulation is that a 3 pointed face cannot be curved in any way.  Obviously you can alter polygons to be flat too, of course, but it's not an inherent guarentee when creating them)

Editable mesh is auto-triangulated and shows the number of faces (this would be your FS2 polycount).  Theres a polygon counter in the extensions that shows your current object and scene total counts.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Grimloq on December 27, 2004, 07:31:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
the advantage of / reason for triangulation is that a 3 pointed face cannot be curved in any way.


LOL, obviously youve never used D3edit :p laws of physics? *pfft* :)
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: KARMA on December 28, 2004, 04:44:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
I'm assuming you're still talking about max.....



Right click on it, select 'attach', select the next object.  you may need to delete faces / weld vertices, etc as well; it's not a boolean add.

(i.e. if you have 2 'halves' and attach them, you still need to collapse the vertices along the middle 'spline', i.e. where the models join)

 


that sound a bit annoying
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 28, 2004, 04:46:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by KARMA


that sound a bit annoying


why?
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: KARMA on December 28, 2004, 05:05:20 am
I mean, the vertex collapsing thing, I thought in max there were some automated processes to connect two faces with the same number of verts, or to connect two halves. I suppose the verts welding process to be automated and not still manual like in truespace (which is the bigger flaw of it)?
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 28, 2004, 05:09:16 am
You can weld all vertices within a threshold of each other, yes (in editable poly mode).

 But it's best to get acquainted with manual welding/collapsing first, because there's more control on that (and its ovften quicker for small sections).  And also because vertex welding is the best way to poly-reduce the model for optimisation / loding (at least IMO).
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 03, 2005, 03:16:37 pm
Okay guys, how about now...

BEFORE:

UNSKINNED:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class01.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class02.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class03.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class04.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class05.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class06.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class07.jpg
SKINNED:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class08.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class09.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class10.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class11.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/cap_ship_NewYork_class12.jpg


AFTER:

UNSKINNED:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class01.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class02.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class03.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class04.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class05.jpg
SKINNED:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class06.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class07.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class08.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class09.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class10.jpg
DETAILS:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class11.jpg

Okay, I think it looks much better but still wanting feedback...

How did I do?
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 03, 2005, 03:53:42 pm
It's hard to see the difference, in all honesty... try posting unsmoothed, or 30-45 degree smoothed, piccies.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 03, 2005, 04:19:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
It's hard to see the difference, in all honesty... try posting unsmoothed, or 30-45 degree smoothed, piccies.


How do I do this?  Sorry for asking a noobish question...
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 03, 2005, 04:26:41 pm
Select the whole element / all the faces, and look down the bottom of the right hand side,er, thingie (editor stack?  the bit with the buttons to select face, collapse, etc).

Down the bottom of that should be a 'surface properties' rollout. Look for the 'auto-smooth button'.  To the left of that is a little box where you can type in a number; this is the smoothing angle (default is 45).

so click the 'auto-smooth' button, and that smoothing angle will be applied to the selected faces.  The effect tends to be much more noticeable in untextured mode, or if you have proper scene lighting.

HTH.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 03, 2005, 04:33:38 pm
Thanks, got it.  Here you go...

AUTO-SMOOTHED:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class13.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class14.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class15.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class16.jpg
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 03, 2005, 04:36:48 pm
I think you need to break up the shape of it a bit more from the side...  maybe add some form of recess on the underside, add a wee bit of a curve.  Maybe it's just my aesthetic tastes, but I'm not fond of long unbroken shapes.

EDIt; very crude general example

(http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/lostsouls/crude.gif)
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 03, 2005, 05:18:38 pm
Okay, how about now?...

UPDATED:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class17.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class18.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class19.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class20.jpg

Feedback please...
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: BlackDove on January 03, 2005, 07:36:48 pm
Good, it's shaping up.

Now fix the nose.....into somethnig more cooler.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 03, 2005, 08:33:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by BD
Good, it's shaping up.

Now fix the nose.....into somethnig more cooler.


As nice as the nose looked, it did bother me too.  Will work on it.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 03, 2005, 08:34:12 pm
Blunt-off the nose and slap a big beam cannon there.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Ulala on January 03, 2005, 09:25:38 pm
Now you're getting somewhere. Keep it up, looking great. :yes:
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Grimloq on January 03, 2005, 10:32:42 pm
yes, its turning out quite good :)
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 03, 2005, 10:34:51 pm
It's a missile?
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 04, 2005, 02:24:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
It's a missile?


Well, if you want to comment like that, I could say that half the FS ships look like peices to a car engine. =P
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 04, 2005, 02:58:50 pm
Okay guys, how about now?...

UPDATED
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class21.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class22.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class23.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class24.jpg
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Carl on January 04, 2005, 02:27:54 pm
it's looking much better, but still has a ways to go.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Carl on January 04, 2005, 02:29:15 pm
xenthorious, how in the heck did you post 30 minutes in the future?
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Carl on January 04, 2005, 02:30:18 pm
just too prove i'm not crazy, here's what his post says:

Okay guys, how about now?...

UPDATED
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyo...ork_class21.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyo...ork_class22.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyo...ork_class23.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyo...ork_class24.jpg


__________________
The big cool ship...
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 04, 2005, 04:27:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
just too prove i'm not crazy, here's what his post says:

Okay guys, how about now?...

UPDATED
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyo...ork_class21.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyo...ork_class22.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyo...ork_class23.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyo...ork_class24.jpg


__________________
The big cool ship...


WTF?!

LOL, someone better tell the admin about this before the server crashes AGAIN[/u]!  :confused:
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 04, 2005, 04:30:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by xenthorious


WTF?!

LOL, someone better tell the admin about this before the server crashes AGAIN[/u]!  :confused:


Yeh, something's definately wrong.  The URL's I posted were not working.  When I re-editted the post, I copyed the link and checked them out manually to find out they were working.  I then canceled the edit and the URL's worked again.  Somethings is breaking up in the code.  Someone better inform the admin of a possible problem. :confused:
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 04, 2005, 04:32:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by xenthorious
Okay guys, how about now?...

UPDATED
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class21.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class22.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class23.jpg
http://talimoor.game-host.org/newyork/cap_ship_NewYork_class24.jpg


Anyways, I need feedback on this, if someone would please.  Thanks.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Rampage on January 06, 2005, 06:23:19 pm
Okay.  I think I know where you're going with this ship.  First of all, this ship - if completed - doesn't belong in the Freespace 2 universe.  It's too naval.  Also, starting with this - rename the ship from New York to something else - unless that's your preference.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: Ulala on January 06, 2005, 11:56:36 pm
Coming together, I'm interested to see it with turrets. ;7 :nod:
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 07, 2005, 08:13:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rampage
Okay.  I think I know where you're going with this ship.  First of all, this ship - if completed - doesn't belong in the Freespace 2 universe.  It's too naval.  Also, starting with this - rename the ship from New York to something else - unless that's your preference.


I wanted contrast in the opinions but wow.  I'm sure there are many more ships that make mine look pethetic but no need to state it don't belong in FS2.  Have you ever played the Wing Commander Saga (not the FS version)?  They all look naval too! :lol:

Now, I am interested in knowing what is wrong with "New York"?  I have lived accross the Hudson River for most of my life, I really need to know how this may (if in any way) be a bad move?

I'm open to your opinions if they seem reasonable.
Title: New Model... Feedback?
Post by: xenthorious on January 07, 2005, 08:15:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ulala
Coming together, I'm interested to see it with turrets. ;7 :nod:


I intentionally did all I could to keep the polygon count low just so I can make "FAT" turrets.  If the ship disapoints you, I will work my hardest to insure you that the turrets will not.  :D