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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flipside on January 01, 2005, 06:33:04 pm

Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Flipside on January 01, 2005, 06:33:04 pm
http://www.vnunet.com/news/1128540

According to the creator of CD's, the new copy protection systems being used by Time Warner/AOL etc, have the potential to destroy audio equipment and CD players.....
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: aldo_14 on January 01, 2005, 06:40:33 pm
Doesn't major CD-player manufacturer Sony own Time Warner or similar?

Thumbs up to Phillips for standing their ground, anyways.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Ford Prefect on January 01, 2005, 06:56:02 pm
Wait, this copy protection prevents you from even RIPPING the CDs?! That's the stupidest **** I ever heard! Everything I put on my iPod is ripped from CDs that I buy! Those scumbag assclowns are going to punish people for buying their goddamned CDs!
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Ghostavo on January 01, 2005, 06:58:08 pm
Isn't that impossible? Preventing someone from ripping something while managing to let them access to that data (audio)? :confused:
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Bobboau on January 01, 2005, 06:58:49 pm
it's also against fair use, or whatever the term is
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: pyro-manic on January 01, 2005, 07:00:35 pm
This kind of copy protection is actually technically illegal, as far as I'm aware. You have the right to make backup copies of software you own, and AFAIK the same applies to audio CDs.

Aldo - Sony owns Columbia Records and several other music labels, as well as having their own "Sony Music" label. So it is rather odd...
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Solatar on January 01, 2005, 07:15:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by pyro-manic
This kind of copy protection is actually technically illegal, as far as I'm aware. You have the right to make backup copies of software you own, and AFAIK the same applies to audio CDs.


This is true...unless they've gone and changed the law.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 01, 2005, 07:21:23 pm
:lol:

With tactics like these, it's no wonder the record companies complain about losing money. Now they're punishing people who buy the CDs. Great movie, RIAA! :D Now more people will be looking for alternatives to buying the music!

'Course, the RIAA's plan is probably to sue their way to profits. I wonder if it'll be the first company to base their sales strategies solely on suing people?
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Fineus on January 01, 2005, 07:26:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
:lol:

With tactics like these, it's no wonder the record companies complain about losing money. Now they're punishing people who buy the CDs. Great movie, RIAA! :D Now more people will be looking for alternatives to buying the music!


That's how I see Valve and Steam. We get the product - but at a price that's higher than we bargained for. Certainly a price that's higher than it used to be.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: an0n on January 01, 2005, 07:56:16 pm
I don't even get why they're bothering to try and protect the CD's. I mean, all you need to **** them over is a length of audio-jack cable.

You hook your player's Audio-Out to your computer's Mic port, play the CD and use Windows Recorder to make a WAV. Then you just gotta use AudioGrabber or something to convert it to MP3.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: pyro-manic on January 01, 2005, 08:01:23 pm
These companies don't seem to realise that if people want to copy music, they'll always find a way to do it. It's either incredibly optimistic or very stupid. Either way, it won't ever work...
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Solatar on January 01, 2005, 08:09:29 pm
If I'm going to have to record from line-out or something just to get my music on my iPod, then I might as well just download the album illegally...why should I pay for what I can't use?
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Flipside on January 01, 2005, 08:12:24 pm
Precisely, what they are actually doing is pushing customers away, not protecting them. Ah well, nothing new for this lot I guess ;)
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 01, 2005, 08:14:09 pm
IIRC, holding the Shift key bypasses 99% of these copy protection strategies. Another option is just disabling auto-run.

Personally, I prefer the "Screw Time Warner" strategy......
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Solatar on January 01, 2005, 09:18:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009

Personally, I prefer the "Screw Time Warner" strategy......


Well, it IS tested and has worked for years.:p
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on January 01, 2005, 10:06:59 pm
Smells like bull**** to me.

If the Protection system lowers the sound quality, and will damage Audio equipment, then what is the use of having it if you can get something better from a CD that doesnt have this sort of bull**** on it? Kind of defeats the purpous now doesnt it?

Dont have to worry about pirating the music, cuz no one will be buying it.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Solatar on January 01, 2005, 10:18:33 pm
I think they want ALL CDs to have this on them.

*hugs iTunes*
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: phreak on January 01, 2005, 10:21:10 pm
good thing most of my CDs come from Century Media :)
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: pyro-manic on January 01, 2005, 10:30:50 pm
Most of the CDs I buy are on obscure little labels anyway, so I'm not that worried. I can't see Nuclear Blast implementing this kinda thing anytime soon ;)
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on January 01, 2005, 10:32:23 pm
Good thing most of my music comes from *cough* legitimate sources *cough* through the process of *cough* media liberation *cough*.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Taristin on January 01, 2005, 10:33:42 pm
If I were able to purchase my CD's they'd be from Nippon Crown, so Screw you AOL/Time-Warner! ;)
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on January 01, 2005, 10:36:31 pm
Didn't you guys hear about the couple of guys planning to dump a couple million AOL Trial Disks on the lawn of Time Warner?
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Solatar on January 01, 2005, 10:38:46 pm
Heard about that a while back...I have to say I support it fully.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: pyro-manic on January 01, 2005, 10:41:56 pm
Definitely. I'd love to see their faces when the earthmover truck pulls up outside....
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 01, 2005, 10:50:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Solatar
I think they want ALL CDs to have this on them.

*hugs iTunes*


Compressed formats (like MP3, not as much OGG, but still) just aren't as good as CD recordings; there's an easily noticeable difference until you get to 192 kbps or so with a good encoder and decoder.

But when CDs cost $20 a piece, and oftentimes have one really good song and 8 or 9 bad ones, it's just not worth it. I'd rather wait for that one good song to come onto the radio. (And good luck getting me to pay for a song without hearing it at all, if you think the solution is to not put songs on the radio then.)

And I don't believe this crap about how the internet is deeply cutting into CD sales. Without the internet, I'd guess at least half the people wouldn't be buying any CDs at all, while the other half would be buying maybe one or two a month on average. And at the same time filesharing's popularity is growing, so are CD players. You can probably (I haven't looked, I admit) buy a compact CD player for the same cost or less than the cost of a new Backstreet Boys CD. (Which is pretty sad when you think about it).

Yup, looks like you can. It has a radio tuner too: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3056293&cat=4534&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A172481%3A3983%3A4534
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: IceFire on January 01, 2005, 10:55:03 pm
These people are morons.  They've slowed down the people who want the music in electronic format (at any cost) by approximately 15 seconds.  They've spent millions on sophisticated copy protection techniques and technologies that can be defeated by using the simplest of audio equipment or computer equipment.  Morons...utter utter morons.

The only people they are sticking it to right now is Apple, Creative, and anyone else who makes a portable MP3 player.  I for the record buy CDs...and lots of them.  These people have labled everyone as a pirate and a thieves and I am insulted by the recording industry at large.  They are recationary, incacluating, cold, and they require an entirely new strategy for dealing with this problem....one that is progressive, targeted, and sensible and it can be done through a number of initiatives to restructure the entire industry to deal with the digital age.  Right now, they are still living in the 60s...the takeover of modern, electronic, on demand distribution systems are here.  People will pay...if it is easy, simple, cheap, and they know that the benefits are going to the creators of the music...

I point the finger no further than the iTunes store...
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Solatar on January 01, 2005, 10:58:35 pm
I admit, I wouldn't have bought any of the CDs I have now had a few of my friends shown me a Metallica song a few years back.

I have all my CDs ripped to my computer just because the quality loss isn't bad at all (I do use 128kbps though) and I hate switching out CDs. I use itunes sometimes to get single songs when I don't want to buy the entire album.

I agree...if CDs didn't cost $20 (on average) sales would get better most likely.

Most CDs I buy don't have the "one song is good, rest are crap" problem though, go metal (might be 'cause a lot of them sound almost the same..but go figure..:D)

EDIT: ...what Icefire said...
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Ford Prefect on January 01, 2005, 10:59:42 pm
Quote
The only people they are sticking it to right now is Apple, Creative, and anyone else who makes a portable MP3 player. I for the record buy CDs...and lots of them. These people have labled everyone as a pirate and a thieves and I am insulted by the recording industry at large. They are recationary, incacluating, cold, and they require an entirely new strategy for dealing with this problem....one that is progressive, targeted, and sensible and it can be done through a number of initiatives to restructure the entire industry to deal with the digital age. Right now, they are still living in the 60s...the takeover of modern, electronic, on demand distribution systems are here. People will pay...if it is easy, simple, cheap, and they know that the benefits are going to the creators of the music...

I point the finger no further than the iTunes store...


Hear hear! :nod:
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: pyro-manic on January 01, 2005, 11:08:20 pm
Heheh, I've just ordered the new Enslaved album on limited edition vinyl. :thepimp: Like to see someone try and copy-protect one of those... ;)

I always buy music on cd or vinyl rather than download it - I prefer having something tangible like a cd or record, with liner notes and lyrics etc, to a file on my hard disk. I do buy lots of music, and as Icefire said, the big companies are now treating everyone like potential criminals by doing this to their published music. I don't like that one bit. Perhaps if they priced cds reasonably, then they'd sell more. Another idea would be to stop chain stores from adding such a massive profit margin to records. For example, I saw Iron Maiden's "Powerslave" - an album from 1985 (so it's not a new release) that lasts about 40 minutes - on sale for £16.99 in the Cardiff branch of Virgin Megastore a few weeks ago. £16.99!!! I paid less than that for their last live record (Rock In Rio, a double cd album with over 2 hours of music) in my local independant record shop the week it was released. It's a huge rip off...
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Ford Prefect on January 01, 2005, 11:13:58 pm
I think iTunes actually includes liner notes with their album downloads. I'm not sure; I've never dowloaded anything from them.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: pyro-manic on January 01, 2005, 11:15:29 pm
Meh - it's not the same. I want something I can hold and flick through as I listen...
Title: Re: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Kosh on January 02, 2005, 03:25:44 am
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
http://www.vnunet.com/news/1128540

According to the creator of CD's, the new copy protection systems being used by Time Warner/AOL etc, have the potential to destroy audio equipment and CD players.....



Yet ANOTHER example of pirated versions working better than the locked-up, overpriced legal versions.


Besides, all people need to do is just put it into their computer, run some software they found off the internet for cracking the copy protection, burn it to a new cd, and voila.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: vyper on January 02, 2005, 04:01:20 am
Start million dollar industry selling music online for download;

Scare people into thinking new CDs will damage their hardware;

Profits++;
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Clave on January 02, 2005, 05:52:59 am
Quote
Wait, this copy protection prevents you from even RIPPING the CDs?! That's the stupidest **** I ever heard! Everything I put on my iPod is ripped from CDs that I buy!


Same here....

Could be time to buy up a load of cheap, back catalogue faves, before this kicks in, then switch to iTMS for future purchases.
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: Flipside on January 02, 2005, 10:38:06 am
One question that occurs.... if you took the 'projected' sales loss for Time Warner through Piracy, at production cost, and then subtracted the production cost of all the AOL demo discs they pump out each year that don't get used (which are the same CDR's) I wonder how much would be left? ;)
Title: Audio CD protection 'damages players' - Philips..
Post by: SadisticSid on January 02, 2005, 02:15:54 pm
This is extremely old news (note the date on the article), and it doesn't look as if anyone's been enforcing the 'no copy-protected CD is allowed to use the Compact Disc logo'.

But as far as this sort of thing goes I can foresee a limited lifespan for copy protection as a whole. It doesn't work in most cases, is never foolproof, and MP3 players don't support anything like it any more because you can just drag and drop files on them using any old OS.