Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Kie99 on December 31, 2004, 07:27:53 pm

Title: What if?
Post by: Kie99 on December 31, 2004, 07:27:53 pm: What would happen if the entire GTVA fleet in Their Finest Hour was sent back to Ross 128 while the Lucifer was attacking the Riviera Station fully repaired. Lets assume they do't just slaughter the Lucifer as soon as they see it.
Title: What if?
Post by: FireCrack on December 31, 2004, 07:45:48 pm: I'm preety sure the shivans would be fvcked
Title: What if?
Post by: JR2000Z on December 31, 2004, 07:49:40 pm: The Lucifer would whipe them out of course.
Title: What if?
Post by: Kie99 on December 31, 2004, 07:57:52 pm: But what would happen after the Lucifer was destroyed. Like with the Sathanas Fleet just a few systems away
Title: What if?
Post by: Kie99 on December 31, 2004, 08:03:41 pm: How would the Lucifer wipe them out, the Fleet would talk to the GTA and Persuade them Shivans existed.
When it tells the GTA the history of their conflict with the PVN the GTA will have to believe them, especially when they see the advanced Tech.
The Fleet would wait until Lucy went into subspace then follow it and unleash a storm of BFGreens and BVas's etc. upon it. And possibly a few Helios missiles.
Title: What if?
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 31, 2004, 08:09:58 pm: They don't even need to deal with the subspace part. Beams will go straight through the shielding, and the Colossus, two cruisers, and a corvette will make short work of the FS1 Lucifer, so...

The NTF would never have exsisted, as Aken Bosch would never have had the experiences he did with Shivan technology during the Hades rebellion. The Hades might have been completed, and the coup might have been launched...only to have the Hades hunted down by the Colossus and other beam-armed ships, which would have blown GTVI's superdestroyer to metallic confetti.

It might not even have gotten that far: the fleet would have known of the GTI rebellion, and would likely have moved to stop it before it could start...and perhaps profit from it by having the forces available to storm the Jotenheim installation, seize the GTI labs, and then find and storm the site where the Hades was being built before the superdestroyer was anywhere near functional. What GTI knew of the Shivans they would not have been able to take to their graves this time around.

The Second Shivan Invasion would never occur. The GTVA would have formed much earlier: there's nothing in the arsenal of the GTA or PVN at that time that could've stopped the Colossus and its fighters. The fleet could simply dictate the formation of the GTVA to the GTA and PVE.

The PVE might remain, or it might become the Imperium. It's unclear how much of the momentum behind the change of government for Vasuda was the result of the Terran-Vasudan War and how much was the result of the devestation of the Great War. That can't be accurately predicted.

The GTA would probably have gone into the GTVA as a whole, and post-Great War skirimishes between members would not have occurred...or would have been promptly squashed by the Colossus.
Title: What if?
Post by: pecenipicek on December 31, 2004, 08:17:12 pm: edit:nevermind
Title: What if?
Post by: Kie99 on December 31, 2004, 08:20:31 pm: That's cos You're a Troll.

Beams will go straight through the shielding

Not Necessarily, other weapons were supposed to completely destroy shields but had zero effect on the Lucifer
Title: What if?
Post by: pecenipicek on December 31, 2004, 08:22:27 pm: i read this
Quote
But what would happen after the Lucifer was destroyed. Like with the Sathanas Fleet just a few systems away
and said i dont understand... the second part anyway...
Title: What if?
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 31, 2004, 08:23:30 pm: Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
That's cos You're a Troll.

Beams will go straight through the shielding

Not Necessarily, other weapons were supposed to completely destroy shields but had zero effect on the Lucifer

Beams bypass all forms of shielding. That's canon, is it not?
Title: What if?
Post by: Kie99 on December 31, 2004, 08:27:28 pm: THe GT(V?)A would have to decide what to do about the Sath Fleet.
Title: Re: What if?
Post by: pyro-manic on December 31, 2004, 09:01:01 pm: Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
What would happen if the entire GTVA fleet in Their Finest Hour was sent back to Ross 128 while the Lucifer was attacking the Riviera Station fully repaired. Lets assume they do't just slaughter the Lucifer as soon as they see it.

Um, this makes no sense to me at all. Are you talking about time travel or something? :wtf: There is no timetravel in the FS universe....
Title: What if?
Post by: Grimloq on December 31, 2004, 09:31:25 pm: yeah.. thats what i want to know. tiem travel is NOT canon.
Title: What if?
Post by: Overlord on January 01, 2005, 07:18:34 am: Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r

Beams bypass all forms of shielding. That's canon, is it not?

There's a little flag in the launcher called "-nobeampierce".
:drevil:
Title: What if?
Post by: Falcon on January 01, 2005, 10:08:55 am: I don't think it would be safe for the GTVA to mess around with time, It could lead to some troubles.
Title: What if?
Post by: pecenipicek on January 01, 2005, 10:39:04 am: agreed
Title: What if?
Post by: Moonsword on January 01, 2005, 11:09:57 am: That would when you play the "it's an alternate universe" card.
Title: What if?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 01, 2005, 11:41:20 am: The terrans would be wiped out miserably.
Title: What if?
Post by: Kie99 on January 01, 2005, 11:57:30 am: Sorry, I didn't mean the GTVA does it on purpose, I meant that something happened when the Sath jumps in so that all ships in the general area apart from the Sath are sent back in time.
I realise it's not Canon but the title of the thread is: What If?
Title: What if?
Post by: pyro-manic on January 01, 2005, 12:23:04 pm: Yah, but how or why would it happen in the first place? That's a more important question, I feel. Chances are the Lucifer would rape the TV ships anyway. Impregnable shields give you a bit of an advantage...

There's no mention of any sort of temporal anomalies or disturbances anywhere to do with subspace
Spoiler:
Unless you include Sync, and that had nothing really to do with the Shivans
, so it'd be kind of weird if it suddenly happened out of the blue.

You could always write a mini-campaign about it...
Title: What if?
Post by: Falcon on January 01, 2005, 12:46:16 pm: You know I wonder if you could configure a knossos to time travel would make an interesting campaing.

(Also we never knew what the Shivans were doing when they were at the Capella sun :drevil: )
Title: What if?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 01, 2005, 12:47:03 pm: Oh, it wouldn't be necessarily the Lucifer who would wipe out the TV-fleet.

But following the speculation, Bosch would never start the NTF rebellion, let alone gather the knowledge he has about shivan technology.

And without Bosch, both Terrans and Vasudans are condemned to extinction, sooner... or later.
Title: What if?
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 01, 2005, 12:49:28 pm: So wait... the Saths go back in time. They eradicate the entire T-V Fleet, their homeworlds, and their species. Done.

But no Bosch. No Trinity to activate the Knossos in Gamma Drac, and no ETAK to make communications with the Shivans. No active Knossos leads to no Second Shivan Incursion, which means my first sentence is completely impossible (well, mostly, but let's avoid migraines, shall we?)

Time travel... it's a cornucopia of disturbing concepts. :D
Title: What if?
Post by: Taristin on January 01, 2005, 12:50:43 pm: Well... you could also theorize that if they somehow did go back in time, and change the future, then the future that sent them into the past would no longer exist, and therefore, they'd never have been sent into the past. So the original future exists again, sending them back in time to erase the future. It's a big loop. :p

Edit: Damn... a few seconds too late. :p
Title: What if?
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 01, 2005, 12:52:17 pm: Ha :p
Title: What if?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 01, 2005, 12:52:29 pm: The main problem with time travel is to find the proper grammatical forms of verbs when you're speaking about it.

This is where the confusion starts. :p
Title: What if?
Post by: Jal-18 on January 01, 2005, 01:13:54 pm: So there's two vital things to keep in mind:

1) Know where your towel is.

2) Don't Panic

:p :D
Title: What if?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 01, 2005, 01:28:22 pm: Exactly. :D

Oh, and 3) Avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beasts of Traal. (you can use the towel to cover your eyes.)
Title: What if?
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 01, 2005, 01:30:57 pm: 4) Don't ever let a Vogon read poetry at you. (That's right... at you) :D
Title: What if?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 01, 2005, 04:09:28 pm: Cough cough (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/vogonpoetry/lettergen.shtml)

And a little teaser:

See, see the Shivan sky
Marvel at its big barf depths.
Tell me, Tin Can do you
Wonder why the vasudan ignores you?
Why its foobly stare
makes you feel wargh.
I can tell you, it is
Worried by your lgithpsed facial growth
That looks like
A cheese.
What's more, it knows
Your RAA! potting shed
Smells of n00b.
Everything under the big Shivan sky
Asks why, why do you even bother?
You only charm vogons.
Title: What if?
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 01, 2005, 04:16:45 pm: Ow... ow.. *twitches*

It... hurts... :D
Title: What if?
Post by: pyro-manic on January 01, 2005, 04:21:57 pm: *knaws off own leg*
Title: What if?
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 01, 2005, 04:57:26 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Oh, it wouldn't be necessarily the Lucifer who would wipe out the TV-fleet.

But following the speculation, Bosch would never start the NTF rebellion, let alone gather the knowledge he has about shivan technology.

And without Bosch, both Terrans and Vasudans are condemned to extinction, sooner... or later.

Except that in all likelyhood they would actually know more about the Shivans, because they would have seized GTI's information, which apparently exceeded even Bosch's knowledge of the Shivans.

And including the original technology behind ETAK. And live Shivans to test it on.
Title: What if?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 01, 2005, 08:31:35 pm: Bosch is the only hope there is for the survival of mankind, mainly because he is insane enough to accept any means to accomplish his goals.
Title: What if?
Post by: Taristin on January 01, 2005, 10:43:41 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed

Tell me, Tin Can do you
Wonder why the vasudan ignores you?
...
What's more, it knows
Your RAA! potting shed
Smells of n00b.

Funny you should write that. Tin can is on my Ignore list... But no, I am not him, So your poetry is flawed. :p
Title: What if?
Post by: FireCrack on January 01, 2005, 10:50:29 pm: So, i guess the universe would CTD
Title: What if?
Post by: neo_hermes on January 02, 2005, 12:29:05 am: thinking about Time Travel and the Future of the GTVA makes my head hurt!!!
Title: What if?
Post by: Roanoke on January 02, 2005, 05:55:20 am: My Big Campaign Idea will allow the player to choose between NTF or SOC and see resulting events from different perscpectives. Sometimes the same missions.
Title: What if?
Post by: Kie99 on January 02, 2005, 02:25:32 pm: The Idea is its a once-only freak event caused by the Sathanas having an accident (don't take that the wrong way) cos it was charging up that supernova-maker. What the Fleet does in the Gr8 war will cause a new reality to start. The Shivans don't realise they've done time travel. Could you please stop debating whether its possible or not and debate what would happen, what the GT(V?)A would do to stop the Shivans etc.
Title: What if?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 03, 2005, 04:33:13 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raa

Funny you should write that. Tin can is on my Ignore list... But no, I am not him, So your poetry is flawed. :p

Where does it say you are?

And btw, it was auto generated. :)
Title: What if?
Post by: Taristin on January 03, 2005, 09:51:57 pm: It's implied. :p
Title: What if?
Post by: Carl on January 03, 2005, 11:04:16 pm: there are only one of two definite outcomes:

beams penetrate the Lucy's shields: we win

Beams don't penetrate the Lucy's shields: we lose.
Title: What if?
Post by: neo_hermes on January 03, 2005, 11:37:12 pm
Title: What if?
Post by: Kie99 on January 04, 2005, 03:58:58 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Carl
there are only one of two definite outcomes:

beams penetrate the Lucy's shields: we win

Beams don't penetrate the Lucy's shields: we lose.

WRONG!

beams penetrate the Lucy's shields: we win

Beams don't penetrate the Lucy's shields: The Fleet enters subspace after the Lucifer and destroys it, hopefully in a node to a system with many jump nodes leading to/from it.
Title: What if?
Post by: Hippo on January 04, 2005, 03:30:35 pm: Wrong again: If the GTVA had destroyed the Lucifer, the GTA and PVE never would have combined. Terrans only gained shields after analasys of Shivan ships (after a prolonged time of encounter with them), AND the help of Vasudan (canon) scientists. The same would go for beams (also canon), thus meaning that there is no technology made to atually DESTROY the Lucifer.
Title: What if?
Post by: Hippo on January 04, 2005, 03:32:15 pm: wth? I'm posting AFTER Kie's post, which is set in the future?

[q]01-04-2005 04:58 PM[/q]

:wtf:
Title: What if?
Post by: pyro-manic on January 04, 2005, 03:36:33 pm: And wipes itself out in the process? I think not.

WTF?? :wtf: Me too......

This happened in another thread a few hours ago as well. Admins take note!
Title: What if?
Post by: oohal on January 09, 2005, 08:15:08 am: hey carl since your the resident shivan if the beams don't pierce the lucy's shields you win