Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: MetalDestroyer on January 14, 2005, 05:32:38 pm
-
Just one question, how to create texture ? what kind of structure have the jpg/tga/pcx file to represent texture ?
I try to skin the model with a texture pack but unfortunately the texture are too small.
Take a look :
(http://img57.exs.cx/img57/6154/X_wing_soonFinish_Color_01.jpg)
(http://img57.exs.cx/img57/6030/X_wing_soonFinish_Color_02.jpg)
-
hmmmm. actually (and I could be wrong) that the model itself is too small. and how did you texture it? i tried it myself and couldn't find anything to use custom textures.
-
No, the model is bigger than the texture. So, I can't texturized it well.
Also, look at this picture where you can use custom textures :
(http://img94.exs.cx/img94/1402/Cobra_Texturing.jpg)
-
Bah, this is why i really never liked TS in the first place. too complicated :D
is that a german version?
-
It's french.
-
french and german are actually pretty close.
-
Ts 3.2 use English but, my windows use French ^^
-
Originally posted by Cobra
french and german are actually pretty close.
:lol: :D :lol:
-
IMO, anyway. back on topic. you know metal, that texture job ain't bad.
[EDIT] i have one suggestion, but it concerns the model itself. see how you've got the model sticking out under the bottom like that? try and level it with the rest of the bottom.
-
Originally posted by Cobra
french and german are actually pretty close.
It's obvious you speak neither of them. :)
-
i speak a little bit of both, thank you very much.
just can't type it out, they're hard to spell... ;)
-
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
No, the model is bigger than the texture. So, I can't texturized it well.
Also, look at this picture where you can use custom textures :
Maybe you should try TS 6.0 or above. The diferences are astounding. The custom texture adding section is much improved. Libraries are easier accessed. TS 3.2 is good for starters, but it gets limited awfull fast.
-
Is it possible to import the model into 3DS and texturized it.
-
@MetalDestroyer I'd suggest to use Lith Unwrap to unwrap the the ship. You should use a powerful tool like Photoshop (that one is expensive) or Gimp (free).
An optimal map size for your fighter is 1024*1024.
You can also use Lith to convert your model to *.3ds.
@Cobra Dann zeig mal wie gut du meine Sprache kannst. ;)
-
MetalDestroyer, i'm kind of scared at how many sides those cylinders have. you should probably knock them down to 18 sides and use the extra polygons to add detail to the overly simple fuselage.
-
Carl : What do you mean by using extra polygon ?
-
He means make the engines less round (delete edges) and put more detail elsewhere. The wings could use a little extra work. :)
-
okay, let's say you want to make a fighter model. with the SCP you don't want to make them more than 2000 polygons, so you have to ration them. if you make all of your cylinders 50 sided, that's 52 polys per cylinder. each of your guns looks to be made of about 5 cylinders, so that's 260 polys for one gun, and 1040 for all 4 of them. so far with only the guns done you've used more than up half your polygons. with the engines being a bunch of cylinders too, you'll have none left for your fuselage (main body of the ship.)
now with 18 sides per cylinder, they still look round, but you've only got 20 polygons for each, which means you've only used 400 polys on your guns, freeing up some for the rest of your ship.
-
Ok. How to know the poly count in Truespace , and how to reduce cylinder side ?
-
DaBrain, i try to load the entire X wing, but, I've got an error message said, Unable to determine file type.
But if i load just a part of the entire model (guns, r2d2, wings, reactor, main part), it work perfect. But when convert into 3ds format, for some part it is impossible de convert them, because my group is mistaken due to an outnumber of cylinders/cube (guns/wing).
Otherwise, i can't open those .3ds with 3DS Max 5.
Is it possible to texturized the model into Lith Unwrap ?
-
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
Ok. How to know the poly count in Truespace?
select the x-wing and right-click on the white arrow button. A window should pop up in the lower left hand corner of your screen, and on the left edge of it, about 2/3rds of the way down, it should say #faces. the number to the right of that is the poly count. a face is another word for a polygon.
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
and how to reduce cylinder side ?
right click the add cylinder button. another window should pop up in the lower left hand corner of your screen. in the white box to the right of where it says longitude, change it to 18 or fewer. best to stay above 10. while you're there, make sure the latitude is 2 and the top radius is 1. when you've made your adjustments click on the add cylinder button to create a cylinder and replace the old ones on your model with those.
-
Ok, actually the model has 1456 poly, and the cylinder has per default setting :
- Latitude 2
- Longitude 16
- Radius 1
Gun has 146 poly, and for the wing + gun, they have 303 poly.
-
alright, now just add detail to the body.
-
Is it possible to make that effect in Truespace without redone the body ?
(http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/x34.jpg)
-
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
DaBrain, i try to load the entire X wing, but, I've got an error message said, Unable to determine file type.
It is a *.cob file, right?
The problem is that you've used mutiple 'parts'
You can neither load it to Lith, nor convert it to *.pof like this.
But if i load just a part of the entire model (guns, r2d2, wings, reactor, main part), it work perfect. But when convert into 3ds format, for some part it is impossible de convert them, because my group is mistaken due to an outnumber of cylinders/cube (guns/wing).
That's the proof for what I just wrote.
Otherwise, i can't open those .3ds with 3DS Max 5.
Well, this should work.
I hope you've used "import" in MAX.
Is it possible to texturized the model into Lith Unwrap ?
You can only unwrap it in Lith. You'll need another software to create the texture. But you can load a texture in Lith.
BTW the effect on this pic could be bumpmapping.
-
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
Is it possible to make that effect in Truespace without redone the body ?
yes. just use the various polygon draw tools and beveling.
-
Where exactly are "various polygon draw tools" ??
-
DaBrain : So if i want to convert my entire model into pof, how do i do ?
-
I try the beveling, but i can't bevel elsewhere than the main face.
Here the problem :
(http://img37.exs.cx/img37/2958/xwing_bevel.jpg)
As you can see, if i bevel the red zone, Ts bevels only the face selected or i want bevel inside the face selected, to looks like to the last picture.
How to do that ?
-
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
DaBrain : So if i want to convert my entire model into pof, how do i do ?
I don't know if this is possible.
You'd have to join all parts to one mesh.
-
Add more polys to the main body smoothing it out before you start bevelling stuff. The nose cone should be more curved for example.
-
How to smooth poly ? Which button ?
-
Is it better ?
(http://img140.exs.cx/img140/5148/xwing_smooth.jpg)
-
Eh, theres no smooth poly button, least not one that does what I mean. What I mean is rework the nose cone and body to be more accurate before you start beveling stuff like hull plates, as it just looks like a box at the minute.
-
Is it better ? Or i have still to accurate the body
(http://img57.exs.cx/img57/5098/xwing_smooth_Nose.jpg)
-
What is the difference between Object Union and Glue option ?
-
One's a boolean (object union), which takes two seperate pieces of geometry and makes them one. If it works properly it will eliminate vertexes and faces within the outermost volume, and create edges where two faces meet. Gluing is just a grouping tool , and the pieces will remain seperate and can be moved seperately but will not be combinable through geometry modifications.
-
Definite improvement, nose cone could do with being narrower though, roughly half the width of the fuselage below the cockpit with the fuselage tapered into it.
-
booliens will make a mess of your geometry, you need to be able to fix this after it happens.
-
Ok, thx for all. So the best thing, if i want to make a scp ship and import the entire, is to use Object Union , right ?
I don't know how to make irregular plates, so, just for fun, i mount all the part, just to see what it be look like.
The actual model have 2048 poly, and soon, i will to redone the entire wing with better detail.
The main part took 858 poly.
(http://img159.exs.cx/img159/6865/xwing_all_bevel_01.jpg)
(http://img101.exs.cx/img101/4894/xwing_all_bevel_02.jpg)
-
:yes:
-
Fecking eh! Man!
Donate it to the SW project! They'd love it!
-
I don't forget this ^^
I 'm thinkink to ask Top Ace if i can join them since i know how to make model into Ts.
BUT, i've to finish the model. And the polycount is more than 2000 poly. So the model can't be recognize by SCP, if i read carefully Carl advices on the first page.
-
...uh...have you seen how many polys the Hi poly Herc and Fenris have?
-
No, i never try to see their poly.
-
If you want to bevel a smaller tiles you will need to use the quad divide first. And frame out how you want it to look then bevel it. Then you can delete the extra lines later. Thanks to bring the little button to my attention. I've never noticed it before, but it is a hell of a time saver.
(http://images5.theimagehosting.com/fighter2.5.jpg)
-
just to qualify, it's not the extra edges, but the extra vertices that matter when you use quad divide. If you leave the verts, you'll end up with some combination of extra faces and illegal geometry.
-
That's why I delete them. :)
*edit* Stratcomm you by any chance have teh .cob file of the Raynor still? I deleted the orginal copy along time ago when I first made the darn thing.
-
I know any experienced modeler will, but for the new guys it's important to point out.
As for the Raynor, I should still have it on a backup CD or something. It won't be the original though; it'll be the entire scene in the form that was released. I'll take a look when I have a little more time. Out of curiosity, what was your old nick?
-
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
BUT, i've to finish the model. And the polycount is more than 2000 poly. So the model can't be recognize by SCP, if i read carefully Carl advices on the first page.
Carl's advice was only a guideline. The actual cut off point is somewhere around 25,000 polys IIRC.
That doesn't mean it's a bad guideline though. The more polys you put into a single fighter model the less of them you can have onscreen.
Remember however that at the moment textures are a bigger performance drain than models.
-
Ok, thanks. About texturing, how can i do ?
DaBrain told i can make it with Photoshop but my skill are very low.
So, if i do with photoshop, how the texture will be look like in structure ?
-
Check out the X-Wing Alliance tut in the HL2 Resources HomePage section. It's for a Micromedia proggy, but should none the less be useful.
-
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
Ok, thanks. About texturing, how can i do ?
DaBrain told i can make it with Photoshop but my skill are very low.
So, if i do with photoshop, how the texture will be look like in structure ?
Ok, this might not be the perfect way to do it, but it's my way to do it.
Create a new layer. (rename it to: lines)
Use the line tool to create the basic structure of the ship. Armor plates for example. (size 1-2)
Do not draw anything else on this layer.
Now create another new layer.
Click on the 'lines' layer and use the magic wand tool. (0)
Select an armor plate. Now you have to place something in this.
There are two possibilities: You create a material map yourself (metal, wood, ...), which is probably too hard, or you search for some free maps. There are tons of them in the net.
Now use the copy tool (+ALT) and copy a part from the material map into your selection. I'd suggest to add some shading now. (Brush tool)
If you're done with the base texture, it will still look very boring.
So now the real fun begins. ;)
There are too many things you can do now. I'll just give some examples.
(I end up with over 20 layers most of the time. ;) )
Add a new layer. (decals)
Place some numbers and stripes on this layer. Good places for this are the wings.
With your X-Wing model you know where to place them anyway.
Add a new layer (dunno, perhaps somehting like 'dirt'.
Search for a rust texture in the web. And use the copy tool to place it on some areas of the ship. Play a bit around with the layer styles when you're done.
This probably aint the best example as the Starfox mod is not aiming for a realistic look, but it's a pretty simple texture. So anybody could create it.
The UV map:
(http://img102.exs.cx/img102/8086/cfighter16aa.jpg)
Adding some structure:
(http://img102.exs.cx/img102/5949/cfighter29ut.jpg)
The 'line' layer' stage:
(http://img102.exs.cx/img102/3760/cfighter31vr.jpg)
Shading and structure replacement (only one part is done by now):
(http://img102.exs.cx/img102/130/cfighter49kr.jpg)
Stripes:
(http://img102.exs.cx/img102/7666/cfighter52be.jpg)
A simple trick ;) :
(http://img102.exs.cx/img102/4821/cfighter67lm.jpg)
Ok, the last one is only a cloud layer placed on the top of the layers. This is cheap. I've only added it cause I had to release a preview.
Note: original map size: 1024².
(http://img102.exs.cx/img102/1559/cfighter7qs.jpg)
-
Oups, double post.
-
Ok thanx for the explaination :)
I've take some texture from a picture. So, it's not great.
But now you give me how to proceed with texture, i will work hard after i finish the whole model :)
(http://img62.exs.cx/img62/7696/xwing_all_bevel_texture.jpg)
(http://img156.exs.cx/img156/9347/xwing_all_bevel_texture2.jpg)
-
Originally posted by DaBrain
...
The UV map:
http://img102.exs.cx/img102/8086/cfighter16aa.jpg
How do you have this ?? With Truespace or Photshop ?
Which option will give that result ?
-
You can get this with several programs. IMO you should use Lith.
-
Personally, I appreciate your efforts, I think that it is more than excellent being one of your first works, and I think you have the numbers to become a good modeller, but as it is now we're not going to use it in the swtc.
We already have an xwing, modelled by greywolf and textured by me. It isn't all that bad but it's a bit low poly since it was done for vanilla fs2.
We are probably going to substitute it in future but only if we'll find/make a more than excellent, finished (model, textures, lods, debris....) one.
Consider that we have permission to use Darksaber's one, so we are not going to accept anything less than it, take it as a reference: http://www.darksaber.gaylenol.com/craftxwaupreb.htm
This doesn't have to stop you of course: I was planning to do it on my own if I'll find time, and if not to use darksaber's, but if you'll be able to make what we need we'll use it. Just remember that our bottom line for this craft is...very high.
Personally I'd suggest you to complete that model (and maybe some others) in order to gain firstable experience in modelling, texturing and, most important, in putting a model in game.
BTW if you need references: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/exhibit/xwing.html http://www.starshipmodeler.com/starwars/smith_sw.htm#rebby
-
Thanks. I know Darksaber, their model for XWA are very impressive.
And, yes, modelling more and more permit me to gain experience.
But, for texturing, it will more difficult.
And within DaBrain i can now, make some really good stuff. Of course it won't be very impressive at first. ^^
About lods, debris and attribut gun effect for scp or others, how can it be done ?
After finish this first model, i want testing the model into Fs 2 SCP with the possiblity to use his quad laser and his proton torpedos.
But i don't know how to proceed.
-
If this is intended to be an ingame model I'd get rid of all the bevels, as they arent going to be noticeable.
-
Yep, i have a old save without those bevel.
-
Originally posted by StratComm
I know any experienced modeler will, but for the new guys it's important to point out.
As for the Raynor, I should still have it on a backup CD or something. It won't be the original though; it'll be the entire scene in the form that was released. I'll take a look when I have a little more time. Out of curiosity, what was your old nick?
I used to be CODEDOG ND a looong time ago.
-
Originally posted by DaBrain
http://img102.exs.cx/img102/8086/cfighter16aa.jpg
That's a really inefficient use of UVspace you know. You could probably double the effective res of your texs by doing some basic optimization of the pieces. I did the attatched in about 5 mins in PSP, and it's easier in Lith.
Probably a waste to redo this ship texs and all, but you should consider it for future models.
-
To have those UV mapping in Lith, i have to load one model at once ? and then what i can do after ?
-
This should help you out. :)
http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/
-
Thanks again :)
-
The new x wing T-65 (not finish), 2048 Poly.
(http://img159.exs.cx/img159/9421/xwing_uber_version.jpg)
(http://img159.exs.cx/img159/1144/xwing_uber_version_02.jpg)
(http://img159.exs.cx/img159/9710/xwing_uber_version_03.jpg)
(http://img159.exs.cx/img159/7474/xwing_uber_version_04.jpg)
-
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
hey, MD, can you give me a link to the solidify extension? i've been looking all over for a download but every result is an article.
-
Originally posted by Thrilla
I used to be CODEDOG ND a looong time ago.
Were you on the PS staff originally, then?
-
What do you mean by Solidify extension ??
-
the one where once you solidify it, you don't see every poly unless you move it in the model viewers.
-
Per default you have this option into Ts, looks carefully.
And do a maintain your left clic and select the one which represent 3 cubes.
(http://img155.exs.cx/img155/4233/Cobra_solidify.jpg)
-
oh, ic. let me check.
-
just checked. that's to render it. it doesn't make it solid.
-
Ugh, so i don't understand what you want with solidify ?
I thought it was the render without seeing the grid.
-
Originally posted by Black Wolf
That's a really inefficient use of UVspace you know. You could probably double the effective res of your texs by doing some basic optimization of the pieces. I did the attatched in about 5 mins in PSP, and it's easier in Lith.
Probably a waste to redo this ship texs and all, but you should consider it for future models.
Well, it wasn't me who unwraped it.
My unwrap skills are horrible. ;)
I think I can unwrap some models now, but it takes me forever.
I'm glad we have someone in our team who can do it. ;)
And he's getting better and better. :)
@MetalDestroyer That's a really nice model.
At this rate you'll get a PM to join our mod soon. ;7
-
Originally posted by aldo_14
Were you on the PS staff originally, then?
PS staff? nope.
I was part of the TBP fredders, but just as soon as won that contest I had too much RL stuff happen that I couldn't do anything.
-
MD, would you want your model to look really crappy? you need the solidify ext to solidify your poly's, so you don't see right through the model. it's pretty obivous why you need it.
-
DaBrain, thx. If i receive some PM, is it for the Inferno mod ?
Cobra -> Give me a picture with solidify Extension, i don't know what is it looks like really. Perhaps, i know but now, I can't say what is it.
-
Nope, fom "Shadows of Lylat".
-
Cobra -> ok, i search into Google the solidify.tsx and i found link BUT unfortunately it's especially for Ts 4.0 and 5.0.
Here the link in case of somebody want :
http://tvanonselen.tripod.com/solidify.zip
-
Dabrain -> Okay, i just see to logos under your nickname i suppose you made only Inferno and MindGames.
-
That's because the StarFox thingy isnt hosted here.
-
Uh, what does that TS plugin "Solidify" do, afterall? What´s it for?
-
almost nothing, if you can model properly
-
The only use that I've found for solidify is to be able to modify pofs that were converted to .cob, because PCS does something funny with geometry creation.
-
Is it possible into Ts 3.2 to replace the default background by a new background color (Black, or another color) ?
And about texturing, what is the best to use ?
- the paint brush ?
- material retangle ?
-
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
Is it possible into Ts 3.2 to replace the default background by a new background color (Black, or another color) ?
yes. right-click on the render button. the scene render options window will pop up in the lower left hand corner. to the right of where it says background, right-click on color. a color picking pallete will show up.
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
And about texturing, what is the best to use ?
- the paint brush ?
- material retangle ?
use paint brush and the other tools in its menu for texturing. and material rectangle for putting on decals. i rarely use the latter myself.
-
Ok, thanks anymore.
-
Ok, now, i begin texturing the model, but i've got some problem. I make my own texture within a shot from Ts and then i modify this shot to create texture like the following :
(http://img82.exs.cx/img82/9233/xwing_wing_upcopier_b.jpg)
But, unfortunately, the texture is larger than the upper left wing size.
I don't know how to proceed, i try into Lith Unwrap but, I can't put the texture into one face, instead of that Lith push texture in the entire model.
Here the actual model without my own texture.
(http://img92.exs.cx/img92/9822/xwing_uber_version_05b.jpg)
(http://img92.exs.cx/img92/4877/xwing_uber_version_05e.jpg)
The same but with another color :
(http://img115.exs.cx/img115/4507/xwing_uber_version_05_grey.jpg)
-
Hum, i'm in trouble now with Lith Unwrap and Ts.
I load the cob file into Lith for texturing, i put the texture well, then i save the wing, without traingulate it in cob format.
I reload this in Ts and what i see, the engine reactor lokks weird, the Hole has disappear why ??
But if i look properly in wireframe, the hole is still here.
(http://img166.exs.cx/img166/6253/Bug.jpg)
-
Originally posted by KARMA
Consider that we have permission to use Darksaber's one
You do? What happened to him, he stumbled on "nice" and got a revelation reading the dictionary?
-
DS can be nice...if you ask him nicely.
-
Originally posted by Nico
You do? What happened to him, he stumbled on "nice" and got a revelation reading the dictionary?
we didn't really ask, he came here with some other guys about one year ago giving us permission to use his stuff. I guess they were interested in the scp project.
Unfourtunately we had always problems in finding people to convert stuff from other sources (actually whe had problems in finding people to do things at all), that's the main problem of the sw tc.
-
I wanted to test my ship into Fs 2, but PCS tell me that my model have Polygon Point > 20 . What does that mean ?
-
*shrugs* you got me. i'm just now learning how to model...
-
The reason is that the faces around the "lip" of the opening are convex, meaning that you can draw lines across them in such a way that the line goes outside of the polygon that you want. Modeling programs generally dislike this scenario, and right now Truespace is interpreting what you have as two faces, one capping the outer edge, the other facing inwards and capping the engine hole. So what you've almost certainly got right now looks like the left part of the following pic, while it should look like (at least) the one on the right.
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/example.jpg)
The polygon points thing is probably also coming from here. Freespace now triangulates everything as it's loaded, but with Vanilla there were certain rules of geometry that couldn't be broken if the game was to work. One of them was that a face could contain no more than 20 points on its edges, which leads to the error you're seeing. In all likelyhood, the face failing you're seeing and the points/poly limit are both at the same place in the model.
-
Actually, i've done the x wing with only 4 parts (the main part + the 4 wings). Each wings contain Gun/Engine/wing. i only use Union to mount different part into one (Gun/Engine/Wing), is it the reason of those > 20 Polygon Points ?
But, if i want to convert only the main part, PCS tell me there are no group. How can i attribut Group for my model ?
-
You've got to group the main LOD with a local light, using the glue tool. Subobjects should be attached similarly. To answer your other questions,
- Yes, boolean Union without proper cleanup (which takes a good bit of experience) can most definitely cause polygons with too many points. In reality, and especially for HTL, everything should be triangulated anyway.
- The problem with the engine, as I tried to illustrate earlier, is that you've either only got one face for the flat ring around the front of the engine depression, or you've got a number of faces much less than the number of edges on the cylinder. Both will cause problems, especially if you get it converted. Use the create edge tool to split those faces up.
- In reality, you should probably be trying to make the whole ship one object, unless you're going to try to get the wings to open and close. Clipping isn't as bad as it used to be, but convention is to unify everything if it isn't supposed to be a dedicated subobject.
-
Originally posted by StratComm
You've got to group the main LOD with a local light, using the glue tool. Subobjects should be attached similarly.
So, it means, i have to glue a local source wherever in the main part, doesn't it ?
-
Oups, forgot this :
Both will cause problems, especially if you get it converted. Use the create edge tool to split those faces up.
Where exactly can i find the create edge button ?
I see Edit Edge but not create.
-
Edit edge is probably it. I haven't used Truespace in a while.
-
Ok, so, for the moment, here some screens :
(http://img176.exs.cx/img176/6950/Squadron.jpg)
(http://img195.exs.cx/img195/3497/xwing_uber_version_05_grey_c.jpg)
(http://img176.exs.cx/img176/3488/xwing_uber_version_05_grey_d_close.jpg)
-
:yes2: :) :yes: awesome. now, release it when you're finished. i'll even mirror it from HC.
[EDIT] just noticed something in your last pic. put a line betwwen the wings. it'll look more realistic.
-
If it's supposed to be a game model, that isn't something to be worried about. On a render model, you'd just bevel those edges a little and presto, instant line.
-
that's what i was implying.
-
Originally posted by Cobra
:yes2: :) :yes: awesome. now, release it when you're finished. i'll even mirror it from HC.
[EDIT] just noticed something in your last pic. put a line betwwen the wings. it'll look more realistic.
Urg, what are you talking about ? Where do you want I put line ? In which picture ??
And, yes I prepare the model to be an in game for the SCP. But unfortunately I have to resolve some problems with those Polygon Point.
-
separate the wings a little bit, but not to much or else it'll look like the wings are opened. Basically kind of like the movie. See, what you have there is a single wing with two blasters on both sides.
-
Okay okay, i know what do you mean.
-
cool. if you need any advice on your model, just ask me. i got every little detail of a Star Wars ship right in my head.