Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Mav on January 28, 2005, 02:40:19 am
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Just a dumb idea... but would it be possible to assign all those HUD elements as textures of some faces of that cockpit submodel thats now possible? (I mean, with that animated texture things I heard somewhere) :confused:
If so, we would esentially have complete 3D-cockpits, and only thing left for them would be a smooth rotation of the eyepoint (like in X / X2) when you want to look to the sides or back... This effect really did a great job for immersion in X / X2 :) .
So, would it be possible - one way or another?
(and yes, I know that you coders have a lot of other things to do - I didn't request to make it top priority, did I?)
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well i think one of the coders said ani based gauges *could* work. however i would imagine it would be an htl nightmare seeing as youd need an ani for each gauge (htl texture limits). or the engine could be set up to use dx9's render to texture feature.
an idea i had was to use some sort of projection system to essentially set up modeled blank 3d displays, and somehow project bounding coordinates onto the hud to define the 4 corners of the gauge, which would be scaled/skewed/whatever and sorta look 3d. but thats a long shot.
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In FS2 the HUD is most probably projected inside the helmet of the pilot (why else all the cables from the helm to the ship seen in FS1 intro).
So it would make sense, that the cockpit has buttons but no displays apart from the Radar.
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we currently don't have the low level code requiered to do this, though that doesn't mean it couldn't be done, but it would requier a _lot_ of work, though we will be doing most of that work anyway sooner or later.
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Dare we say it?
Padlock mode!
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Originally posted by Pnakotus
Dare we say it?
Padlock mode!
Uhm... what does that mean? :confused:
@-Norbert-:
Please also think about TC's - for WCS it might be a nice feature.
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Search is A-1 Super. This thread is necrotic. A lot of this was already discussed.
Padlock is when you view follows a locked enemy and you see the cocpit the help you orient the ship.
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Sorry for not using search. Had been so little here in the past I never got to use it. Will try to do so next time. Again, sorry.
And about that padlock - I wouldn't like it, but then most here's optional so I wouldn't have to use it (hopefully).
What I'd like would (as I stated above) be something like in X / X2 , where you really seem to move "your" head to look around.
And 3D cockpits (i.e. with HUD implemented; one way or another) would even be nice without this.
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I could've sworn aldo had a screenie of something like that happening (Looking around as if you were in the cockpit, rather than suffering a massive spasm when you press the padlock key.)
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Wasn't that a screenie from another game, just to illustrate the idea?
(btw. - would be great if not... :) )
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He did.
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http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/lostsouls/yay.jpg
http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/casofwar/lostsouls/free1.jpg
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These pics really are from FS? :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:
What build is this feature in?
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That was just the usual INS and the already exiting side views - though things recently did take off in this direction, not to mention that Aldo DID BUILD a cockpit.
AFAIK the short clipping seems to be problematic though, cutting off the model too soon making it hover in chunks.
Instead padlock merly being able to look around freely - as in Flashpoint or a Flightsim - will be a Godsend for several new gameplay elements.
-Independantly aimable gun mounts (like MW3)
-Newtonian battle
-Ships with high side/rear thrust readings.
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Pretty much any recent build.
Just add the "show ship" flag to a ship (works exceptionally well with Bobb's newest Hercules) and start a mission flying it. It should be pretty obvious if it's in the build or not once you start the mission.
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,30068.msg615441.html#msg615441
;7
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im having clipping problems as well, i kinda had to move the eyepoint a little lower to compensate but there is still some obvious clipping.
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/gallery/data/media/3/pfsix2.jpg)
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I'll have a build for you guys to test in a couple minutes.
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http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/cockpittest.zip
Try this build, it ought to help.
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yorokonde :)
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Mmh, well, well, seems the clipping is gone, indeed, but now the rendering is screwy, sadly:
(http://www.cobraworld.net/nico/screwy.jpg)
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*Uploads a new build*
This one uses the -clipdist command line parameter to set the minimum clipping distance, works the same way as fov; that builds value was 0.0, FS2 default is 1.0. The value should be as large as possible, but not so large that significant clipping occurs.
So; "fs2_open_ex.exe -clipdist 0.5" for example.
The maximum clipping distance is 1e10. I'm not sure how large the mission box is (I couldn't find the define with a quick search), but this value should basically be equal to it if it's any smaller.
Edit: On a side note, has anybody publically released a fighter with a cockpit with clipping issues?
Edit 2: Here's a good site that explains what the minimum clipping distance is, and how it should be set, and why, if you're interested: http://www.sjbaker.org/steve/omniv/love_your_z_buffer.html
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there's the ezechiel, but you have to move the eye point back a bit.
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Ahh, thanks. :)
BTW, that last build I posted wasn't setting the variable, redownload it if you want -clipdist to have an affect. ;)
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I kindda noticed :D
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yeay! It works!
Now it leads to a new problem:
it requires better cockpits, but that would have an impact on all the ships, not just the pilots one... bah, I guess that can be dealt with maps, w/o actually increasing the polycount.
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Updated the build once again...this one sets the clipping distance to a low min value (0.05) for the player ship, but leaves it at the normal min value for everything else.
This might cause slowdown, but hopefully not much.
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Originally posted by Nico
it requires better cockpits, but that would have an impact on all the ships, not just the pilots one... bah, I guess that can be dealt with maps, w/o actually increasing the polycount.
bobbau has invented a "detailbox code", meaning that you can a super high poly subobject and set the viewing distance for it, so you can set it to 1 for example, so only the player ships cockpit ill be displayed since you probably won't ever get that close to another ships cockpit model.
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i got it to work by setting the variable to 0.99
what happened to the zoom on the ship icons, the ship is rendered too large and cuts off parts of the ship.
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A question: Are ships visible if the viewpoint is inside of the ships geometry when the view cockpit thingy is activated?
I want to put a cokpit into a ship that doesn't have a glassy cocpit, just a standard one.
IIRC the ships geometry is invisible when viewed from the inside, but I'm not sure.
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do what i do and cheat, put an alpha chanel in the texture and make the interior another suobject. in theory you could get the ship, the cockpit, and the windows into one texture, if your skilled enough. just dont use any transparancy in the subobject, if you want to do a see through hud make it part of the ship.
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Nah, what I want to know is another thing:
I have a lot of moels that don't have a modeled cockpit with interior and all that - it's a normal model as evething else before people started putting in those cokpits.
I don't want to rework the model itself, but only insert a cockpit submodel.
But what I don't know is if the main model is visible to the layer if the viewpoint is inside massive model geometry. Because if it is like that, I don't have to bother with changing the models geometry and cut in a cockpit, put glasses in there and so on, when I just can put a totally separate cockpit as submodel without actually changing the ship's model itself? Is that understandable?
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No: there's "normals" on polygons, if you look at them from the inside, they won't be rendered. If you were to do the inside view on, say, the old hercules model, you'd see a bunch of polys flying around you, the ones that for some reason have enough angles so they'd face the camera. If you add the cockpit in there, you'll have the cockpit rendering fine, and that mess of weird isolated polys around it.
Honestly, adding a cockpit is not that difficult anyway ( well with max, at least ), if you're up to reconvert a ship, you might as well spend some time doing the job right :)
About bob's detailbox, how does it work?
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It lets you put in superdetailed subsystems.
You assign a minimum distance - the model will be only rendered if the camera is within that distance.
This was originally made for WCS' hangars - check out their forum.
BTW you can have non-targetable subsystems too - welcome to true damage modelling.
Ahh...here you're are:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,28072.0.html
Bobb's a Godsend, I don't know why the pope hasn't sainted him yet.
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Seems the best clipdist is 0.25, that way it renders everything save for the pilot head ( you obviously don't want that :p ).
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Edit: On a side note, has anybody publically released a fighter with a cockpit with clipping issues?
I'll send you one (not for release, but with eyepoint set & cockpit setup) if you contact me ASAP (before the end of the 30th)
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I don't think I need one anymore - unless you have any models that still clip with this build?
http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/cockpittest.zip
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my clipping issues are resolved so im cool.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I don't think I need one anymore - unless you have any models that still clip with this build?
http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/cockpittest.zip
Don't know, won't know until sometime next month.
Probably be ok, though.
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How glitchy is this cockpit build? I'm still modelling the Viper from BSG, so if cockpits and possible padlocking views are being implemented, should I go ahead and start modeling the Viper's cockpit with Starbuck inside? (perhaps topless)
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i hope your refering to the new starbuck :D
and padlock mode as well as hat switch pan are very good ideas :D
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It shouldn't be very glitchy. The problem is that the near draw distance was set to a distance of 1.0 - the new builds set the near draw distance to 0.05 for cockpit view, then switch back to normal for everything else.
Padlock view is already implemented, but mapped to the joystick knob thingy by default. You can change that to keypresses in the Misc control options screen.
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I did manage to try it after all; seems to work perfectly.
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well, i guess my cockpit idea is out. :sigh:
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Sorry Cobra, but the future beckons...
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Don't trash it yet - a good cockpit design, even a scetch can be worth a lot if you put good thought into it.
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maybe...
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
It shouldn't be very glitchy. The problem is that the near draw distance was set to a distance of 1.0 - the new builds set the near draw distance to 0.05 for cockpit view, then switch back to normal for everything else.
Padlock view is already implemented, but mapped to the joystick knob thingy by default. You can change that to keypresses in the Misc control options screen.
It's not glitchy at all, you just need to think the pilot model cleverly, which can be quite a pain actually ( mine wasn't planed that way, and I have to admit it shows, so you'll have the pilot still cut by the close clipping, can't help it unless I redo the pilots head ).
What you have in Freespace is not padlock, it's free view :) ( holding the "0" numpad key and moving around ). Padlock centers the currently targeted ship and tracks it. That is one of those features I think are a must have.
edit: actually, there's one little glitch, but it's because of the way my cockpit is done: the HUD uses a transparent map, and beams and explosions won't show through it. It's not really annoying, but it's worth mentioning I think.
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Oh, yeah, that sounds pretty easy to do.
As I read your last post I started to wonder... :drevil: would it be possible to make the pilot part of the damage LOD, so he'd drift around in space after the ship got blown up? :drevil:
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hey, coolmon, i tried that build. WHERE IS THE FRAKKIN' COCKPIT?
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Oh, yeah, that sounds pretty easy to do.
As I read your last post I started to wonder... :drevil: would it be possible to make the pilot part of the damage LOD, so he'd drift around in space after the ship got blown up? :drevil:
dead pilots? But I've already done that on one of my ships, don't remember which one tho, but one of the debris is a dead pilot :p
edit: I did that on the ezechiel I think.
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Cobra: make sure that "show ship" is specified in the flags list in ships.tbl so that the cockpit is turned on.
Note that there are only a few ships with modelled cockpits, the rest you'll probably get general weirdness with.
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oh... include a readme why don't ya :p
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what about ppm support? you could probibly use bob's weapon model code, and render the pilot at the location of the eyepoint (thus would need to be the object center of the pilot model). this allows you to easily replace a terran pilot with a vasudan one. also in multiplayer people could make custom ppms sorta like in quake 2/3.
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PPM? :confused:
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Pentium Processor Machine? :D
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'personal player models' would be my guess.
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We don't have true freelook yet - you should be able to look around and look behind your back through your shoulder.
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The problem is, personal models are pretty much mutually exclusive with a true free-look. If you can look down without restriction, it becomes all to easy to look through your own neck. Ideally free-look would be restricted to the cockpit glass (roughly) so that it wouldn't be possible to actually look at the pilot model or the seat.
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Uhm...most sensible designs would put a lot of gagues and panels around the pilot, so the model should be built so the legs look nice from the inside too - or cover them up somehow.
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its plug-in player model, bob's the closest so i guess he gets the cookie (just dont ask what its made with).
optimally the player model woundt be rendered, which is how they got away with it in cfs3. see if you place the eye point in front of the players model's eyes, you will be able to see everything correctly when looking in the forward 180 degree field. if you look behind that all you will see is your pilot's ugly face. perhaps set it up to use different eyepoints for different views. pofs seem to support multiple eye points so no model format changes are neccisary. id like to see some fancyer view options anyway, padlock view, view panning, turret view, missile view, and so on.
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Originally posted by Flaser
We don't have true freelook yet - you should be able to look around and look behind your back through your shoulder.
One could argue that a real fighter pilot can't look behind him :p. I'm think having the free look limited to only an angle is not a bad thing, in fact, coz, for exemple with padlock, imagine following a dragon, he goes around you, above you, behind you, and, in the end, you don't know where your ship is facing anymore. Happened to me a lot in EF2000 :p
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that really debends on the cockpit design. the lightning in cfs2/3 has awesome rear visibility :D
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yeah, but no matter what, I don't think the pilot can turn around on his seat, with the belt fastened and all :p
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in WWII you could, modern flight gear is rather restrictive i think, though in a space craft i dont see any reason to overly restrict the pilot. of course pilots tend to have good periferal vision, so youd only have to turn your head 45-90 degrees or so to see whats behnd you.
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Not really. I have this video of some F-15s doing some live-fire missile practice and mock dogfighting. Pilot didn't seem to have any trouble looking behind him at all.
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Checking your six is essential for aerial awerness and in turn survival - they don't turn their heads all the way back, but just as in a car you steer your nech roughly 45-55 degrees and use your eyeballs to look sideways.
BTW - getting lost - that's why I recomended a setable fov for zoomign with a greater field of view it is easier to keep your orientation in the cockpit. Beside that cockpits have scanlines on the top - or you could incorporate ones into your design - to help the pilot orient.
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mmh... amways thouhgt the best way would be a dim reflection of the cockpit's inside above the pilot, in fact :p
Anyway, all in all, you'll never be able to look back, coze you'll have the seat in your way, and you can't look above your shoulder like in real life.
Bah, anyway, for now, I wanna see the independent cockpit pof and the padlock view done :p
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Ever looked at the FS2 persona ani's?
You'll see that FS2 pilot's can't see behind them, as the canopy ends far above their head.
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:nod: you have a point. the cool thing that could be done is when you look up, left, and right you see the end of the canopy.
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i've added the flags, selected the build, done everything, BUT I AM STILL GETTING NO COCKPIT!
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are you flying a fighter with a cockpit built into the ship model?
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... i don't know where to find one.
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lol, find bobs HTL herc and try with that.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Ever looked at the FS2 persona ani's?
You'll see that FS2 pilot's can't see behind them, as the canopy ends far above their head.
The anis have been done with the apollo cockpit. There's obviously some ships ( actually, all the terran FS ships, as far as I can tell ) won't let you look behid you because of the way they're designed. In a ship like the seth, you should be able to look behind you.
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Originally posted by Cobra
:nod: you have a point. the cool thing that could be done is when you look up, left, and right you see the end of the canopy.
Play with Nico's Ezechiel, you'll find if you look behind you all you see is the wall. :p
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The ezechiel viewxpoint is not set for cockpit view at all anyway, and will never be, coz there's a couple screwy polys in the cockpit, and it just looks bad ( and, of course, it's right in front, you just can't miss them :p ). See my point about having separate pofs being easier to make and more efficient? ;)
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i never even heard of the ezechiel. *prepares to get the crap beaten out of him*
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*beats crap out of Cobra*
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Originally posted by Deepblue
lol, find bobs HTL herc and try with that.
you mean this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,28922.0.html) one?
[EDIT] Stop it! I bruise easily! :D
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Then you should keep some KJ at hand.
*mad laughter
Anyway - Vasudan ships do offer a lot better look spring.
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Originally posted by Cobra
i never even heard of the ezechiel. *prepares to get the crap beaten out of him*
See that option marked search at the top of the page? It works really well with ship names. Especially something as unique as ezechiel.
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.... shut up. That's why I never searched. I didn't even know the ezechiel existed until now.
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Originally posted by Flaser
Anyway - Vasudan ships do offer a lot better look spring.
If I had even the feintest clue as to what a Vasudan cocpit would look like, I'd try to put one in the Thoth... :drevil:
And Cobra. Stop telling others to shut up. Learn to help yourself, or GTFO.
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...
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every vasudan cockpit has at least 2 fish tanks :D
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i just wanna see a cockpit with fuzzy dice. :D
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that would be so awesome. how about an FM Radio/CD player? :D
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Originally posted by Raa
If I had even the feintest clue as to what a Vasudan cocpit would look like, I'd try to put one in the Thoth... :drevil:
And Cobra. Stop telling others to shut up. Learn to help yourself, or GTFO.
The Thoth is acually not that good in that regard - the Horus, the Seth, even the Anubis are.
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So what do I need to do in order to implement this on my Viper? Which build is this, and what heirarchy order?
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
So what do I need to do in order to implement this on my Viper? Which build is this, and what heirarchy order?
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,28797.0.html
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Originally posted by Flaser
The Thoth is acually not that good in that regard - the Horus, the Seth, even the Anubis are.
Not really, It'd be a hell of alot easier to make one for the Thoth. And I wouldn't need to worry about where the cocpit ends and meets up with the rest of the ship.
Either way, I'd still do the thoth because it's one of my favourites.
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horus, perseus, ares, and erinyes get my votes.
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Originally posted by Raa
Not really, It'd be a hell of alot easier to make one for the Thoth. And I wouldn't need to worry about where the cocpit ends and meets up with the rest of the ship.
Either way, I'd still do the thoth because it's one of my favourites.
As much as I like the Toth, but wouldn't there be problems with looking left and right (or any other direction else than directly forward) ?:confused:
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you have a good point there. the thoth has no side windows or nothing, just a little glass window directly in front.
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Maybe put "monitors" on either side of and behind the pilot that display what it looks like if you "could" see through the hull of your own fighter. ;)
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nice.
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Any way we can get soem TrackIR Support? Maybe even Vector Support? Cause DAMN that would be awesome!
www.naturalpoint.com for info.
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Also, how do I add that flag? Sorry, I'm still REALLY new here.
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To add the flags you need to edit the tables. If you check the VPView tutorial in my FAQ you'll find a load of information on how to get started.
Be warned that Cockpits are a bleeding edge feature and as such you shouldn't be surprised if you get glitches etc with some ships.
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Well, seeing as I'm still a noob reguarding this stuff, I'll wait till theres a full borne release with cockpits :). I can't wait to tell ya :).
Hopefully we can get some TrackIR Support with Vector Support added. That would be SO awesome.
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Cockpits are known to work improperly in OGL, but the most recent builds should have them working correctly in D3D.
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D3D works well on my PC, and OGL can't run properly for whatever reason... that's why i want a D3D version of FRED 3.6.5.