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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: .::Tin Can::. on December 28, 2004, 03:19:28 pm

Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 28, 2004, 03:19:28 pm
I'm surprised no one has commented on this game yet. I find it to be very satisfactory, if not excellent. So then, let's start with the first question: who has it?

On elements of why it is so great, let's put up things that have changed from the first one, for good and for bad.

Good:
------


Bad
----


This is one of the most awesome new games this year, that is probably going to be overlooks by most generic gamers. (Of course)

It kept everything that was great from Metroid Prime and made it even better. However, before I express what is better, let me just state that the story is just a bit more straightforward than the first. You get your mission from one source: a Luminoth who will say "It's up to you Samus. Here is a map, go grab this and stuff."

What was neat about the first was that you actually had to piece it together in order to get logical outcomes. Raid a pirate base, discover what they were up to via Pirate Logs, and then realize that you possessed technology to reach a new area. It was a thinking man's game. Yay!

Regardless, the new effects are cool! I love the Dark World, and although it is tough, moving from one energy bubble to the next is just plain awesome looking, and awesome in itself. Can't wait to get the Dark Suit though, so I dont have to use those.

Anyhow, just express your thoughts on the game. I think it's a neat improvement.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: delta_7890 on December 28, 2004, 03:42:32 pm
I have it.  Good game.  Great game.  But not as good as the first.  Why?  Well, let's look at the good parts.

The new suits.  Duh.  Very nice looking.  Good to finally have something other than different colors.

Bosses.  Awesome fights.  The worms and that giant robot of death were especially awesome.  The Guardians were also a nice touch.

Level design.  Very well done I thought.  For the most part.  I'll expand on this below..

The initial scenario.  Kinda Aliens like.  The soldiers coming back to life was also pretty neat.

---

The bad?  Logbook/option layout.  Interesting, but clumsy.  I prefered the old menu.  It was fine.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The beams.  Come on.  Redone plasma and ice beams?  Ooh, light and dark, yay..  Now they use ammo?  Feh.

The superweapons.  Slow, and useless.

Dark Aether.  Didn't feel right..for some reason..  Not sure what it was.  Guess I didn't like the feel.  

Also, I felt there was a general lack of variety in areas.  MP was perfect.  You had fire, ice, ruins, grassy/jungle areas, it was all wonderful.  But Aether just seemed so..plain and barren for the most part.  Even the swamp felt like it lacked life.

Metroid Prime.  Kinda weak.  I don't know..it was interesting to have it around, but I think they could have implimented that thing a bit better towards the end?  Perhaps having it control the Ing or something to that extent.

Samus without the suit.  Ew.  Something about her face model made her look..well..old..

Backtracking!  Good god..that was terrible..



Despite these nit-picks, I thoroughly enjoyed the game.  I just didn't think it was as good as the first one.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Deepblue on December 29, 2004, 11:53:25 am
Halo 2...

:nervous:

I tried MP2:E, but found it seemed to be very slow and boring, plus the combat wasn't smart and didn't require any strategy.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Nico on December 29, 2004, 12:05:28 pm
yeah, Halo2 owns Metroid 2 easily. Proof? Look:
(http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/041226.jpg)
Own7 :D
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Gloriano on December 29, 2004, 12:13:30 pm
:lol:
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 29, 2004, 12:32:18 pm
:lol:
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Roanoke on December 29, 2004, 01:16:00 pm
The whole light and dark thing felt underplayed. Link ot the Past did it much better and the Ammo System was a little inconsistent.

The bosses totally got on my tits tho.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 29, 2004, 01:44:27 pm
I loved the Dark World. It was so cool I could hardly bare to leave. I mean, I know, all the getting damaged and stuff got bad, but the whole place just seemed mystical. It was cool!
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: adwight on December 29, 2004, 03:48:17 pm
Man, I seriously loved this game to death.  Hell, it even took me longer than a week to beat because of the difficulty of the bosses.  This was a very good game, yet it wasn't anything revolutionary like the old one was.  Metroid Prime was just better than this one, it had that feel to it that Echoes does not.  They still both kick Halo's ass any day though :P.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 29, 2004, 03:50:29 pm
Right on. *high fives*
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Knight Templar on December 29, 2004, 03:53:01 pm
Halo* > Console Shooters**

Still though, I played it with my friend for five minutes last week. Seemed alright, except that I had to use a GameCube contorller to play.

________
* Includes Halo 1 & 2 despite KT's displeasure with Halo 2's story.

** Does not include Goldeneye / Perfect Dark
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 29, 2004, 05:08:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Halo* > Console Shooters**

Still though, I played it with my friend for five minutes last week. Seemed alright, except that I had to use a GameCube contorller to play.

________
* Includes Halo 1 & 2 despite KT's displeasure with Halo 2's story.

** Does not include Goldeneye / Perfect Dark


Knight Templar = Halo Fanboy
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: adwight on December 29, 2004, 10:13:01 pm
I see.  The only thing Halo has over Metroid is multiplayer, but Metroid isn't meant to be multiplayer anyway.  Tin Can, what's your fav Metroid game?  Super Metroid here.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 29, 2004, 10:18:06 pm
Metroid Prime. It just kind of broke barriers for me, what my interest in an adverture / action shooter game was. When I get a real kick out of scanning stuff, it must be good.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Deepblue on December 30, 2004, 07:40:41 pm
The only thing? How about incredible AI and flawless combat?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Grey Wolf on December 31, 2004, 12:41:36 am
I wonder. Am I the only one not really impressed by either Halo or Halo 2?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Turnsky on December 31, 2004, 12:51:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I wonder. Am I the only one not really impressed by either Halo or Halo 2?


Halo 2 was good, definitely better than the first one, i won't comment on Metroid, 'cuz A) i don't have a gamecube, and B) the 'cube doesn't have much of a following around here...(not to mention the fact that the 'cube's controllers were obscenely small for my largish palms)

as far as i could see, Halo2's only shortcomings were, it was far too short, and the rather obvious rendering engine bugs..

the best part of Halo2, was the covenant energy sword... that thing kicks ass.:D
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Deepblue on December 31, 2004, 01:08:06 am
Has anyone here beat the game on Legendary? I am currently on the third level, but DAMN! Those Elites do not die! And suddenly there are three times as many, and half of them are dual-wielding spec op guys who take three sword hits to die.

BTW, best combos against these Elites IMHO are Plasma Pistol + Submachine Gun, or Plasma Pistol with a BR in the other slot, one charged burst to take down shields, then a quick BR volley to the head to finish the job.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Bobboau on December 31, 2004, 04:15:11 am
I just beat super metroid for the first time like half a hour ago, damn that was good, took me 12 and a half hours of gametime so you can guess I didn't get the colorfull ending.

thank god for emulators
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: aldo_14 on December 31, 2004, 04:19:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I wonder. Am I the only one not really impressed by either Halo or Halo 2?


I  wasn't impressed by the former (PC version, although my borther has an x-box at his flat.....), not played the latter, but I find I'm not impressed by many FPS' in general nowadays.  Nothings beaten Goldeneye64 yet, IMHO.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Nico on December 31, 2004, 05:33:22 am
I wonder what's up with that crappy game? What was so good about it, again, save for the ( "cough" 3D "cough" ) "Bond" girls and the usual "Bond" plot?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: aldo_14 on December 31, 2004, 05:48:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
save for the ( "cough" 3D "cough" ) "Bond"  girls and the usual "Bond"  plot?


You just answered your own question there.

Oh, and also had the best deathmatch mode ever.

Oh, and dual wielded weapons.  And many disparate environments.  and lateral thinking stealth gameplay.  And leaning + sniper rifle (a pioneer if not inventor).  And greate graphics.  And a genuinely good film license.  And completely immersive gameplay which didn;t rely upon cutscenes.  And Bond gadgets.  And the best auto-aiming system I've ever seen.  And golden-gun multiplayer.  And locational damage on enemies (still hardly ever see that done so well nowdays).  And tonnes of replay value thanks to the level select and timed challenges.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Knight Templar on December 31, 2004, 06:03:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Knight Templar = Halo Fanboy


You think?

Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
Has anyone here beat the game on Legendary?


Halo 1 here, not Halo 2 though.

Quote
Originally Posted by Aldo
..... what he said.....


Indeed. Multiplayer was the **** in it's day. Rather simple, but awesome. Weapons rocked, hard to find anything wrong with it.  

Perfect Dark only sweetened the deal.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: aldo_14 on December 31, 2004, 07:11:58 am
I never actually played Perfect Dark, I had a US console & could never find either an imported copy of it or the memory expansion dealy.

Can you get an N64 emulator nowadays?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Nico on December 31, 2004, 08:31:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


You just answered your own question there.

Oh, and also had the best deathmatch mode ever.

Oh, and dual wielded weapons.  And many disparate environments.  and lateral thinking stealth gameplay.  And leaning + sniper rifle (a pioneer if not inventor).  And greate graphics.  And a genuinely good film license.  And completely immersive gameplay which didn;t rely upon cutscenes.  And Bond gadgets.  And the best auto-aiming system I've ever seen.  And golden-gun multiplayer.  And locational damage on enemies (still hardly ever see that done so well nowdays).  And tonnes of replay value thanks to the level select and timed challenges.


mmh ( just giving the first expemple that comes to mind ):
-bond... well, tastes
-dual weapons... Blood?
-disparate environments... half of them? an exemple...: dunno, renegade.
-stealth... thief
-leaning+sniping... oh, thief too :p ( and first, mind you )
-great graphics? :lol: ... hem, sorry, yeah, for a N64, I suppose you're right, it's still unmatched :p
-auto aiming... I hate auto aiming, so...
-locational damage is prett useless, you shoot the head of the body, who care about the rest? :p But still, if you want.
-time challenge, a replay value?

Basically, about everything above is in Thief ( or T2 or T3 for that matter ), save for multi and localized damage ( well there's the head, as usual ). And thief is unmatched for solo replay, if you ask me, since there's so many ways to do a mission.

Ah well, to me it's just a low grade game that sold because there was Bond stuck to it and coz it was about the only adult game with biohazard on N64, but to each his own I guess :p

"waits for tsunami ( bad joke? so sue me )"
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: adwight on December 31, 2004, 08:38:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
I just beat super metroid for the first time like half a hour ago, damn that was good, took me 12 and a half hours of gametime so you can guess I didn't get the colorfull ending.

thank god for emulators


Now do it in 56 minutes like I did.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: aldo_14 on December 31, 2004, 08:53:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico


mmh ( just giving the first expemple that comes to mind ):
-bond... well, tastes


Yes, that's true.

Quote
Originally posted by Nico
-dual weapons... Blood?
-disparate environments... half of them? an exemple...: dunno, renegade.


Renegade is far newer than Goldeneye (plus it got utter ****e reviews).

Quote
Originally posted by Nico
-stealth... thief
-leaning+sniping... oh, thief too :p ( and first, mind you )

Thief was released in 98, Goldeneye in 97.  If you want to be nit-picky, MDK introduced sniping.  

Quote
Originally posted by Nico
-great graphics? :lol: ... hem, sorry, yeah, for a N64, I suppose you're right, it's still unmatched :p


Exactly.  They were brilliant for the time; one of the few 'real world' type shooters too, I believe.

Quote
Originally posted by Nico
-auto aiming... I hate auto aiming, so...


It's needed for any console shooter, and they did it absolutely perfectly.  First step to a good game is ease of control, of course.

Quote
Originally posted by Nico
-locational damage is prett useless, you shoot the head of the body, who care about the rest? :p But still, if you want.


Because you could kill with a shot to the heart or nuts, that's why.  Also added tonnes of emergent gameplay by keeping guards alive as long as possible by shooting their feet, hands, etc.

Quote
Originally posted by Nico
-time challenge, a replay value?


Added hours onto my game; playing to get the unlockables, then playing with the unlockables (and on the unlockable levels)

Quote
Originally posted by Nico
Basically, about everything above is in Thief ( or T2 or T3 for that matter ), save for multi and localized damage ( well there's the head, as usual ). And thief is unmatched for solo replay, if you ask me, since there's so many ways to do a mission.

Ah well, to me it's just a low grade game that sold because there was Bond stuck to it and coz it was about the only adult game with biohazard on N64, but to each his own I guess :p

"waits for tsunami ( bad joke? so sue me )"


Thief wasn't even an FPS, of course.....or did Thief have big setpiece shootouts, too?

NB:  You had an N64, then?

EDIT; oh, and it was one of the pioneer  games in using vibration feedback (Starfox64 was the first on consoles IIRC, and I think Sega GP or some F1 game by them did it in the arcades)

and also had superb sfx and ai for the time.  and vehicles; may have been the first fps to have them, i'm not sure.

EDIT2; oh, and
http://ign64.ign.com/articles/151/151991p1.html (Goldeneye64 - 9.7 Aug 97 review)
http://pc.ign.com/articles/153/153476p1.html (Thief - 8.9 Dec 98 review)
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: WeatherOp on December 31, 2004, 09:22:55 am
GoldenEye was one of my favorite games, but haven't played it in years. And about Perfect Dark, it's good but don't match up to Golden Eye. The fastest I've beat SM is about 1 hour and 47 minutes. Someone start a Top Ten games thread.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Roanoke on December 31, 2004, 09:58:19 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Because you could kill with a shot to the heart or nuts, that's why.  Also added tonnes of emergent gameplay by keeping guards alive as long as possible by shooting their feet, hands, etc.
Added hours onto my game; playing to get the unlockables, then playing with the unlockables (and on the unlockable levels)


I found shooting in the chest region then aiming upwards as I fired was really useful.

Goldeneye was the last game I 100% completed. Don't really have the patience anymorre. Gotta love the second mission with the enemy rocketlaunchers, Donkey Kong, and Player Rocket Launcher "cheats". Didn't tend to last very long though.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Deepblue on December 31, 2004, 01:37:24 pm
Halo 2 improves upon all Goldeneye aspects except for leaning. And no, auto aiming IS NOT neccesary for all console shooters, namely Halo 2 because the control system is almost perfect.

However, it was awesome for its time.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Knight Templar on December 31, 2004, 02:33:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
Halo 2 improves upon all Goldeneye aspects except for leaning. And no, auto aiming IS NOT neccesary for all console shooters, namely Halo 2 because the control system is almost perfect.


button layout maybe. If you think the X-Box controller is perfect though...
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: aldo_14 on December 31, 2004, 03:48:41 pm
I think the xbox controller is bloody awful.  It was one of the main reasons I never got one.... I had the choice of all 3 (GC, PS2, Xbox) - I rejected the xbox because of the controller, and the GC because it didn't have Pro Evo or GTA.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on December 31, 2004, 04:54:08 pm
Uh oh, this is moving away from Echoes and into a console comparison. Back on subject.

Yes, Echoes isn't as good as the first one, because the first one just sort of brought fourth what Retro wanted for the Metroid series, and it worked out fantastically. (Especially the pirates. They are just badass). I especially liked the way they showed off the destroyed Pirate base, and the ability to scan objects to gather more information on your surroundings was something that was new for me, unless it had been done in the same fasion by other games.

But Goldeneye is pretty sweet.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Deepblue on January 01, 2005, 12:39:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar


button layout maybe. If you think the X-Box controller is perfect though...


I can't see anything with the s-controller. The other version has already been phased out.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Nico on January 01, 2005, 07:55:27 am
Can't bother replying to most of the stuff, it's a sterile discussion, so I'll just continue with what interests me:

Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
It's needed for any console shooter, and they did it absolutely perfectly.  First step to a good game is ease of control, of course.


Halo doesn't require autoaiming, and it works perfectly. A FPS that requires one therefore has a gameplay issue.

Thief is a fps in the sense that you're in the first person, you have a bow and you shoot with it ( but seriously, yeah, the first thief ended on a couple very arcade missions, that was actually a big complain from fans, it seems, and leaded to any "action mission" being completly removed from Thief2, and in Thief3 they finally removed the sword - thing I hate, I liked the occasional duel when being cornered :doubt: ). Of course, if you ask me what kind of game thief is, I won't say it's a FPS, but that's another matter :p

About Renegade: I don't bloody give a damn about reviews, if you were listening to them, Half Life 2 would be the best FPS ever :doubt: I don't want to make a list of why Renegade was really good, I'll just give the major thing: Best. FPS. Multiplayer. Mode. Ever. Period. It's just not for loners, it's a team game.

As for the "it's been released later", isn't your argument the fact that it has still to be matched? :p

And finally, I agree, the xbox controller is quite crappy. Why the black and white buttons, for exemple? Why not 4 triggers like on the other controllers?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Deepblue on January 01, 2005, 03:43:40 pm
Because then it would be just like the other controllers. :p
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on January 01, 2005, 03:52:06 pm
When he says Renegade, does he mean C&C Renegade?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2005, 04:33:33 pm
No. D&D Renegade.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Ulala on January 01, 2005, 04:57:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
I just beat super metroid for the first time like half a hour ago, damn that was good, took me 12 and a half hours of gametime so you can guess I didn't get the colorfull ending.

thank god for emulators


Meh, go through it a few times and you'll cut that time down. I've beaten it in like 1:26 if I remember correctly. I should get a screen of it if it's still saved in my emulator. Less than 3 hours gets you the best ending, again if I remember correctly.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Nico on January 01, 2005, 06:59:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
Because then it would be just like the other controllers. :p


But there's a reason why all the controllers have evolved to the same shape in the end :p ( I know, it was ironical )
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on January 01, 2005, 08:16:34 pm
I never need autoaim on a console...
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2005, 09:10:47 pm
Sure do when using the Billbox controller. Using that thing is like playing a game using a watermelon for a controller.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Turnsky on January 01, 2005, 09:17:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Sure do when using the Billbox controller. Using that thing is like playing a game using a watermelon for a controller.


i found it strangely comfortable... but that's just me.. :p

the smaller controllers are better, however.. at least i've found them to be..

don't knock the xbox 'cuz of its controller scheme, or because it's microsoft

just bear in mind two things when you hear KT ***** about the Xbox
1. He can't Afford one
2. he's bitter because of the above, and the fact that halo2 is on it, and not on the pc

:p
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 01, 2005, 09:28:57 pm
The smaller controllers are decent, but to tell you the truth, I still prefer the controller from the N64. And why, precisely, would you need Halo 2 on a PC, when there are plenty of other FPS that run on a computer, most with better graphics?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Deepblue on January 01, 2005, 09:41:02 pm
Because while they might have better graphics, they cannot match the shear awesome gameplay and incredible enemy AI all wrapped into a cinematic story.
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on January 01, 2005, 10:03:56 pm
I think they put Halo on PC because they wanted it to have that "lots of players, using the feel of having Xbox live, only on your computer!"

As for the controllers, what is a Billbox controler?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2005, 11:21:47 pm
Just because I can't play Halo 2 doesn't make the Billbox's controller any less ****ty. :p
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Roanoke on January 02, 2005, 05:50:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
The only thing? How about incredible AI and flawless combat?


Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
Halo 2 improves upon all Goldeneye aspects except for leaning. And no, auto aiming IS NOT neccesary for all console shooters, namely Halo 2 because the control system is almost perfect.


Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
Because while they might have better graphics, they cannot match the shear awesome gameplay and incredible enemy AI all wrapped into a cinematic story.


:rolleyes:
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on January 02, 2005, 08:52:50 am
:lol:
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: aldo_14 on January 02, 2005, 09:05:57 am
{insert advertising snippet here}
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Nico on January 02, 2005, 10:07:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Sure do when using the Billbox controller. Using that thing is like playing a game using a watermelon for a controller.


You can't aim just coz the controler is big? You know you're not supposed to wave it around to play? Midget :p
besides, the new controllers are of normal size, so people still complaining about that... heh...
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Ghostavo on January 02, 2005, 10:31:53 am
(http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2002/20020325l.gif)

:nervous:
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Roanoke on January 02, 2005, 11:07:50 am
:D that's really good
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Knight Templar on January 02, 2005, 03:06:12 pm
The Arcade speaks the truth.

Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
*pimpage*


And I am the fan-boi?
Title: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Post by: Deepblue on January 02, 2005, 03:18:48 pm
:lol:

Oh... Wait...

*echoes*