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FreeSpace Releases => Mission & Campaign Releases => Topic started by: Goober5000 on January 03, 2005, 02:12:06 am

Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Goober5000 on January 03, 2005, 02:12:06 am
Sort of.  This isn't a real release so much as a proof-of-concept that got a little out of hand.  I whipped it up this evening to demonstrate something I had in mind to ShadowWolf, and then I kept adding stuff to it. :p

Basically, you are a mercenary for hire.  You go from sector to sector, looking for jobs and getting paid.  Some jobs require you to have more experience than other jobs, and certain jobs won't be available at certain times.  As you earn money, you get to purchase better ships and weapons.

The majority of this can be done quite effectively with persistent variables, and the rest can be implemented with the variable loadout code that I still haven't gotten around to doing.  But I thought people might be interested in seeing an actual demonstration of how this kind of campaign would work.

There's no combat and very little plot (although the Mission Designer does make an appearance ;)).  Just fly from sector to sector and take whatever jobs you find.  Jump out within 500m of an object to follow that object, and jump out elsewhere to check your score.  You'll get the hang of it once you start playing it.

Oh, and two things you guys may be interested to know: I'm fairly certain that this is the first nonlinear Freespace campaign ever released.  And it was all done in retail FRED. ;)

http://staff.hard-light.net/goober5000/downloads/freespacelancer.zip

EDIT: update link
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Knight Templar on January 03, 2005, 02:41:57 am
No combat? So it's a demo to show that it can be done?
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Silent Warrior on January 03, 2005, 02:48:24 am
Interesting... Very interesting...
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: ShadowWolf_IH on January 03, 2005, 02:53:50 am
We were discussing ho9w Mercs was going to work, and it's alot like this.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: MetalDestroyer on January 03, 2005, 03:35:59 am
Cool, now we have to expect some kind of Freelancer gameplay or I war 2 gameplay into the Freespace Universe or maybe into the Star Wars / Star Trek Universe :D
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2005, 04:57:31 am
Looks lIke I'm going to be spending some time in FRED taking this apart :D
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 03, 2005, 04:58:37 am
Of course, now we have to somehow randomly generate hostiles to impede your progress...
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: ShadowWolf_IH on January 03, 2005, 05:05:45 am
nah.....it'll be better than that crap.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2005, 05:23:49 am
Goober : How on earth have you managed to make links higher up in the campaign tree? Editing in notepad?

Since this is the first time I've used FRED since Christmas I'd just like to say. Voice Acting Manager? :wtf:!
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Singh on January 03, 2005, 06:45:42 am
*proceeds to tear the mission apart in FRED and have a look at it's innards, much like an autopsy :D

Cant wait to try it :D
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Roanoke on January 03, 2005, 07:05:44 am
persistant variables and retail FRED ?
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Singh on January 03, 2005, 07:16:36 am
iam surprised and amazed at how simple the missions are....yet truly frigethened and awed by the complexity of your campaign file O_O

I didn't see any variables in the missions though.......
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Turnsky on January 03, 2005, 08:11:57 am
y'know, i'm gonna post up another idea this has given me in my little ideas thread in the general FS forum..
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: pecenipicek on January 03, 2005, 08:58:32 am
:jaw:
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Moonsword on January 03, 2005, 10:26:09 am
*raises eyebrow*

Very interesting.  I'll have to experiment when I get my computer working properly... again.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Goober5000 on January 03, 2005, 02:25:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
Goober : How on earth have you managed to make links higher up in the campaign tree? Editing in notepad?
Yup. :) I'm surprised nobody has tried it before.  Everything I've done in that campaign has been possible since FS1. ;)
Quote
Since this is the first time I've used FRED since Christmas I'd just like to say. Voice Acting Manager? :wtf:!
Er, yeah.  That's something that's in progress. :nervous:
Quote
Originally posted by Roanoke
persistant variables and retail FRED ?
Nope.  Judicious use of is-previous-event-true.  It works the same way as a campaign-persistent variable* that can only be true or false.
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
iam surprised and amazed at how simple the missions are....yet truly frigethened and awed by the complexity of your campaign file O_O
The campaign file is what makes it possible. :)
Quote
I didn't see any variables in the missions though.......
There are none.  Except for the score variable in AwardCeremony, but that was just to make scorekeeping easier.  It could have been done without it.


*It's persistent throughout the entire campaign, except it's overwritten when the mission is played again.  So if you want to use it for more than one time through the mission, you have to "latch" it using a second event.  Look at the AwardCeremony mission to see how that works.  Unfortunately there's no way to put comments in FRED, and the events are a bit of a mess, so it might take some work to figure out.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2005, 02:40:20 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
Yup. :) I'm surprised nobody has tried it before.  Everything I've done in that campaign has been possible since FS1. ;)


:) As soon as I saw it I was positively kicking myself that I hadn't tried it earlier myself. We all know that FRED frequently has problems with things that FS2 couldn't give a stuff about. :D

Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
Er, yeah. That's something that's in progress. :nervous:


I've already given it a try. Looks pretty useful. What are the campaign and mission boxes for though? :nervous: :confused:

Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
*It's persistent throughout the entire campaign, except it's overwritten when the mission is played again.  So if you want to use it for more than one time through the mission, you have to "latch" it using a second event.  Look at the AwardCeremony mission to see how that works.  Unfortunately there's no way to put comments in FRED, and the events are a bit of a mess, so it might take some work to figure out.


Yeah. Took me a few seconds to realise why you were testing for an event at the same time as testing for an event that could only occur if the first one had happened :D
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Goober5000 on January 03, 2005, 03:04:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
I've already given it a try. Looks pretty useful. What are the campaign and mission boxes for though? :nervous: :confused:
That dialog (the only one that's finished so far) is for generating filenames for sound files.  It uses the same format that Volition used, except it's a little more customizable.  Put a few letters in each text box and see what the result is.  Then click "Generate Filenames" and check out the messages in the event editor. ;)

Of course, now that OGG support is available, I'll have to add another option for selecting either OGG or WAV as the extension. :p
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Cobra on January 03, 2005, 05:01:54 pm
Quote
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
Cool, now we have to expect some kind of Freelancer gameplay or I war 2 gameplay into the Freespace Universe or maybe into the Star Wars / Star Trek Universe :D


SW and ST TC's are already being worked on. as for the I-War, i might to a TC of i-war 1, then i-war 2 if i figure out how goober did that.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: MetalDestroyer on January 03, 2005, 06:18:47 pm
Lol you don't really understand what i mean. I just expected to have a I war 2 or Freelancer Gameplay into these Universe.
I know there are a SW and ST TC but i don't think they will implemented some Hyperspace travel like the I War series, or Freelancer or as well X Wing Alliance.

Do you know now what i really want to tell you ? ^^
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Cobra on January 03, 2005, 06:38:42 pm
yup. :D

then you say, "we'll see".
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Cobra on January 03, 2005, 07:04:29 pm
just tried FSL. what the heck was that? isn't there supposed to be something a little different than "fly for XXXX, yay!" or something? you said there was an appearence from the MD. Where is it?
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Hippo on January 03, 2005, 07:15:38 pm
Its a subtle reference from DEM...
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Cobra on January 03, 2005, 07:31:25 pm
Oookay. if i reply any more i'll be reconsidered a n00b. (really though, where is the reference?)
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Goober5000 on January 03, 2005, 10:18:14 pm
I already said there wasn't going to be any combat.  It's just a demonstration of how the campaign would work.  An outline.

The Mission Designer appears in the Award Ceremony mission - the one where you check your score.  As I said, you can check your score by jumping out farther than 500m away from any object.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Singh on January 03, 2005, 10:23:35 pm
this is...interesting. Ive studied the campiagn structure, the sexP's are pretty simple from what I can see.....

Would you mind if i put in a little content there and see how the entire thing would cope? You know, like an actual mission or two where ye do stuff :D

With FSOpen and actual variables, the possibilities are quite enormous for this :drevil:
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Goober5000 on January 03, 2005, 10:27:31 pm
Sure; the reason I posted it was to inspire people to come up with an actual playable campaign. :)
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Cobra on January 03, 2005, 10:58:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
I already said there wasn't going to be any combat.  It's just a demonstration of how the campaign would work.  An outline.

The Mission Designer appears in the Award Ceremony mission - the one where you check your score.  As I said, you can check your score by jumping out farther than 500m away from any object.


*Slaps head* i'm a dope!
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Turnsky on January 03, 2005, 11:33:47 pm
great idea this.

now, all it needs is to have some mission data, mission choices, etc.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: karajorma on January 04, 2005, 03:45:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
That dialog (the only one that's finished so far) is for generating filenames for sound files.  It uses the same format that Volition used, except it's a little more customizable.  Put a few letters in each text box and see what the result is.  Then click "Generate Filenames" and check out the messages in the event editor. ;)


I figured that much out. It's fairly easy to figure out what the Briefing stage etc text boxes do. What perplexed me are the campaign and mission boxes. They don't actually correspond to anything I can think of and unlike the other 4 they don't actually make an exaple filename appear when you type into them.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Turnsky on January 04, 2005, 03:53:18 am
i reckon the hardest part would be to create a "living galaxy" as it were.   y'know, ships going about their usual routines, and the like.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Cobra on January 04, 2005, 11:32:33 am
i've always thought about doing that... *goes to make an alive mission*
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: karajorma on January 04, 2005, 12:51:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
i reckon the hardest part would be to create a "living galaxy" as it were.   y'know, ships going about their usual routines, and the like.


True. I think it's possible. PVs make it easier but it probably would have been possible using retail (unless the SEXP node limit got you first).

Maybe something to think about after I've completed work on SoR :D
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Goober5000 on January 04, 2005, 01:58:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
I figured that much out. It's fairly easy to figure out what the Briefing stage etc text boxes do. What perplexed me are the campaign and mission boxes. They don't actually correspond to anything I can think of and unlike the other 4 they don't actually make an exaple filename appear when you type into them.
They do, but you have to have text typed into all the boxes.  They represent the abbreviation for the campaign and the mission.  They're only added to the filename when there is a filename to add to. ;)
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Unknown Target on January 04, 2005, 01:44:27 pm
You'd have to reduce load times, though. Imagine if these systems were full of living ships? You'd be looking at three or four loads in as many minutes. With each load taking about 2 or 3 minutes on a slow computer (or 5 or 6 on a really slow one), you'd really reduce playing time.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on January 04, 2005, 02:48:10 pm
Goober, You are very inventive, This is great stuff. A for implementation.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Singh on January 04, 2005, 04:42:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
i reckon the hardest part would be to create a "living galaxy" as it were.   y'know, ships going about their usual routines, and the like.


Actually, it's possible using persistant variables. It depends directly on how many missions you have in the entire 'universe' as it were. If the total number of missions available were 30, you'd need 30 variables for each mission. SexPs are usefull, but they have a tendency to run out. Using variables, you can set the arrival cue of ships as true or false, depending on the value of them.

Say I've completed a mission, then I'd set that mission's variable to 1. After this, when I jump back to Sector A, either a new ship will be there with it's arrival cue set to the variable being 1, or the station will be under attack and it'll be directly connected to the previous mission (and the value of the variable) and occur after its done, allowing for a continuing storyline, sub-storylines and so much more.

But then, as mentioned before, there is the immense loading problems....
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: karajorma on January 04, 2005, 04:06:04 pm
Make the missions in each sector long enough and the loading problems go away somewhat.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Flaser on January 04, 2005, 04:40:59 pm
What would make this even more potent would be a spawn-sexp, instead setting the arrival cue for a ship already placed in a mission you could place ships into the mission - ergo spawn them - with the sexp itself.

BTW - IMHO some sort of "don't reload stuff" into the memory optimization would be a godsend for this type of campaign.

Finally - Goober you stole my idea! (Nah...just kidding) The very fact you though out how to implement it with the already availible resources could result in a plethora of new "dynamic" (...sorta) campaigns excelent work.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Goober5000 on January 04, 2005, 08:21:04 pm
And as I mentioned before, taylor's new 3.6.5 code makes those problems obsolete. ;) Stuff is cached between missions, so you don't unload anything you need to use again.
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Singh on January 04, 2005, 11:31:21 pm
excellent.

Do you mind me asking, Goober, what is the current limit on variables in any given mission? Also, did you hit any limit on the connections you can place between the missions themselves?
Title: RELEASE - Freespacelancer
Post by: Goober5000 on January 04, 2005, 11:08:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
Do you mind me asking, Goober, what is the current limit on variables in any given mission?
Not sure, but I can check tomorrow.  The limit on persistent variables is 100 per mission for campaign-persistent and 100 per campaign for player-persistent.
Quote
Also, did you hit any limit on the connections you can place between the missions themselves?
If you mean in the campaign file, nope.  I'm pretty sure that's the same as the sexp limit.