Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: WMCoolmon on January 16, 2005, 05:12:22 pm

Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 16, 2005, 05:12:22 pm
WHY DOES THIS FREAKING BUILD DO THIS WITH BOBB'S HERCULES!?!?  :hopping:

http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/C01162005.zip

EDIT: LINK FIXED.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Taristin on January 16, 2005, 05:30:17 pm
WHY IS THIS FRAKKIN LINK BROKEN?!!?! :p
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: karajorma on January 16, 2005, 05:35:27 pm
Do what? Screenshots might help.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 16, 2005, 05:38:20 pm
WHY AM I TYPING LIKE THIS!!!?1  IS MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON STUCK on....oh.  It is.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 16, 2005, 05:40:19 pm
BECAUSE WINRAR WAS AN ASS!!!111 :rolleyes: (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/gallery/screen07.png) :hopping: (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/gallery/screen08.png) :mad: (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/gallery/screen09.png)

MODDERS THIS IS IN CVS TOO!!! :mad: (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/gallery/screen07.png)
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 16, 2005, 05:43:22 pm
*Mails WMCoolmon some chill pills*
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 16, 2005, 05:47:37 pm
*chills*
*Wonders if anyone will make the connection*
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Falcon on January 16, 2005, 05:54:34 pm
:wtf:

Ummmmm yeah whats your problem?
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Taristin on January 16, 2005, 07:03:25 pm
What is this "show ship" flag? :wtf:
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Bobboau on January 16, 2005, 08:09:05 pm
sowhatnow?:wtf:
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Axem on January 16, 2005, 08:13:06 pm
So what now indeed.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/phear.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/phear2.jpg)
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Taristin on January 16, 2005, 08:20:58 pm
camera view? :wtf:
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Axem on January 16, 2005, 08:22:47 pm
No, that's the default view.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Nuke on January 16, 2005, 10:42:43 pm
whoh, i think il implement cockpits now :D

now is that a seprate model, or just a ship with a modeled cockpit?
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Unknown Target on January 16, 2005, 10:56:49 pm
Wait a minute...get a coder in here! We may have stumbled across a way to do cockpits! :D
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: phreak on January 16, 2005, 11:04:57 pm
WMCOOLMON HATES US ALL TOO!!11!!!1

MY WORLD IS COLLAPSING!

seriously, this is awesome
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Bobboau on January 16, 2005, 11:08:01 pm
you have two coders in here, one of wich seems to be responcable for it. that cockpit model was not made for this so don't complain that it looks bad.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 16, 2005, 11:47:43 pm
A more complete description than from my first two posts: :p

"show ship" renders the player ship model even from first person view. It has a lot of limitations that rendering a special in-cockpit model wouldn't, but it also means that you can look around and you'll see parts of the player ship.

The build also includes the 2D code as a mission flag. It's not in FRED, so you'll have to add it manually. What that means is opening up notepad and adding 16384 to the ship flags; subtract to disable it. It's still buggy but it should be playable, I figure I'll fix the bugs on demand.

I was actually surprised how well the Herc model turned out. I was actually thinking you might've designed it with just this in mind...
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Anaz on January 17, 2005, 12:08:25 am
that's so awesome. That was one of my personal annoyances with the immersion factor was that you couldn't see your ship. Teh awesomeness :yes:
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Goober5000 on January 17, 2005, 01:25:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
*chills*
*Wonders if anyone will make the connection*
*makes the connection* :lol:

Good job. :yes: However I can't see any cockpit art on the screenshots you linked to... it's just black where the instrument panel should be.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Nuke on January 17, 2005, 01:47:37 am
is there any way to change the way the vew controls works, make it pan the view instead of toggle ing the different views. that way you could look around the cockpit. it would be like holding down the 0 key on the numpad.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 17, 2005, 04:31:32 am
Goob: If you could look down, you'd probably see the texmapped gauges. The eyepoint is right above Mr.Adam's head.

Nuke: Maybe. I tried implementing a top-down view, but when you press the assigned key nothing happens. :p Obviously I haven't quite got the hang of this keyboard thing.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Lynx on January 17, 2005, 07:42:18 am
Meh, I'd really like to have cockpits but I don't think that's the way. The Hercs cockpit looks good if you don't go too close. Integrating a high poly cockpit into the model will further strain the performance since it'd be on every model, not only the player model, which otherwise could be invested in more model detail. If it leads to separate models for cockpits, cool, but otherwise, I'm dubious on the benefit of this.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Flaser on January 17, 2005, 09:24:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lynx
Meh, I'd really like to have cockpits but I don't think that's the way. The Hercs cockpit looks good if you don't go too close. Integrating a high poly cockpit into the model will further strain the performance since it'd be on every model, not only the player model, which otherwise could be invested in more model detail. If it leads to separate models for cockpits, cool, but otherwise, I'm dubious on the benefit of this.


One magic word: LODs.

It can be setup so the high-poly cockpit is in a -1 or 0 Lod that is only loaded for the player ship and/or close-up (dist <= 4 meters).
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Tolwyn on January 17, 2005, 09:34:35 am
or you create two models, one for ai and one for player.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Bobboau on January 17, 2005, 11:08:11 am
this could be a good place to use that hanger bay code, so it only renders a high poly model when you are viewing from inside the cockpit.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Lynx on January 17, 2005, 11:49:59 am
Yeah, that'd help.
Title: Re: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 17, 2005, 06:38:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
WHY DOES THIS FREAKING BUILD DO THIS WITH BOBB'S HERCULES!?!?  :hopping:

http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/C01162005.zip

EDIT: LINK FIXED.


you are my God

(http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/lostsouls/yay.jpg)
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Goober5000 on January 17, 2005, 06:42:51 pm
Now that looks better.  :)
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Taristin on January 17, 2005, 09:20:59 pm
Damnit. Now I have to make my cocpits look better. :hopping:
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Singh on January 17, 2005, 10:19:30 pm
aldo: mind if I show that pic off elsewhere, like at spacebattles.com?

Absolutely fantastic WMCoolmon! This is taking FS where it's never been before! :D
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 18, 2005, 03:14:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
aldo: mind if I show that pic off elsewhere, like at spacebattles.com?

Absolutely fantastic WMCoolmon! This is taking FS where it's never been before! :D


fire away.

EDIT; I wonder, would it be possible to optionally map the joystick hat to the free look rather than the numpad?
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 18, 2005, 07:34:57 am
NB: the clipping / culling plane is a bit pernickity, unfortunately; especially for looking backwards etc.

On the plus side - you can set it up to see your legs!  Yay.
EDIT2;
Thsi is what i mean;  Front view (fixed)
(http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/lostsouls/fixed.jpg)

But, when you move the camera you start to get problems;
(http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/lostsouls/free1.jpg)

Also, if you look back you sometimes get nastiness (different ship this time);
(http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/lostsouls/rear_Selkie.jpg)
(likewise the sides)
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: gevatter Lars on January 18, 2005, 04:02:52 pm
Looks promessing...if we just could make it so that the gameinfos are displayed on the panels instead of just some graphics...
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 18, 2005, 06:20:37 pm
Does it help any to change the FOV? It looks to me like in that last picture, the virtual 'lens' of the camera might be larger than the cockpit.

Messing with clipping/culling is a little beyond me at this point...

As for gameinfos on the panels, that's going to take some sort of render_to_texture function, or creative placement of gauges on the HUD. (For the latter, you could move the shield indicators right now using hud_gauges.tbl)
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 19, 2005, 12:27:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
Damnit. Now I have to make my cocpits look better. :hopping:


Damnit, now I have to make cockpits. :blah:
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Nuke on January 19, 2005, 01:27:39 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar


Damnit, now I have to make cockpits. :blah:


me too :D
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 19, 2005, 03:16:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Does it help any to change the FOV? It looks to me like in that last picture, the virtual 'lens' of the camera might be larger than the cockpit.

 


Hmm.... I'll check, although I'd be worried if I had to change it significantly from the default (it's at the defo justnow) to get it to look right.
EDIT; nope.  Just seems to mean I have a more zoomed in initial view; clipping seems to cover the same extents as before.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: TrashMan on January 19, 2005, 05:33:04 am
WOW...I mean...just...WOW....
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 19, 2005, 12:34:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


Hmm.... I'll check, although I'd be worried if I had to change it significantly from the default (it's at the defo justnow) to get it to look right.
EDIT; nope.  Just seems to mean I have a more zoomed in initial view; clipping seems to cover the same extents as before.


NB: tried with fov 0.35 and 1.25.... no luck.  'tis a problem.....
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Roanoke on January 19, 2005, 01:21:22 pm
why would you want a big chunk of your ship blocking your FOV ?:doubt:
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Lynx on January 19, 2005, 01:22:52 pm
To increase the immersion, perhaps? You no longer are a disembodied eye flaoting in space but really sit in a space fighter with only a few centimeters of armor between you and death.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 19, 2005, 02:24:59 pm
This feature is err... problematic to say the very least.

If you put enough detail in the cockpit for a view like this, the game will degrade to unplayable degree.

A cockpit should ONLY be rendered for the player.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Lynx on January 19, 2005, 02:27:36 pm
Yeah. As bobbau said, his detail box comes into play here so it'll only displayed for the player. And a good looking cockpit requires about 700 -2000 polies, so that would hardly make the game unplayable in any way.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: MetalDestroyer on January 19, 2005, 05:18:03 pm
Great we have cockpit, but it's a little messy.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Lightspeed on January 19, 2005, 05:22:24 pm
And it's useless. You can't put gauges on it.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Nuke on January 19, 2005, 05:58:16 pm
cfs3 does it decently without too much framerate drop. perhaps have a system where you include two cockpit subobjects. one high detail for the player, and the other low detail designed to look good from the outside. it means more work for modders but would increase performance. no more trouble than creating lods anyway.

as for gauges is there any way to render a particular frame of an ani file at any given time. you could have a 10 position ani gauge assigned to say ship speed. then the game will render the frame thats closest to the actual value. so if you are at half speed it will render frame 5, full spead frame 10 and so on. of course only rendered in the player cockpit model.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 19, 2005, 06:25:25 pm
Nuke: probably. It'd require hardcoding a lot of it, but something like that could be toggled using a ship flag.

I think, though Bobb would probably know, that in order to really have hud gauges on a ship's textures we'd need to go to DirectX 9, which has a special RenderToTexture function.

Anyway, my guess on the clipping stuff then is that the clipping plane isn't being computed with enough accuracy close-up to render the polygons close-up. There was a similar problem in T2 if you got far away from water.

If I'm right, though, it'd probably involve some VERY low-level modifications to the rendering engine core.

Edit: Oh, and this might sound a little conceited :p but in-game cockpits do add to the feeling of the game. Flying Bobb's Hercules and being able to see the gun ports to the sides and look back and see the engines was pretty cool. Even Mechwarrior 2 had that, and it used a purely-software renderer built from scratch. (It was pre-Win95)
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: phatosealpha on January 19, 2005, 06:29:21 pm
Does this build work with the burn decals?  and if so, does a shot that hits your cockpit leave a visible scorch mark?
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Lynx on January 19, 2005, 06:32:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
And it's useless. You can't put gauges on it.


Most games with 3d cockpits don't have gauges mapped  on them.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 19, 2005, 06:32:50 pm
*Checks flags in the launcher*

Looks like the impact decals in the experimental options list is there, so probably.

I'm not sure if they'll be seen from inside the cockpit, though. I don't have any decal textures to check, and I'd have to dig up the how-to instructions, wherever they are.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 20, 2005, 02:44:48 am
It would only render decals facing out from the cockpit glass-surface anyways, I think; unless you make decals double sided.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Flaser on January 20, 2005, 04:30:10 am
Hmm...I had a silly idea - but how about using models as gagues? With the recent animation additions it could work to some degree - I think analogue gagues are the best for this sort of thing with the pointers moving around.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 20, 2005, 05:52:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
Hmm...I had a silly idea - but how about using models as gagues? With the recent animation additions it could work to some degree - I think analogue gagues are the best for this sort of thing with the pointers moving around.


Too complex, I think.  Also digital readouts look better.

Of course, I designed all my cockpits anticipating that the pilot would have an in-helmet HUD (i.e. the game one) and that the other stuff as-seen-in-cockpit-texture represented mostly redundant info.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Ransom on January 20, 2005, 05:59:27 am
Personally I think a cockpit is a waste of space unless it works something like X2's (basically, replacing the HUD).
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 20, 2005, 06:05:31 am
I don't...... :)
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Lynx on January 20, 2005, 06:26:31 am
I think the current HUD would need to get a bit more optimized for a cockpit. Some of the less important gauges should be merged and/or made smaller, and overall be more compact, since additionally to the space the gauges take up on the screen there's now a cockpit too.

Every space-sime I now with a cockpit has rather few gauges, and most of those are MFD's that serve multiple purposes. Just check out Wing commander, the X-Wing series, Independence War 1/2, even Freelancer, all those have a rather versatile and multifunctional HUD that takes far less screen space than the freespace one, so there might be a good reason why it's that way.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Nuke on January 20, 2005, 06:42:00 am
cfs3 virtual cocpits are the best but they use that dx9 render to texture feature for all the gauges in adition to model animations, like the stick, rudder pedals, throttle and all the other levvers knobs and switches and stuff. and if you want to you can look look at your wings and watch your control surfaces move or in the event of flak, check to see if your wings are still there. they are the best virtual cockpits ive seen to date.
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Flaser on January 20, 2005, 09:43:27 am
I'm still in love with the analogue gagues of the Su-27 in LOMAC - that stuff was obviously necesarry as well as usefull at the same time - and a lot clearer and to the point than the American F-15 :b
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Nico on January 20, 2005, 10:27:41 am
hey, that's cool. Somebody nice enough to try this with the eze or the perseus?
Title: WHY!?!?!?!?
Post by: Flaser on January 20, 2005, 05:31:33 pm
If we don't use shaders I don't see the reason why SCP couldn't move on to DX9 - though if it needs a DX9 card to use the new functions you mentioned (render to texture) than I see your point.