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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jetmech Jr. on January 26, 2005, 03:17:32 pm

Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on January 26, 2005, 03:17:32 pm
Good News, IMO (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-01-26T182937Z_01_L26676747_RTRIDST_0_INTERNATIONAL-MIDEAST-DC.XML)
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gai Daigoji on January 26, 2005, 03:21:11 pm
That is good news. But, not being offensive to anyone, why do I get the feeling something will happen that will ruin all these talks as it has done so many times in the past?
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Ghostavo on January 26, 2005, 03:23:26 pm
Because history rhymes from time to time.

Don't get me wrong, this is good, but I hope it stays that way.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gai Daigoji on January 26, 2005, 03:24:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
Because history rhymes from time to time.

Don't get me wrong, this is good, but I hope it stays that way.


Agreed. We can only hope. :)
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: vyper on January 26, 2005, 03:29:32 pm
In that case you better hope the leaders on both sides believe peace is in their best interests.

History would suggest you don't put much money on it.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Flipside on January 26, 2005, 04:08:17 pm
But we may benefit from the fact of America's current political situation leaves them where it is in their benefit to see this resolved. Possibly with a bit of political weight and the odd bit of foreign aid, the two can at least be convinced to start fixing the problem.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Corsair on January 26, 2005, 04:18:23 pm
*knocks on wood*
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 26, 2005, 04:44:46 pm
I want to hear the opinion of our resident Israeli on this. Actually, I'm surprised Sandwich hasn't posted here already....
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Sandwich on January 26, 2005, 04:54:07 pm
Yes, it certainly is good news. The papers today were all reporting that Sharon has decided to repond to quiet with quiet (re: the targeted killings).

And Sderot residents had their first Katyusha-free Sabbath this past week in an undefined period of time that I missed hearing what it was, but apparently it was newsworthy. :)
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gank on January 26, 2005, 06:00:40 pm
Quassams Sandy, Hez'bollah fire Katyushas (actually Grads) occasionaly into northern Israel, Hamas/Fatah fire Quassams into Sderot. Difference is ones a 24 tube mlrs and ones a homemade rocket. If Sderot had been under bombardment from "katyushas" for any significent length of time there woulnd be a Sderot.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Sandwich on January 27, 2005, 05:46:04 pm
Oops, you're totally right, my bad. That's what I get for posting while under the influence of exhaustion at 1am. :p
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Rictor on January 27, 2005, 05:51:24 pm
...how the hell do you know all this?
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gank on January 27, 2005, 05:52:55 pm
Nae worrys, easy mistake to make.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Sandwich on January 27, 2005, 05:55:00 pm
I'm not sure I want to know.... :nervous:
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gank on January 27, 2005, 06:08:49 pm
umm, I read the news.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: IceFire on January 27, 2005, 06:42:09 pm
Katyshkas are Russian built WWII era rocket artillery systems yes?  Can be mounted on tucks and the like?

I've seen them in IL-2 Sturmovik.  They make quite a fireshow in the game...
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Rictor on January 27, 2005, 11:02:14 pm
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/532311.html
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Splinter on January 28, 2005, 03:45:01 am
What kind of idiot runs through an off limits area towards the entrance of an army base packed with troopers and doesn’t even stop at warning shots!?! Maybe the same idiot whose family was being threatened by terrorists if he didn't.

I'm not saying that’s what happened but unless he was insane there had to be some pretty strong motivation to get him to give up his life... It wasn’t as if he was going to hurt anyone without a weapon and no bomb on him... :doubt:

What a waste of life.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gank on January 28, 2005, 11:49:00 am
Far more likely there were no warning shots.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Splinter on January 28, 2005, 12:42:32 pm
Quote
The Palestinian, who was apparently unarmed, ran toward the entrance of an IDF base near Netzarim junction and did not stop when troops fired warning shots,


Oh! I forgot they are t3h 3v1l J3333WWWZZZZZ!!! 0MG1!1!!11!!!!one!!1!!1 of course they wouldn’t give warning shots they would just shoot cause its fun to spill someone else’s blood and it’s a national sport here right? :yes:

Now that you mentioned it; I haven’t filled out my quota for this week of dead moozlims! I’ll be right back. :rolleyes:
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Styxx on January 28, 2005, 12:50:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Splinter
Now that you mentioned it; I haven’t filled out my quota for this week of dead moozlims! I’ll be right back. :rolleyes:


Take pictures. :p
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Rictor on January 28, 2005, 04:40:05 pm
Splinter, how could anyone possibly benefit from running into a camp full of soldiers, unarmed. If it was Hamas or other Very Evil People, he would at last have had a bomb on him. What was he he going to do, karate kick everyone to death?

I don't know about you, but personally Gank's theory seems more plausible. This is relying on the fact that the man was unarmed, not really the best way to be if you're seeking to kill a large group of well armed enemies.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Sandwich on January 28, 2005, 05:19:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Gank
Far more likely there were no warning shots.


:wtf: There are always warning shots unless a sudden situation of clear and present life-threatening danger pops up. Heck, even getting to the stage of warning shots means that there were multiple calls to the person to stop, both in Arabic and Hebrew. Plus, warning shots are first fired at a 60 degree angle into the air, then at the ground in the person's general vicinity, then at the person from the knees down.

And let's not forget that Ha'aretz is as left-wing as you can get, FFS. And you bloody well know that, too. :doubt:
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Ace on January 28, 2005, 05:55:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
...both in Arabic and Hebrew.


What if the guy only spoke English? :p
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on January 28, 2005, 05:54:46 pm
Just ignore that comment guys. I think it was just an attempt to get a rise out of you two.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Flipside on January 28, 2005, 05:57:38 pm
An unarmed man, running toward a group of armed Israelis....

I'd personally be inclined to stop thinking about what he hoped to gain by running towards them, and start wondering who could gain from the media attention of an unarmed Palestinian being gunned down by Israelis, in this particular case.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Splinter on January 28, 2005, 06:42:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ace


What if the guy only spoke English? :p


:lol:

Well you see bullets hitting hte gournd in front of you are a rather universal language of sorts. :p

and might I just add :yes: :yes: to flipsides post.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Rictor on January 28, 2005, 07:53:24 pm
I don't think Ha'aretz is particularly left-wing...Not even specifically related to this issue, but to me they are firmly pro-Israeli (if thats what's classified as right-wing), though they do occasionally publish differing viewpoints, which I greatly appreciate. (I'm speaking only of their web content here). I guess you'de know better than I do, but judging from the style and content of their regular news reporting, I wouldn't say they are particularly pro-Palestinian or overly critical of Sharon, the Government and Everything, at least compared to the international standard.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Sandwich on January 29, 2005, 04:31:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I don't think Ha'aretz is particularly left-wing...Not even specifically related to this issue, but to me they are firmly pro-Israeli (if thats what's classified as right-wing), though they do occasionally publish differing viewpoints, which I greatly appreciate. (I'm speaking only of their web content here). I guess you'de know better than I do, but judging from the style and content of their regular news reporting, I wouldn't say they are particularly pro-Palestinian or overly critical of Sharon, the Government and Everything, at least compared to the international standard.


Touche. Although Ha'Artez in print is firmly left-wing; I've discovered that Ha'Aretz web tends to be a bit more balanced.

Oh, and by the way, the report said that the man appeared to be unarmed, but as well all know, explosive belts aren't particularly obvious looking. SOP has IDF soldiers telling the Palestinian men to lift up their jackets away from their bodies to ensure they aren't wearing any explosives; if the man was running towards the soldiers instead of stopping and lifting up his jacket, I bloody well would have shot him dead, too.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gank on January 29, 2005, 07:52:08 am
What I was saying was it was more likely that somebody skipped the warning shots than terrorists held a mans family hostage and made him run unarmed towards a Israeli army base for no ****ing reason. You can call me an evil jew hater for suggesting it, but it makes more sence. Its not like its never happened before.

Flipside, your theory might make sense, except no one really gives two ****s if unarmed palestinians are shot down. Been happening for years.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: vyper on January 29, 2005, 11:42:13 am
They care when all the usual peace overtones are being made tho... it gives people something to moan about.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Flipside on January 29, 2005, 12:01:54 pm
Thing is, as the title of the thread suggests, this is an unusual and somewhat delicate stage. Everybody is looking for bargaining chips.

Possibly the groups most worried at this time are the 'Militant' Palestinian groups. They know that Israel will want to land on them the hardest.

I'm not saying this is what happened but it seems to me that, right now in particular, that any World attention on occurences such as this regardless of how it happened, buys these groups a little more sympathy vote.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gank on January 29, 2005, 12:30:55 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4218313.stm
Fourth dead in a week, how did the others die? What that, you dont know? so much for the they're looking for sympathy card.

Flipside, all attention is turned on Iraqs elections at the minute, stuff like this barely makes the news.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Flipside on January 29, 2005, 12:40:03 pm
It's a pity, but it WILL happen, there are those on both sides who have known nothing else and are scared of what the change might bring if Peace broke out...

Theres very little details on that shooting, and I'm not trying to make excuses for the people that pull the trigger, or the policies of their governments, but I heard a beautiful description of America's poition in Iraq as 'The Sherrif of Nottingham to Bin Laden's Robin Hood'. It is easy to fall into that trap, and not just in Iraq.

For now, I'll keep hoping that saner minds than these will prevail in the talks.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Gank on January 29, 2005, 05:31:20 pm
Ya well I'll have the shotgun ready to collect the aerial sausage and rashers which will accompany the success of these talks.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Sandwich on January 30, 2005, 12:49:15 am
Well, I just woke up today to read an SMS newsflash that Abu Mazen has gotten ceasefire agreements from all the terrorist factions. And yesterday Israel declared it would not initiate any incursions into Gaza, Judea, or Samaria. Sounds great. :) I just hope and pray that both sides can manage to keep to the agreement while the politicians hammer something out.

Unfortunately, I am reminded of the 76th Ferengi Law of Aquisition (http://www.ditl.org/hedrules.php):
[q]"Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies!"[/q] :doubt:
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Genryu on January 30, 2005, 04:30:33 am
And since the palestinian can't control each and every of the individuals in these factions, the first time a nutjob goes and kills himself with a few Israelis on the side, Sharon will go back to targeted executions, and the terrorist group will go back to their usual activity. Wanna bet that this is how it will end ? After all, this is more or lesss the same thing that happened each and every other time. That is, both side being assholish.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Sandwich on January 31, 2005, 01:07:38 am
Of course, that's how it's going to end, but I'm still surprised at the outward cooperation Abu-Mazen is getting.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Genryu on January 31, 2005, 03:04:51 am
What's bugging me is that even Arafat had managed to do something during the years of Itzhak Rabin. But, and I don't think you can say it isn't, it's mostly Sharon who made him a political paria, both internally and externally. What I'm afraid of, is that Sharon will pull the same with Abu-Mazen, and then definitely cut all link with the palestinian authority in general.
And yes, I don't like Sharon, the same way I don't like Bush. Doesn't mean that the population is as assholish as its leader.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Sandwich on January 31, 2005, 10:47:47 am
One must take into consideration that during the years of Rabin, there wasn't the intensity of conflict that there is and has been for the past 4.5 years.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: vyper on January 31, 2005, 11:52:25 am
Mainly because Rabin wasn't so bloody determined to blow stuff up.
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Flipside on January 31, 2005, 11:59:50 am
Either way, I wonder what will happen next if/when this all goes wrong. If there is a 'cease fire' and it all comes to naught, will we persevere, or simply allow it to collapse back into it's normal state?
Title: Israel/Palestine Diplomacy revived...
Post by: Genryu on January 31, 2005, 12:03:16 pm
As vyper said, Rabin wasn't the warmonger that Sharon is.