Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: TrashMan on January 27, 2005, 05:16:54 pm
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Behold!
(http://img153.exs.cx/img153/1816/LightbringerN1.jpg)
(http://img153.exs.cx/img153/3109/LibhtbringerN2.jpg)
(http://img153.exs.cx/img153/8043/lightbringerN3.jpg)
Now, I have to do a bit more testing to see if everything is working OK, and hten I'll upload it.
And yes..that Vasudan destroyer I was working on. At first I started it as a Vasudan-Shivan hybrid (I can still go there..I imagines it something like a typhoon with a ending of a Demon), but then I just went for a Typhon-based look:
(http://img153.exs.cx/img153/1673/VasDestroy1.jpg)
(http://img153.exs.cx/img153/175/VasDestroy2.jpg)
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The bomber isn't bad. I don't like the style, but the execution is fine. I still think all the rows of lights look like observation ports on a much larger capship, but it's not as noticable in-game as it was on the original model. You need to narrow down the beam it's firing though, because the beam is clipping outside of the glow.
The destroyer: now that actually does look somewhat (old-style) Vasudan. It looks a lot like the Typhon, but at least it does look like an existing style. I don't see how you could have incorporated Demon into that had you tried though. It's still lacking much in the way of vertical variety, but the shape is non-uniform enough that I don't see it as nearly as much of a problem as on some of your other models. It needs more polygons in some of the shaping geometry, and I feel like the arms could benefit from some slimming, but the execution isn't bad. It'll be interesting to see how you go about texturing it.
What it does need is some feature to make it look less like an existing ship. Unless your goal is to build something like a heavy variant, what you've got right now looks like an underdetailed Typhon with a little more length around the fighterbay.
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The destroyer looks waaaay too much like the Typhon.
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I actually just pulled up the model. The only way you'd ever be able to use that in Freespace is to call it a heavy Typhon, because otherwise it looks almost identical. Even the way the engines connect, and the step under the tail, are almost carbon-copied from the typhon.
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I like the bomber, but the base of the beam and the beam being different colors looks awful screwy...
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I'm still not done with the destroyer, but yes.. I was planing of making it look a lot like the Typhon.
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there are many subtile diferrences between the two tough.
Yeah, I noticedthat beam error too..
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If by subtile differences you mean the zig-zag on the back of the engine blocks, the ridge around the command tower, and the thing in the middle of the pinchers on the front, or perhaps the lack of the detailing spikes from the Typhon, then yes. There are subtile differences. If not, then the only thing I can see is the added length which I can't verify as intentional, beyond which the only thing that remains is a mediocre copy of the Typhon, nose to tail. The polygon flow isn't even as good, as you've used probably twice the polies for the hull proper, with the result of more odd angles and showing polygons than were present on the original. While I have no qualms with using the Typhon style, please find some way to make the differences more pronounced.
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There are far more subtile differences than that actually... I compared it to an Typhon cob.
The original typhon hull has around 860 polys compared to my model (1186).
Oh..I'm still not done and there is no smoothing on that pic...
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It's a chubby Typhon!
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Trashman, please understand that I know the difference between something that isn't smoothed and something that is. I also looked at the Typhon mesh, and it makes MUCH more efficient use of the polygons that it has than your mesh. The typhon's 860 polys look a lot more detailed without textures than this hull. So something's wrong. Admittedly, I see maybe two dozen detailing polys that are just fine, I just don't know where the rest could have gone. Otherwise, all I see is a much less efficient polygon use on a ship exactly like the typhon, and as far as anyone else is concerned a slightly different wireframe is not enough to justify a new ship. "Subtile differences" have to be something that stand out when flipping from one window to another comparing meshes, which right now limits those differences to the absolutely trivial things I pointed out earlier. If you'd elaborate on what else you've changed, it'll help your case out considerably.
However, what I am critiquing is not the number of polys or even the shape, other than saying it looks exactly like the Typhon. What I'm pointing out is that where the Typhon, even without maps, looks like a ship, what you have posted just looks like a collection of polygons trying to be a typhon. There are some distinct ship-like qualities there, but there are parts (particularly the underside, and to a lesser extent everywhere else) that will look like large, inappropriate polygons no matter how you smooth them. What's worse, the level of detail on the typhon, which as you pointed out yourself already has over 300 fewer polygon, is much higher. You've said that you aren't finished with it and I believe you. I'm just trying offer advice before you get to the texturing phase and decide that it looks "good enough" for you. Change something major, or all you'll get is "it's a typhon".
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For the Typhon-ish one, be sure to put a big turret between the forward pincers, and possibly on the tip of each arm. I also agree that the arms could use a little thinning, and I think the neck could use a bit of a thickening. Looks cool... it makes me consider how I might be able to use it. ;7
Later!
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i dont like the logo on the lightbringer, but otherwise, its prett good :yes:
that destroyer... mm... the model isnt TOO terrible, though i fear you might have been a little too overenthusiastic with the polygons. its not bad, really. i would release it as a 'typhon 2' or something... make it more heavily armed, and make it stronger, and faster, etc, etc, etc. then you might be able to get away with it if you dont use those purpley textures. but dont use teh scales either... it wont fit...
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I have a 23,000 poly typhon pof if anyone is interested. :D
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You're crazy, you know that?
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Mmm... meltdown... :D
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It makes the shape so... sexy. But it has issues, yet. I'll fix them, and make myself an overkill pof. :D
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Originally posted by Raa
It makes the shape so... sexy. But it has issues, yet. I'll fix them, and make myself an overkill pof. :D
I see renders and cutscenes in its future.
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There's already one render.................
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ERm....I just decided to make afew changes to the Lightbringer (missile launchers on the rear wings, adding either two smaller wings to the side of the cockpit or two misslie lauchers/guns, adding a tad more detail)... Not to mention I'll have to re-do the texture....
So it will delay it's release somewhat (by one day)
@StratComm - the typhon is a tricky one. It's shape is such that extra polys do little to no difference. I appreciate your input, but I find you statement, that a normal typhon looks more detailed than mine, somewhat insulting (espacially sine mine still doesn't have those wing things behind the bridge and below the hull and those struts connecting them), alltough I understand where it's coming from.
And my intentions was to make it like a heavy typhon.... I found it better than a Hatesputh...
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Originally posted by TrashMan
@StratComm - the typhon is a tricky one. It's shape is such that extra polys do little to no difference. I appreciate your input, but I find you statement, that a normal typhon looks more detailed than mine, somewhat insulting (espacially sine mine still doesn't have those wing things behind the bridge and below the hull and those struts connecting them), alltough I understand where it's coming from.
And my intentions was to make it like a heavy typhon.... I found it better than a Hatesputh...
Well if you make a Typhon and try to pass it as new/improved what do you expect ?
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the gunship needs more pollys
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Originally posted by TrashMan
@StratComm - the typhon is a tricky one. It's shape is such that extra polys do little to no difference. I appreciate your input, but I find you statement, that a normal typhon looks more detailed than mine, somewhat insulting (espacially sine mine still doesn't have those wing things behind the bridge and below the hull and those struts connecting them), alltough I understand where it's coming from.
And my intentions was to make it like a heavy typhon.... I found it better than a Hatesputh...
I really am not trying to pick your models apart or insult you Trashman, it's just that more polys does not necessarily mean more detail. Yes, they can make smoother curves (of which the Typhon never actually had that many) and they do allow for more accurate lighting. But putting them in willy-nilly just because you can isn't a good use of them, and quite frankly that's all I see when I look at that model. Yes, it is indeed lacking the struts and wings, and yes, I assumed that you would add them later. But that doesn't change the fact that the :v: pof has far fewer polygons including those details, while yours has more, no such details, and no real change anywhere else.
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could i have a copy of the 23,000 poly typhon pof
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Originally posted by Raa
I have a 23,000 poly typhon pof if anyone is interested. :D
Hi-poly Typhon? Where?
*drools in anticipation*
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actually, raa, i WOULD like to see that... :|
how could you get 23000 polys into something as fuuuugly as the typhon?
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Originally posted by Grimloq
actually, raa, i WOULD like to see that... :|
how could you get 23000 polys into something as fuuuugly as the typhon?
Go look. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,30026.0.html)
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D/L?
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...
im afraid im not really impressed with the model...
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Personally, about that "heavy typhon" --- I don't mind the idea of variant/refit models of the same ship. Hold onto that. I've always liked variety --- it could in fact be called a Typhon T2 or something...the result of taking really really old Typhons and instead of scrapping them, spending the time to refit them.
Either that, or they are the result of producing Typhons in the modern age using modern manufacturing and design changes. The next-generation of the same ship.
Don't ever ditch a modified version of any canon ship. Heck, I've been waiting for people to start doing this --- just taking normal FS2 ships and tweaking them, so that individual ships in campaigns are unique in their own ways.
Such as Orions that are still classified as a GTD Orion class but are slightly longer for a carrier profile, or a shorter, cheaper, and stubbier (and faster!) Deimos for really light recon. I always hated how in sci fi militaries, all ships of the same class all look the same. One would think there'd be SOME variety. The only exception I've ever seen in sci fi from my experience is the USS Miranda-class starship in Star Trek --- the Federation DESIGNED that ship to be a modular package you slap the components for the mission you want on and away you go... combat, add extra launchers, science, more sensor arrays.
Point is people, don't debunk "new" ships just because they are VERY close to a canon ship. That can be a strength in of itself!
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I couldn't decide, so I made two new versions of the Lightbringer. Completely ready (lod's, debris, paths, insignia). I allso re-made the Lancer Assault Carrier (100% complete...wait! NOOOOOOOOOOOO! I forgot nameplates! Oh, well.. it's a 5 minute fix...)
(http://img19.exs.cx/img19/8341/Light1.jpg)
(http://img19.exs.cx/img19/4170/Light2.jpg)
(http://img19.exs.cx/img19/3371/Lancer1.jpg)
(http://img19.exs.cx/img19/3829/Lancer2.jpg)
Now I'm re-doing the Military Outpost, making lods for that Terran jump gate, and trying to finish that Typhoon 2 model.
(http://img19.exs.cx/img19/8391/MOutpost.jpg)
Once it's all done, I'm gonna release them all..Or maby I won't wait that long...
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"subtle differences" my ass. That's a copy of the Typhoon. Might as well give up and call it a high-poly Typhoon.
And that fighter looks good, but the textures are god-aweful.
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It's spelled "Typhon".:p
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I always thought it was a Typhoon?
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Nope, Typhon. Not sure the origin of the word, but typhoon is a common mistake.
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It IS spelled Typhoon. With 2 "O"s.
Allthough the tech database spells Typhon, the word is really spelled typhoon. They made a mistake spelling it.
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Typhoon is not an Egyptian word. Note how the rest of the Vasudan ships are named, please.
It's Typhon. You see the damn name so many times I find it impossible to believe that is a mistake.
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Then pray tell us what Typhon means, in egyptian. Otherwise, i will always see it as a spelling typo.
EDIT:
After a quick earch, i found this:
"Typhon is the offspring of Gaia and Tartarus. His mate is Echidna and both were so fearful that when the gods saw them they changed into animals and fled in terror. Typhon's hundred, horrible heads touched the stars, venom dripped from his evil eyes, and lava and red-hot stones poured from his gaping mouths. Hissing like a hundred snakes and roaring like a hundred lions, he tore up whole mountains and threw them at the gods.
Zeus soon regained his courage and turned, and when the other gods saw him taking his stand, they came back to help him fight the monster. A terrible battle raged, and hardly a living creature was left on Earth. But Zeus was fated to win, and as Typhon tore up huge Mount Aetna to hurl at the gods, Zeus struck it with a hundred well-aimed thunderbolts and the mountain fell back, pinning Typhon underneath. There the monster lies to this very day, belching fire, lava and smoke through the top of the mountain.
Echidna, his hideous mate, escaped destruction. She cowered in a cave, protecting Typhon's offspring, and Zeus let them live as a challenge to future heroes. Echidna and Typhon's children are the Nemean Lion, Cerberus, Ladon, the Chimera, the Sphinx, and the Hydra. "
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/typhon.html (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/typhon.html)
Maybe they "confused" greek mythology wirth egyptian, uh?
:rolleyes:
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If the game says PVD Typhon, then it's named after Typhon and spelled Typhon. You dodged the point, but it came around and hit you in the ass.
Typhoon isn't Egyptian either.
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(http://img48.exs.cx/img48/6011/Typhoon2.th.jpg) (http://img48.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img48&image=Typhoon2.jpg)
Comparison between my Typhon 2 and hte original
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It's Typhon. Vasudans use Egyptian mythology. How you could mistake an Egyptian god with an act of nature is beyond me...
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
If the game says PVD Typhon, then it's named after Typhon and spelled Typhon. You dodged the point, but it came around and hit you in the ass.
Typhoon isn't Egyptian either.
Yeah, but neither is Typhon. So i guess the truth is anybody´s guess. Volition used egyptian names for all their ships, right? So why is this one greek?
The truth is Typhoon and Typhon are one and the same. The diference is that Typhoon is the english name for Typhon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon)
Typhon is also the father of hot dangerous winds (Greek "typhein" to smoke), which were extended by the Persians and Arabs to include the cyclonic storms of the Indian Ocean, hence English typhoon.
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IT'S TYPHON. FS NEVER CALLS IT "TYPHOON". THEREFORE IT IS "TYPHON". GET THE HELL OVER IT BEFORE I EVISCERATE YOU!:hopping::hopping:
*bellows in rage*
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Originally posted by Raa
It's Typhon. Vasudans use Egyptian mythology. How you could mistake an Egyptian god with an act of nature is beyond me...
It´s nice to see you are reading the posts. Or maybe you aren´t...
:p
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RAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!
*pulls out one of the huge guns from Hallfight and writes "GVD TYPHON" on Swamp_Thing in bullet holes*
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@Woolie Wool
Take a chill pill, boy.
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Maybe if you stop insisting that it's "Typhoon" and not "Typhon", I will. You make my blood boil by being so dense.
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Actually, it is of interest to note that the majority of Vasudan ships use the Ptolemic versions of the original words.
I'm going to guess proper spelling is debateable, too, since the closest entry to "Tauret" is "Taurt"
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Off topic guys....but fun:D
@Unknown Target- look at the comparison picture. You will see there are many differences.
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Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Echidna, his hideous mate, escaped destruction. She cowered in a cave, protecting Typhon's offspring, and Zeus let them live as a challenge to future heroes. Echidna and Typhon's children are the Nemean Lion, Cerberus, Ladon, the Chimera, the Sphinx, and the Hydra. "
Maybe they "confused" greek mythology wirth egyptian, uh?
:rolleyes:
Pretty obvious to me why they got confused. The Sphinx is pretty strongly associated with egypt even if the sphinx the greek legends refer to isn't the same one.
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@ trashman:
it does look slightly different, actually. hang on to it, make it a typhon variant or something... but dont make it a new class, and don't scrap it.
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I like it! See if TVWP might want it...Or keep it and make it a Typhon "Flagship Variant" (More bang for your buck! and it'd confuse the enemies)
*gets idea* It'd be cool if you did something like this to a Hatshepsut (or however you spell it...haven't played FS2 in a while...) Make it bulkier, more guns, more armour and call it a Flagship Variant...that'd be cool...
...er...ya...me ramblin'...It's a cool model!
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We don't need a beefed up Typhon in TVWP. The Original Typhon is supposed to be the pinnacle of Vasudan Military Technology. This would negate canon. Nope.
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Hmmm...*shrugs*
I still like my Flagship Variant Idea...meh...*goes off to write somemore*
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Typhon = Sex
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methinks the textures will lose the whole thing
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It doesn't. :p
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Oh so pretty... let me see a textured version pleeeeeeeease?
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,30026.0.html :p
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Noooo, not that... can we get a .POF? Or ingame screenie?
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It's a fatter typhon, with skinnier arms and no wing-wang.
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Originally posted by Corhellion
Or keep it and make it a Typhon "Flagship Variant" (More bang for your buck! and it'd confuse the enemies)
MG would have a use for such a beast. We've simply been using the old Typhon model but I see no harm in giving Admiral Natenalik a varient as we repeatedly describe his flagship as being subtly different from the others :)
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I have a normal Typhon model with severl more turrets (it's allready up for download), and I'm allmost done with this model (I'm currently in the process of making vasudan-like turrets for it).
I still havn't textured it, but if anyone is willing to give it a try, I'll send him the model.
Anyway, texturing the military Outpost is going slower than predicted (installations are a b**** to texture properly), so I will proly upload my last two models shortly...
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LIGHTBRINGER AND LANCER UPLOADED!!!!
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(http://premium1.uploadit.org/magatsu1//uck.JPG)
:ick:
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Ok...
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Pretty errors down there at the bow...
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Not errors. Modelview has a tendancy to make areas with alot of faces look like that from a distance. Try it on any ship when you zoom out. I assure you it's all correct. :nod:
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Well, then they're Modelview errors, so they're still errors. Just not errors in the model.
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Meh. It's not like I'm releasing this. So you can be as picky as you want. It's just for my own (mild) entertainment.
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hey, 3 days grace quote in your sig, i love the intro to that song
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Tis a good song. :) This one and 'Just Like You' :nod:
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Drown's me favorite, and Let You Down
but thats all rather off-topic
yesm the typhon is very... smoothified
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Originally posted by Gregster2k
Personally, about that "heavy typhon" --- I don't mind the idea of variant/refit models of the same ship. Hold onto that. I've always liked variety --- it could in fact be called a Typhon T2 or something...the result of taking really really old Typhons and instead of scrapping them, spending the time to refit them.
Either that, or they are the result of producing Typhons in the modern age using modern manufacturing and design changes. The next-generation of the same ship.
Don't ever ditch a modified version of any canon ship. Heck, I've been waiting for people to start doing this --- just taking normal FS2 ships and tweaking them, so that individual ships in campaigns are unique in their own ways.
Such as Orions that are still classified as a GTD Orion class but are slightly longer for a carrier profile, or a shorter, cheaper, and stubbier (and faster!) Deimos for really light recon. I always hated how in sci fi militaries, all ships of the same class all look the same. One would think there'd be SOME variety. The only exception I've ever seen in sci fi from my experience is the USS Miranda-class starship in Star Trek --- the Federation DESIGNED that ship to be a modular package you slap the components for the mission you want on and away you go... combat, add extra launchers, science, more sensor arrays.
Point is people, don't debunk "new" ships just because they are VERY close to a canon ship. That can be a strength in of itself!
Apparently NO ONE paid any attention to what I said. THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH TRASHMAN'S "TYPHON 2" LOOKING LIKE A NORMAL TYPHON. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
*whips out plasma gun and starts shooting everyone who keeps saying it looks too much like a normal Typhon* IT SHOULD DANGIT! CUZ ITS A *VARIANT!* DUH! WE *NEED* VARIANTS! LOTS OF EM! GGGRRRRRRRRR! *blood drips from fingers*
*calms down* ... release it please? :(
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I will... I will.....
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I remember seeing a neat-looking Typhon reskin in the Mentu/Hatshepsut style. Maybe the Typhon II (call it the Echidna IMO) can use those textures.
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Nah, if anything it should use textures as close to the original Typhon textures as possible. If the textures are changed drastically it will further detract from the fact that this is actually a different model, as it will remove one of the baseline methods of comparison.
And there is indeed no problem with a variant. The problem is with making a copy of a :v: ship and trying to pass it off as a new design. I'd actually like to see a carrier variant or something, just to spice the game up.
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First off: "Typhon Mark II", "Typhon II", "Typhon 2", and "Typhon-R".
These are too generic and different to be recognizable as a *variant*. "Typhon-R" fits with existing recognizable conventions such as the Prometheus-R(etrofit), but "retrofit" means to add stuff AFTER something is manufactured. TrashMan's Typhon variant needs a name that stands out and shows that it's your average Typhon, just different.
Besides, the variant needs to be named something other than "Typhon 2" as someone else might want to make a Typhon 2 that is a larger step ahead of the existing Typhon than what TrashMan has created...so...here's a nice catchy one I've got for you people.
"Typhon-Ra"
I like this a LOT. It sounds cool and Vasudan-y, with a nice ring to it too. Picture it in a command transmission: "The GVD Sphinx*, a Typhon-Ra class destroyer is headed..." --- DEFINITELY fits well, doesn't it? Would kinda sound silly for Command to SAY "Mark II", "2", or "R" in a transmission. Of the three, I recommend this one hands-down.
Oh, and I can't say this is a problem really, but Raa might want his smooooooth Original Typhon to be called Typhon-Ra or something too. So IF TrashMan uses "Typhon-Ra", Raa can call his smooth one "Typhon-Raa" LOL
:D
*GVD Sphinx is just the first example that came to mind. It means nothing.
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Since this heavy Typhoon version (maby I'll add another fihgterbay on it's belly) is not needed for my chapter one, I'm in no hurry to texture it. (That, and some people think I suck at texturing vasudan ships anyway so I better get some practice)
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Since this heavy Typhoon version (maby I'll add another fihgterbay on it's belly) is not needed for my chapter one, I'm in no hurry to texture it. (That, and some people think I suck at texturing vasudan ships anyway so I better get some practice)
My opinion is to not put the fighterbay on the belly, but to add another of the tube-style that you've already got on there, on either side, just ahead of the "arms". This would make it almost a carrier class, though it might require beefing up the forward hull a bit (which I suggested earlier I might add).
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CRAP.....soimething is terribly wrong with my FS2...
I just finished playing Solar Wars, and after I removed the Sola Wars files (and the Inferno VP) and put back my own tbl files (ships, weapons) I started FRED to continue working on my campaign..
chrash...
I started FS2_Open.... chrash...
then I tried several outher builds of both FS2 and FRED - all chrashed!
Looks like I'll have to re-install the thing..AAAAAAAAAAGH¨!
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Ahh the wonders of the -mod flag...
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Yep. There's no good reason why you should move files to play a mod these days unless for some strange reason you want to play something using retail.
Unfortunately though until FRED gets multiple mod support too you still have to move files in order to write one.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!
I can't install FS2 again!
When I click on the Sutip I get:
:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\AUTOEXEC.NT. The system file is not suitable for running MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows appilications.
On Win XP!?!?!?!?!
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Originally posted by karajorma
Yep. There's no good reason why you should move files to play a mod these days unless for some strange reason you want to play something using retail.
Unfortunately though until FRED gets multiple mod support too you still have to move files in order to write one.
Actually, my bro wants to try FS and I'd rather he try Retail so as to avoid the usual Open bugs.....:doubt:
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But usually by the time you get around to mods you're hooked enough to deal with the minor bugs in the official builds. If you're using a bleeding-edge build, well, it serves you right.
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It wasn't the bleeding edge build. The one I used it about...two months old (at least) and I've been constantly using that one...
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Did you delete the Mod content after selecting a new campaign in the campaign room? Or did you just delete it and try opening it up new? It may be looking for the old campaign file and, finding none, crashing.
I get crashes with some builds because I have less than the max amout of ships in the tbl file. Strange bugs.
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Station, release please.
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I'll have to format the Pc first Noise. It needed a cleanup anyway...It's been over a years from the last formatting.
*Damn, where's that stupid friend of mine with the Win XP CD???*
*24 hours pass*
*Grabs a flamethrower*