Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Liberator on January 04, 2005, 11:05:54 pm
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Has anyone seen any of it?
It's almost least as good as the first SEED, but not quite because several of the the Gundam designs are derivative of previous Gundams(not from SEED). I have to say that I think I like the theme songs better than SEED though.
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Yea I follow it ^^
It's really great, can't wait for the next episode (13)
Music? Hmm, well youre right. SEED had a bit better music I suppose, but I can't really say that I haven't enjoyed Destiny soundtrack aswell.
I'm not really bothered with the Gundam designs. As long as they look cool enough and the show is otherwise enjoyable... I dig ^^
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:nod:
I was just suggesting that the Abyss looked a bit like Deathscythe is all.
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I haven't seen the series yet, but there's no denying that the Abyss is based on the Deathscythe.
Abyss:
(http://www.gundamuniverse.it/Seed_Destiny/ZGMF-X31S%20Abyss%20Gundam-file/zgmf-x31s.jpg)
Deathscythe:
(http://www.toonmasters.hpg.ig.com.br/entretenimento/18/Animes-Cartoons/Gundam/GW%20-%20Gundam%20Deathscythe.jpg)
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Post a pic of DS Hell, the resemblance is far more uncanny.
Deathscythe Hell(perhaps the coolest Gundam in Wing)
(http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01d2-closed.jpg)
Abyss(ahb his) Gundam
(http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/zgmf-x31s.jpg)
It's almost the same MS. If you forget that the DS was meant for close range stealth type ops and the Abyss has as much firepower as a battleship.
Something to note, all the new Gundams in Destiny are convertible somehow. The 3 stolen Gundams all have a Mobile Armor(single pilot, heavily armed, space only) mode. The Impulse is like the original Gundam, it's in 3 pieces(a core fighter, the Splendor, and a torso and leg section. For it to become active it also has 3 different "backpacks" with similar function to the Ayle, Sword, and Launcher pack for the original Strike gundam. And Athrun's Saviour gundam has a flight mode for high speed atmosphereic flight(from MAHQ.net, we haven't actually seen this in the show yet)
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Yea they really decided to multiply the amount of convertible gundams in destiny, compared to seed. Oh well, let's see if ******* will still own :p
(decided to keep the name hidden to avoid some kind of spoilers)
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Seen it, still deciding if I will sub it or not :)
What's cracking me up is a frien complaining about 'Transformers' Gundam, when Gundam in multiple parts exists since the first series. The Rx-78-2 (the first gundam for those who asks) was already in three parts : legs, torso+head, cockpit in the middle, the cockpit usable as a fighter.
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Yeah. Tell him if he's going to complain about anything, to complain about something substitive like the fact that they have enough firepower to blow the hell out of a PLANT(which only the Minerva's positron cannon could damage), but not enough power to run the PS armor for more than 5 or 6 minutes.
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You forgot the Nemesis Cannon from PLANT :D, the one who destroy a large terran fleet
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A-hem. Your data on these Gundams is not entirely accurate. The Deathscythe is in no way similar to the Abyss Gundam. The Deathscythe was developed as a stealth tactical mobile suit, equipped with powerful ECM jamming equipment to fool enemy radar systems. Its motif was "Grim Reaper", as evident by its demonic appearance, and a scythe as its primary weapon. The Deathscythe Hell was only an improvded version of this mobile suit, which also featured an active cloaking device to disappear from sight completely!
The Abyss Gundam was a Second Stage Gundam developed by ZAFT. It is an amphibious assault mobile suit, designed with aquatic combat in mind. It is armed with many beam cannons, which are intended to be used to bring down enemy battleship fleets. To maneuver more easily in water, the Abyss Gundam can transform into a mobile armor mode. I have not seen much of the series, but I can't imagine this mode would prove useful in space. Space combat is the specialty of one of its counterparts, the Chaos Gundam. The Gaia Gundam, additionally, was designed with ground combat in mind.
These three units were designed to operate in the three environments. Land, sea, and space. Savior Gundam is also a part of this collection, with its specialty being aerial combat. The Impulse Gundam is simply a ZAFT version of the Earth Alliance's Strike Gundam, with the ability to equip different mission packs based on the battle conditions.
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I never said otherwise delta, I was just commenting that the Abyss and Deathscythe look similar at first glance.
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Originally posted by Genryu
Seen it, still deciding if I will sub it or not :)
What's cracking me up is a frien complaining about 'Transformers' Gundam, when Gundam in multiple parts exists since the first series. The Rx-78-2 (the first gundam for those who asks) was already in three parts : legs, torso+head, cockpit in the middle, the cockpit usable as a fighter.
Ah yes, the good old Core Block System. It's interesting that it's made a return here, but it seems to be more of a gimmick than anything else. The "Top Flyer" and "Leg Flyer" modes of Impulse are very poorly designed. Also, in the case of the RX-78, RX-77, and RX-75, the Core Block System was really only supposed to be used in emergencies.
It was designed so that if a part of the mobile suit was critically damaged, the pilot could eject in a reliable fashion, and also save any combat data stored in the Core Fighter. Either the top or bottom sections could be ejected, or both to release the Core Fighter. Core Block Systems have been used in many designs. In some cases, such as with the ZZ Gundam and the S Gundam, they have even been used to create seperate fighters.
This is different from the G Armor system that the RX-78 used, which relied on two components (A and B) to be attached over the Gundam to form a kind of Mobile Armor mode. There were different modes of course. Parts A and B without the Gundam formed the G Fighter. Part A and the Gundam formed the G-Bull. Part B and the Core Fighter formed the G Sky. Part B and the Gundam were also used to form the humorous Gundam Sky, which was used in an attack against the Zakrello mobile armor.
I could go on for a while about this. ^^;
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My friend's said Destiny's not bad, but what I'm really waiting for are some high-quality DVD rips of Z.
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isn't Zeta out there in the US, in DVD ? I seem to recall something like that... ?
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The coolest thing about SEED-D has been the music so far. I love the track that plays when the three stolen Gundams lay waste to Armory-1, and the one when Minerva launches.
But the EA immediately launching another nuclear strike on PLANT in the first battle of the war and getting half their fleet wiped out? Yeesh, do they suck. And that Zamzazar thing, which gets destroyed not five minutes after it appears. Those Windam things suck ass as well - it seems the only decent hardware and competent personnel they have are on that blue special forces ship. I suppose that's what you get when your leader's a man who wears purple lipstick and abuses his cat ;)
IIRC Zeta isn't out in the US yet BTW, they've been trying to release it for like 2 years now.
(For you UC fans - http://www.geocities.jp/kenkoudaa/page081.html)
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The only reason the Zamzazar was destroyed was because Shinn is apparently one of the Perfect Coordinators(with the requisite SEED mode), like Kira and Athrun.(big surprise there huh?) If he hadn't been there, the Minerva would have been destroyed, because the Zamzazar was functionally invulnerable to her cannons(although I don't see how it could be immune to the tannhauser, since that cannon was capable of doing significant damage to the falling junius 7 PLANT fragment)
Windam's are probably the bomb when going against ASTRAYs or normal Zakus, but they were going up against a Gundam and 2 Elite Zakus, never mind the Minerva and her clouds of missle and other AAA fire.
Can I get an Admin to add a spoiler's warning to the thread title please?
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The only reason the Zamzazar was destroyed was because Shinn is apparently one of the Perfect Coordinators(with the requisite SEED mode), like Kira and Athrun.
Athrun wasn't a Perfect Coordinator, neither was Lacus, neither was Cagari, a natural, and they all went to SEED mode as well.
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Apologies then I haven't seen all of SEED yet. Perhaps the seed represents a form of enhanced consciousness that allhumans can achieve in moments of extreme stress, but only certain enhanced humans can learn to control it.
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Coordinator are genetically enhanced. Seed mode is sign of a superior evolution. Both aren't mutually exclusive.
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Bah, I still hate the Gundam design. So I'll keep the charadesign and keep watching Soukyou no Fafner, the mechas are much more to my taste :p
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I still favor Wing over the other Gundam series, mainly because of Deathscythe....
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Heretic !!!! :p
That being said, I'm waiting for Fafner to be entirely subbed, and i'll wath the series at once. Given that I'm working, and I must sleep a little to be functionnal, a 26 episodes series is watched in 4 days max :)
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Mind you, I've only seen a very limited number of the series. Specifically, 08th MS Team, which wasn't bad; SEED, which was good, though I didn't like the character animation style; G Gundam, which I didn't like much at all; and SD Gundam, which was just wrong.
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Originally posted by Genryu
Heretic !!!! :p
That being said, I'm waiting for Fafner to be entirely subbed, and i'll wath the series at once. Given that I'm working, and I must sleep a little to be functionnal, a 26 episodes series is watched in 4 days max :)
Might be a good idea, since the series has some difficulties to really "start", if you know what I mean. But what I like is... mmh, how to say... yeah, how cruel it can be. There's no mercy, even for the main characters :p
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Whoever came up with Wing - especially the guy in charge of animation - should rot in hell.
I have never seen any other show do as much recycling and abberant reuse of moneyshots - once the battle started I could pretty much tell frame to frame what would happen.
If you want some qulity though: Wath the movie trilogy made from the original.
It was made roughly 20 years ago, so don't espect spectacular animation - what still shocks and sends me flying though is despite THAT the show still rocks and carries quite a punch.
If you like 8th MS you'll love 0083 - it's a minor "episode" (13 ep OVA) set between Zeta and the Original about the last Zeon remnants doing a suicide to try to make people see some of their truth of the war.
The show is haunting and fantastic, it has it all:
A protagonist who is for one not a top gun badass pilot or an I don wanna fight superman in deceptive package, but an everyday green rookie who actually builds into a steady soldier.
Badass psychos on both sides of the conflict and the everyday people caught between the crossfire, along with the noble veterans who push on only for each other and the memory of the dozen lost comrades; for a fight they knew was lost several years ago.
Plus monster mobile suits, nukes and badass political scheming.
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08th MS Team shows the decent into fascist military dictatorship between the originial series(where they are a relative good guy) and Zeta(where they are the all-powerful military dictatorship that had to be stopped).
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Originally posted by Liberator
08th MS Team shows the decent into fascist military dictatorship between the originial series(where they are a relative good guy) and Zeta(where they are the all-powerful military dictatorship that had to be stopped).
Eh? Are you sure you aren't talking about 0083? 08th MS Team was a kind of side-story to 0079 (the original Gundam series). 0083 however showed us a terrible event (the Delaz Conflict) that lead to the creation of the Titans, who gradually usurped more and more of the Earth Federation's political and military power, in the name of defending the Earth Sphere against Zeonic remnants and other "troublesome" spacenoid uprisings (read: the protesters at 30 Bunch in Zeta).
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0083 sounds rather interesting. I may have to look into it at some point....
And about Wing, you have to admit it had some nice mecha designs, even if half the characters were idiots. In retrospect, I may like it just because it was the first actually decent anime I had ever seen....
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0083 showed the "historical" events that lead to the rise of the Titans, true, but there is less philosphical meandering between MS battles.
08th MS showed the philosophical events that led to the Titans, Shiro & Aina's "betrayal" of their respective armies to be with each other led showed the mindset of the command structure that essentially ran the EA. On the other hand, it made the Zeon commanders begin to rethink themselves, since Zeon was always more of a family type organization(kind of like the Mafia) which led to them being the Underdog forces in Zeta.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Apologies then I haven't seen all of SEED yet. Perhaps the seed represents a form of enhanced consciousness that allhumans can achieve in moments of extreme stress, but only certain enhanced humans can learn to control it.
That's pretymuch it, according to what I've heard/read several times.
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Episode 13 is available on torrent and there are over 4300 uploaders.
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saw it allready... actually I have watched the final part of that episode about 5 times straight ^^;
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It's that good?
Just go my torrent started, I hope it speeds up.
*edit*
That was neat! It wasn't the Battle Royale that I was expecting but it was cool none the less.
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yep, good entrance :nod:
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Especially liked how a special assassination commando pissed themselves in front of a teenager. Granted, they didn't know it was a teenager at the 'wheel', but still :p
Edit : And yes, the battle was a lesson in butt-kicking. Though on a Gundam forum, I've people gripping about the Freedom being out-dated :rolleyes:
They can't make mass producted weapons in 2 years able to tackle a state of the art Mobile Suit, especially with an ace piloting it...
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Freedom outdated? Compared to what exactly? It's the only nuclear powered suit in existence and it has the firepower of a battleship, manuverability that exceeds anything else in existence and belongs to the most powerful pilot in the universe.
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No wonder some people whine Freedom being a bit too owepowered :p
so what
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Kira's the one that's over powered, he probably could have taken those turkey's out with the basic Strike unit. :D
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I just saw the first episode (downloaded em all but it's a hassle to go through since I've got about four different anime waiting as well).
It's....okay so far. Can't really judge it yet.
I saw all fifty(ish) (it was more than 50, right?) Wing's, and that was a fun-ish show, so I think I'll like this one.
Best Gundam though? No contest.
(http://www9.brinkster.com/neocyrus/GundamW/WingZ3.jpg)
Zero pwned all.
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Mweh, I'm at 09. The ED is awesome, and the OP isn't that bad either.
Story is more interesting than Wing, that's for sure, since they've coupled a kind of a Nadesico thing into it (which wasn't working for Nadesico if I may say so myself).
Anyway, yeah, good anime. Hope it beats Wing.
Although.....Zero is still #1 Gundam....ever.
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Zero was ridiculously over-powered. But here were some over-powered add-ons to the suit in certains series. Check out the Dedrobium in 0083 or the Meteor in Seed.
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I suppose Zero was the 'best' Gundam overall, considering it could take any amount of enemy fire and still come out unscratched. As for best pilot, it'd be Norris from 08th MS Team. He owned everything in the best mobile suit battle in the history of Gundam. It felt realistic and gritty rather than the crappy super-human battles of other series', SEED included.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Kira's the one that's over powered, he probably could have taken those turkey's out with the basic Strike unit. :D
Haha, true :lol:
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I don't know why everybody's obsessed with Zero. So it has the single most powerful weapon ever. Need I remind you that Wufei nearly owned it with the Altron unit? It was only because Heero talked him down that he didn't waste it. There's no one "perfect" gundam. Though the Nu comes close, it's downfall was the hubris of it's pilot, who thought he was powerful enough to stop a colony drop without help.
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That being said, he had help, but the colony drop was stopped due to only his unit at the end :p
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I guess I'm gonna have to try and find Char's Counterattack somewhere and watch it again I seem to remember all the federal and zeonic forces joining forces to stop the colony drop, only that the Nu had more endurance than the Jagd Doga's(my favorite units from that particular story).
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My reasoning is simple : since the colony wasn't stopped due to inverse forces ( the MS trying to stop it), but with Newtypes power amplified by the Pyscommu system in the Nu Gundam, the credit for the stop of the drop is its.
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I thought that is had something to do with that metal cross thingy that Amuro had with him. Although, I don't have a lot of actual knowledge of the main UC storylines, only the side stories like 08th MS, 0080(tis a sad chapter) and 0083.
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Both char's and Amuro's cockpit was made of psycho-frame - an amplifier for Newtypes.
The two frames resonated with each other and simply put the mental power of the due was so strong that their desire to stop the colony overpowered the rest of the pilots in the area.
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I own that movie since 1990 and it's entirely in Japanese (2 hours!) no subtitles.... Awesome fricken movie (so go see it if you haven;t)
I always wondered HOW they stropped the drop. I thought maybe they were sacrificing themselves, bu it looked like they lived.
Ok one question though. Why did the 10-12 yo go nuts near teh end battle and kill a bunch of feddies? Especially that hot chick. Fricken traitior!
Anyway I loved 0083, Ko was definately a troubled pilot, but had that blonde engineer hot for him. The add-ons were ridiculously overpowered (both hero or bad guy gundams 01 and 02) could take on a battle fleet themselves.
I have but haven;t sat down and watched formula 91 yet. It is also in japanese no subtitles...
Wing was probably teh WORST gundam series ever made. It seemed to me so much teen angst that it MUST have been "gundam for chicks".
Persoanlly I loved Gundam X After War, and the Double X becme my favorite Gundam of all time (I bet with both satelite cannons it could destroy a colony!) That scene where Garoad fired the single version fro teh first time and took out like 30 suits in a 360 degree arc and glassed an area out to a kilometer was priceless, like a nuke was dropped.... Plus sickest villians award for Bloodmoon, and the telepathic twins, another notable achievement for a Gundam series!
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Well, I guess the young girl you talked about is Quess Paraya (greenhead with pigtails, right ?). She decided, upon meeting Char, that she would follow him in his plan to make all of humanity evolve into Newtypes. Said plan included dropping Axis (big space station) on Earh to force people to go into space, and let the planet rest. Quess was a strong Newtype (powerwise, equivalent to Lalah) and was given an experimental Mobile Armor by Char so that she could kill Feds to help him.
Both Char and Amuro had a Newtype-power amplificator built into their suit. Said powers are for the most part dependent on willpower. When the two suit were rejoined by a bunch of other suits, both Feds and Zeon, while trying to stop Axis falling on Earth, the amount of of willpower generated caused said system to overload and make what you could call a newtype explosion which managed to get Axis out of Earth attraction well.
Just my opinion, but many people said that Char and Amuro died in said explosion. Since we see something departing Axis after the explosion, I think at least Amuro, who still had a functionnal suit, could have lived on.
Just my two cents contribution :D
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Originally posted by Liberator
I don't know why everybody's obsessed with Zero. So it has the single most powerful weapon ever. Need I remind you that Wufei nearly owned it with the Altron unit? It was only because Heero talked him down that he didn't waste it. There's no one "perfect" gundam. Though the Nu comes close, it's downfall was the hubris of it's pilot, who thought he was powerful enough to stop a colony drop without help.
No.
The only reason Zero fell into the water, was because Heero had no intention of hurting Wufei - as you said, he was trying to talk him down. Nothing would be accomplished if Heero wasted Wufei, so he wasn't even trying.
In a real fight, Wufei would die quite fast. I thought that was clear even to monkies on trees.
Zero = pwn forever.
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Actually, no. Zero was too strong and not properly maintained. It was destroyed by the backlash of it's own weapon when it was assaulting the sheilded installation. So, since it was destroyed, Zero cannot pwn anything. Also, any weapon that can drive a pilot insane with just a few moments exposure during combat is a poor choice. The only reason that Heero didn't go nuts was because he was already a sociopath. The Zero system is for wussies any way, Duo and Wufei had a much larger killcount by the end of the war.
There are other gundams that a better looking and a couple that are far more powerful, the Freedom, for example. That's the best looking MS that Gundam has shown us is a whille.
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Don't change the subject, it's not who's the best looking.
Yeah, Zero was backslashed by its own huge ownage cannon, because that was the logical way of Zero dying. Zero decided from Heero's consciousness (after all, that IS the Zero system - merging with the pilot) that this was the last time, and it destroyed itself pretty much on purpose, because that's what Heero wanted.
The fact remains that if we take into account each Gundam's strengths and weaknesses, Zero ass-kicks all of them across the board, and the inventivness of the new (and pardon me, CRAP) Gundams, like the **** Shin is driving that's dependant on the Minerva, is just simply humiliating. Freedom is lovely, but it still isn't the rape-machine Zero is.
It's really all too simple. Zero was created to OWN all. And that's not up for argument. So let me change it for you.
Originally posted by Liberator
Actually, yes.
Zero is the strongest Gundam, followed by that red thing Zechs was driving (forgot the name), because of their special systems.
You can debate the rest on their own league. Zero and the red one are in a class of their own, and that class is known as "Rape Factors".
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You mean Epyon?
You're insane if you think Wing Zero+Zero system+Heero can beat someone who can actually see the future and attack from several directions at once in a coordinated way.
I also see that you are a Wing fanboi and are unwilling to accept that there are better Gundams out there.
But let's stay on topic now, please?
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Originally posted by Liberator
I guess I'm gonna have to try and find Char's Counterattack somewhere and watch it again I seem to remember all the federal and zeonic forces joining forces to stop the colony drop, only that the Nu had more endurance than the Jagd Doga's(my favorite units from that particular story).
Jagd Dogas? You must be refering to the Geara Dogas. The Jagd Dogas were special Newtype-use variants. We only saw two of those in CCA. One was piloted by..Guyinea (sp?). And the other by that whiny brat..whose name escapes me at the moment. The Gear Dogas however were the mass produced versions fielded by the Neo-Zeon soldiers. Some of them went over to try and push away the remains of Axis, as well as some GM IIIs, and even some Jegans I think.. In any case, only Amuro's Nu was capable of stopping it.
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And on a side note.. Wing Zero? Ech.. Not very tactically sound.. It's got a lot of power, yes, but it really puts almost all of its eggs in one basket with that Twin Buster Rifle. Without that, all it has is its vulcans, shoulder machineguns, and sabers.
A maneuverable mobile suit can dodge the rifle shots without too much difficulty. Up against something like the Hi-Nu or the Victory 2, the Wing Zero would be in serious trouble, even with the Zero System. A computer system can't compare to the power of a potent Newtype pilot.
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This one.
(http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/cca/ams-119.jpg)
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/cca/index.htm
Apologies, it is a Geara Doga. It is the ultimate evolution of the Zaku design. Of course the one I have is a much nicer color of green.
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Originally posted by delta_7890
And on a side note.. Wing Zero? Ech.. Not very tactically sound.. It's got a lot of power, yes, but it really puts almost all of its eggs in one basket with that Twin Buster Rifle. Without that, all it has is its vulcans, shoulder machineguns, and sabers.
A maneuverable mobile suit can dodge the rifle shots without too much difficulty. Up against something like the Hi-Nu or the Victory 2, the Wing Zero would be in serious trouble, even with the Zero System. A computer system can't compare to the power of a potent Newtype pilot.
Wing zero is a maneuverable suit, in fact it's one of the fastest suits in wing.
now IMO, it's simply plainly stupid to compare the ZERO system to Newtypes. I Think Heero will beat some newtype pilots, but more experienced ones, like Amuro will wipe the floor with him. He'll just use the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack, Disable ZERO, and maybe all Heero's weaps and finish him off.
BUT... Zero is a computer system... you can easylie mass-produce it...
Than you take some very good pilots, Coordinators maybe (we're combining universes, so why not? and they'll probaly master ZERO pretty fast) and suddenly have an army of 200 suits (ZAKUS would be cool) with pilots capable of predicting any move, and since there is no way those few newtypes capable of using the real strong attacks, can disable all of those suits...
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Since we're combining universes, I'll just get the leader of the Shuffle Alliance and the holder of the title, Gundam of Gundams.
(http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/g/gf13-017nj2.jpg)
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I really didn't like Wing Zero that much. Draws far too much attention to itself by that massive cannon, and isn't an innovative design at all, as it's basically an evolution on the original Gundam. I prefer Deathscythe, and it's equivalent in SEED....
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Originally posted by Liberator
I also see that you are a Wing fanboi and are unwilling to accept that there are better Gundams out there.
Of course, because there are none. Facts aren't up for discussion.
And fine by me if you want to move on...
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Let's look at some objective numbers shall we?
mahq.net lists Zero's fighting numbers as:
fighting 150
weapons 150
speed 160
power 140
armor 140
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-00w0.htm
Those numbers are based on assumptions that a standard Leo type suit acheives 100 in all those areas. The Zero's only ace is that massive cannon, which, once done away with, leaves the Zero with significantly reduced options. It's still a monumental step above a basic standard issue suit, but without it's cannon it's no better or worse than the Deathscythe.
The Freedom on the other hand is incapable of being disarmed aside from massive structual damage. The Freedom is also armored with Phase Shift armor that renders the suit virtually invulnerable to enemy fire within certain limits.
The pathetic Zero has it's gundanium armor certainly, but as was shown in the series, that is far from indestructible when beam weapons are in play.
So it stacks up like this:
Zero vs. Nu: Heero takes an early advantage and destroys several of Amuro's funnels. But Amuro quickly discovers that much of Zero's power is in the bloody cannon. He launches a blitzkreig with the remaining bits and dashes in to disarm Zero and destroy the "Buster Rifle" and then man-handles the Zero and dis-members it leaving the cockpit intact so he can gloat(he is an arrogant little prick after all)
Zero vs. Freedom: Heero gets a lucky shot with the Buster Rifle at 50% power and is stunned speechless when it doesn't appear to damage the Freedom at all. Kira responds, launching an all out assault with every weapon the Freedom has, from his "Balaena" plasma beam cannons(shoulders) to the "Xiphias" rail guns (hips). The Xiphias holes Zero's legs cutting the control linkages and forcing Heero to rely on his backpack vernier systems, meanwhile, the Balaena has done less significant, but telling damage all the same blowing off one shoulder armor section and evaporating half the "face" armor completely, along with the sensors behind it. Heero, blinded and helpless before a far superior enemy tries his favorite tactic, an incompetent attempt to kamikaze the enemy and blow himself to hell. He fails for the third time. And Kira surgically removes the cockpit and then explains to Heero why he was wrong to attack him and Heero is heard responding that Releena would probably like him.
I don't know what came over me, but there it is.
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Eeerrrrr.... As shown in Seed during his battle with Providence, Freedom is able to be destroyed by beam weapon too. And Given the sheer power contained in the Buster Rifle (munchkin weapon if there was ever one), one shot, even at 50% power, should be sufficient to destroy Freedom, if it isn't partially dodged or blocked with a shield.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Let's look at some objective numbers shall we?
mahq.net lists Zero's fighting numbers as:
fighting 150
weapons 150
speed 160
power 140
armor 140
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-00w0.htm
Those numbers are based on assumptions that a standard Leo type suit acheives 100 in all those areas. The Zero's only ace is that massive cannon, which, once done away with, leaves the Zero with significantly reduced options. It's still a monumental step above a basic standard issue suit, but without it's cannon it's no better or worse than the Deathscythe.
The Freedom on the other hand is incapable of being disarmed aside from massive structual damage. The Freedom is also armored with Phase Shift armor that renders the suit virtually invulnerable to enemy fire within certain limits.
The pathetic Zero has it's gundanium armor certainly, but as was shown in the series, that is far from indestructible when beam weapons are in play.
So it stacks up like this:
Zero vs. Nu: Heero takes an early advantage and destroys several of Amuro's funnels. But Amuro quickly discovers that much of Zero's power is in the bloody cannon. He launches a blitzkreig with the remaining bits and dashes in to disarm Zero and destroy the "Buster Rifle" and then man-handles the Zero and dis-members it leaving the cockpit intact so he can gloat(he is an arrogant little prick after all)
Zero vs. Freedom: Heero gets a lucky shot with the Buster Rifle at 50% power and is stunned speechless when it doesn't appear to damage the Freedom at all. Kira responds, launching an all out assault with every weapon the Freedom has, from his "Balaena" plasma beam cannons(shoulders) to the "Xiphias" rail guns (hips). The Xiphias holes Zero's legs cutting the control linkages and forcing Heero to rely on his backpack vernier systems, meanwhile, the Balaena has done less significant, but telling damage all the same blowing off one shoulder armor section and evaporating half the "face" armor completely, along with the sensors behind it. Heero, blinded and helpless before a far superior enemy tries his favorite tactic, an incompetent attempt to kamikaze the enemy and blow himself to hell. He fails for the third time. And Kira surgically removes the cockpit and then explains to Heero why he was wrong to attack him and Heero is heard responding that Releena would probably like him.
I don't know what came over me, but there it is.
Whoah, there's a mass heap of speculation (actually...illogical speculation...most of it is quite stupid as well, sorry) if I've ever seen some. Slow down, you didn't even get the basics correctly.
Now I see the problem. You don't seem to understand what a One on One battle means.
I'm not talking about character constrictions within the anime, just the suit ones - because that is the only fair way to compare them.
Let's assume for the moment that there ARE other people who can pilot Zero aside from Heero Yui (in fact, throw the characters out of the ****ing equation, we're not discussing characters, we're discussing which GUNDAM is the BEST).
So, assume that your favorite pilot is piloting both the Zero and your favorite Gundam (Freedom as it appears), and try hypothesize on which GUNDAM would win, providing he pilots both to the best of his abilities.
The answer is always the same, and that is "Wing Zero".
Why? The cannon is nice, but it's kinda useless since it's slow. If it DOES land a hit, Game Over - but let's assume that it doesn't since the opposite Gundam Pilot is skilled. What makes Wing Zero superior to everything, is the ZERO system which you seem to be forgetting about quite conveniently.
ZERO SYSTEM+WING ZERO GUNDAM > ANY OTHER GUNDAM.
Get it? It's the Zero system that owns everything, and thusly, the Wing Zero.
We're done. I'm tired of scribbling this very simplistic **** on the board for you.
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So it does always come back to the pilot.
Compared to what, exactly, does the Zero system "own"?
To my understanding of what it does, it feeds all the combat data directly into the pilots mind thus allowing the pilot to make decisions faster.
Any proper Newtype pilot, will be able to read the Zero's pilot's mind and take appropriate action before the pilot himself can react to the data the Zero system is feeding him. Also, SEED mode is like having a Zero system inside the brain with all the bonuses that that entails.
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Can't we just call it even and end this argument?
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He started it...:p
I really just wanted to talk about SEED Destiny as the new eps became available.
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They add any more stealth-type Gundams in either Destiny or SEED after the Strike is destroyed?
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Ep 14 raw is out.
Laughed my head off with the face Yuna was making :D
Another bit that amused me highly was seeing an Astray throwing is rifle to escape being shot down by Freedom.
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The enemy MS carrier, Girty Lue, has a mirage colloid system.
But none of the new MSes have stealth capabilities, save for the Abyss ability to manuver underwater.
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yeah, Yuunas whine was comedy gold indeed :lol:
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Well, I guess I'm looking forward to monday then.
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I think it will be later than Monday. They've got to remake the opening and ending, since they changed, and this always take a bit of time since nearly every sub group do this karaoke style, and those are simply *****es to time -_-
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Maybe it'll be monday, with no openings. I mean the content is what really matters.
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Originally posted by Liberator
So it does always come back to the pilot.
Compared to what, exactly, does the Zero system "own"?
To my understanding of what it does, it feeds all the combat data directly into the pilots mind thus allowing the pilot to make decisions faster.
Any proper Newtype pilot, will be able to read the Zero's pilot's mind and take appropriate action before the pilot himself can react to the data the Zero system is feeding him. Also, SEED mode is like having a Zero system inside the brain with all the bonuses that that entails.
And there we are. You have no idea what you're talking about. Next time, learn **** about the topic before you start arguing. Saves time.
However, one more factor put the Wing Zero above everything else: the cockpit's "Zero System," which allowed the pilot's mind to interface directly with the Gundam's combat computer. Although the exact nature of the Zero System's operation is unclear, it appeared to operate by "sampling" the pilot's thoughts and, combining them with current combat data, presented the pilot with various alternate outcomes. Thus, depending on the pilot's mood, the Zero System could tell him/her how to achieve total victory... or decisive defeat. Nevertheless, the mental stresses the Zero System would place on the pilot would be too great for any ordinary human to handle, and even the five mad scientists saw the dangerous turn their work was taking. And thus, the Wing Gundam Zero project was shelved. A copy of the plans went with each of the five scientists when they broke up and went underground to pursue their own individual plans for revolution against OZ. The Wing Zero design would serve as a base model for the five Gundams that would actually be built and sent to Earth.
Zero is the ultimate Gundam, regardless of pilots. Nothing comes down to pilots, because we're talking quality of Gundams. Zero is the best Gundam. Full Stop.
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Can't we just call it even and end this argument?
No need, because I won before we started.
Now, because I know most of this is hard to comprehend, I have managed to draw a really complex diagram for you.
(http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptblackdove/WGundamZeroCustomAdd.jpg)
Now if you want to discuss pilots in battles, that's a whole other topic.
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I've assembled about a dozen of those models BTW, a local store had a box full on sale for $2 apiece, I even tried different color schemes. I must say that it looks smashing in black and gold.
I also see that you must have some kind of phallic attachment to that bloody cannon. Zero's BIGGEST flaw is that damn cannon. If it's damaged, disarmed or otherwise marginalized(ie close combat, ala Epyon) it's quite easy to defeat him if the MS is worth a damn.
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Zero owns because of its system.
The cannon is just the thing that makes it scream "RAPE". That's why I like it.
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Actually Turn A would own Zero, and every other mobile suit. You just activate Moonlight Butterfly and everything on the planet vaguely technological turns to dust. Even that stupid buster cannon wouldn't be much use when your enemy's attacking you from the other side of the world. Once those nanites are released, game over. :)
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Epyon could probably take Zero in a duel, as it has the Zero System and better short-range weapons.
Here's a question: How do you think Deathscythe Hell would fare against Gundams from the other series, assuming neither side had Newtypes for pilots?
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I wasn't going to bring up the Turn A, since a lot of fans(UC and AC) abhor it. I've found the first 18 episodes to be very well made, if a bit slow to get going, with both sides falling over themselves to prevent the war from esaclating to a point where it can't be stopped. But, yes, the Moonlight Butterfly from either the Turn A or the Turn X is the single most powerful attack that can be conceived of. And it must fall into UC continuity because all the suits they are digging up are Zakus and Kapools. But then, there's the vision of Wing Zero later in the series...
Deathscythe would fare well against other Gundams, it has a very effective stealth system(not as effective as Mirage Colloid though) that he can attack through, he's very fast, and there's always the psychological aspect of the design since Deathscythe was designed to frighten the enemy with it's demonic design.
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The buster cannon??? please, as long as the Sat cannon is charged it owns... As for XX Dual Sat cannons owns you x2 !
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"bUt tEh bU573r c4nn0n pwnz0rs a11!"
To be honest however, I don't really like all these supermegakilleverythingcannons. It takes the emphasis off of story and character and puts in on showy mech battles, which is why most of the UA and AC fanbois don't like Turn A.
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Anyway, fourteen released as a sub.
New OP and ED. I like the OP better to Ignition, the ED is inferior to Reason.
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cool, can't wait.
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Originally posted by Gortef
yeah, Yuunas whine was comedy gold indeed :lol:
Indeed.
That was a much more satisfying episode that #13. And this is going to sound nerdy and girly and whatnot, but I hope that is the last we see of Yuna and his manipulative father. Athrun is the only one for Cagali.
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I think there are many many many AthxCag fans who will back you up ^^
I loved the scene where Freedom flew with the pigeons, poster material if you ask me.
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Absolutely, I copied it out with the Copy Image feature in Media Player Classic. It replaced the scene with Kira looking at Junius 7 falling as my wallpaper.
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Oh frecking hell. That new Zaku-derivative is called Gouf (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/gouf.htm). I'm not a UC purist, but meh. :no:
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At least their consistent. I mean this is mostly a retelling of the original story with new(and better, IMO) characters and newer and better graphics. At least they aren't recycling the damnable GunCannon or that besotted GunTank.
Recycling is a good thing when the results look that good.
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It's hardly a recycling of the old story. Perhaps the first half of SEED was, but the new series is completely uncharted territory. They should stop regurgitating Kira and Co. and start focusing on the new characters. And personally I hated Kira, his only personality trait was his emotional weakness in the face of war. Now he doesn't even seem to exhibit that.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Absolutely, I copied it out with the Copy Image feature in Media Player Classic. It replaced the scene with Kira looking at Junius 7 falling as my wallpaper.
Hahaha, I still have the Kira-Junius7 scene as a wallpaper :lol:
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Originally posted by SadisticSid
It's hardly a recycling of the old story. Perhaps the first half of SEED was, but the new series is completely uncharted territory. They should stop regurgitating Kira and Co. and start focusing on the new characters. And personally I hated Kira, his only personality trait was his emotional weakness in the face of war. Now he doesn't even seem to exhibit that.
At least he's not a whiny little twerp now and he probably won't turn into an arrogant bastard like Amuro did.