Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on January 26, 2005, 11:59:11 am
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http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050126_122958.html
This is why I don't bother with pirating Microsoft Software. (Beyond the fact that it is illegal.)
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:lol: :lol:
I don´t think their efforts are working. I´m living proof of that.
:p
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Well, this is a recent development.
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Like you won't be able to get the updates elsewhere :doubt:
Don't care, my copy is legit, not that I had much choice tho.
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I'm not sure that I fully understand.. If I want to update my Messenger and I have *cough* Windows, they'll notice it? :nervous:
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eh maybe, but as microsoft adapts so do the hackers and crackers. It is a giant game of cat and mouse.
The article is refering to updates the OS, IE, MP and additional microsoft "goodies." These will all now require a key code.
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Oh, yay. Another reason to start learning to make Linux run my software...
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There must be a hole in it. As corporation workstations needs to be updated too and the Windows in it sure isn't installed by the one who uses the workstation. Granted, most big(ger) coprorations run their own centralized server for updates though.
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I've acquired so many copies of Windows I don't know whether I'm running a legal version or otherwise... :nervous:
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The SP2 (Service Pack 2) was supposed to be hacker proof aswel. They made it so that only legit owners could get it and update their systems. And yet, look at what happened. Everybody has it!
I have it. They can´t stop people from getting them. For every security measure they come up with, there are thousands of people working to break it.
It´s an unwinnable war. If they want to stop people from getting pirate copies, they should start by releasing a product that doesn´t contain a million security holes in it. And in top of that, sell it for a small fortune...
If games came out fully compatible with Linux, i would change in a second. But alas most games only run in Windows and Mac.
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There's a free OS out there trying to be compatible with win32 apps, I just can't remember it's name.
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
The SP2 (Service Pack 2) was supposed to be hacker proof aswel. They made it so that only legit owners could get it and update their systems. And yet, look at what happened. Everybody has it!
I have it. They can´t stop people from getting them. For every security measure they come up with, there are thousands of people working to break it.
It´s an unwinnable war. If they want to stop people from getting pirate copies, they should start by releasing a product that doesn´t contain a million security holes in it. And in top of that, sell it for a small fortune...
If games came out fully compatible with Linux, i would change in a second. But alas most games only run in Windows and Mac.
Wrong. MS changed their policy with SP2 and allowed it to be installed even on pirated copies, with exception only the most widespread VLK, aka devil's 0wn.
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Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Wrong. MS changed their policy with SP2 and allowed it to be installed even on pirated copies, with exception only the most widespread VLK, aka devil's 0wn.
Nuh uh! SP2 comes with a set of blacklisted serials. If you happen to be using one of them, no SP2 for you!
I wouldn´t call that "allowing it to be installed on pirated systems", would you?
:o
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Countdown until new anti-piracy feature is cracked by a 17 year old Russian kid, thereby screwing Micorsoft yet again:
5..4..3..2..1 - Blast-off!
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My copy's legit, and I'm still running it right from the box. I don't trust M$ updates and the stuff that's in them, so I just firewall my comp and stay away from the bad web sites as much as I can :)
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Nuh uh! SP2 comes with a set of blacklisted serials. If you happen to be using one of them, no SP2 for you!
I wouldn´t call that "allowing it to be installed on pirated systems", would you?
:o
No, that was SP1. The same blacklist is in SP2 (due to the nature of SPs), but nothing has been added, otherwise.
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Originally posted by Scuddie
No, that was SP1. The same blacklist is in SP2 (due to the nature of SPs), but nothing has been added, otherwise.
The black lists were updated in SP2. I could install SP1 (right off the MS website, may i add), with no problems at all, with the serial i used. But that same serial, wich allowed me to ge SP1, got me blacklisted with SP2. I had to change my serial before i was allowed to install SP2.
So, it´s fair to say they updated the blaclists, and that throws the "MS-allowed-SP2-on-pirated-systems" theory right out the window.
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*reads article*
oh ****!
I seriously doubt this will go very far though. Time to start learning how to use linux!
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And this is why you always find alterate means of getting windows... For example, a corporate licence of Server 2003 Enterprise with a 25 user license... For $250 through a seminar sponsored through MS.
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Heh. When they start making decent software, I'll start paying for it...
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Ok, 1 good reason not to....
About £89 Good reasons to do so....
Gee... let me think.... ;)
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Well, when you can get a $4000 package for $250 legitimately, then why the hell not? :D
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
Heh. When they start making decent software, I'll start paying for it...
EXACTLY, YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH
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With exception to their econo-line products (XP home, Works, FrontPage Express, etc), what current software would be considered indecent?
Oh BTW matt, your caps key is on.
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Like we don't already have enough Zombied computers. No doubt security patches will also be included in this? :rolleyes:
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Probably, security patches will be included. As for me, I see the risk being to great to bother stealing it. It all comes down to risk are you willing to take on.
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I'm seriously contemplating getting a nice legitimate OEM copy of 2k for my next computer, as apparently the college I'm going to refuses to offer any tech support at all if you can't prove you own the software (read: CD key).
Also, according to The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20932), they're allowing you to download security fixes, but nothing else. Which leads to the obvious question: What else is there, other than service packs?
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The decision not to use Windows is a sane decision.
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Not saying that is not a good decision. But inorder to use most modern games and some software, you have to be running Windows.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
My copy's legit, and I'm still running it right from the box. I don't trust M$ updates and the stuff that's in them, so I just firewall my comp and stay away from the bad web sites as much as I can :)
Mmh, well my PC came with XP installed and patched, there's even a folder where all the patches are copied. Haven't tried to uninstal anything, as far as I know, it might be better or worse w/o, I have no idea what all those patches do, so...
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i have a legit copy of xp pro (that i paid for), however because i already activated it on another computer it is totally useless unless i use the activation hack. so instead i use a copy of windows 2000 that i made (thanks to clonecd) from a msdn disk (wich had pro, server, and advanced server on it), ya know one of those enterprise edititions for network wide installs. the way i see it i paid them and they screwed me out of my cash, therefore i will never buy a microsoft product again :D
as for the new strategy i think its fair. it however wont work, my philosophy is to use as little of windows as possible. seeing as hackers will target primarily microsoft products. set up a firewall and block any traffic to as many microsoft programs as possible. this is my security fix. use firefox instead of ie, winamp5 instead of wmp, and trillian instead of messanger. theres a free and often superior alternative to everything microsoft offers.
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Clave: The decision to use windows is also a sane decision.
Nuke: Did you even try to activate the XP pro install on the new machine before you decided it wont work? I can almost guarantee that you'd have no problem doing it. It is only in certain circumstances where a re-activation would not work. i.e. If you attempt to activate the serial a certain number of times in one year (Six, I believe). And if it fails, a message screen should appear where it tells you to call MS and sort it out. They would certainly not be stupid enough to only allow a serial on only one hardware configuration ever. To do so would be suicide, and they know it.
Also, there are tradeoffs as to when you use alternate means of applications. Firefox is safer, but it is also inefficient, and it isnt built into the OS. WMP is pure garbage, so I have to give that one to you. But you failed in choosing WinAMP. Use VLC Media Player, instead (if you have enough power to run it, that is). MSN Messenger service sucks. Use aim, or preferably, teamspeak ;).
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Thing is, Microsoft will simply find that their servers go dead, as people either decide not to upgrade, or are too nervous about giving their details to Microsoft to click yes to transmitting info about their computer every single time they want to update. It'll probably increase problems for everyone to be honest.
That said, what'll really cripple pirate OS system is if this includes DirectX ;)
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If you can afford a $2000 computer, why the hell can't you spend another $150? I don't give a flying **** about games or other software, but the OS is just as important as the video card.
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I think it's a six month period between easy, automated activations (if it's less than six months between installs, you have to deal with MS tech support). However, that's annoying, hence my decision to use MS products with 2000 or less after their name from now on. And instead of WMP, I still recommend the iTunes/Media Player Classic combo....
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To lure users into the initiative, the company will offer free downloads of Photo Story 3, Winter Fun Pack 2004 and rebates for MSN Games, Windows SharePoint, List Builder and Outlook Live...
...all of which will themselves be cracked and pirated within a week of being released.
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winamp has a better media library imho. trillian is good if you want to be on all messanger services without having to run multiple im apps. im just guessing ith the xp install, its an oem version and i heard of people not being able to reactivate oem versions. my comp needs a fresh os install but im too lasy to do one. when i finly git totally pissed at the state of windows i think il try to reactivate.
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I have an OEM copy of XP Pro. The only time they wouldn't be able to activate it is if they had to reinstall only a short time after they last activated it (I'm not sure how long before it gets reset). When that happens, all they have to do is call up MS and *****. I've activated it many times.
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Originally posted by Scuddie
With exception to their econo-line products (XP home, Works, FrontPage Express, etc), what current software would be considered indecent?
Oh BTW matt, your caps key is on.
Um, practically everything they've done. There's still code in XP from 15 years ago, for crying out loud. They don't even know what half of it does! When they stop making horrible, inefficient bloatware, I'll be willing to shell out for it.
Also, I'm not happy with the whole activation and spyware thing they've got going on. Why the hell should they be allowed to know what I do with my computer?
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Simply, it is thier operating system and their intellectual property.
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Thing is, it's not the Activation stuff that annoys me, it's the fact when you upgrade your computer, you have to transmit that information to Microsoft at one point or another. I feel like I'm doing their market research for free.
The other thing is the usability of the code. Which is, as has been pointed out, pretty Archaic. It seriously needs re-writing from the bottom up, however, a certain Smart person also produces software which is crap. I still wouldn't condone downloading pirate copies of his games.
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Good reason to get rid of Window$ and start learning how to use Linux. The fact that windows is a steaming pile of **** helps too. :D
I use a legit copy but just because it came bundled with my computer.
Good thing I like to play old games more than the modern ones. They probably will run nicely in linux.
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Flipside, it depends on the sort of upgrade. Windows could really care less about your video card, or if you add an extra hard drive or two. The only time I've been forced to notify MS was when I replaced my MSI KT3 Ultra 2 with a Soltek nF2 board, and when I replaced the Soltek with an Asus A7N8X, due to the Soltek lacking the holes to mount a Zalman CNPS-7000.
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All valid points. However, there are tons of things that windows can do that linux can not (easily, that is). For example, if you have a mystery piece of hardware, and you cant even find the FCC code. What do you do? If running Windows XP Pro/2003, pop it into your box, watch Windows detect the unknown hardware, then run Windows Update and see what it comes up with. If running Linux, good luck.
Also, Linux doesnt have unified libraries like windows has. Want to install Wine on a standard install of Mandrake? Sure. All you have to do, is verify that you have the required version of (insert lib here). Neither an earlier, nor later version will do. Then, make sure you have the (insert pack here) compiled specificly for your build of Mandrake. If you install it for Redhat of the same revision, dont come crying to me when your system wont start the next time you boot. Then, grab the completely unknown library that lies in the armpit of the internet, and hope it's still there. Finally, rebuild the kernel with an unconventional method of doing so, and only on the second Tuesday of each month. If all is done successfully, you shouldnt have many problems running the Wine installer.
Granted, the second one is a bit exagerated, but it pretty much sums up the experiences I had with linux a year ago. I dont know if its still that way, but it has certainly made me shy away from it since then. When things start becoming more standardised, I will consider trying Linux again.
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there are 3 reasons i dont use linux: 3dsmax, truspace, and photoshop :D
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Heh, to be honest, I don't think Microsoft are half as concerned about the contents of your hard-drive as people think, there is a high level of paranoia in that department anyway.
I wish there were a way to run your Internet connection through Linux and keep Windows for everything else, the only way to do that is to run a seperate server computer, and I don't have room for a 3rd :(
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the further i get into computer science, the more i hate software piracy
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Originally posted by Scuddie
All valid points. However, there are tons of things that windows can do that linux can not (easily, that is). For example, if you have a mystery piece of hardware, and you cant even find the FCC code. What do you do? If running Windows XP Pro/2003, pop it into your box, watch Windows detect the unknown hardware, then run Windows Update and see what it comes up with. If running Linux, good luck.
[color=66ff00]Linux does have problems in this regard but a large part of that is the fabricators of the hardware are unwilling to cater to linux. Texas instruments, which makes a lot of chipsets flat out refuse to cater to linux despite it's growing userbase and it's not a isolated example. ATi are in this boat as well IIRC.[/color]
Also, Linux doesnt have unified libraries like windows has. Want to install Wine on a standard install of Mandrake? Sure. All you have to do, is verify that you have the required version of (insert lib here). Neither an earlier, nor later version will do. Then, make sure you have the (insert pack here) compiled specificly for your build of Mandrake. If you install it for Redhat of the same revision, dont come crying to me when your system wont start the next time you boot. Then, grab the completely unknown library that lies in the armpit of the internet, and hope it's still there. Finally, rebuild the kernel with an unconventional method of doing so, and only on the second Tuesday of each month. If all is done successfully, you shouldnt have many problems running the Wine installer.
[color=66ff00]Gentoo and portage are the answer, it's even possible to install portage into another distro of your choice and this immediately solves all your dependancy problems. Debian has apt-get too and it's fairly well liked.[/color]
Granted, the second one is a bit exagerated, but it pretty much sums up the experiences I had with linux a year ago.
[color=66ff00]Wait a bit, Gentoo will soon be released with a new liveCD easier installation method. It sounds like you tried Linux and were so put off by your negative experience that you've got a vehement dislike for it.[/color]
I dont know if its still that way, but it has certainly made me shy away from it since then. When things start becoming more standardised, I will consider trying Linux again.
[color=66ff00]the thing about linux is you get out of it what you put into it, sounds like a cop out answer but consider this; I can choose any wordprocessor I like (even MS products) under linux, I never have to install even a part of a software package that I don't like and most importantly nothing is built into the OS unless you choose it. Having something built into the OS is not only restrictive but undesirable, it cannot be unloaded as easily if it goes belly up and it can't be swapped for an alternative, you simply have to keep it and not use it.
Too many people are hung up on the argument that if linux is great then windows suck or if windows is great then linux sucks. I have uses for both, windows does games and linux does everything else for me. I'd like linux to be able to do everything simply on the want to be able to tweak and fiddle with it (something I like to do and another bonus of linux :) ).
I guess that Linux requires a certain 'hands-on' mindset whereas windows is for people who don't mind being told how to do something provided it's easy.[/color]
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If running Windows XP Pro/2003, pop it into your box, watch Windows detect the unknown hardware, then run Windows Update and see what it comes up with.
I've never had this work. In fact, in the software detection department, Linux beats the crap out of Windows as far as I'm concerned. Change of hardware? No problem. Just make sure support is compiled into your kernel. Much as I ***** about Gentoo's install procedure, it is incredibly easy to optimize your kernel so that ONLY what you want is installed, or everything you could possibly want is installed (But loaded into modules, so the only slowdown is on startup).
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i like linux and i would use it, but windows emulation does not give you the same performance, especially with games ansd high-end graphics applications, as running it in windows would. if i had a second computer id be running linux on it.
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It isn't all that hard to dual-boot you know...perfectly safe, I've done it with Yoper/W2k and Yoper/WXP using LILO (Piece o' cake, it adds the Windows entry for you I believe) and Gentoo/W2k using GRUB.
I think you might be able to use a FAT32 partition as your home directory, and keep your stuff in a folder with the same name as your Linux username. Thus, all you need is ~5-10 GB for Linux apps.
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indeed im just worried about what the linux installer is going to do to my other partitions. that and i only got 4 gigs of unallocated space.
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That's not very much. You should always aim to leave about a quarter of your drive(s) free. Things slow down and get inefficient when a drive gets near to capacity - it's time to go shopping!
I have 75GB free on Drive A, and 100GB free on Drive B, and no Drive C.... :nervous:
Is NTFS not better than FAT32 btw?
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Well... Lets just say that if I was forced to run FAT32 instead of NTFS, I'd be terrified beyond the scope for rational thought. Anyway, I sincerely wish linux would be able to tap into an NTFS device, instead of only relying on FAT/FAT32 for common read/write access.
BTW, is linux now using PC DOS conventions with drive lettering? Or are you just too lazy to say HDA0 and HDB0?
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Originally posted by Clave
That's not very much. You should always aim to leave about a quarter of your drive(s) free. Things slow down and get inefficient when a drive gets near to capacity - it's time to go shopping!
I have 75GB free on Drive A, and 100GB free on Drive B, and no Drive C.... :nervous:
Is NTFS not better than FAT32 btw?
4gb is one quarter of that particular drive :D well not quite, more like a fifth. anyway a new drive is low on my list of wanted upgrades (beneath new mobo, more and/or faster ram, and a video card that doesnt suck). im out of eide ports and i have no sata aprts. i do have a scsi controler but scsi drives cost a fortune. though if i found a cheap one id buy it in a sec. i could get an external usb 2.0 drive, but my onbord controlers are always on the fritz.
iirc from my linux class, the installer will create int own partitions using linux's own file system (extsomething), aslo it can use ntfs partitions in read only mode. i was using mandrake 8 in that class so there may be one out there with better ntfs support.
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There are two types of Linux file support, the default kernel and captive-ntfs. The first does read-only and writes to files as long as the file size doesn't change. Captive-ntfs does full read/write, but you have to get DLLs from Windows properly installed.
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Thing is for me, I use my second computer as a render-server and for the Internet connection. Since the Rendering software is Lightwave, I can't run it under Linux, and since I have a DSL connection, dual-boot isn't an option either :(