Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: TopAce on January 22, 2005, 04:28:26 pm
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Here is what I have submitted as a feedback at //www.imdb.com:
*May contain spoilers*
Reading some of the reviews, I could conclude that most of you(respect to the exceptions) are disenchanted about this movie. I can agree with some of the points, like a Predator teaming up with a Human, but that did not annoy me up as much as the fact I mention below:
This is where this becomes a spoiler: I do not understand and I do not even want to know why this movie degraded Predators so much. I can't believe that one Alien killed two Predators and the third(and the last one) gets 'facehuggered' a good ten minutes after the fight begins.
Talking about facehuggers, I also find it strange that Aliens evolve way too quickly. It must be a result of the Director's decision on how to make the movie more whirling. Aliens birth quicky, OK, but what about the 'fecundated' Predator? How come it survived for so long?
Also a note on Alien lifecycle: How is that possible that the Xenomorph births from a Dead body? I obviously mean the Italian guy(don't know the name) and the Predator.
I loved how the Predators looked like at any rate. The one last thing I did not like about Predators in this movie is their vision modes. Why did not they leave the old-style Predator mask sound? That was the best.
One other thing: I find the into part VERY long, it is even longer than the action part itself with the Credits.
To sum up a whole, I had really loved this movie despite all what I wrote.
I noticed that the old AvP review thread did not reveal much about the movie, and it was not discussed so deep. I supposed more of you had seen the movie since then, so post your opinion about it, even quoting and disagreeing with any of my points.
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Interesting reading - and while I don't know everything about the Alien/Pred universes I'd like to have a go nonetheless.
I agree entirely that the Pred/Human working together seemed.. unlikely. Granted she proved herself in battle but that doesn't mean that an alien species whos soul purpose appears to be the persuit of being the strongest hunter alive would stop and help her out (or indeed do anything more than walk away).
As for the Aliens, during the film we see a "flashback" to several predators literally mowing down thousands of them as they attempt to scale the pyramid. Why then do a handful pose such a great threat to them? Of course this is to enable there to be a film worth watching for the eye candy - but as far as story is concerned - it's doubtful that the fights would go on as long as they do.
Where Alien births are concerned - I don't think it matters if the host is alive when birth takes place - only that it is alive or "fresh" at the event of gestation. Given how adaptable Alien physiology seems to be I doubt that something like the death of the host body would prevent a healthy birth. Of course.. if the chest-burster or egg were to be damaged during the death then that's another matter.
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SPOILERS!!
I liked some bits of the film, but I found it a bit.... lacklustre overall, especially compared to the early films from both franchises. Alien, Aliens, and Predator were fantastic. I haven't seen Predator 2, but the 3rd and 4th Alien films were pretty good as well (though ruined by C20th Fox). AvP was simply too much of an action film for my liking. There was virtually no horror element, which is IMO the whole point of both "universes". The fight scenes were pretty good, though I agree with Topace in that the Predators seemed a bit useless for the most part (though that is perhaps because they were juveniles). I was very glad to see un-****ed-with aliens again, however - Alien: Resurrection changed far too much and spoiled things.
There were too many cliches and stupid Arnie-style one-liners - more evidence of studio tampering to dumb things down - and I thought the story, while a great idea, was badly let down by an awful script and so-so direction. The fact that things took a long time to get going, and then everyone died instantly was irritating too. It should have been dragged out - like in Alien, Aliens and Predator. As it is, there's very little tension, as the film just roars through the action(once it starts) and doesn't let up at all until the climactic fight sequence...
It's an OK film, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone (except AvP-fanboys) as a worthy successor to the series. Probably a 6/10 overall.
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It was too poofed out. Take offence to that expression if you wish, it's how I've chosen to describe it.
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
I agree entirely that the Pred/Human working together seemed.. unlikely. Granted she proved herself in battle but that doesn't mean that an alien species whos soul purpose appears to be the persuit of being the strongest hunter alive would stop and help her out (or indeed do anything more than walk away).
I disagree, in spite of the image we have of Predators being very much the Lone Hunter, they are a highly advanced race with interstellar travel. The "hero" Predator likely understood that he was infested, and that he would have to face the Queen eventually. Predators do have a highly advanced honor system and while killing Humans in a Hunt is okay, leaving them to die with no chance to fight back(especially after having proven themselves in battle) would seem to go against this honor code. This is reinforced by the scene where whatshername allows the predator to scar her face, thus adopting her into the "clan" and also at the end where the "Elder" gives her his staff as a way of honoring her for her valor is preventing the Queen from getting free.
As for the Aliens, during the film we see a "flashback" to several predators literally mowing down thousands of them as they attempt to scale the pyramid. Why then do a handful pose such a great threat to them? Of course this is to enable there to be a film worth watching for the eye candy - but as far as story is concerned - it's doubtful that the fights would go on as long as they do.
The entire premise is that the Predators use Aliens as a test of their skill as a Hunter and Combatant, and perhaps as a trial event to signify the arrival of juveniles into adulthood. The group that arrives at the same time as the Humans is, despite appearances, a single adult(the Hero) and 2 juveniles who have been well trained but lack any real experience. The flashback scene looked more like a culling/defense action to prevent the xenos from escaping into the wild.
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I'm guessing none of you are familiar with the 'drone from hell' phenomonah, visible in the Alien movies and pretty much every Aliens game ever made.
In alien, we see a drone from hell. It wipes out the entire crew of the Nostromo save Ripley and the cat, and manges to magically figure out not only that the narcissus was an escape pod, but that moving to it when the ship is about to nuke is a good idea.
In aliens, there are no drones from hell - they all just get slaughtered.
A3 features a drone from hell, wiping out nearly an entire prison colony , and continuing to try to kill people after being covered in molten lead.
A:R features a few normal drones who get killed in standard operation, and several drones from hell - as is evidenced by the fact that they wipe out an entire millitary base, and are only killed in the end when the ship crashes into earth.
AvP1 has thousands of aliens slaughtered wholesale, and one drone capable of getting all the way from an alien world to earth, slaughtering everything in it's wake.
AvP2, again, sees hundreds of aliens cut down. Yet a single drone is capable of killing battalions of soldiers, overrunning the POC by itself, killing at least 3 predators (actually maybe 4 or 5, been a while since I played the whole way through), and rescuing the abducted empress despite having to go through legions of synth troops with miniguns and 2 predators.
All things considered, a single drone killing multiple preds while thousands of other drones die without blinking is nothing new. It's standard issue for the series.
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The open space atop the ziggarut favours the Preds with their ranged weaponry. The tunnels shift the balance massively in favour of the bugs. Play some AvP multi and you'll see this principle demonstrated, right up until the point your head is severed from your shoulders :nod:
Also, the 'drone from hell theory' is part of the bugs' nature. It's an aspect of their hive mind. A swarm of bugs will sacrifice themselves to protect the hive. But a single, isolated bug IS the hive, and will thus protect itself. Similarly one drone within the hive acts on instinct as part of the system, with overall hive behaviour rating as pretty intelligent ("they cut the power!"). So an isolated specimen will behave intelligently rather than instinctivly as it is governed by the hive intellect. Ph34r.
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I'd take Plasma Caster, disc and spear against big whippy tail any day.
I frequently did in AvP2.
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I frequently owned players such as yourself, vyper. No offense.
When I first watched the movie, I was happy as could be. But not anymore. AVP was an ok movie for the action (there were only two fights in the whole movie though). However, plotholes, crappy characters, etc, really dumb down the movie once you think about it, leaving most feeling rather pissed off.
Paul Anderson pissed me off to no end with his scriptwriting. Behind the camera, I'll admit, he's got some talent, but never, ever let him near a script again.
I saw nothing wrong with the Alien killing both Predators. The first has his spinal column severed instantly from behind. The one with the Fancy mask puts up a Fight, but Hand to hand, I never figured a Predator would have much of a chance, so no surprise there either.
The scene atop the pyramid is what happens when one of those hunts goes FUBAR, Liberator. Badly FUBAR'ed.
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Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
I frequently owned players such as yourself, vyper. No offense.
Seeing as I never played online, none taken :ha:
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Aliens have been birthed from dead flesh before. Check the Directors Cut of Alien 3. It gestates inside a dead cow.
And let's not forget that the Xenos in the pyramid were far less 'diluted' than the ones in the other films. They're a much earlier form of Xeno that's been through less human hosts.
As for the progression of the Xenomorph's fighting abilities:
Alien: A single Xeno managed to wipe out a crew of scientists. Nothing special there and it's not much of a measure of anything, except the Xeno's ability to conduct guerilla warfare.
Aliens: A single infestation managed to evade capture and snatch enough people to spawn hundreds of Xenos. Those hundreds then got mown down by a Marine squad and if they hadn't made some early mistakes, the Marines could easily have cleared the entire area of Xenos.
Alien 3: A single non-human Xeno managed to snatch prisoners who were wandering around alone in the tunnels and catacombs of the prison facility. Nothing spectacular there.
Alien Ressurection: These Xenos don't even count because they were heavily blended with Ripley's DNA.
As for the Predators - they suck in confined spaces, which is where the Aliens excel. Predators are used to stalking their prey across vast areas, then picking them off one by one. But they couldn't do that with the Xenos because their evasive skills are on par with the Preds. Also, they're a ****load faster than and at least as strong as any Predator.
So in a confined space, like the Pyramid, the Aliens have clear tactical superiority.
But in an open area, say the top of the Pyramid, the Predators and their advanced weapons have the edge.
In short, the Predators are only ever good when they're hiding the shadows, stalking their prey from a distance. Whereas the Xenos are all about close-combat.
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all the fighting took place in such a short span of time and it was only rated PG wtf?
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Check again...the one I saw was rated R(or was it PG-13?).
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Hundreds of Xenos mowed down in Aliens? Methinks you doth vastly overestimate the success of the marines.
Nah, not even close. Even if you take the directors cut as gospel, and aggressively estimate the number of kills by the sentry guns, the marine's actual body count is quite low. At best, two dozen xenos died in the battle in the c-level, and that's probably quite a high estimate. The operations battle likely has no more then twenty kills tops, and again, most of that is aggressively estimating off screen kills. Ripley's journey to rescue newt features all of like three drones getting killed.
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*makes a note to count next time he watches aliens*
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Mmh, well, AvP visuals were great, but the rest...
An0n's right about the cow, but the "more earlier form of xenos" thing, bah, bull****, just trying to imagine things to explain. If they're earlier specimens, they should take longer to hatch, not shorter. Evolution, adaptation, you know?
I don't think the marines would have wiped out the entire area considering they lose one or more troopers each time they meet the aliens. EACH time. They were like screwed from the begining.
And as for the fight on the Ziggurat ( "build more ziggurat!" hehe ), well, the predators had their shoulderguns, and they make such a big deal about them in the movie, well, voila.
And the fact that one alien kills two predators? well, the first predator did nor could see it coming, and the second, well was h2h... and well I wanted him dead, so that's cool :p
For the rest... pah, no plot, completly messy " a la Anderson" fights, so bleh. Crappy movie.
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I read the first post skimmed the rest.
I didn't really care much about any of the stuff.
The movie entertained me during the course of it, I probably won't buy it on DVD, but again I don't care that much.
There was blood, there was death, there was scary parts, there was a show down.
Fun.
Not great but worth watching once. Worth a laugh.
I find no reason to nit pick a false universe which I'm not overly excited with.
With that, its my cue to leave.
:D
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The books were better. They had a similar setting to the games.
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I think the Predators were dumbed down for this movie to be honest. Predators used 'Hard Meat' (Aliens) as training for young predators in how to hunt. They actually had more respect for the Human 'Soft Meat', whom they considered far more dangerous in many respects.
The thing is that three Predators 'should' have hacked a Xeno to pieces without even breaking a sweat, and the face masks, I always thought, were part of their defence against facehuggers, if you look at the breathing valves on it, it means a Pred can breath with a hugger on, and that the hugger cannot penetrate the mask to impregnate the host.
I suppose the fact is that if they had not dumbed down predators and their fighting abilities, it would have been a very short movie.
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Somebody said the Predators were weak because the humans stole their Shoulder Plasma Casters.
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Why do people think predators are so tought? They're like humans, just bigger ( and therefore, stronger ). Remove all the toys of the pred, and he's no much better than a human. And that's exactly how it was in the movie, they didn't have their best toy, they died.
And I want to add that the aliens are overly dumbed down too. I stopped counting how many acid-blood death have been magically ignored in that movie.
Grug: There was nowhere near enough blood for a predator movie :p
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The thing is that Predators may not have had their favourite weapon, but that was a long-range weapon anyway, they used those battle claws things close up. I'm pretty sure it said in one of the books that Predators are a lot less susceptible to the 'ol Acid blood than humans as well.
Thing is, Predators are all trained in the art of combat, they have a Spartan society in that respect. 3 marines, even with only their secondary weapons, could, most likely, down a Xeno, and each Predator can be considered a highly-trained Marine.
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Ah, come on, the xenomorph blood can tear through a ship's hull, it downed a damn destroyer in A3 :p
How can some fleshy creature be "a lot less" susceptible than humans? If that's in one of the books, sorry to say, but that's superhero syndrom. In the movie, they use the claws, and the claws melt.
And if Preds are trained in the art of combat, aliens are born living weapons...
As for the shouldergun, I can assure you that I have no problem using it at close range in the game :p It's so powerful, shoots so fast... It's like ten times better than the ones in the two pred movies.
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LOL Well, I haven't seen the movie to be honest, but I played one of the games for a while :) Problem is, I play everything like Unreal Tournament, which doesn't work when you're a facehugger :p
I think it was to do with the armour or some kind of neutralising agent in their skin, similar to the venom proof properties of some lizards and frogs. Probably just writers crap.
Still musta been 3 pretty lame Predators, I'll have to watch the movie and see how it went, I suppose in confined spaces, it could happen, as long as the Alien could retreat, and pick them off one at a time.
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The point was - they were three lame Predators, operating in less-than-ideal circumstances.
The Preds probably have blades that can resist the acid, but being youngsters, the AvP Predators didn't pick the right metals and died because of it.
I mean, just look at the face-huggered one. What moron would take their mask off just to battle-mark their face when there's huggers and Xenos whizzing about?
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Well, the first one, at least, the kill can't be denied. The pred was busy figuring out how to gut that guy, he really didn't see anything coming. And, well, the blades didn't melt as fast as any other alloy in any Alien movies do, so I guess they ARE resistant to the acid, but when you dig it right into the acid, it just can't resist for long. It did manage to cut a piece of the tail away and that made the alien much less dangerous. The net resisted to the acid quite long too. The alien... captain? did what he could, imho, and put up a good fight, he would have won if he didn't wait for the net to melt way.
And yeah, the pred removing his helmet was dumb, but he also seemed to be the n00b of the team.
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Anyone know the release date on DVD in the U.K.?
BTW at the bottom of the Ocean there are going to be a lot of fishy aliens. The queen has proven she can survive with no oxygen in Aliens when she held onto the Sulaco(?)
What would an Alien Blue whle looks like. Especially if the Queen laid a queen egg! :shaking::nervous:
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What the hell are you smoking?
The Queen didn't hold onto the Sulaco. She dropped some eggs/huggers into the docking bay before Ripley spaced her. And the face-huggers started an electrical fire onboard, causing the Sulaco to fire the stasis-pods out into space.
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What I'm smoking is none of your business.
THe queen went held onto the ship when it was taking off from LV-426, then when it landed on the big spaceship the queen attacked Bishop.
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There's a difference between her holding her breath in a zero-pressure, thruster-heated cavity for all of 20 seconds and her being able to reproduce at the bottom of the ocean under dozens of atmospheres of pressure in the super-cold, super-dark waters.
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Yeah, but I think Aliens would be pretty adaptable, after all they don't know what sort of environment they will burst into. For example, what if some facehugged creature (an Alien creature, not the Alien) had been swimming deep underwater the Alien would be screwed.
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Well, aliens can survive a bath in fusion metal, so why not in very cold water? :p
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The immature reply to that would be the Alien cracked under all that water which was cold...
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what killed it wasn't the hot metal, tho, but the thermic choc :p
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If your going by the fan novels, you should definately stop. Movies>Novels. Novels aren't canon sources, considering they are all highly contradictory.
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canon?
"points at sig"
Canon is like interfamily sex, it prevents evolution :p
I might add that AvP being a crossover, nothing from it is canon if you think about it.
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canon
*targets the word and Charges his BFRed*
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Fine, if you hate the word so much:
The novels aren't Reliable or Truthful sources of information on the subject.