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Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: waldi on January 17, 2005, 04:48:58 pm

Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: waldi on January 17, 2005, 04:48:58 pm
When will the vorlons and shadows come in to play
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Kosh_Naranek on January 17, 2005, 07:18:48 pm
I want vorlons. I want Vorlons. :D
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Sigma957 on January 17, 2005, 07:57:41 pm
All in good time :lol:
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Roki on January 18, 2005, 12:46:41 am
Vorlons Evil, ISA Evil Shadows GOOD :) :)
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 18, 2005, 11:56:12 am
Can't wait for it. Those are the coolest imaginative races ever created. Would be awesome to fly a shadow/vorlon fighter, or fight against them. And just looking at their capital ships sends thrills through me.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 18, 2005, 12:00:17 pm
FirstOne fighters will not be pilotable... deliberately. :p
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 18, 2005, 12:14:54 pm
Blaah, you take away all the fun in life :P

Okay, the Vorlon fighters might be a wee bit too good, with shields and all, but the shadow fighters are rather weak, it seems to me. Would be kinda fun with a campaign where your a shadow fighter(litteraly, since theyre alive) following a Battlecrab, jumping in and generally making a mess out of the galaxy. The missions could prolly be designed like most other missions being made.
At least make them pilotable even if your not going to let the player control them in any missions. That way someone could at least make a shadow/vorlon camapaign.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 18, 2005, 12:32:58 pm
Ehm. Vorlon fighters do not have shields of any sort. Just bio-organic armor like Shadow fighters. A Vorlon fighter was swept by a Thunderbolt or a Sky Serpent in Into the Fire.

The shield effect you saw in that particular ep, was most likely a CGI glitch. Vorlons might be able to generate small energy fields to block incoming fire to some degree, but not anything like freespace fighters have.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 18, 2005, 12:40:20 pm
I think that the SCP boys should include support for self-repairing hulls.  I know it can be done by sexps, but that's just e cheap way of doing it.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 18, 2005, 12:42:08 pm
Yeah, it certainly would be a welcome addition.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 18, 2005, 12:51:42 pm
Hmm, that's right, one of those flying saucers does take out a couple of Vorlon fighters. However, those things are real killers, so it might have gotten through the shield very fast? Or it might not have a shield, as you say. Kinda hard to judge the Vorlon ships, since theyre rarely seen in action except in superior numbers, or messy fights. They do seem to be by far the best ships though, except the other First Ones motherships.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 18, 2005, 01:02:37 pm
This is my personal opinion about Vorlon and Shadow vessels I have based on what I have seen in the show and movies.

Vorlon ships are relatively slow and sluggish. Bio-organic armor seems to be able to withstand more damage than Shadow equivalent. Vorlon weapons also seem more powerful, but at the same time they have sort of unstable feeling in them. Shadow ships on the other hand are faster and more maneuverable than Vorlon ships.

Suits pretty well their tactics too. Vorlons are always either in direct defensive or direct offensive situation. While Shadows clearly favor hit and run tactics, they also have superior stealth and jump engines to make this tactic effective.

While a Vorlon dreadnought was seen to use some sort of shield in Into the Fire and a Shadow battlecrab was seen to emit some sort of energy field around itself before it was destroyed by a Narn G'Quan heavy cruiser, I don't think they can create freespace like shields. Only race known to have such shields is the Thirdspace race.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 18, 2005, 01:15:29 pm
What about "War Without End Pt.1", when the Whitestar is hit by fire from the Shadow fighters.  A type for forcefield could be seen projected out from the hull there.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 18, 2005, 01:18:23 pm
Similar effect was also seen used once by a Primus battlecruiser in season 1. And the Centauri most definitely do not possess shield technology.

I count them as CGI glitches because those were the only times such effects were seen. Even Whitestar did not have that kind of impact effect before or after that. Those shield effects are not the only CGI glitches. I think there was a full list somewhere but I've lost the link.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 18, 2005, 01:38:12 pm
It's seen clearly in Season 3 - Interludes and Examinations, that the bigger Vorlon ships have shields, like the Third Space aliens. You see the shadowship attacking the Vorlon cruiser, and the beam cant get through the shield. Then the next hit gets through the shield, but only scratch the vorlon armor.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 18, 2005, 01:41:03 pm
Seems like I mixed Into the Fire and Inteludes and Examinations.

I don't buy Vorlons having shields in any case. I believe it was a CGI glitch or something else than a shield like freespace or Thirdspace aliens use. Funnily this same discussion has been gone over many times, first in FirstOne.com boards, then Volition Watch boards and now here. ;) The conclusion has always been the same though.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: yohoob on January 18, 2005, 01:48:16 pm
In the commentary of a call to arms. straczynski says he does not wanted to avoid force fields on ships because he didnt like them. Thats why there is reflected armor on the exacalibur. The armor could have been a relfected peice on the vorlon ship? Juts a thought.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Roanoke on January 18, 2005, 02:22:07 pm
Any plans to include the other First Ones ?
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Cyber Phoenix on January 18, 2005, 03:04:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raapys
It's seen clearly in Season 3 - Interludes and Examinations, that the bigger Vorlon ships have shields, like the Third Space aliens. You see the shadowship attacking the Vorlon cruiser, and the beam cant get through the shield. Then the next hit gets through the shield, but only scratch the vorlon armor.


That wasn't a shield effect, if one looks carefully that effect was the shadow beam impacting against the energy of the vorlon beam, in conclusion they canceled each other out.
In regards to the shadow beam hitting the vorlon armor it didn't just scratch it, it went right trought and out the other side, it didn't cause more damage because shadow beams are slicers and just cuts their targets into pieces and don't vaporize them.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 18, 2005, 04:27:08 pm
Hmm, I see it's the charged beam the battlecrab hits,now that you mention it.
However, I looked carefully, many times, on the next shot, and you cant really see the beam penetrating the Vorlon ship. And when the cruiser fly's by, you cant see any damage on the other side of the Vorlon's claw that was hit, though it wouldn't be easy to spot anyhow.

Oh well, one learns something new every day, if one pay attention :P However, I still think the Vorlon ships are clearly superior to that of other races, and they did manage to beat back the third space aliens, even though some of their own was telepathically controlled by them.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: starbug on January 18, 2005, 04:36:30 pm
i thought that they barely managed to beat them back? speaking of the shadows will there be a way of getting the shadow phase in and out of hyperspace to work with the growing advancements in the SCP
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 18, 2005, 04:46:19 pm
"i thought that they barely managed to beat them back?"
Well, all that is really said about it is "We beat them back and disabled the gate". Then the rouge vorlons stole the gate and went into hyperspace.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 18, 2005, 10:51:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by starbug
i thought that they barely managed to beat them back? speaking of the shadows will there be a way of getting the shadow phase in and out of hyperspace to work with the growing advancements in the SCP

Probably, once cloaking is fully implimented.  Needs to be in D3D as well as OGL, and needs proper control.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 19, 2005, 01:46:22 am
By the way, do you want a full list of ships we have seen shields effects on?

- Primus
- Whitestar
- Dreadnought
- Battlecrab
- Aurora

Yes, the standard starfury is among those we have seen some kind of shield effect...
Not to mention that the effect was seen only once. Even on Whitestar, and we have seen a Whitestar taking hits more than once. :)
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: -Norbert- on January 19, 2005, 04:20:03 am
Quote
by Raapys
However, I looked carefully, many times, on the next shot, and you cant really see the beam penetrating the Vorlon ship. And when the cruiser fly's by, you cant see any damage on the other side of the Vorlon's claw that was hit, though it wouldn't be easy to spot anyhow.


After the beam hit you see damage to the vorlon ship.
And maybe you can't see it anymore after the battel is over, because the vorlon ships are organic and reparing damage even better then the Whitestars, which are actually seen regenerating behind either Marcus or Sherridan in one episode. It's one with a commentary of JMS, so it shouldn't be to hard to find if you have the DVDs.

Quote
by Roki Vorlons Evil, ISA Evil Shadows GOOD

The greates excitement is the thrill of ballte.
The greates joy is the ecstasy of victory.

Chaos is the proper state of being where all impule is freed to act.

Chaos through warfare, evolution through bloddshed, perfection through victory!

EVOLUTION WILL BE SERVED!
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 19, 2005, 06:43:21 am
"After the beam hit you see damage to the vorlon ship." Yes, you do see the ship get a minor damage, but you dont actually see the shadow beam penetrating the vorlon claw. Anyways, it's not a big deal :p

In which episode was a starfury with a shield effect seen though?

There's no reason not to divert all power away from the "Shield" in the game? Since there is no shield I mean :p Unless you've made it affect the armor somehow?
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 19, 2005, 07:57:47 am
Thirdspace.

TBP fighters do have shields, but they have absolutely no effect on weapons. They do protect against explosions and shockwaves. Should you divert all your power from shields, you will notice that you will suddenly get more damage when near explosions.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Turnsky on January 19, 2005, 08:42:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Thirdspace.

TBP fighters do have shields, but they have absolutely no effect on weapons. They do protect against explosions and shockwaves. Should you divert all your power from shields, you will notice that you will suddenly get more damage when near explosions.


that's a play-balance thing, right?..
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: IPAndrews on January 19, 2005, 10:52:17 am
Is Fury left it there, it's there for a reason. Trust me on this.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 19, 2005, 11:12:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by IPAndrews
Is Fury left it there, it's there for a reason. Trust me on this.

Good boy. Have a cookie.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: IPAndrews on January 19, 2005, 11:12:50 am
I'd prefer some cheerleaders.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 19, 2005, 11:15:30 am
Not that again. You know what happened last time.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Cyber Phoenix on January 19, 2005, 02:51:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raapys
"After the beam hit you see damage to the vorlon ship." Yes, you do see the ship get a minor damage, but you dont actually see the shadow beam penetrating the vorlon claw. Anyways, it's not a big deal :p


//www.babtech-onthe.net/vorlons/pylonhit2.jpg

Copy and paste(had http:

The shadow beam is clearly seen on the other side.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 19, 2005, 04:51:49 pm
Yes, on the picture I see that...Thats not visible on my episode though, I checked again when I saw your screenshot. Most strange. Could it be widescreen or something messing it up? You cant see below the Vorlon claw here, so it seems like the shadow beam miss when it starts shooting, then just scratch the Vorlonship.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Azrael15 on January 20, 2005, 05:49:22 am
Hmm, I recall Shadows/Vorlons supposed to be in 3.1. Might've been my imagination, anyways...

How will the Vorlon weapons be done? As in the energy joins up from the pylons/prongs/tentacles and fires bit?
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Raapys on January 20, 2005, 07:38:09 am
I wonder about that too. Would be great if you managed it just like in the series. I guess that would be more of a job for the SCP though, altering how the beam fires. Can't wait for the Vorlon&Shadow ships to be included.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: waldi on January 20, 2005, 09:55:33 am
me too thats why i started this post
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: -Norbert- on January 20, 2005, 02:33:36 pm
Yes, but it didn't go through the vorlon ship. It was kind of a grazing shot (not sure if thats the right translation.
Like you get a bullet shot at your face but it hits so that it only leaves a scratch on the cheek).
And I think I remember a tiny piece of the vorlon ships hull flying away.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 20, 2005, 03:17:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Roki
Vorlons Evil, ISA Evil Shadows GOOD :) :)


Screw all the aliens. Humans ownz j00 bi7chaz!!!1111oneoneoneseven
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 20, 2005, 06:06:07 pm
Terran Pride.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: mitac on January 20, 2005, 09:13:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Thirdspace.

TBP fighters do have shields, but they have absolutely no effect on weapons. They do protect against explosions and shockwaves. Should you divert all your power from shields, you will notice that you will suddenly get more damage when near explosions.


Uhm. Perhaps I should reconsider transferring all shield energy to the other subsystems. :rolleyes:
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Turnsky on January 20, 2005, 09:14:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mitac


Uhm. Perhaps I should reconsider transferring all shield energy to the other subsystems. :rolleyes:


it's for thos peeps who like to be up close and personal when a ship goes boom.
:p
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Slasher on January 21, 2005, 12:53:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mitac


Uhm. Perhaps I should reconsider transferring all shield energy to the other subsystems. :rolleyes:


Hehe, that's what I typically do.  Just don't cry when you finish all your objectives, destroy the last enemy fighter, and get blown up by the resulting explosion. ;)
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: -Norbert- on January 21, 2005, 03:32:46 pm
So far it always was enough for me to give the shields just one puch of the home key so to speak.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 24, 2005, 10:02:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky


it's for thos peeps who like to be up close and personal when a ship goes boom.
:p

:nod:

Even then it doesn't always protect you.

Alpha 1 was destroyed by Ja'Doc 1 exploding

I got real close to that one.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: -Norbert- on January 24, 2005, 12:47:56 pm
With up close they surely didn't mean be 10 cm away from an exploding Capital ship :p
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 25, 2005, 10:40:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
FirstOne fighters will not be pilotable... deliberately. :p


They don't even have pilots in the first place. They're robots controlled by First One capital ships.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Fury on January 25, 2005, 11:08:28 am
I agree otherwise but they're not robots but living beings just like the motherships. But you/we don't have canon information either way.
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Surachai on January 27, 2005, 05:24:23 am
Are there any models done yet of shadow or vorlon ships?
Can we see them?
How long until there in the game?
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: rynadrk on January 27, 2005, 10:05:17 am
Den5 has a ship pack that has shadows in it here (http://den5.hotbox.ru/ShipsPack_1.zip)  but they aren't official TPB ships (yet?).

You can check them out in Shadow Dancing here (http://b5.madaboutgames.com/46052.html) .
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: -Norbert- on January 27, 2005, 04:37:54 pm
Whats the status of the animated Textures.
In FSO 3.6.5 I saw pulsung red parts on shivan fighters and moving lights on the pegasus figher.
Could that technice be used for moving shadow and vorlon biohulls?
Title: Vorlons and shadows
Post by: Krusi on January 27, 2005, 05:16:00 pm
I hope so!